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Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
159
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Posted - 2011.12.03 19:59:00 -
[61] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote:Grimpak wrote:White Matar Ra wrote:Noisrevbus wrote:Somehow there has to be a way to make this game more appealing to new players - without dumbing it down. Counterpoint: Malcanis' Law. unfortunately, this Feel free to explain it's essence, i must have missed it. (not to be stingy, i even ran a quick search without any good results).
it's in Malcanis' sig. lemme see if I can find the guy...
found it:
Quote:Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Songbird
41
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Posted - 2011.12.03 21:54:00 -
[62] - Quote
the problem with all your fits is that you think the ship was meant for solo work.
think talos and think 2 logistics pumping reps into it while it moves with 1500 m/s towards the target
it's cheap , it's agile , most important it's as fast as a hac or faster and it has 1000+ dps.
Eve - not a solo game
PS: "Malcanis' Law" is stupid and not really true. |
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2011.12.04 00:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
Stealthbug wrote:Hmmm help new players without dumbing the game down.......
Back when I was new I just got a slap to the face and was told to learn how to learn. What makes these guys so special? It-¦s the other way round: you got slapped in the face because you were especially hated... "You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
Baden Luskan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2011.12.04 09:12:00 -
[64] - Quote
Songbird wrote:the problem with all your fits is that you think the ship was meant for solo work.
think talos and think 2 logistics pumping reps into it while it moves with 1500 m/s towards the target
it's cheap , it's agile , most important it's as fast as a hac or faster and it has 1000+ dps.
Eve - not a solo game
PS: "Malcanis' Law" is stupid and not really true.
Having 2 logi sit on this ship as it motors into range of its blasters is a huge waste of time and effort of the logi.
1000 dps from 1 ship is not worth 2 logi. You can get close to that much dps in ships that have 10x a better tank.
But hey, its your isk...spend it however you want. |
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
22
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Posted - 2011.12.04 12:07:00 -
[65] - Quote
I think all the new bc's are designed to be shield tanked regardless of race, a 425mm railgun kiting talos does 800dps with surprisingly good tracking and nice speed, there is simply no reason to go facemelt in one of these when an untrimarked mega costs 25mil more with more ehp minus the lockspeed/agility which doesent mean **** in a brawl fight Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
mama guru
Thundercats Initiative Mercenaries
6
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Posted - 2011.12.04 12:33:00 -
[66] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:I think all the new bc's are designed to be shield tanked regardless of race, a 425mm railgun kiting talos does 800dps with surprisingly good tracking and nice speed, there is simply no reason to go facemelt in one of these when an untrimarked mega costs 25mil more with more ehp minus the lockspeed/agility which doesent mean **** in a brawl fight
Exactly this, these ships are skirmish vessels.
Im sure we will see 1600mm plate setups from Kil2 or some Hydra Reloaded dude killing terrible hac/vagabond pilots solo. But this does really not change their role in larger fights than 2v2's. Fit your long range turrets and bring 600ish dps to ranges way beyond canes/vagas/drakes but still close enough to avoid on grid probing.
[Talos, Init. Skirmish Rails] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Sensor Booster II
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
5x Hobgoblin II
Bring some Javelin L and Navy Lead L
Same agility of a sniper hac and a cost that is less than a T2 hullm
______
EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's to hard you are to weak. |
Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
13
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Posted - 2011.12.04 13:41:00 -
[67] - Quote
Mama guru wrote:Exactly this, these ships are skirmish vessels.
CCP stated this ships were designed for solo and to be used by experienced pilots who know who to fight and when, specially looking lone juicy targets.
no their fault everyone wants them to become the new Blob miracle everyone wants.
Just think on the Talos like that neutron Gank hyperion, with the difference the hyperion it's mean to last 2-3 similar size vessels, the Talos just break one apart and run away before friends shows up. |
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2011.12.04 17:01:00 -
[68] - Quote
Sadayiel wrote:Mama guru wrote:Exactly this, these ships are skirmish vessels. CCP stated this ships were designed for solo and to be used by experienced pilots who know who to fight and when, specially looking lone juicy targets. no their fault everyone wants them to become the new Blob or anti-Blob miracle. Just think on the Talos like that neutron Gank hyperion, with the difference the hyperion it's mean to last 2-3 similar size vessels, the Talos just break one apart and run away before friends shows up.
CCP stated that these ships were absolutely not designed for solo work. If you try to do so, all you will achieve is to be laughed at. "You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
m0cking bird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2011.12.04 17:12:00 -
[69] - Quote
So because you and CCP think or want these ships only to be used in fleets. I should only use them in fleets? What if I say fock you and fock CCP? What if I don't care who laughs @ me when I'm flying the spaceships I enjoy?
All the tier 3 battle-cruisers are designed specifically for fleets. This game was not designed for solo players or else it would not be a Massively multiple-player game. However, it's also a sandbox. Players in this game tend to take things and use them for things CCP never had in mind or could contemplate @ the time.
Many things pilots consider broken when other factors applied. Are a result of player ingenuity. So no! I wont listen to you or CCP in anything not including in the EULA. Unless I wont get caught doing so = ) |
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2011.12.04 17:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
m0cking bird wrote:So because you and CCP think or want these ships only to be used in fleets. I should only use them in fleets? What if I say fock you and fock CCP? What if I don't care who laughs @ me when I'm flying the spaceships I enjoy?
All the tier 3 battle-cruisers are designed specifically for fleets. This game was not designed for solo players or else it would not be a Massively multiple-player game. However, it's also a sandbox. Players in this game tend to take things and use them for things CCP never had in mind or could contemplate @ the time.
Many things pilots consider broken when other factors applied. Are a result of player ingenuity. So no! I wont listen to you or CCP in anything not including in the EULA. Unless I wont get caught doing so = )
Ok, the "you get laughed at" comment was over the top. But Sadayiel said that those ships were designed for solo work, and that was simply untrue. And while it-¦s fine to fly in ships just because you like their looks (i-¦m doing this as well) you don-¦t do this when you want to play seriously, with the intention of winning the fight. And I-¦m sure we will see them used in ways not previously intended but i-¦m also quite sure this won-¦t include solo play... although some missions might become quite interesting if you try to make them in a solo Tier3 BC with short range weapons. Like an extra-hard mode for fighting the boredom. "You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
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m0cking bird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2011.12.04 18:23:00 -
[71] - Quote
Sebastian N Cain wrote:m0cking bird wrote:So because you and CCP think or want these ships only to be used in fleets. I should only use them in fleets? What if I say fock you and fock CCP? What if I don't care who laughs @ me when I'm flying the spaceships I enjoy?
All the tier 3 battle-cruisers are designed specifically for fleets. This game was not designed for solo players or else it would not be a Massively multiple-player game. However, it's also a sandbox. Players in this game tend to take things and use them for things CCP never had in mind or could contemplate @ the time.
Many things pilots consider broken when other factors applied. Are a result of player ingenuity. So no! I wont listen to you or CCP in anything not including in the EULA. Unless I wont get caught doing so = ) Ok, the "you get laughed at" comment was over the top. But Sadayiel said that those ships were designed for solo work, and that was simply untrue. And while it-¦s fine to fly in ships just because you like their looks (i-¦m doing this as well) you don-¦t do this when you want to play seriously, with the intention of winning the fight. And I-¦m sure we will see them used in ways not previously intended but i-¦m also quite sure this won-¦t include solo play... although some missions might become quite interesting if you try to make them in a solo Tier3 BC with short range weapons. Like an extra-hard mode for fighting the boredom.
I'm not sure what circus you come from, nor do I care. However, from reading the previous statements on the forums. I can tell you lack experience in the variety of pvp that exist within game. So, this is the last and only time I'll respond to you, because your not worth the effort.
Referencing how CCP envisions how ships are to be used is anecdotal. They, CCP are full of sh!t. Pilots decide what roles ships are to play or have. No matter the viability or lack there of. Eve-online is a sand box (surprise). So in-effect, most Gallente ships have been placed in a niche by the player base, because that is where Gallente ships excel. Mind you, there are other ships in-game that excel in a certain niche similar to most Gallente ships. Any ship in-game can be flown solo if they're able to apply damage. Might not be very viable, but hey. Clearly, the Talos is not as viable as the others in fleets, but the Talos is alot more viable compared to the other tier battle-cruisers solo.
There are many ships that ignore thier "intended role" in-game that excel in another area (blaster-Celestis). While CCP has stated tier 3 battle-cruiser are designed for fleet engagements. Tell which ship in this multi-player game isn't? I suppose covert op ships (helios). Either way. Scouting is useful role in a fleet and so is any ship that does damage. Since I'm using tier 3 battlecruiser solo and I know many other pilots that are @ the moment. You're already wrong. I might have lost a Naga to recently, but you live and you learn. I've also lost a Talos in a fleet, but I used it mainly for solo. So I've lost 2 tier battle-cruisers solo. So, your insight into what you think is going on in-game is wrong. Pilots are flying all of them solo for whatever reason. Be it sitting off of a gate and using Tachyon Oracles or Artillery Toronado's. Engaging cruisers in a pulse laser-shield-Oracle or auto-cannon-armour/shield-Tornardo.
Anyway, I stand by my previous statements. Fock you and fock CCP and how you think ships should be used.
-proxyyyy |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
52
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Posted - 2011.12.04 18:29:00 -
[72] - Quote
Sebastian N Cain wrote:Sadayiel wrote:Mama guru wrote:Exactly this, these ships are skirmish vessels. CCP stated this ships were designed for solo and to be used by experienced pilots who know who to fight and when, specially looking lone juicy targets. no their fault everyone wants them to become the new Blob or anti-Blob miracle. Just think on the Talos like that neutron Gank hyperion, with the difference the hyperion it's mean to last 2-3 similar size vessels, the Talos just break one apart and run away before friends shows up. CCP stated that these ships were absolutely not designed for solo work. If you try to do so, all you will achieve is to be laughed at.
You have seen the 75 or so KMs where these things go solo'd by frigates and destroyers right?
The ships have two weeknesses anything that can tank them, and anything faster than them, they are NOT solo ships. |
Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
15
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Posted - 2011.12.04 19:24:00 -
[73] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Sebastian N Cain wrote:Sadayiel wrote:Mama guru wrote:Exactly this, these ships are skirmish vessels. CCP stated this ships were designed for solo and to be used by experienced pilots who know who to fight and when, specially looking lone juicy targets. no their fault everyone wants them to become the new Blob or anti-Blob miracle. Just think on the Talos like that neutron Gank hyperion, with the difference the hyperion it's mean to last 2-3 similar size vessels, the Talos just break one apart and run away before friends shows up. CCP stated that these ships were absolutely not designed for solo work. If you try to do so, all you will achieve is to be laughed at. You have seen the 75 or so KMs where these things go solo'd by frigates and destroyers right? The ships have two weeknesses anything that can tank them, and anything faster than them, they are NOT solo ships.
Ok ok let me apologize for choose the wrong words there...
Mostly in my mind there was this text: * In certain situations it will be the best ship youGÇÖve flown. In others, the last ship youGÇÖll fly before you have to buy a new one. In the hands of a talented Gallente pilot with a knack for picking the right fights at the right moments, the Talos should ensure violent festivities during the holiday season.*
also link to the Dev blog, now we can argue all the day about how to define Solo but as i see it you are alone and you must choose wisely who and when to attack, wich means you should avoid ships you can't beat or handle and hardly go 1v1 against anything that shows up
Now i agree any fast frig, and even cruisers can crush this thing with ease, i'm quitesure there is way better ships and fits for your fleet, but as the text says if you are experienced enough and now WHO and WHEN to engage, the Talos can be deadly in the right hands. |
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2011.12.04 21:25:00 -
[74] - Quote
m0cking bird wrote:blablabla....because your not worth the effort.
blablabla...
Anyway, I stand by my previous statements. Fock you and fock CCP and how you think ships should be used.
-proxyyyy
It-¦s "you-¦re not worth the effort", not "your "
And the correct answer for "you-¦re not worth the effort" is:
Yeah, whatever...
"You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
Tamiya Sarossa
Hedion University Amarr Empire
111
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 22:12:00 -
[75] - Quote
Cannot wait to fly Talos with oversized tank 1x large blaster, 5x small blasters and two nuets. The percentage of frigate pilots who check your guns before trying to get under your tracking is shockingly small. |
Spookyjay
Animosity.
0
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Posted - 2011.12.04 22:18:00 -
[76] - Quote
So Talos can Get 1400DPS(give or take) With 20k EHP and around 7km range. The Naga with blasters can get 900DPS with 40k EHP an hit to 15km.
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m0cking bird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2011.12.04 23:19:00 -
[77] - Quote
Ah hell no! Did he just correct my spelling? Mother******. Rifters @ dawn. GO! |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
366
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 01:33:00 -
[78] - Quote
Sebastian N Cain wrote:Sadayiel wrote:Mama guru wrote:Exactly this, these ships are skirmish vessels. CCP stated this ships were designed for solo and to be used by experienced pilots who know who to fight and when, specially looking lone juicy targets. no their fault everyone wants them to become the new Blob or anti-Blob miracle. Just think on the Talos like that neutron Gank hyperion, with the difference the hyperion it's mean to last 2-3 similar size vessels, the Talos just break one apart and run away before friends shows up. CCP stated that these ships were absolutely not designed for solo work. If you try to do so, all you will achieve is to be laughed at.
If you find one alone just fit any T1 Destroyer and look at it desesperately trying to go away while you slowly kill him, he will never get to go away but you will for sure kill his drones and the ship.
Let people fly them solo if they want, untill they understand those are not ment to solo stuff unless you know exactly what you're doing, they provide very nice lol killmails and very important, KM's at the same value than BS.
Let them roll. |
Mortuus
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
0
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Posted - 2011.12.05 01:40:00 -
[79] - Quote
Most of these should outrun a Destroyer or have the web/scram to stop one and kill it.
Solo Tornado, Naga and Talos look promising. If Oracle had 4 mids it could join the fun, sadly it has 3. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
18
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Posted - 2011.12.05 06:20:00 -
[80] - Quote
News just is new t3 BC'S got arse raped by 5 med ecm drones...Talos put up the fight until 7200mm cane sent pilot home in pod...
sounds fun |
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