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Solonius Rex
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104
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Posted - 2015.02.03 15:00:44 -
[1] - Quote
...Ive been using the cruise missiles against the battleships, when i noticed that my damage was all over the place.
At one point, i was dealing 1500 damage, and then, suddenly it decreased to 400.
The speed was nearly the same(It was going faster when i dealt the 1500 damage for some reason), so can someone explain to me whats happening here?
I understand the missile damage formula, but everything about it seems to be off. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5964
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Posted - 2015.02.03 15:29:30 -
[2] - Quote
MWD signature bloom?
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Solonius Rex
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104
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Posted - 2015.02.03 15:45:46 -
[3] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:MWD signature bloom?
He was burning at me with nearly the same speed in both instances, one from 70km and the other from 40km.
This seems to happen during L4 missions as well, im getting extremely mixed damages even though im attacking the same battleship, same speed etc. One second im doing 3k damage, then the next only 800. |
NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
7
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Posted - 2015.02.03 15:50:29 -
[4] - Quote
Did you transition to a new HP pool? Shields vs Armor vs Hull? Since they often have different resistances, I'll sometimes catch myself wondering what changed between shots and realize I'm just dumb. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5964
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Posted - 2015.02.03 15:56:42 -
[5] - Quote
Oh, now I remember: Defender missiles. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they don't.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5849
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Posted - 2015.02.03 16:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Did the lower number hit only come once in a while... say right about the time a particular ship died? You can't hit for 1500 damage if there's only 400 hp left.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Soldarius
Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent
1072
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Posted - 2015.02.03 16:22:59 -
[7] - Quote
Defender missiles. That will do it. Many NPCs have them.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Solonius Rex
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Posted - 2015.02.03 16:44:37 -
[8] - Quote
NovaCat13 wrote:Did you transition to a new HP pool? Shields vs Armor vs Hull? Since they often have different resistances, I'll sometimes catch myself wondering what changed between shots and realize I'm just dumb.
My understanding was that NPC sheild and armor have the same resists.
Abrazzar wrote:Oh, now I remember: Defender missiles. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they don't.
Nope, i was fighting this, for example, and he didnt have defender missiles.
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=24126
Damage was still erratic.
War Kitten wrote:Did the lower number hit only come once in a while... say right about the time a particular ship died? You can't hit for 1500 damage if there's only 400 hp left.
Nope, it was right in the middle, i.e. middle of shields, middle of hull, etc. Literally, i was in the middle of hitting the enemies sheilds, it would go 50% down because i did 4k damage, and then the next would only bring his sheilds down to like 40% because i only did 800 damage. |
Tikra Vargur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.02.03 17:59:13 -
[9] - Quote
I have noticed the same thing ratting with my Nemesis, I used to have no problem taking out Clone Soldiers. I would do pretty much the same damage start to finish. Now I can't kill them. I do full damage till they are about 30 percent armour then my DPS dies and I can't break the tank. One day Clone Soldiers are easy money, the next I can't kill them?? |
Xenuria
Tackled In Belt xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
984
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Posted - 2015.02.03 20:53:12 -
[10] - Quote
The way in which most NPCs interact in combat follows different rules than other players.
Signature strength for example has no effect on the ability of enemy rats to jam you. They also don't suffer the same sig rad penalty from using MWD. Combat with Epic Arc Rats is very unpredictable because that aspect of the game hasn't gotten attention for some time.
CSM 10 Candidate
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Solonius Rex
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106
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Posted - 2015.02.03 20:59:18 -
[11] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:The way in which most NPCs interact in combat follows different rules than other players.
Signature strength for example has no effect on the ability of enemy rats to jam you. They also don't suffer the same sig rad penalty from using MWD. Combat with Epic Arc Rats is very unpredictable because that aspect of the game hasn't gotten attention for some time.
I did it with L4 rats and the outcome was the same. Highly erratic damage. No significant change in speed. |
Black Panpher
Ganja Inc
2588
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Posted - 2015.02.03 21:02:13 -
[12] - Quote
Tikra Vargur wrote:I have noticed the same thing ratting with my Nemesis, I used to have no problem taking out Clone Soldiers. I would do pretty much the same damage start to finish. Now I can't kill them. I do full damage till they are about 30 percent armour then my DPS dies and I can't break the tank. One day Clone Soldiers are easy money, the next I can't kill them??
Do you use a target painter? |
Solonius Rex
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Posted - 2015.02.03 21:03:21 -
[13] - Quote
Black Panpher wrote:Tikra Vargur wrote:I have noticed the same thing ratting with my Nemesis, I used to have no problem taking out Clone Soldiers. I would do pretty much the same damage start to finish. Now I can't kill them. I do full damage till they are about 30 percent armour then my DPS dies and I can't break the tank. One day Clone Soldiers are easy money, the next I can't kill them?? Do you use a target painter?
I thought it might be my target painter, so i decided to switch it off. The outcome was the same. |
Black Panpher
Ganja Inc
2590
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Posted - 2015.02.03 21:07:04 -
[14] - Quote
Solonius Rex wrote:Black Panpher wrote:Tikra Vargur wrote:I have noticed the same thing ratting with my Nemesis, I used to have no problem taking out Clone Soldiers. I would do pretty much the same damage start to finish. Now I can't kill them. I do full damage till they are about 30 percent armour then my DPS dies and I can't break the tank. One day Clone Soldiers are easy money, the next I can't kill them?? Do you use a target painter? I thought it might be my target painter, so i decided to switch it off. The outcome was the same.
I was having the same problem as the poster I quoted, I found having my target painter in optimal range made my damage much more consistent. |
Solonius Rex
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106
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Posted - 2015.02.03 21:10:23 -
[15] - Quote
Black Panpher wrote:Solonius Rex wrote:Black Panpher wrote:Tikra Vargur wrote:I have noticed the same thing ratting with my Nemesis, I used to have no problem taking out Clone Soldiers. I would do pretty much the same damage start to finish. Now I can't kill them. I do full damage till they are about 30 percent armour then my DPS dies and I can't break the tank. One day Clone Soldiers are easy money, the next I can't kill them?? Do you use a target painter? I thought it might be my target painter, so i decided to switch it off. The outcome was the same. I was having the same problem as the poster I quoted, I found having my target painter in optimal range made my damage much more consistent.
As far as i know, rats have the same resists in both armor and sheilds, correct? All info on all NPCs seem to confirm this. |
Tikra Vargur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2015.02.03 21:45:15 -
[16] - Quote
No target painter,I have been doing this for awhile and the damage is always steady. Caldari Navy Inferno Torps. I usually get two volleys before I am targeted back. The damage works steadily through the shields and then the armor and then all of a sudden my DPS sucks and the armor is slowly regenerating and I can't get it do anything about it.
I have tried to maintain fire only to see the armor completely regenerate while my anemic DPS never recovers.
Too bad really I was having a lot of fun with that setup. If its not a bug it's really disappointing |
Amelia Ronuken
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.02.04 01:21:01 -
[17] - Quote
Solonius Rex wrote:NovaCat13 wrote:Did you transition to a new HP pool? Shields vs Armor vs Hull? Since they often have different resistances, I'll sometimes catch myself wondering what changed between shots and realize I'm just dumb. My understanding was that NPC sheild and armor have the same resists. Abrazzar wrote:Oh, now I remember: Defender missiles. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they don't. Nope, i was fighting this, for example, and he didnt have defender missiles. http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=24126 Damage was still erratic. War Kitten wrote:Did the lower number hit only come once in a while... say right about the time a particular ship died? You can't hit for 1500 damage if there's only 400 hp left. Nope, it was right in the middle, i.e. middle of shields, middle of hull, etc. Literally, i was in the middle of hitting the enemies sheilds, it would go 50% down because i did 4k damage, and then the next would only bring his sheilds down to like 40% because i only did 800 damage.
According to that link, your NPC does have defender missiles.
"entityDefenderChance 0.13" |
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2828
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Posted - 2015.02.04 04:53:53 -
[18] - Quote
You were shooting in hull, which has zero resist, and then it boosted its shields (hence giving shield resists).
Also, when you are about to penetrate armor, damage has a chance to damage the hull as well (which has zero resists). Couple this with defender missiles, which this NPC does have, then yes, 'erratic' damage will happen everywhere.
Now, just to make this clear, this entity may have same armor/shield resists, but that is certainly not true for the majority of NPCs. Different layer resists and defender missiles caused your erratic damage.
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Theodoric Darkwind
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
318
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Posted - 2015.02.04 05:14:13 -
[19] - Quote
Are you using Furies by chance? I've noticed that faction cruise missiles produce much more consistent damage than Furies. |
Agent Luther Sloan
Starfleet Academy Red Squad
24
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Posted - 2015.02.04 08:08:28 -
[20] - Quote
Nice to see another person who runs the arcs. If you want to have more fun, try it in a frig next time. :-) |
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Soldarius
Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent
1076
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Posted - 2015.02.05 14:36:50 -
[21] - Quote
"entityDefenderChance, 0.13"
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Black Panpher
Ganja Inc
2620
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Posted - 2015.02.05 18:09:52 -
[22] - Quote
Tikra Vargur wrote:No target painter,I have been doing this for awhile and the damage is always steady. Caldari Navy Inferno Torps. I usually get two volleys before I am targeted back. The damage works steadily through the shields and then the armor and then all of a sudden my DPS sucks and the armor is slowly regenerating and I can't get it do anything about it.
I have tried to maintain fire only to see the armor completely regenerate while my anemic DPS never recovers.
Too bad really I was having a lot of fun with that setup. If its not a bug it's really disappointing
well just fyi, I have a hound fit that can kill them all but then again my sub cap skills are supreme! |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
606
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Posted - 2015.02.05 18:25:10 -
[23] - Quote
Fluctuating resistances, speed and more importantly defender missiles - if shooting smaller targets it will be due to signature radius. They can vastly reduce the damage of a volley. |
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY F0RCED ENTRY.
111
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Posted - 2015.02.05 18:29:27 -
[24] - Quote
Amelia Ronuken wrote:Solonius Rex wrote:NovaCat13 wrote:Did you transition to a new HP pool? Shields vs Armor vs Hull? Since they often have different resistances, I'll sometimes catch myself wondering what changed between shots and realize I'm just dumb. My understanding was that NPC sheild and armor have the same resists. Abrazzar wrote:Oh, now I remember: Defender missiles. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they don't. Nope, i was fighting this, for example, and he didnt have defender missiles. http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=24126 Damage was still erratic. War Kitten wrote:Did the lower number hit only come once in a while... say right about the time a particular ship died? You can't hit for 1500 damage if there's only 400 hp left. Nope, it was right in the middle, i.e. middle of shields, middle of hull, etc. Literally, i was in the middle of hitting the enemies sheilds, it would go 50% down because i did 4k damage, and then the next would only bring his sheilds down to like 40% because i only did 800 damage. According to that link, your NPC does have defender missiles. "entityDefenderChance 0.13"
I find it quite unbelievable that Defender missiles could account for 4k damage to be reduced to 800, and at nearly every other hit. Or 1500 to 400.
Here are some screenshots: http://i.imgur.com/TqXvTkM.jpg http://i.imgur.com/W5eb0Mn.jpg
I was in the Studio 1 mission of the epic arc. This was the NPC that i was attacking: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=29697
Equal resists on both armor and sheilds according to this info. Using the same ammo type. Speed nearly identical(792 vs 848), though this was occurring throughout the entire attack. No target painters.
So, what, Epic arc battleships shoot down 3/4 of my cruise missiles with each defender missile volley? |
Davey Talvanen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
16
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Posted - 2015.02.07 17:01:16 -
[25] - Quote
Solonius Rex wrote:I find it quite unbelievable that Defender missiles could account for 4k damage to be reduced to 800, and at nearly every other hit. Or 1500 to 400. Here are some screenshots: http://i.imgur.com/TqXvTkM.jpg http://i.imgur.com/W5eb0Mn.jpg I was in the Studio 1 mission of the epic arc. This was the NPC that i was attacking: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=29697 Equal resists on both armor and sheilds according to this info. Using the same ammo type. Speed nearly identical(792 vs 848), though this was occurring throughout the entire attack. No target painters. So, what, Epic arc battleships shoot down 3/4 of my cruise missiles with each defender missile volley?
Probably. The defender missiles will kill the majority of the volley
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Chris Winter
Winters Are Coming
621
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Posted - 2015.02.07 17:20:06 -
[26] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:The way in which most NPCs interact in combat follows different rules than other players.
Signature strength for example has no effect on the ability of enemy rats to jam you. Yes it does. It has the expected effect, but NPC jam strength is so strong that they'll still jam you anyway a good chunk of the time.
Quote: They also don't suffer the same sig rad penalty from using MWD.
Yes they do. Most NPCs don't have MWDs, but those that do (sleepers, incursion rats, and some mission rats) definitely suffer the sig bloom penalty.
OP, it's possible the NPC had just shut off their MWD when your smaller volley hit. They'd still be going the same speed (coasting down to normal speed) but wouldn't have the sig bloom anymore. I see this all the time. |
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY F0RCED ENTRY.
131
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Posted - 2015.02.07 20:20:22 -
[27] - Quote
Davey Talvanen wrote:Solonius Rex wrote:I find it quite unbelievable that Defender missiles could account for 4k damage to be reduced to 800, and at nearly every other hit. Or 1500 to 400. Here are some screenshots: http://i.imgur.com/TqXvTkM.jpg http://i.imgur.com/W5eb0Mn.jpg I was in the Studio 1 mission of the epic arc. This was the NPC that i was attacking: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=29697 Equal resists on both armor and sheilds according to this info. Using the same ammo type. Speed nearly identical(792 vs 848), though this was occurring throughout the entire attack. No target painters. So, what, Epic arc battleships shoot down 3/4 of my cruise missiles with each defender missile volley? Probably. The defender missiles will kill the majority of the volley
This isnt true with all other tests regarding defender missiles on NPCs, though.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263252
Heres a good thread detailing the NPC defender missiles. |
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY F0RCED ENTRY.
131
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Posted - 2015.02.07 20:21:51 -
[28] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Xenuria wrote:The way in which most NPCs interact in combat follows different rules than other players.
Signature strength for example has no effect on the ability of enemy rats to jam you. Yes it does. It has the expected effect, but NPC jam strength is so strong that they'll still jam you anyway a good chunk of the time. Quote: They also don't suffer the same sig rad penalty from using MWD.
Yes they do. Most NPCs don't have MWDs, but those that do (sleepers, incursion rats, and some mission rats) definitely suffer the sig bloom penalty. OP, it's possible the NPC had just shut off their MWD when your smaller volley hit. They'd still be going the same speed (coasting down to normal speed) but wouldn't have the sig bloom anymore. I see this all the time.
Unless they were activating and reactivating every couple of seconds, because speed was relatively constant, i dont see how this is the case.
They were over 40Km away, after all. |
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
480
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Posted - 2015.02.09 02:31:45 -
[29] - Quote
Okay. I have to ask. What's a Gallente Epic arc?
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Solonius Rex
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Posted - 2015.02.09 07:26:41 -
[30] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Okay. I have to ask. What's a Gallente Epic arc?
Its like a string of L4 missions that lasts for 10 missions. You get like 5-10 million isk each for completing it, and a Black eagle drone link augmentor worth 160 mill at the end. |
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