Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Van Beyus
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 18:50:53 -
[1] - Quote
Right now there's too many items involved in production. It makes it too confusing for new players. I think there should be one exclusive mineral per allied region, one exclusive to dangerous sectors and one common to all. There's no need to make it more complex than that. Also, why all those mixed up minerals in the different asteroid types? I think there should be one asteroid type per mineral only. Also, one unit of asteroid should give 10 minerals at maximum efficiency and less at less efficient refining. There's no need for all those confusing quantities. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1718
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 19:20:57 -
[2] - Quote
There is nothing confusing about it
Akrasjel Lanate
General Director(CEO) of Naquatech Conglomerate
Executor of Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
|
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 19:30:29 -
[3] - Quote
This game is not simple. -1 not supported |
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
406
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 19:38:07 -
[4] - Quote
If you really think that T1 production from minerals is confusing, I hope you never go into T2 production. Especially under the old UI with about a dozen different decryptors and mysterious chances for your inventions that you had to use out of game tools to calculate.
Anyways, the different minerals have their purpose, primarily by making small bottlenecks in different areas of space for different mineral. This gives rise to trade because I have an excess of one mineral, and a shortage of another. I sell my excess and purchase my shortages.
-1
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
|
Van Beyus
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 19:38:25 -
[5] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:There is nothing confusing about it There is, you have to use spreadsheets to make proper calculations of a manufacturing process. With this system the way I proposed we could do it all the calculations in our head with no more than a notepad.
I'm not online.
|
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1539
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:04:38 -
[6] - Quote
Van Beyus wrote:It makes it too confusing for new players.
Says the guy who think we should have more than one money currencies...
|
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2245
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:07:14 -
[7] - Quote
If you find industry too confusing, I suggest you stay away from it entirely. There are quite a few of us who rather like the complexity and value the increased reward from effectively managing a supply chain involving multiple input types over a range of production options. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
630
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:09:35 -
[8] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Van Beyus wrote:It makes it too confusing for new players.
Says the guy who think we should have more than one money currencies...
yeah was thinking the same thing looks like we have another troll
Fuel block colors
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3176
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:16:35 -
[9] - Quote
Thirty seconds on google later, http://www.jitonomic.com/Reprocess/
There are dozens of tools available, why dumb the game down when you can just use your head and find them instead? |
Van Beyus
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:20:54 -
[10] - Quote
I don't want to use tools. Those tools are complex. Games must be simple so I don't have to stress about math. Why should I be punished for being bad at math?
I'm not online.
|
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3176
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:21:59 -
[11] - Quote
Van Beyus wrote:I don't want to use tools. Those tools are complex. Games must be simple so I don't have to stress about math. Why should I be punished for being bad at math?
You're playing the wrong game.
Unless you're one of the least subtle trolls we've had through here this week. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2245
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:22:03 -
[12] - Quote
Van Beyus wrote:I don't want to use tools. Those tools are complex. Games must be simple so I don't have to stress about math. Why should I be punished for being bad at math?
Because you've chosen to play Eve, that's why. |
Van Beyus
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:23:19 -
[13] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Van Beyus wrote:It makes it too confusing for new players.
Says the guy who think we should have more than one money currencies... Sorry, other players opinions made me change my mind about that. If you read the forum you will see that I created a new thread without that currency idea.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5448833#post5448833
I'm not online.
|
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1539
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Van Beyus wrote:I don't want to use tools. Those tools are complex. Games must be simple so I don't have to stress about math. Why should I be punished for being bad at math?
You don't need any tools to do industry. Making a profit out of it might be harder but you can definately build things without any tools or complex math. |
Van Beyus
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:24:45 -
[15] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Van Beyus wrote:I don't want to use tools. Those tools are complex. Games must be simple so I don't have to stress about math. Why should I be punished for being bad at math? Because you've chosen to play Eve, that's why. EvE is not a math game. There's plenty of activities on the game that does not involve math but we all have to use the market and make calculations. This is not fair.
I'm not online.
|
Van Beyus
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:27:03 -
[16] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Van Beyus wrote:I don't want to use tools. Those tools are complex. Games must be simple so I don't have to stress about math. Why should I be punished for being bad at math? You don't need any tools to do industry. Making a profit out of it might be harder but you can definately build things without any tools or complex math. It is not fair that people use complex tools get more profit than people who don't. The game should be more simple instead. There's no reason for it to be that complex other than to demand from people that they use those complex tools. This is not fair.
I'm not online.
|
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
1163
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:32:06 -
[17] - Quote
Who cares about new players? oO They learn something from EVE, things they don't get taught in RL anymore, and should stop whining. That brain in their head is there for a reason.
What's complicated about using http://eve-cost.eu/calculator or similar tools? You don't know about them? Then how about searching them with your preferred search website? That is what Google, Bing, Yahoo are for. Learn to use your tools available, that's why you sit in front of a computer (even Mac are computers, believe it or not). Moreover, if you do not want to use tools because they are complicated, how about you don't go into advanced industry and stick with T1 manufacturing? There you don't need tools and just need to multiply the minerals listed in your BPO/C with the prices you see in the market when your right click the minerals. Or you hover your mouse over the minerals in the industry window and see the price. What is so hard about that, or even unfair? |
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:32:16 -
[18] - Quote
Worst troll this week. Addition/subtraction are not complex. Don't want to do any math? Someone lied to you about eve being simple. Just because you are simple does not mean other people want feel "special" in the mentally-******** sense
Oh yah, and eve is very fair, more fair than RL. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
221
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:35:53 -
[19] - Quote
If you want EVE to be easy, then go play another game. This game is awesome because of that complexity... Besides... It keeps the immature WoW-children away. |
Van Beyus
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:42:19 -
[20] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Who cares about new players? oO They learn something from EVE, things they don't get taught in RL anymore, and should stop whining. That brain in their head is there for a reason. What's complicated about using http://eve-cost.eu/calculator or similar tools? You don't know about them? Then how about searching them with your preferred search website? That is what Google, Bing, Yahoo are for. Learn to use your tools available, that's why you sit in front of a computer (even Mac are computers, believe it or not). Moreover, if you do not want to use tools because they are complicated, how about you don't go into advanced industry and stick with T1 manufacturing? There you don't need tools and just need to multiply the minerals listed in your BPO/C with the prices you see in the market when your right click the minerals. Or you hover your mouse over the minerals in the industry window and see the price. What is so hard about that, or even unfair? When I'm mining asteroids I don't want to use a spreadsheet or a complex tool to know about wich types of ore should I mine to have the minerals I want. Why can't I just select the ore with the mineral I want and mine as much as I want of it instead? Why must I go through pages and pages of item descriptions just to begin figuring where is the mineral I must mine to build the item I want? Let's put only 5 types of mineral and make it so there's one ore for each one of them instead. It is much more fun! You don't have to learn how to use excel just to play. If you want tritanium, you mine the trinatium ore. If you want zydrine, mine the zydrine ore, wich only exists in dangerous sectors, in different quantities.
I'm not online.
|
|
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
931
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 20:50:21 -
[21] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Van Beyus wrote:I don't want to use tools. Those tools are complex. Games must be simple so I don't have to stress about math. Why should I be punished for being bad at math? You don't need any tools to do industry. Making a profit out of it might be harder but you can definately build things without any tools or complex math.
Exactly this, I don't bother with tools but rather decide on what I feel like making that should turn a good profit based on the S&I UI and a quick look at the real costs of buying the materials and the real sell price likely at any given hub.
As for the complexity I actually like it, building stuff would be dull otherwise.
|
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2245
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 21:14:19 -
[22] - Quote
Van Beyus wrote:When I'm mining asteroids I don't want to use a spreadsheet or a complex tool to know about wich types of ore should I mine to have the minerals I want. Why can't I just select the ore with the mineral I want and mine as much as I want of it instead? Why must I go through pages and pages of item descriptions just to begin figuring where is the mineral I must mine to build the item I want? Let's put only 5 types of mineral and make it so there's one ore for each one of them instead. It is much more fun! You don't have to learn how to use excel just to play. If you want tritanium, you mine the trinatium ore. If you want zydrine, mine the zydrine ore, wich only exists in dangerous sectors, in different quantities.
It's an optimization game. Rather than providing a simple optimization (need X, X comes from Y, get Y) Eve has opted for a complex route (need A, B, C, and D in different quantities; A and B come from X, B and C come from Y, A C and D come from Z, etc.). This intentionally means that the optimal activity is dynamic across different job types but also across time -- you can't just do the same thing and expect it to be the right thing all the time. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
1164
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 21:38:28 -
[23] - Quote
Van Beyus wrote:When I'm mining asteroids I don't want to use a spreadsheet or a complex tool to know about wich types of ore should I mine to have the minerals I want. Why can't I just select the ore with the mineral I want and mine as much as I want of it instead? Why must I go through pages and pages of item descriptions just to begin figuring where is the mineral I must mine to build the item I want? Let's put only 5 types of mineral and make it so there's one ore for each one of them instead. It is much more fun! You don't have to learn how to use excel just to play. If you want tritanium, you mine the trinatium ore. If you want zydrine, mine the zydrine ore, wich only exists in dangerous sectors, in different quantities. Spreadsheet? You don't need spreadsheets for mining. If you want to know what you need to mine for which minerals, consult this http://ore.cerlestes.de/#site:ore . Use. The. Internet. To. Your. Advantage. What you suggest would not be fun at all as it takes so much meaningful complexity, need for thought and consideration as well as potential for optimization as well as finding alternative sources of resources out of the game. That is completely undesirable. It would be easy, but easy is not the goal of EVE. If you want easy, you either join Goons or go (back) to Angry Birds and Farmville. Your thing about "mine the tritanium ore to get tritanium" is already in the game. There is 1 ore which gives you primarily Tritanium, 1 ore that gives primarily Zydrine, 1 ore that gives primarily Pyerite, 1 ore that gives primarily Mexallon, 1 ore primarily for Nocxium, 1 ore primarily for Isogen, 1 primarily for Megacyte and 1 primarily for Morphite. Or you simply buy the minerals from the market, which skips the mining part completely and spares you unnecessary work. What is so hard to understand there? |
Van Beyus
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 22:03:50 -
[24] - Quote
You're both wrong.
I'm not online.
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3176
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 22:06:39 -
[25] - Quote
Van Beyus wrote:You're both wrong.
Explain. |
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1754
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 22:07:52 -
[26] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Van Beyus wrote:You're both wrong. Explain. he has blue hair, a brown stache, and is the tannest amarrian ive ever seen.
he doesnt have to explain, hes Space Jersey |
Van Beyus
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 22:12:18 -
[27] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Van Beyus wrote:You're both wrong. Explain. They are basically just saying that complexity is good. That's not arguing, that's just opining.
I'm not online.
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7220
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 22:17:30 -
[28] - Quote
Van Beyus wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Van Beyus wrote:I don't want to use tools. Those tools are complex. Games must be simple so I don't have to stress about math. Why should I be punished for being bad at math? Because you've chosen to play Eve, that's why. EvE is not a math game. There's plenty of activities on the game that does not involve math but we all have to use the market and make calculations. This is not fair. I had to do a double take on the underlined part.
Now I'm laughing in RL.
EVE is entirely a "math game."
- You want to shoot at stuff with Turrets? You have to calculate ranges, ammo count, types of ammo available, what each ammo does and how it affects your shot, speeds and angles (geometry) to land good shots.
- You want to shoot at stuff with Missiles? You have to calculate ranges, ammo count, types of ammo available, what each ammo does and how it affects your shot, speeds, and size of the target.
- You want to tackle something? You have to have to calculate ranges, speed, your own HP vs the incoming damage, and angles (geometry).
- You want to haul stuff? You have to calculate the amount of stuff you want to move, the size of your cargo, the value of your cargo, your ship's HP, and how fast you can move.
It's all math. Granted... most of it you can instinctively learn and apply... but those who can do the math in their heads will have an undeniable advantage over those who don't.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3177
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 22:28:03 -
[29] - Quote
Van Beyus wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Van Beyus wrote:You're both wrong. Explain. They are basically just saying that complexity is good. That's not arguing, that's just opining.
While you are saying thinking in any way is bad. That's not arguing, that's just stupidity. |
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
92
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 22:41:33 -
[30] - Quote
Welcome to F&I, where the a player makes a proposal and backs it up with well reasoned arguement(s) as to why changes should be made, and people respond with the problems they see inherent in the proposed changes.
Reasons of "I'm too lazy to" and "wouldn't it be nice" are not justification for change, they are personal failings and opinions, respectively. People play eve for the challenge, it is the thinking MMORPG. You can do more than "dungeon stomp for loots", "crafting" is more than "get 20 panda ********* to make enchanted rod of t-bagging."
Mining is fine, you mine with one laser:you get 1 type of rock. Since that is all you really are looking for, a simple action and a simple result, you can sell that rock to more intelligent players, and still not have to do difficult basic addition. You don't even have to train many skills and you get a free mining laser on your free ships, so you don't have to skill up anything, because skill training would lead to maths.
Maths are not needed, they're just helpful for enjoyment of a complex game where thinking is encouraged.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |