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Pestilen Ratte
Artimus Ratte
9
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:04:44 -
[1] - Quote
I have recently been put on the spot with regards to cyber bullying.
For context, I'm a lawyer and I really like Eve online. While talking about the game, another lawyer who has never played made the comment "Oh, you are one of the cyber bullies."
That was a bit of a slap in the face. This person knew nothing at all about Eve, except that we are all notorious cyber bullies.
This thread is aimed at the Eve community, to highlight our reputation in the world, and to highlight the risks we face by associating with an organization such as CCP.
We need to be clear about how Eve and CCP are perceived in the wider world.
The uncontested facts are not flattering. In 2012 an incident occurred which came dangerously close to attempted murder, for the sheer fun of it. Understand, when reasonable people hear and see the facts of what happened, they react with extreme anger and hostility.
The grave problem for all of us is how things have settled, 3 years on. That anger and hostility towards the criminal cowards who use Eve as a platform for their cyber bullying is not going away: indeed, it is growing. All over the world, laws are being drafted and passed to curb the misery caused by sociopaths on the internet.
So, where do we, as a community, fit in to this emerging picture?
Sadly, there are two increasingly divergent opinions. One is that CCP confronted and dealt with the issue, and that CCP have ethics that protect the firm from sliding into the mire. Another opinion, offered to me recently with much force and conviction, is that CCP are a business model based on cyber bullying, whose revenues depend on cyber bullying. Without cyber bullying, the argument goes, Eve would not exist at all.
I find both opinions extreme and unrealistic, but very sadly I think CCP have failed to act in such a way as to clear their name. I think it is almost certain that Eve will soon become an icon, a symbol for the worst of the worst.
To be clear, right now there are a whole bunch of lawyers who want CCP shut down for good. One small change in Icelandic law, and it is done.
Who are these people: Basically every lawyer who sees themselves as a cyber bullying expert, and who has career aspirations to this end.
Why are they targeting CCP?
Here we get into sensitive territory. Please consider the subject heading for this post.
In my discussion, I tried to defend Eve and CCP. I was asked the following questions:
1. Did you know that a guy openly, on stage, encouraged others to pressure a mentally weak person to actual, real life suicide?
2. What was his punishment by the game owners?
3. What is his current status within the game?
Because of my particular background, I was also asked what fate would await an officer who encouraged troops to push a mentally weak person to suicide. We need not go there, except to note that the behaviour in question has nothing to do with decent people, nor is it part of any real world warrior code.
So, here is the problem: one cannot answer those three questions and retain any kind of meaningful defence of CCP, as an organization. Put simply, CCP have decided to associate with this person. They have sat at his side of the table. Their leadership sit with this man, and entertain his kind without shame.
It seems to me that this state of affairs is both regrettable and ultimately untenable. Follow the simple reasoning:
If it is true that CCP need the revenues from such people, then it follows that Eve is, absolutely, a business model based entirely on cyber bullying.
If it is not true that CCP need the revenue from such people, then it follows that CCP has seriously worthless individuals across all levels of senior management, and is a cyber bullying outfit by choice.
Both choices are poor, both come from the uncontested facts, as established by the three questions listed above.
This issue is not going to fade away. The power of this reasoning will never diminish through time.
I would be pleased to hear the views of CCP staff on this subject.
We all need to know the nature of the company we keep. We are entitled to know the values of those we sit down with, on a daily basis. |
Paranoid Loyd
3764
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:10:58 -
[2] - Quote
A real life space lawyer!
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
253
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:20:38 -
[3] - Quote
This thread will to go places.
Most accusations of cyber bullying in EVE come from sore losers who complain when their space ships explode in a game about making space ships explode. These accusations are laughable and do not get taken seriously by anyone, lawyer or not. Should we ban Counter Strike because people shoot at other people's virtual avatars in that game too?
As someone who was actually bullied as a child, I find people who dare to equate losing in a game to being bullied disgusting.
As for the mittanigate, you are a bit late for the party. |
shimiku
Black VooDoo Asassins The Kadeshi
31
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:23:02 -
[4] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:A real life space lawyer! how much isk do you think he cost per hour ? |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1964
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:25:09 -
[5] - Quote
Pestilen Ratte wrote:We all need to know the nature of the company we keep. We are entitled to know the values of those we sit down with, on a daily basis. Well, I don't know about daily basis, but the truth is not a value in this thread.
Factual accuracy aside, this inane babble isn't even entertaining. (Well, ok, it is a little)
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
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Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
1906
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:29:04 -
[6] - Quote
Wall of text about cyber bullying when what is clearly lacking is an actual definition anywhere therein of what a "cyber bully" actually is.
Congratulations, you should go into politics.
On the other hand coming from the healthcare side of things myself I find it worrying that you would feel so moved by the comment of one person. It obviously means a lot to you if you were prepared to put so much thought and time into your statement. Do you usually react this way to offhand remarks? At what point will it start to worry you? |
Mijel Riak
Extensive Enterprises Space
13
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:31:26 -
[7] - Quote
shimiku wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:A real life space lawyer! how much isk do you think he cost per hour ?
$200/hr = assumed hrly rate 1 Plex = $19.95 1 Plex ~ 800,000,000 ISK Estimate ($200/hr / $19.95) * 800,000,000 = 8,020,050,125 Isk/hr |
Hibernator X
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
33
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:35:23 -
[8] - Quote
Who are these lawyers who want to shut CCP down, if it's basically "everyone who sees themselves as a cyber bullying expert" as you say could you provide the names for.. say 5? I'd really like to ask them via email about it.
And what is this small change in Icelandic law that these lawyers are pushing for?
Unfortunately your post comes off as a hyperbolic, sensationalist version of "my retriever got ganked" or "my friend who has never played Eve has a bias against the game and I support him"
So forgive me, but you'll find I'm not the only sceptic here. The picture you're painting is nothing but smear without legitimate references. |
Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
770
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:41:16 -
[9] - Quote
Full disclosure: I swerve to hit squirrels.
Vote Sabriz!
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11676
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:42:39 -
[10] - Quote
Somehow, I find myself doubting the sincerity of this thread.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4226
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:44:04 -
[11] - Quote
I'll just pop in here to remind people that this thread is being watched by a guy behind a newspaper in the corner of the diner.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Vector Symian
0 Fear
236
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:48:43 -
[12] - Quote
Im Australian and we have a strange sense of humour and its called s**t stirring
so I consider light trolling to be a lot of fun
What is called trolling is in sometime called banter. we insult because we feel you are alright enough to know we are not serious and we are "stirring you up"
when I was a kid I did not get the memo and I took everything thrown at me personally and it ended up ruining school for me. I though they were serious and only learned later that they were pulling my leg...(kind of like verbally playing)
it is also a way of seeing ones true reaction to social pressure and that helps us to decide whether you are worthy of trust. in a Global community that increasingly hides its true intentions behind a veil of polite courtesy provoking anger is becoming a great way of finding honest intention.
I was in awe of the kids who could give as good as they got and eventfully I learned to do the same
BUT there is a line and every Australian learns where its by crossing it and being told "too far" in which an apology is in order
Online trolls are majority teenage boys/girls that haven't learned where the line is yet or less socially adept people that never learned it in the first place and online can be a safe place to learn
I believe in some cases a bit of grief can be good for "sheltered people" that might find real life a bit confusing |
Noriko Mai
2057
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:49:43 -
[13] - Quote
I, as an expert on expertism and everything else there is, think that CCP is doing a great job!
Come On Everybody, support Dark Opaque theme
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
19768
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:50:55 -
[14] - Quote
Well ill be. Its a damned 'Grrrrrrr Mittani' thread.
Some say that when mention of his name is at an all time low, an alt will arise to speak it once more....Mittani.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
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Paranoid Loyd
3769
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Posted - 2015.02.06 01:57:32 -
[15] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:I'll just pop in here to remind people that this thread is being watched by a guy behind a newspaper in the corner of the diner.
How do you know when you've made a ship toast of epic proportion?
You get trolled by the ones who are supposed to stop the trolling.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
35
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:02:58 -
[16] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:I'll just pop in here to remind people that this thread is being watched by a guy behind a newspaper in the corner of the diner.
Sir, would you step outside, to that back alley with me, please. |
Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
135
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:18:42 -
[17] - Quote
So when I camp that attack helicopter in bf4 and dont let him get in the air the whole round, cyber bully? |
Ria Nieyli
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
31348
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:18:56 -
[18] - Quote
The company you keep reflects upon you by slowly molding your behaviour towards their own. Now, the EVE community is very decent by large...
Oh, who am I kidding? This game attracts a certain sort of assertive personalities and it causes a lot of friction, especially when a portion of them don't have the necessary mental fortitude to back it up and cry foul. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11677
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:21:33 -
[19] - Quote
Potamus Jenkins wrote:So when I camp that attack helicopter in bf4 and dont let him get in the air the whole round, cyber bully?
Definitely. And you should feel bad.
But by telling you that you should feel bad, I am myself now a cyber bully, and I feel bad. This backfired.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Sir Substance
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
674
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:23:22 -
[20] - Quote
Pestilen Ratte wrote: To be clear, right now there are a whole bunch of lawyers who want CCP shut down for good. One small change in Icelandic law, and it is done.
Got a citation for that, big fella?
It's pretty rare for countries to implement laws targeted at specifically killing off a particular company. It tends to make international business think twice about establishing in your country, and Iceland needs that right now.
If such a law were passed, CCP has three other sites they could flee to in an emergency. I'm sure that transitioning your company from an Icelandic company to an English company is a pain in the arse, involving much paper shuffling and selling assets to yourself, but it's better than shutting down.
In addition, you know that Lawyers don't get to write law, right? Politicians do that.
All things considered, 1/10 lawyer, would not hire to represent me in talking to the club down the road about excessive noise levels.
The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex
Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
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Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
136
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:23:42 -
[21] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Potamus Jenkins wrote:So when I camp that attack helicopter in bf4 and dont let him get in the air the whole round, cyber bully? Definitely. And you should feel bad. But by telling you that you should feel bad, I am myself now a cyber bully, and I feel bad. This backfired.
STOP DICTATING MY FEELS! |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
2280
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:27:22 -
[22] - Quote
Relevant.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8764
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:29:27 -
[23] - Quote
incoming carebears calling us predators sociopaths
Get your pitchforcs cheeper than jita
----------E ----------E ----------E ----------E
iv only got 4 though so first come first serve.
on a serious note though, where did the E1 sticky go? seems like that would be pertinent reading for the op.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Vector Symian
0 Fear
237
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:32:58 -
[24] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:incoming carebears calling us predators sociopaths
Get your pitchforcs cheeper than jita
----------E ----------E ----------E ----------E
iv only got 4 though so first come first serve.
on a serious note though, where did the E1 sticky go? seems like that would be pertinent reading for the op.
OOOOh
MEMEMEMEMEME!
BAd BANTER BULLY!
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11680
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:33:11 -
[25] - Quote
Potamus Jenkins wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Potamus Jenkins wrote:So when I camp that attack helicopter in bf4 and dont let him get in the air the whole round, cyber bully? Definitely. And you should feel bad. But by telling you that you should feel bad, I am myself now a cyber bully, and I feel bad. This backfired. STOP DICTATING MY FEELS!
But I can't, because my feels tell me that your feels are bad.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
774
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:34:13 -
[26] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:incoming carebears calling us predators sociopaths
Get your pitchforcs cheeper than jita
----------E ----------E ----------E ----------E
iv only got 4 though so first come first serve.
on a serious note though, where did the E1 sticky go? seems like that would be pertinent reading for the op.
I am in the market for a dependable pitchfork (not for riots, but for space hay)
Name your price.
Vote Sabriz!
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4229
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Posted - 2015.02.06 02:37:54 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:Forum rules5. Trolling is prohibited.Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. As this thread went in the direction it did, I'll be closing a little earlier than I'd hoped.
Closed.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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