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Jenshae Chiroptera
1178
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Posted - 2015.03.31 13:27:45 -
[301] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:... then do it right. .... Ssssshhhhh! I have a strategy that to people I trust, I mention only one tactic that is a part of it and they go.
I won't lay it out. I won't do it because it is game breaking. It is worse than the pipe bomb tactic. So, here I am on the forums trying to push for a few changes here and there and hoping people remain sub-average until a few changes go through.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
99
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Posted - 2015.03.31 14:48:08 -
[302] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: NPC corps + High Sec + veterans = too little risk for too much reward.
Last week you said you were too busy to answer, so maybe you have time now so I'll ask again. What specific activities are veteran NPC corp players doing that you think brings in too much reward?
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1178
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Posted - 2015.03.31 21:27:10 -
[303] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: NPC corps + High Sec + veterans = too little risk for too much reward.
Last week you said you were too busy to answer, so maybe you have time now so I'll ask again. What specific activities are veteran NPC corp players doing that you think brings in too much reward? Pretty much everything if they are any good at EVE; from Incursions paying way too much, through to multi-boxing miners, freighters with multiple alts, crushing missions really quickly or even ganking and freighter bumping, all while being protected from war declarations.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming The Bastion
72
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Posted - 2015.04.01 05:17:15 -
[304] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: ~words~
Are you paying my subscription? No? Then you have exactly ZERO power to dictate to me or anyone else what corp they are in or where and how they play.
Get over yourself. |
Arthur Aihaken
Narada
4267
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Posted - 2015.04.01 06:05:24 -
[305] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Pretty much everything if they are any good at EVE; from Incursions paying way too much, through to multi-boxing miners, freighters with multiple alts, crushing missions really quickly or even ganking and freighter bumping, all while being protected from war declarations. Please show us on the ship where the (incursion|mining|freighter|mission|bump|gank) touched you. Eliminating NPC corporations won't change anything. If you have more than one player account, you have two player-owned corporations you can jump between. If you want to encourage more PvP interaction in high-sec there are other ways to go about it. Reforming the bounty system would be one way.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Mag's
the united
19210
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Posted - 2015.04.01 07:05:02 -
[306] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Eli Stan wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: NPC corps + High Sec + veterans = too little risk for too much reward.
Last week you said you were too busy to answer, so maybe you have time now so I'll ask again. What specific activities are veteran NPC corp players doing that you think brings in too much reward? Pretty much everything if they are any good at EVE; from Incursions paying way too much, through to multi-boxing miners, freighters with multiple alts, crushing missions really quickly or even ganking and freighter bumping, all while being protected from war declarations.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Dots wrote:Red Frog uses NPC Corp alts for hauling, so I'm not sure wardeccing really applies to them.
Edit: Grr, autocorrect Spies and suicide gankers do apply
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1189
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Posted - 2015.04.01 17:14:05 -
[307] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Reforming the bounty system would be one way. I do have previous suggestions say that I think it should work like courier contracts. " X hull type(s) for Y ISK" it could even be a case function, example:
"Killing Arthur has a total of 5 billion in this contract
Marauder class 500M T3 cruiser 250M T2 cruiser 75M Battle cruiser 20M "
Then you can issue them and they can be accepted by corps / alliances, you an make multiple contracts or have contracts with multiple kills.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
541
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Posted - 2015.04.01 17:43:16 -
[308] - Quote
Urziel99 wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: ~words~ Are you paying my subscription? No? Then you have exactly ZERO power to dictate to me or anyone else what corp they are in or where and how they play. Get over yourself. Everyone has the right to contest your gameplay if they feel it negatively impacts the game.
There are all our dominion
Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1195
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Posted - 2015.04.02 00:54:03 -
[309] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:Everyone has the right to contest your gameplay if they feel it negatively impacts the game. High lighted to OP. Thank you.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
218
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Posted - 2015.04.02 01:28:17 -
[310] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:Everyone has the right to contest your gameplay if they feel it negatively impacts the game. No one has the right to contest what I do or do not do in the game as along as what I am doing is within the rules. You do have the right to play within those rules and try to enforce your ideas but that is all.
You have the right to come here suggest / lobby for CCP to make changes. just as we have the right to attempt to counter your arguments.
Only CCP has the right to dictate to players what they can and cannot do within the game.
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Arthur Aihaken
Narada
4278
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Posted - 2015.04.02 01:39:55 -
[311] - Quote
The biggest problem with WarDecs is that they're grossly unfair. You get a large corporation (or alliance) essentially brutalizing a smaller one. Add neutral logistics to the fray and you end up with a slaughter. This isn't 'gud fights' - it's legalized ganking.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1196
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:37:32 -
[312] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:The biggest problem with WarDecs is that they're grossly unfair. You get a large corporation (or alliance) essentially brutalizing a smaller one. Add neutral logistics to the fray and you end up with a slaughter. This isn't 'gud fights' - it's legalized ganking. Always been in the OP that I am aware of this: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:There are some related problems:
- War dec mechanics
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Arthur Aihaken
Narada
4278
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Posted - 2015.04.02 05:10:11 -
[313] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Always been in the OP that I am aware of this. With respect to one of the ideas in your OP, what determines the value of a high-sec system? Typically the lower the rating the more ore, NPC rats and missions are worth. I do agree that the AI could stand an overhaul, if only to better prepare players for the eventuality of PvP. This means a substantial mission overhaul with varying degrees of difficulty, ship configuration and AI for rats, substantially smaller numbers and vulnerable to all forms of EW. And then we still have the WarDec issues.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming The Bastion
76
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Posted - 2015.04.02 08:10:03 -
[314] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:Urziel99 wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: ~words~ Are you paying my subscription? No? Then you have exactly ZERO power to dictate to me or anyone else what corp they are in or where and how they play. Get over yourself. Everyone has the right to contest your gameplay if they feel it negatively impacts the game.
Contest =/= demand, which is exactly what the OP is doing. Last time I checked, this was a sandbox where the pilots are free to play by their own rules, in their own way. For some, like OP and CODE it means taking a crap on someone else's cheerios. For some it means using any and all means available to avoid said defecation.
Don't like it? Too Bad. My sub, my pilots, my accounts.
So pardon me while I express my right to tell you to go play in traffic. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1202
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:03:39 -
[315] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Always been in the OP that I am aware of this. With respect to one of the ideas in your OP, what determines the value of a high-sec system? Typically the lower the rating the more ore, NPC rats and missions are worth. I do agree that the AI could stand an overhaul, if only to better prepare players for the eventuality of PvP. This means a substantial mission overhaul with varying degrees of difficulty, ship configuration and AI for rats, substantially smaller numbers and vulnerable to all forms of EW. And then we still have the WarDec issues. Similar to SOV ungrades only it works for one system where your corp HQ offices are based.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Quintessen
Messengers of Judah
489
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:37:40 -
[316] - Quote
I'm probably in the small minority, but I have generally had a bad experience in most of the corps I've been in. I'm not a huge fan of a lot of the corp's dudebro attitudes. I know it's better to be in a non-NPC corp even with wardecs and would like to be.
What I would like to see is the ability for corpmates to rate the corp they are in or were in. Only non-biomassed characters would count. That would at least limit some of the abuse by alts in a rating system. It wouldn't be a perfect system, but it might be better than nothing.
Basically I'm looking for something like Glassdoor or Yelp. Then I could at least get a sense of the corp through more than their advertisement and their, theoretically, charismatic recruiting officer. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1202
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:44:58 -
[317] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:... I'm not a huge fan of a lot of the corp's dudebro attitudes. ... Nothing to do with a solution but you will find the large alliances and coalitions have social sub-groups. The gate camping "dude-bros" and the quieter ratters and industrialists.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
98
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Posted - 2015.04.02 20:25:44 -
[318] - Quote
This is still a 'make everyone play the way I want them to play' thread?
But it doesn't take into consideration whether 'forcing everyone to play my way' would close the playground. If 'too many people' are doing things 'not the right way', and choosing not to play your way when they have a choice, the forcing you demand would only force them out the door, not into your playstyle, and the fact that there are 'too many' also means that it's likely their subscriptions are what's keeping EVE afloat financially.
I haven't seen corporation / nullsec members stomping out of EVE in droves because 'I saw a high sec NPC person flying the other day and it was disgusting to see them not playing MY way.' But I don't have the numbers to prove that the declining subs -aren't- solely because of that either. It seems unlikely though. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1202
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Posted - 2015.04.03 00:32:00 -
[319] - Quote
The suggestion is to try help CCP get more in line with the orginal vision / core of EVE.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
221
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Posted - 2015.04.03 01:40:18 -
[320] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:The suggestion is to try help CCP get more in line with the orginal vision / core of EVE. To survive in a highly competitive would of online gaming companies MUST be willing to adapt and adjust to what ALL of their players want and to what the "competition" is doing. To try and stay 100% true to a thought from more than a decade ago is to go down a path of utter futility. The original vision of EvE is and always should be a guide, or an anchor of sorts if you will but it should not and cannot be THE thing that determines where this game goes and how it morphs to meet the ever changing needs of it's players and the competition for our gaming time and money.
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Mag's
the united
19231
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Posted - 2015.04.03 14:14:13 -
[321] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:This is still a 'make everyone play the way I want them to play' thread? Yes, basically. Eve is a sandbox, but the OP wants to determine the size of that box and what we should do in it.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:The suggestion is to try help CCP get more in line with the orginal vision / core of EVE. As your idea wasn't ever a part of that and does no such thing, I will flat out call you a liar.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
110
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Posted - 2015.04.03 16:39:20 -
[322] - Quote
Ooph. I know not all corps are like this, and it's gratifying to see a lot of negativity directed at EE for it, but this is a prime example of the sort of stuff many of us who have our main character in an NPC corp want to avoid.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/30s0qb/join_easily_excited_2day/
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Arthur Aihaken
Narada
4292
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Posted - 2015.04.03 16:43:06 -
[323] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Ooph. I know not all corps are like this, and it's gratifying to see a lot of negativity directed at EE for it, but this is a prime example of the sort of stuff many of us who have our main character in an NPC corp want to avoid. This is typical of more than a handful of corporations. Most hold killboards sacred.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1215
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Posted - 2015.04.04 23:05:27 -
[324] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:The suggestion is to try help CCP get more in line with the orginal vision / core of EVE. To survive in a highly competitive would of online gaming companies MUST be willing to adapt and adjust to what ALL of their players want and to what the "competition" is doing. To try and stay 100% true to a thought from more than a decade ago is to go down a path of utter futility. The original vision of EvE is and always should be a guide, or an anchor of sorts if you will but it should not and cannot be THE thing that determines where this game goes and how it morphs to meet the ever changing needs of it's players and the competition for our gaming time and money. EVE has been steady because it doesn't cleave to the methods of other games. That it is a niche and not a WoW clone is why it has a solid subscriber base.
The more it stands out for that the better it will do.
(I am not saying turf them out of the NPC Corps (as more than a joke) without fixing some other things. The key is to make it challenging on both sides, for those running an industrial through red space and those hunting it down. Not serve up a bunch of victims or they will refuse to go into the kitchen.)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
229
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Posted - 2015.04.05 01:46:12 -
[325] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I think the term you're looking for here is "risk averse". Most high-sec players realize that low-sec is rigged, and that the only content to be found there are the tears most low-sec players are after. Arthur please forgive a multiple pages late post and I hope you read this. This statement has bothered me since I read it shortly after you posted it. I think "risk averse" is the wrong term to use not only here but in many other situations, so lets look at this a little more in depth.
My son has spent most of the last 7 plus years in this game playing in low/nul and he is hardcore PvP and even he will not warp into or un-dock into a situation that he knows is stacked against him, most around here call that being smart. When we apply this same situation to a high sec player who will not un-dock during a war dec all of a sudden they become "risk averse" carebears why is that?
I will agree there are many in high sec who justly deserve to be called "risk averse", but to apply the term to someone who refuses to un-dock when they know they will quickly become kill board fodder is harsh and unfair.
To me the risk averse are the ones that dock up the moment an entry shows up in local chat that is yellow or red even though that player does not even show up on overview. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1216
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Posted - 2015.04.05 01:54:31 -
[326] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: When we apply this same situation to a high sec player who will not un-dock during a war dec all of a sudden they become "risk averse" carebears why is that?. It is not limited to High Sec. I have seen 10/40 - 15/80 fighting invaders in Null Sec. People docking up and waiting until the enemy are gone. A few easy kills given to the enemy with no resistance. The risk adverse silently refusing to train a combat ship or make a frigate / destroyer alt to help the others. A week of training and a 1-2M ISK ship is just too much to expect, it would seem. It doesn't matter that if the reds were consistently killed they would not come back and the resulting blue systems would be more profitable.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Arctic Estidal
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
18
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Posted - 2015.04.05 13:55:37 -
[327] - Quote
The war dec mechanics are the sole issue and are completely broken.
CCP needs to fix war decs. It is a signficant exploit for trolling and farming kills. It is completely one sided and needs to be fixed.
That is why I have alts in NPC corps, there is just no benefit to putting them in a corp that can be war dec'd.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
229
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Posted - 2015.04.05 14:31:09 -
[328] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:The risk adverse silently refusing to train a combat ship or make a frigate / destroyer alt to help the others. A week of training and a 1-2M ISK ship is just too much to expect, it would seem. It just keeps coming back to his with you. EVERYONE should be required o fight in PvP engagements.
Involvement in any form of PvP (shooting other players ships) i nows, always has been and if CCP is smart it always will be a CHOICE we are all free to make so adjust to it and move on.
I keep asking and none of you elite high sec war dec PvP (shooting other players ships ) players have even tried to answer. When / if CCP ever gets rid of the PvE (not shooting other player ships) players who are you going to pick on? When / if CCP removes all PvE content are you so risk averse that you will quit instead of facing others who want to blow you apart?
And ultimately I have to wonder where all the hate comes from. PvE players are using perfectly valid and legal game mechanics to play in this sandbox the way they want to. In many cases (see list below) they are using the exact same mechanics that the PvP( shoot others players ships) players do. You know things like Staying docked when the odds are not in your favor. Staying docked when you face a ship / fit that you have no chance against. Staying docked when you face a player whose skill is far greater than your own. Jumping corp for whatever. Playing on alts so you can avoid the war dec that you filed.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1221
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Posted - 2015.04.05 15:47:43 -
[329] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Staying docked when the odds are not in your favor. My Null Sec example is where the odds are in their favour. Donnachadh wrote:Staying docked when you face a ship / fit that you have no chance against. Home advantage means you can adjust and swop ships or change fleet composition. Donnachadh wrote:Staying docked when you face a player whose skill is far greater than your own. Your skill does not improve if you stay docked. Arctic Estidal wrote:The war dec mechanics are the sole issue and are completely broken. CCP needs to fix war decs. It is a signficant exploit for trolling and farming kills. It is completely one sided and needs to be fixed. Agreed.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6751
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Posted - 2015.07.03 01:34:46 -
[330] - Quote
I think this thread is fraught with all kinds of good ideas, even if they conflict at times.
Overall we can all agree one this: there is an observable tendency for a lot of new players to reach a point where they can get into PVP early on and enjoy this game which is PVP oriented, or get past that point and fall into a rut of grind and asset accumulation and become risk averse. The latter will leave out of boredom sooner than the former will leave out of simply outgrowing the game.
This is why I feel that if NPC corporations periodically wardecced each other from time to time, this could jog a lot of players out of their grinds and ruts. There are starter corporations, which for the most part are faction corporations (Federal Navy and State Protectorate for example) and there are those NPC corps that players get shunted into when they drop their membership in player corps.
Strife between the NPC starter corporations would be one good way to introduce new players to a kind of low level faction warfare, like an "FW Lite" so to speak. Get them shooting at each other early on and for a "good reason" (us and them which is the core of any group PVP) and I think they will have a good time and no hard feelings.
As for the NPC corps for older players who end up in them, I would make it an angle regarding storyline. Why would these NPC run corps, which have CEOs and boards, not fight each other from time to time? It can become part of the eve storyline, maybe even NPC CEOs having feuds of sorts. I would not make these never-ending wars or add complications. There are a lot of players who end up in NPC corps and the context of NPC wars is such that it's less toxic than being decced in a player corp by a bunch of bittervets. If players get more PVP in this context they are more apt to handle PVP and general warfare with other players as well. I think a good time will be had by all.
I've said as much in that thread. I hope CCP considers it.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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