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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
195
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Posted - 2015.05.21 07:26:55 -
[391] - Quote
Is there a link to whatever these Social Corps are about?
The opening post seems a little garbled and the usual bickering of forum PvP that follows doesn't illuminate.
Thanks.
~
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Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
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Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
2769
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Posted - 2015.05.21 07:45:21 -
[392] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Is there a link to whatever these Social Corps are about?
The opening post seems a little garbled and the usual bickering of forum PvP that follows doesn't illuminate.
Thanks.
It came up in the end of day 1 in the winter summit of last year Page 7 on the pdf http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/Meetings/summit/CSM9-WS-D1.pdf
that help?
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1733
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Posted - 2015.05.21 07:52:51 -
[393] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Is there a link to whatever these Social Corps are about?
The opening post seems a little garbled and the usual bickering of forum PvP that follows doesn't illuminate.
Thanks. I don't have a link, but the idea is to provide some of the communication tools that are available to corps to non-corporation entities.
Currently if I run an NPSI group, have only two tools at my disposal: chat channel and mailing list.
The idea is to be able to create a group with a chat channel, mailing list, group calendar, group fittings, and roles for people to be able to manage these. Bookmarks would be a grey area that I personally don't think should be added, but I assume are on the table. The issue with the current system is that theres no way to give someone the ability to change the MOTD on a channel without giving the ability to ban people, or vice versa. There's other things like this with operators kicking each other, no hierarchical settings, ect.
These groups would not be corporations, would not be able to have in space assets, and would not be able to be wardecced. The bickering is over this last part. Many see the fact that they are not able to be war decced as an advantage that would cause them to discourage players from leaving npc corps as they would use these societies instead. These are legitimate concerns, especially with the increased difficulty of attacking another player in high sec after the recent concord changes.
Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
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Sykaotic
Renegade Armada.
43
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Posted - 2015.05.21 08:22:52 -
[394] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:There are two proposals with social groups, which don't majorly overlap.
Corp lite: It's like an npc corp, but with your own name and logo. For those people who would otherwise stay in NPC corps.
Cross Corp Social Groups: For gatherings of players, like the various NPSI communities, where people want a way to organise, without requiring people to leave their current corporation. So you can have fleet adverts, shared fittings, bulletins and so on, restricted to that group. Also, searchable, to improve discoverability which can be a real problem in Eve. (also handy for groupings within a corporation/alliance, like MinLuv)
tbh, I'm in favor of both. How often have you heard of a group of newbies, being 'griefed out of the game', when all they wanted was a name of their own. I'd like Corp lite to be able to be upgraded to full corporations, but not the opposite.
This is the 1st csm post I have ever read that has any logic.
But this will prol be a Eve LFR type deal, with bad results as its done 1/2 arsed.
Maybe take some time with the people who actually play the game i.e. stop gathering your data from people with political agendas who hardly ever log in the game and trolls trying to destroy your game. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2246
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Posted - 2015.05.21 14:29:54 -
[395] - Quote
Jayne Fillon wrote:
To answer your question in no uncertain terms, NO, I do not support the concept of social groups in Eve being wardecced.
BINGO.
Just as I said, social corporations are just an attempt by people to have their cake and eat it too -- more risk-free candy for carebears in hisec, and a stealth removal of existing wardec mechanics. That is not cool...that is NOT EvE.
Quote: I also think that wardecs are the cancer of Eve, so that's entirely unsurprising. Even if these social groups were being designed with the sole intention of allowing carebears to evade wardecs, you'd still be extremely hard pressed to convince me that it was a bad idea. Eve is not a PvP game, but a Sandbox game with PvP aspects. Community is another aspect within the Sandbox, and your misguided attempts to restrict positive player interaction will be the death of this game.
Hopefully the only game that dies is the perverted version of Eve that you're convinced should exist.
Wow, it only took two pages to uncover the duplicitous ethos of those advocating 'social corps' as a way to avoid or kill wardec mechanics. Next time though, if you could just say 'your right Feyd, the social corp concept is really about nerfing or avoiding wars' from the outset, we could have had a more intelligent conversation from the beginning, instead of devolving into name calling.
NOW, that we have clearly unmasked the intent of social corporations, lets continue...
Is giving additional nerfs to hisec carebears warranted, while a) so many existing war dodging mechanisms (and exploits) exist and b) over past years CCP has already implemented a pogrom of hisec nerfs?
I say NO MORE. Wardec mechanics are one of the few (last) remaining non-consensual conflict drivers remaining in hisec, and I am yet to hear a good reason why in light of all preceeding nerfs, we need to kill that too.
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Solecist Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
25125
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Posted - 2015.05.21 14:40:31 -
[396] - Quote
SUICIDE ALL THE GROUPS !
TO HELL WITH YA !
Brüste.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2410
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Posted - 2015.05.21 14:56:35 -
[397] - Quote
Feyd posts are embarrassing to read.
"Hey guys I'm going to undermine my own point by writing like an idiot"
If you could drop the excessively melodramatic prose and meaningless capitalization maybe you'd be on the path to not just being laughed at. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2247
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Posted - 2015.05.21 15:00:23 -
[398] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:There are two proposals with social groups, which don't majorly overlap.
Corp lite: It's like an npc corp, but with your own name and logo. For those people who would otherwise stay in NPC corps.
Cross Corp Social Groups: For gatherings of players, like the various NPSI communities, where people want a way to organise, without requiring people to leave their current corporation. So you can have fleet adverts, shared fittings, bulletins and so on, restricted to that group. Also, searchable, to improve discoverability which can be a real problem in Eve. (also handy for groupings within a corporation/alliance, like MinLuv)
tbh, I'm in favor of both. How often have you heard of a group of newbies, being 'griefed out of the game', when all they wanted was a name of their own. I'd like Corp lite to be able to be upgraded to full corporations, but not the opposite. The slimy aspect to this is complete lack of clear disclosure that people are ultimately getting corp mechanics without being subsequently susceptible to war decs, with ambiguous claims of newbies being mass griefed out of the game for good measure.
I would argue many stay in the game, because they are surprised in their mission pockets and dragged out of PVE drudgery, by someone invading their mission and giving them real player content they wouldn't otherwise pursue... We can all quote crap assertions out of our arses Steve.
I would again argue that with the long list of nerfs already done, and how bloody easy it is to avoid war consequences today, no further nerfs to content creation in hisec should be pursued. To the contrary, non-consensual conflict drivers need a swing of the pendulum the other way now towards buffs.
In closing, let us weigh the spirit of these non-wardeccable social corporation abominations, with some words from CCP Falcon when 'ganking' (which I am sure is next on Steve and Mike Asariah's lists of things that 'must be removed to save the poor carebears from quitting..) was last discussed...
CCP Falcon -- "Okay, so what follows is entirely my personal opinion.
It's not a case of not "catering to the tearfilled entitled", it's a case of us staying true to the core of what EVE was built on.
Some of the people complaining in this thread have valid points about the fact that they don't feel safe. Simple fact of the matter is, that you're not suppose to feel safe in New Eden.
Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. It's a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent.
While every other MMO starts off with an intro that tells you you're going to be the savior of the realm, holds your hand, protects you, nurtures your development and ultimately guides you to your destiny as a hero along with several other million players who've had the exact same experience, EVE assaults you from the second you begin to play after you create a character, spitting you out into a universe that under the surface, is so complex that it's enough to make your head explode.
The entire design is based around being harsh, vicious, relentless, hostile and cold. It's about action and reaction, and the story that unfolds as you experience these two things.
True, we're working hard to lower the bar of entry so that more players can enjoy EVE and can get into the game. Our NPE (New Player Experience) is challenging, and we're trying to improve it to better prepare rookies for what lies out there, but when you start to play eve, you'll always start out as the little fish in the big pond.
The only way to grow is to voraciously consume what's around you, and its your choice whether that happens to be New Eden's abundant natural resources, or the other people who're also fighting their way to the top.
EVE is a playing experience like no other, where every action or reaction resonates through a single universe and is felt by players from all corners of the word. There are no shards here, no mirror universes, no instances and very few rules. If you stumble across something valuable, then chances are someone else already knows where you are, or is working their way toward you and you better be prepared to fight for what you've discovered.
EVE will test you from the outset, from the very second you undock and glimpse the stars, and will take pleasure from sorting those who can survive from those who'd rather curl up and perish.
EVE will let you fight until you collapse, then let you struggle to your feet, exhausted from the effort. Then when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel it'll kick you flat on your ass in the mud again and ask you why you deserve to be standing. It'll test you against every other individual playing at some point or another, and it'll ask for answers.
Give it an answer and maybe it'll let you up again, long enough to gather your thoughts. After a few more steps you're on the ground again and it's asking more questions.
EVE is designed to be harsh, it's designed to be challenging, and it's designed to be so deep and complex that it should fascinate and terrify you at the same time.
Corporation, Alliances and coalitions of tens of thousands have risen and fallen on these basic principles, and every one of those thousands of people has their own unique story to tell about how it affected them and what they experienced.
That's the beauty of EVE. Action and reaction. Emergence.
Welcome to the most frightening virtual playground you'll ever experience." -- CCP Falcon
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1602
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Posted - 2015.05.21 15:00:36 -
[399] - Quote
I propose Anti Social Corpse in response. Organizations that permit no more than a single member. Chatting in public channels shall be forbidden. Touching a member of the opposite sex shall be forbidden (unless they are dead. It's okay if they are dead. The dead are down with anything) Fleet functions shall be disabled. Local shall be muted. Upon entering FW complexes all other players on grid shall be immediately emergency warped to the nearest black hole, and no others shall be allowed to warp to said complex. Anyone attempting to do so shall be given a single warning, and upon disregarding said warning will be summarily biomassed on the spot for intruding upon the sacred aloneness of the Anti Social Corpse.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Solecist Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
25136
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Posted - 2015.05.21 15:12:31 -
[400] - Quote
All members of social corps should be easily visible as such ... ... so we can kick them out of the game for being unable to defend themselves.
Not a single new player has ever been griefed out of the game.
They all ran either by choice or by ignorance.
And putting "griefing" into quotation marks doesn't help hiding the bullshit.
Crappy CEOs of newplayercorps are the ones to blame. People don't get decced for no reason. Most of them are bigmouthing, whining assholes who deserve only to be hunted and removed.
You want to limit combat even more ... ... so we will force it down your throats.
Brüste.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
405
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Posted - 2015.05.21 16:20:28 -
[401] - Quote
Somebody is really obsessed by wardecs. Feyd, leave HighSec - problem solved!
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
3090
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Posted - 2015.05.21 16:26:21 -
[402] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Somebody is really obsessed by wardecs. Feyd, leave HighSec - problem solved! Ignorance is Strength, ey ?
Freedom is Slavery
ISD Ezwal > And then Ezwal comes along and takes all that space(s) away.
<===== I wished my bra was green as well - 1024x1024
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Mag's
the united
19449
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Posted - 2015.05.21 16:28:52 -
[403] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Somebody is really obsessed by wardecs. Feyd, leave HighSec - problem solved! Ignorance is Strength, ey ? Yeah, it was rather an odd statement to make.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
3093
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Posted - 2015.05.21 16:39:36 -
[404] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Eve Solecist wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Somebody is really obsessed by wardecs. Feyd, leave HighSec - problem solved! Ignorance is Strength, ey ? Yeah, it was rather an odd statement to make. Well, for that I killed a pod carrying 54 Million ISK in implants.
And next time I'll tell the victim who paid me to do it ...........
If you think mass griefing in EVE ONLINE is a thing already ...
... then you better pray we don't actually start doing it .................
<===== I wished my bra was green as well - 1024x1024
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8615
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Posted - 2015.05.21 16:54:28 -
[405] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Feyd posts are embarrassing to read.
"Hey guys I'm going to undermine my own point by writing like an idiot"
If you could drop the excessively melodramatic prose and meaningless capitalization maybe you'd be on the path to not just being laughed at.
Many people are shilling something no one really cares about. Be it for ego, click-throughs or to sell something. As far as EVE goes the main things are podcasts, blogs, streams and 'news' sites. There are hundreds of people competing for your attention to view their pointless drivel.
You don't get clicks unless you have a shtick. Anonymous people have no shame, so excessively melodramatic and meaningless capitalization or posting like a fool, or pointlessly arguing over every little thing, or dropping straw man arguments like confetti at a wedding are accepted means of getting attention. Truth, facts, solid writing and keen insight have no place in their world. Only clicks.
Welcome to the internet.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Solecist Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
25162
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Posted - 2015.05.21 19:10:13 -
[406] - Quote
Harkonnen is true to his values. And he's barely noticable around here anyway.
It might be a mistake, because effective placement can lead to ... something.
What he lacks is me. haha. We actually agree on many things ... ... though I admit the deeper meta of the SRP thread was beyond me.
I have no idea why I am being ignored by him more than I should get.
I never got a blog entry for my doings. People even suggested me.
Well... Solstice, actually.
I miss Solstice.
*sighs*
Brüste.
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Sointu Luonnotar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
142
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Posted - 2015.05.22 06:48:00 -
[407] - Quote
I too miss the Solstice that didn't whine about everything. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5788
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Posted - 2015.05.22 07:50:54 -
[408] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Of course you can do many things in Eve but, this bears repeating: The essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is full time PvP in a sandbox environment.Everything you do is in competition with other players. That is the core concept. Eve is a PvP game through and through. It is not a "sandbox game with PvP aspects". Everything short of ship-spinning has you in direct, or indirect competition with other players. This is by design. How is it, that after 12 years and CCP directly spelling this out several times in the New Pilot FAQ among many other places, people still trot out the line that Eve isn't a PvP game because you can do other things in it than just shoot each other's space ships? Eve was designed as a dark, single-shard PvP experience and that is still at the core of the game. The problem comes when people use quotes like that as an excuse for blindly stating that the game needs to be purely focussed around shooting things, which happens a lot. When a lot of people say "EVE is a PvP game" they mean "Eve is a game based around shooting things", and they erroneously throw these quotes out as support.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:I am nothing but flexible. If there were a constraint on social corps or groups that you had to already be a member of a full corporation, then this is ok, nothing wrong with people who chip-in and accept corp membership risk to associate with other players in different groups.
What mustn't happen however is this corp-lite/group concept used to give NPC corp members the ability to group together under corp constructs or benefits, without exposure to risk of wardec...that is not EvE. First off, NPC corps would likely be included. This is because they are a valid option of playstyle even if you get your panties in a bunch every time someone joins one.
Secondly, if by some twist of fate they were excluded from joining social corps, you would simply find everyone who wants to be in a social corp forming up 1 man corps and recycling that 1 man corp whenever they are wardecced, so it'd be pointless to do that anyway.
At the end of the day wardecs as they a exists are a broken mechanic which allows weak groups of risk averse PvPers to disable highsec for given groups. I see no reason why social corps as they have been proposed should be forced to live under the same broken mechanic. All that would do is make membership of these groups off limits for highsec players which is much the problem with the normal corporation system now.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Solecist Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
25210
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Posted - 2015.05.22 08:58:09 -
[409] - Quote
We should grief all these weaklings out of the game.
That way at least for one time all their lies and bullshit will become true.
And haunt them.
Brüste.
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Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
196
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Posted - 2015.05.22 11:18:54 -
[410] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:Is there a link to whatever these Social Corps are about?
The opening post seems a little garbled and the usual bickering of forum PvP that follows doesn't illuminate.
Thanks. It came up in the end of day 1 in the winter summit of last year Page 7 on the pdf http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/Meetings/summit/CSM9-WS-D1.pdf that help? m
Page 7 is a picture of a cat, and is as helpful as all pictures of cats are.
Here is the attendant message on the page.
"THIS CONTENT OF THIS SESSION IS BEING HELD UNDER NDA, AS A DEV BLOG IS COMING SOON CONTAINING ALL CONTENT DISCUSSED. INSTEAD, HERE IS AN AMUSING PICTURE OF A CAT:"
~
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Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
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Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
371
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Posted - 2015.05.22 12:36:23 -
[411] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Somebody is really obsessed by wardecs. Feyd, leave HighSec - problem solved!
Please think before you post. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
371
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Posted - 2015.05.22 13:04:29 -
[412] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Looking forward to a new thread on this though I know it will be a rehash of this one.
1) I do not like the term corp-lite . . . that is not what this is about (or shouldn't be. Social corp is a misnomer and the biggest re herring.
that is why I prefer the term 'societies'. and the tools being discussed are manefestations of that, better ways to communicate and arrange things with people who are not in your corp but you still want to occasionally get together with. Ask me for examples and I will point to bombers bar, spectre fleet, redemption road. These are not people hiding from a fight. Quiite the opposite. I would also include communities like Warp to me, Valhalla Project, and other incursion groups. I would include special interest groups like The Best of Us or Calling for Reps FCORD and Arek'Jaaalan.
wanting to be in touch with other players should not be at the mercy of either outside tools or the mediocre ones currently in existence.
2) I am not trying to replace corps but add another layer of social aspects ON TOP of the existing structures
3) Crown is queen, Jayne, you meant Tiara
4) Read the minutes or else you are arguing from a position of stubborn and stupid. I know I know, welcome to the forums.
m
You only address groups that are not hiding for a fight ... but ... how about the players that do want to hide from a fight? Does the currect proposal being discussed between CCP and CSM include discussion about how to avoid that a certain category of players mis-use this new mechanic by being able to avoid being wardecced and yet still have all the benefits of being in a corporation?
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5790
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Posted - 2015.05.22 13:25:44 -
[413] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:You only address groups that are not hiding for a fight ... but ... how about the players that do want to hide from a fight? Does the currect proposal being discussed between CCP and CSM include discussion about how to avoid that a certain category of players mis-use this new mechanic by being able to avoid being wardecced and yet still have all the benefits of being in a corporation? The only benefits they gain from social corporations are ones that exists in ad-hoc ways already, with mailing lists, chat channels, etc. The way I've seen this put forward as been a way to group up in addition to your main corporation so you can be a part of interest groups, so when your corp isn't doing something you can always find content. You'd rather what? That these socials corps weren't implemented and players still continued to have to limp together NPSI groups while the players you hate still avoid being shot?
It seems to me that people like yourself simply have a hatred of the idea of a small group of people (not even the main target groups for these changes, as the main targets would be NPSI players - who in general PvP) benefiting from game improvements without offering themselves up on a platter to griefer groups. Other people play this game in other ways including avoiding being shot. They are valid players just like anyone else and shouldn't be forced to play like you just because you don't like them. Get the **** over it.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
371
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Posted - 2015.05.22 13:36:45 -
[414] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:[quote=Nicolai Serkanner] It seems to me that people like yourself simply have a hatred of the idea of a small group of people (not even the main target groups for these changes, as the main targets would be NPSI players - who in general PvP) benefiting from game improvements without offering themselves up on a platter to griefer groups. Other people play this game in other ways including avoiding being shot. They are valid players just like anyone else and shouldn't be forced to play like you just because you don't like them. Get the **** over it.
What? I think you assume I am somebody else. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2254
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Posted - 2015.05.22 14:12:43 -
[415] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: First off, NPC corps would likely be included. This is because they are a valid option of playstyle even if you get your panties in a bunch every time someone joins one.
I have no problem with wars being made more meaningful and driving more content creation by making NPC corps war deccable. Especially when this is an existing exploit used by pansies to shed wars (i.e. dropping from corp to NPC corp to avoid the war).
Quote:Secondly, if by some twist of fate they were excluded from joining social corps, you would simply find everyone who wants to be in a social corp forming up 1 man corps and recycling that 1 man corp whenever they are wardecced, so it'd be pointless to do that anyway.
Have wars follow a toon whenever they leave a corp under wardec, for 1 week or normal war expiry, even if they return to an NPC corp. Done
Quote:At the end of the day wardecs as they a exists are a broken mechanic which allows weak groups of risk averse PvPers to disable highsec for given groups. I see no reason why social corps as they have been proposed should be forced to live under the same broken mechanic. All that would do is make membership of these groups off limits for highsec players which is much the problem with the normal corporation system now.
At the end of the day wars are a big boon to content creation in hisec, and many players (in the merc community and out) use this mechanic to great effect to drive player driven content. I see no reason why the answer to fixing existing exploits in war mechanics is to create more exploits like 'social corps' that are un-deccable, rather than closing existing exploits. Unless that is your agenda is to WoW-ify hisec and make it a risk-free Disneyland theme-park.
Let's cut the crap Lucas. Carebears and pansies will never be happy until safeties are locked at GREEN upon entering hisec, and the wardec mechanic rendered completely meaningless. I simply reject that as contrary to EvE's core of 'single shard' non-consensual player driven conflict. You may be on the other side of the fence and support making hisec into Disneyland because 'meh hisec, who cares...'...that is your right...
I save my strongest venom however for people pretending social corporations is anything but just another way to neuter hisec war mechanics. Reminds me of liberals or socialists in RL, getting elected on selling 'tax cuts', only to turn around and implement sweeping tax increases...
Say what you will about me, but I am at least up front and honest in my support of EvE's non-consensual HTFU heritage without duplicity. I pretend nothing. Can't say that about these snake-oil salesmen selling 'social corporations' as anything other than a way to render wardec mechanics less effective.
Duplicitous bastards.
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Elinarien
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2015.05.22 14:19:27 -
[416] - Quote
Simple answer for social corps would be to make them align to an empire and as such they are valid targets for any FW corps. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2931
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Posted - 2015.05.22 14:28:12 -
[417] - Quote
Elinarien wrote:Simple answer for social corps would be to make them align to an empire and as such they are valid targets for any FW corps.
.... owwwwwwwwk ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
3110
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Posted - 2015.05.22 14:35:59 -
[418] - Quote
Elinarien wrote:Simple answer for social corps would be to make them align to an empire and as such they are valid targets for any FW corps. The simple answer is the inevitable.
CCP is making them targets for suicide gankers.
And then they will cry even more.
And they will call for a nerf.
And then C.C.P. ... ... is S.O.L.
If you think mass griefing in EVE ONLINE is a thing already ...
... then you better pray we don't actually start doing it .................
Click! Read! Win!!!
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
633
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Posted - 2015.05.22 14:38:50 -
[419] - Quote
personally i think if you engage in npsi pvp and you are also a wardeccer you should be able to be engaged anywhere, none of this fighting when its convenient for you sh!t
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5794
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Posted - 2015.05.22 15:18:13 -
[420] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:I have no problem with wars being made more meaningful and driving more content creation by making NPC corps war deccable. Especially when this is an existing exploit used by pansies to shed wars (i.e. dropping from corp to NPC corp to avoid the war). That wouldn't drive content, it would simply drive players out of the game who have no interested in getting shot by the players who want to do nothng but shoot other players. And it's not an exploit, it's completely allowed. As far as I can tell it's never been an exploit, since nobody can provide a link to any official mention of dropping corp to get around wardecs being an exploit.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Have wars follow a toon whenever they leave a corp under wardec, for 1 week or normal war expiry, even if they return to an NPC corp. Done Again, all that does is punish people who don't want to pew pew. An it would simply result in the same situation we have now, where people simply don't join corps because it's simpler to just stay in NPC corps. Undoubtedly you'd then be in favour of more restriction on NPC corps and punishments for remaining in them. Once again it all boils down to you wanting everyone to be forced into pew pew, even though that's now all that EVE is about.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:At the end of the day wars are a big boon to content creation in hisec, and many players (in the merc community and out) use this mechanic to great effect to drive player driven content. I see no reason why the answer to fixing existing exploits in war mechanics is to create more exploits like 'social corps' that are un-deccable, rather than closing existing exploits. Unless that is your agenda is to WoW-ify hisec and make it a risk-free Disneyland theme-park. The problem you seem to repeatedly run into here is this who "exploit" misunderstanding. It's not an exploit, it's the way it's supposed to be. You're not supposed to be able to force someone into either having to fight or stop playing. If you choose a target that is small enough to reform, that you're own fault for picking a weak target. Social corps aren't even a way to get around this, it's a way to merge chat rooms, mailing lists and shared fittings into a single place so groups who rely on ad-hoc tools to create these groups (primarily PvP groups) can do so with more ease and thus create content.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Let's cut the crap Lucas. Carebears and pansies will never be happy until safeties are locked at GREEN upon entering hisec, and the wardec mechanic rendered completely meaningless. I simply reject that as contrary to EvE's core of 'single shard' non-consensual player driven conflict. You may be on the other side of the fence and support making hisec into Disneyland because 'meh hisec, who cares...'...that is your right... I don't doubt that's the case for some players, but then on the exact opposite side, players like you won't be happy until you can force every player to die by your hand or quit. Those of us in a more balanced position can see the benefit of promoting both "pew pew" PvP content and "non pew" content. Things like these social corps are a massive boost to NPSI groups who are primarily pew pew focused and offer a way for people who might not want to make the full leap into a player run corp to experience PvP. I get that you think it's a bad thing because you think it's goign to create swathes of risk averse PvE players, but NEWSFLASH: those players already exist. You act like people don't already use NPC corps, solo corps and dec evasion to evade PvP.
And you seem to confuse yourself over what EVE core is. You keep saying conflict, but I get the impression you literally mean "pew pew" when you are saying that. That's not the core of EVE. In EVE there's a variety of playstyles, and not all of them involve shooting other players. Conflict is far more than just that.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:I save my strongest venom however for people pretending social corporations is anything but just another way to neuter hisec war mechanics. How does it neuter them? What stops people setting up a chat channel and a mailing list and sharing fittings that way to run their little industrial corps right now? Nothing. The problem with that is that when you have fast paced PvP groups such as spectre fleet, it quickly becomes unmanageable. You honestly want to fight against a mechanic which will help boost casual PvP because risk averse players will remain as risk averse?
Amusingly I run multiple actual corp for my high sec industry alts and still never worry about wardecs because the characters never undock. I'll gain nothing from social corps, since all my guys are in fact in chat channels, and social corps would lack the key features I would use, namely shared wallets and offices. Honestly, I think if you sat down and though rationally about it you'd realise that most non-PvP highsec entities really wouldn't benefit much from these glorified chat channels. That might be asking a bit much though.
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