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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2703
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Posted - 2015.02.03 10:42:35 -
[211] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:if you want people to join player corps, and fight for them rather than folding and reforming them they need to actually offer something people want/need to instil some kind of ownership that would encourage them to fight for what they have. There are a lot of ideas for this, but they'd all be wasted breath, really. Because the carebears talk about how nice it would be to give corporations true meaning with the face on the front of their heads, but the face on the back talks about how everyone would quit if there's even a shred of profitability difference between being in an NPC corporation and a player-made one.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
694
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Posted - 2015.02.03 11:01:34 -
[212] - Quote
Ultimately, this is the unfortunate downside of CCP's (otherwise completely excellent, don't get me wrong) new faster release schedule - they have to peacemeal changes which really should be parcelled as part of a larger package.
We all know Wardecs are far from in a good place, and ideally a change like this (lower-grade, unwardeccable corps) should come as part of a raft of changes that fix some of the wonky edges to the whole wardec system. As it stands, this (and the removal of highsec in-corp aggression) is a straight-up hit to Highsec aggression, and the players who get their fun participating in that gameplay. Without compensatory adjustments to give a little back in return (maybe fix wardec evasion, or since corp-lites can't have POSes, just make it impossible for full corps to use corp switching tricks to save their POSes from a Wardec), it can only attract opposition from that part of the game, because all that is happening is they are losing out. This change, as part of a raft of Wardec-related changes might very well be not-a-bad-thing, but standing alone, it can only look like a bad thing to those getting negatively impacted.
Not to tangent, that was what caused a lot of opposition to the Power Projection changes - not so much whether they were a bad thing (in my opinion they were a very good thing, and even as a cap and supercap pilot, I'm glad it's been done), but that they really should have come alongside sov improvements, such that it was a change in how the game is played, and not a straight nerf to certain playstyles. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1892
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Posted - 2015.02.03 11:45:13 -
[213] - Quote
If multiple changes happen, it means no valid data can be drawn from any results since you have no idea which change has caused the data shift. Meaning that if they make shifts one at a time they can actually see how effective that particular change is at achieving their desired result, which means that CCP can then actually reverse bad changes. Under your idea of 'do it all at once' it means not only would you have to wait two years for any Sov changes, none of them would be tested individually meaning CCP would have no clue what caused an undesirable result meaning the only options would be a complete rollback and another two to four years wait for any new Sov changes, or the entire system remaining. By spreading changes out in bits, they can reverse a single aspect that proves to have poor unintended effects much easier without holding the entire package to ransom or delaying the process by years. |
Stil Harkonnen
Chest Bumpers Oh My Bad
0
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Posted - 2015.02.03 14:41:44 -
[214] - Quote
But Nevyn, look at what Aralyn actually typed. It makes sense. You say that releasing changes slowly is better so CCP can see what changes are good or bad. BUT. There are changes that are dependent on other changes. Changes that don't make sense, or don't have any context without other changes.
So by your standards, this social Corp thing is a bad idea and should be reversed. No progress. The end. No changes to high sec wardecs and combat.
However, if the social Corp idea was released along with a change to wardecs, it would be a good, productive change, and CCP would be able to see how the new system worked in its intended state.
Releasing half of an idea is never going to be productive.
Also, which part do you release first? If you release social corps first, you are shitting on the people who like high sec combat. Is CCP going to reimburse them the several months of game time where their profession is effectively removed? If you release the changes to wardec evasion, is CCP going to reimburse all the high sec corps who are getting camped in station and griefed? Maybe you would like to do that reimbursement. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1141
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Posted - 2015.02.04 13:10:06 -
[215] - Quote
wut
........
*scratches head*
What, is this supposed to be like Reddit but in the game?
meesa confuzzled
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2015.02.04 14:15:35 -
[216] - Quote
Shameless plug for my alternative idea, add a new type of corp membership, rather than new types of corps:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5457869
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3676
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Posted - 2015.02.04 23:36:46 -
[217] - Quote
LOL highsec.
I'll never understand why anyone that wants to PVP would deliberately put up with annoying and half-baked wardec/crimewatch mechanics.
Seriously guys, break free, get out of that absurd region and leave it to the carebears and the gankers.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2728
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Posted - 2015.02.05 04:20:04 -
[218] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:LOL highsec.
I'll never understand why anyone that wants to PVP would deliberately put up with annoying and half-baked wardec/crimewatch mechanics.
Seriously guys, break free, get out of that absurd region and leave it to the carebears and the gankers. What's the matter? Getting bored over not having anyone but insta-logging ratting bots to shoot in your blue donut?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1032
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Posted - 2015.02.05 05:53:49 -
[219] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Hateful illiterates like OP fail to recognise that a section of the playerbase just freeze up when faced with player aggression. Their temperament will never be able to thrive under endless violence. Why are they playing this game, then? "I get scared easily and have a heart condition, but oh boy, I just can't wait to go to that haunted house attraction I've seen some advertisements for!" Chopper Rollins wrote: Empire decs are for interrupting null logistics, you want non-pansy action? Get out of hisec, sweety. Question: Why should I get out of high-sec, if the pvp it offers is both extremely satisfying, and the most profitable? Lady Rift wrote:So every one makes one man corps. and just remakes them when they get wardeced. All that with a 0% tax Sounds like an issue that should be addressed.
There's SO much more to this game than pew-pew. The threat of surprise pvp makes every other activity exciting. Ever tried ratting or exploring on Sisi? PVP is the spice, not the meal. Mr Brack Region up there seems all twisted about trying to force players into PVP. Their game is avoiding it and he can't cope. I've flown with BL and they have a few pilots who would like to warp EvE into four noob systems that are permacamped 24/7. A conveyor belt of easy kills forever. Naturally they are irrelevant to game designers running a business. The players who can't cope with PVP enjoy the harvest and building play styles. I've talked one guy who makes t2 everything into coming on roams, but generally he logs on to build and logistic stuff around. He deals with enough threats, the toxic bear-haters in these threads just sound weird. Everyone should leave hisec, as soon as they can. Null will improve, gaining texture and traffic. Empire will be the shallow stagnant rookie pond it was always meant to be. Come on, people, it's not rocket surgery!
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2729
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Posted - 2015.02.05 06:44:21 -
[220] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:There's SO much more to this game than pew-pew. The threat of surprise pvp makes every other activity exciting. Ever tried ratting or exploring on Sisi? PVP is the spice, not the meal. Why would I do that when I can play the actual game on the actual server?
Chopper Rollins wrote:Everyone should leave hisec, as soon as they can. Null will improve, gaining texture and traffic. Empire will be the shallow stagnant rookie pond it was always meant to be. Come on, people, it's not rocket surgery! Maybe when high-sec incursions and level 4 missions are removed, and the only financial opportunities in high-sec are relegated to trading and transportation, your words will have more meaning. For now, I see no reason to go to null to shoot the T2-fit Drake with my T2-fit Hurricane and lose five times as much money as I make from pvp, when I can shoot an officer-fit CNR with my faction-fit Vindicator, or gank freighters with billions of crap inside, and have a profit margin in the five-figure-percentage range.
I understand that you 0.0 guys are starving for targets, and want to trick anyone and everyone into stopping by so you have something to do. Believe me, I was like that myself for a little while many years ago. Or at least I thought I was, until I realized that there's more to the game than treating it like an over-glorified MOBA.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3677
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Posted - 2015.02.05 07:24:27 -
[221] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:LOL highsec.
I'll never understand why anyone that wants to PVP would deliberately put up with annoying and half-baked wardec/crimewatch mechanics.
Seriously guys, break free, get out of that absurd region and leave it to the carebears and the gankers. What's the matter? Getting bored over not having anyone but insta-logging ratting bots to shoot in your blue donut? You misunderstand. LOL highsec because of half-baked game mechanics.
Null, WH: shoot whoever you want. Sweet and simple.
Low: shoot whoever you want, limited npc intervention (gate & station guns) slightly facilitating travel (gates) and basing (stations). Sweet and simple.
Highsec ganking: shoot whoever you want until CONCORD arrives. Sweet and simple.
Highsec awoxing: shoot your corpmates. Sweet and simple, and hilarious, but a bit weird.
Highsec suspect baiting/dueling: two players can shoot at eachother, but also switch ships, but also maybe have neutral logi, etc. Complicated and messy.
Highsec 'wars': same mess as above, but on corp/alliance scale, plus fees to pay, 24h to think about it, corps can be easily closed/reopened, etc. A clusterfuck.
TL;DR: by all means, live and have fun wherever you want, but don't complain if CCP prefers to give players more social tools (e.g. Social Corps et similia) over maintaining flawed mechanics (wardecs) or bizarre mechanics (unsanctioned corp-on-corp violence).
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2730
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Posted - 2015.02.05 09:32:00 -
[222] - Quote
Some of us don't like games that are "sweet and simple." But actually, those words sum up the attitude of the average 0.0 player quite well.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1893
|
Posted - 2015.02.05 09:41:22 -
[223] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote: Everyone should leave hisec, as soon as they can. Null will improve, gaining texture and traffic. Empire will be the shallow stagnant rookie pond it was always meant to be. Come on, people, it's not rocket surgery!
Except for the 'small' issue that you are wrong. High Sec was designed as another important part of the game. Null Sec is not 'the end game' of EVE. Nor is High Sec, WH space or Low Sec. All are part of an interconnected ecosystem, all are equally important, and all are equally viable 'end game' experiences with different styles of playing.
As for the current state of Null Sec, I suggest the rise of wide spread NBSI is what has lead to the current dearth of people in Null. Providence sure has plenty of texture and traffic to it after all. |
Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1035
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Posted - 2015.02.05 11:22:40 -
[224] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:..Maybe when high-sec incursions and level 4 missions are removed, and the only financial opportunities in high-sec are relegated to trading and transportation, your words will have more meaning. For now, I see no reason to go to null to shoot the T2-fit Drake with my T2-fit Hurricane and lose five times as much money as I make from pvp, when I can shoot an officer-fit CNR with my faction-fit Vindicator, or gank freighters with billions of crap inside, and have a profit margin in the five-figure-percentage range.
I understand that you 0.0 guys are starving for targets, and want to trick anyone and everyone into stopping by so you have something to do. Believe me, I was like that myself for a little while many years ago. Or at least I thought I was, until I realized that there's more to the game than treating it like an over-glorified MOBA.
You know, there are incursions and missions in null, right? In fact, every kind of PVE for isk making? My point about sisi was that without pvp (or the threat of it) every activity in eve is dull as dishwater. Staying in hisec is a playstyle that starves itself. You seem upset about null, too bad.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11659
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Posted - 2015.02.05 11:31:43 -
[225] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: As for the current state of Null Sec, I suggest the rise of wide spread NBSI is what has lead to the current dearth of people in Null. Providence sure has plenty of texture and traffic to it after all.
The reason nullsec is largely empty is because there is no incentive to live there.
You can make as much isk or better in highsec in complete safety, without having to go through the hassle of nullsec and lowsec.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1893
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Posted - 2015.02.05 12:23:04 -
[226] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: You can make as much isk or better in highsec in complete safety, without having to go through the hassle of nullsec and lowsec.
Except for every time this argument has been made it's been utterly dis-proven. The hassle of Null Sec may not be worth the extra income from Null Sec for most people, but there certainly is extra income. It's just a question of if people are prepared to take the extra risk for that income. None of which of course, has anything to do with Social Corps, who by their very nature won't be in a good place to access that kind of income, but will provide some of those social connections that help people stay in EVE. I do agree with the idea mentioned that they should be able to do a one way only transition into a real corp also so that if they reach the point the social group feels they want to step up a notch, they can, but they can't simply drop back casually afterwards to avoid consequences.
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Yzari thebold
Vulcan Industries Absolution Alliance
3
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Posted - 2015.02.05 12:23:33 -
[227] - Quote
I heavily endorse corp lite, book it. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11659
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Posted - 2015.02.05 12:28:05 -
[228] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: Except for every time this argument has been made it's been utterly dis-proven.
By who? Infinity Ziona The Effervescent Liar?
Last time we had this discussion, highsec's individual income streams were both more secure and more potent.
Quote: I do agree with the idea mentioned that they should be able to do a one way only transition into a real corp also so that if they reach the point the social group feels they want to step up a notch, they can, but they can't simply drop back casually afterwards to avoid consequences.
I think attempting to game the corp creation system to avoid consequences should warrant being temp banned at least.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2738
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Posted - 2015.02.05 13:19:31 -
[229] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:You know, there are incursions and missions in null, right? In fact, every kind of PVE for isk making? And how is that relevant to what I said? My reason for staying in high-sec for my pvp is that it has about 70% of the game's population concentrated in 15% of the game's total systems. Why would I go to null to hunt a profitable mission-running unicorn, when I can merely undock into two dozen of them at any time where I'm located now?
Lucas Kell wrote:You seem upset about null, too bad. Yes, I'm pretty upset about how boring and inconsequential it is, and how the only pvp to be found in it on a reliable basis amounts to the EVE version of WoW battlegrounds.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
82
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Posted - 2015.02.05 13:26:53 -
[230] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:You know, there are incursions and missions in null, right? In fact, every kind of PVE for isk making? And how is that relevant to what I said? My reason for staying in high-sec for my pvp is that it has about 70% of the game's population concentrated in 15% of the game's total systems. Why would I go to null to hunt a profitable mission-running unicorn, when I can merely undock into two dozen of them at any time where I'm located now?
Yes, the effort of managing risk to not be basically suicide in 0.0 missions versus the reward, does not even get close to balancing.
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1141
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Posted - 2015.02.05 13:35:55 -
[231] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I think attempting to game the corp creation system to avoid consequences should warrant being temp banned at least.
CCP used consider war dec evasion ( specifically, folding/dropping your corp to get out of it) an exploit and a bannable offense.
Not anymore, unfortunately.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1143
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Posted - 2015.02.05 13:39:00 -
[232] - Quote
Oh, and the only guys I have ever heard of that bothered to do Incursions in null was Rooks and Kings. I think they even made a video about it.
Otherwise, I've never seen any null bears do Incursions, mainly because they are afraid of getting hotdropped.
As for missions in null....heeheehee.....that's funny. Make me laugh some more.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1035
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Posted - 2015.02.05 15:16:34 -
[233] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:...
As for missions in null....heeheehee.....that's funny. Make me laugh some more.
I did L2s in Utopia area in a Thrasher when i was 3 months into the game. Solo. Much more hassle, risk and fun. I did higher level missions for Serpentis in the same area where DNS lived, got loads of booster bpcs and some pretty good implants. It wrecked hisec for me. Same thing but it's like watching TV with the sound muted. The Godfathers probably still do Serp missions in Fountain and they have pilots who always have sets of Serpentis implants on contracts in Jita. I've seen em ninja PVEing combat sites for the faction cruiser and BS hull bpcs. While not close to Infinity Ziona levels of dank iskage, it's profitable and fun.
Destiny: your stated reason for staying in hisec is because everybody is huddled there scratching up dem crumbs. Corps need to bum rush null, scrabble up all the ore, gas, moon goo and ratting they can. They will probably get richer and will definitely have more fun. I support anything that relegates highsec to it's proper status. Rookie pond and quiet zone. Don't sneer at the Blue Donut if you're not willing to go be a red spot in it.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2740
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Posted - 2015.02.05 15:22:23 -
[234] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Destiny: your stated reason for staying in hisec is because everybody is huddled there scratching up dem crumbs. Corps need to bum rush null, scrabble up all the ore, gas, moon goo and ratting they can. They will probably get richer and will definitely have more fun. I support anything that relegates highsec to it's proper status. Rookie pond and quiet zone. Don't sneer at the Blue Donut if you're not willing to go be a red spot in it. Right, I agree, but the issue is that they're not bum-rushing null, and as such, I'm also avoiding null because it's much less profitable for me. It's not me you need to convince, but them.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Shailagh
WTB Somalians
70
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Posted - 2015.02.05 15:23:25 -
[235] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I think attempting to game the corp creation system to avoid consequences should warrant being temp banned at least. CCP used consider war dec evasion ( specifically, folding/dropping your corp to get out of it) an exploit and a bannable offense. Not anymore, unfortunately.
I remember in 2010/2011 this was the case. Yet another Save the Bears Nerf |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1895
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Posted - 2015.02.05 22:46:08 -
[236] - Quote
Or you know, it was another emergent game play like Hyperdunking. You can't have it both ways. If gankers emergent game play is legit use of niche game mechanics, then so is their targets game play legit use of niche game mechanics. If it's an exploit, then all those ganker techniques are also exploits. Good for goose, good for gander and all that jazz. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11676
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Posted - 2015.02.05 23:54:15 -
[237] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Or you know, it was another emergent game play like Hyperdunking.
Hyperdunking does not avoid consequences, that's why it's not an exploit despite how hard carebears cried about it.
Dec dodging is used to avoid consequenecs, specifically to bypass the surrender mechanic. It is a textbook exploit.
Quote: You can't have it both ways.
That's my line. You can't have the benefits of a player corp, specifically the evasion of NPC corp taxes, and have the perfect safety of an NPC corp by using the dec dodge exploit.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Kaelynne Rose
WTB Somalians
21
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Posted - 2015.02.06 00:53:57 -
[238] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Or you know, it was another emergent game play like Hyperdunking.
Hyperdunking does not avoid consequences, that's why it's not an exploit despite how hard carebears cried about it. Dec dodging is used to avoid consequenecs, specifically to bypass the surrender mechanic. It is a textbook exploit. Quote: You can't have it both ways.
That's my line. You can't have the benefits of a player corp, specifically the evasion of NPC corp taxes, and have the perfect safety of an NPC corp by using the dec dodge exploit.
Tru dat. Just a few years ago if your bear corp got decced and you folded corp and immediately reopened it a couple times you would get temp banned. Was considered an exploit. Then precious bears kept getting in trouble for it and kept crying and next thing you know.... ccp says its no longer an exploit lol
Right around the time James 315 his holiness started using same then legal tactic to **** off the bears lol |
Vector Symian
0 Fear
249
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Posted - 2015.02.06 03:20:39 -
[239] - Quote
Um social corp!?....Scope Corp definitely!
Scope Corp - Best corp |
Shailagh
WTB Somalians
72
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Posted - 2015.02.06 05:06:51 -
[240] - Quote
Vector Symian wrote:Um social corp!?....Scope Corp definitely! Scope Corp - Best corp
Scopies are my favorite npc corp and also the best to scam. Seem to be a ton of people always coming in and out so lots of idiot marks. |
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