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ChromeStriker
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
822
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 15:13:23 -
[1] - Quote
All,
We have all heard stories of the child eating demon ship. It still causes a cold sweat in capital ship pilots across known and unknown space, and wonderfully confuses station game players when their neutral logistics suddenly stop... "not helping"... The Bloodraider Bhaalgorn. Master of its craft, a terror of the space lanes and only mentioned in hushed voices.
...but our world has changed... few are the times now you hear of this once dreaded but now apparently forgotten ship.
The GÇÿbigGÇÖ fleets seemingly overlook it for "moar dps" or "needs moar logi". When the size and grandeur of these combats number in hundreds or thousands... there is no place for such a noble and maleficent ship. Alpha and numbers are key. If you canGÇÖt count your hitpoints in the millions, logistics will all but pass you by. Which of course pushes the Bhaalgorn into obscurity, too unique for its own survivability when even having your name begin with the letter 'A' can all but seal your annihilation.
When the numbers drop, the Bhaalgorns Power climbs. It appears to make space smaller when it lands on the field of battle. Boasting powerful weapons, immense survivability, and of course its signature unrivalled ability to completely lock down a target and drain them into useless floating husks. However this has almost become legend, restricted to unique, fleeting moments only heard of in passing and never really believed. Its size, rarity, high requirement of skill to pilot, and... to a degree, its own grandeur, seems to have caused its use to wane.
The Bhaalgorn is a ship of fear. Fear to its enemies (with good reason), but also to those who use itGǪ When you pilot this inimitable ship you feel its power, the knowledge that even the mighty Titan pilots must respect your abilities. But this power is tainted, there are good reasons for its naming especially considering its roots. Even we capsuleers, shy away from its use. No one wants to be the Bhaalgorn pilot to cause its destruction, and this is more pronounced than nearly any other ship. Capital ships are commonplace, other ships of the pirate factions can be seen in use all across the regions of spaceGǪ but the BhaalgornGǪ it has reached such a profound level of obscurity that the fear of losing one can be as powerful as the fear of fighting against one.
And of those few that do fly these ships of fear, but have mastered their ownGǪ They control a force named after every vestige of the devil through antiquityGǪ
No Worries
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Antillie Sa'Kan
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
905
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Posted - 2015.02.10 15:28:34 -
[2] - Quote
What did I just read? |
ChromeStriker
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
822
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Posted - 2015.02.10 15:30:44 -
[3] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:What did I just read?
TBH im not even sure what i wrote...
Umm...
People should use Bhaalgorn's more?
No Worries
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
894
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Posted - 2015.02.10 15:35:29 -
[4] - Quote
Gigantic bloody tampon.
Ship only shines with a full set of talismans.
Meh.
Not today spaghetti.
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ChromeStriker
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
822
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Posted - 2015.02.10 15:39:30 -
[5] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:Gigantic bloody tampon.
Ship only shines with a full set of talismans.
Meh.
ahh your a 2bill or bust kinda person lol
Why is it so bad otherwise?
No Worries
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HoruSeth
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2015.02.10 15:47:17 -
[6] - Quote
Bhaalgorn has some niches in other fleets as well, which some just now begin to reveal.
But yes, it's niche ship only so far. |
Belthazor4011
For Your Bacon Only The Marmite Collective
147
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 17:15:09 -
[7] - Quote
Force mutiplier, every ship gets worse with no cap.
But it really shines with the new NOS bonus. Thats where it gets sick. Massive amounts of own cap while everyone else slowly runs dry.
Plus its soooo pretty |
Argent Rotineque
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2015.02.10 18:03:18 -
[8] - Quote
I suspect it's most valued bonus isn't far enough above that of the Armageddon's to justify the difference in insured cost. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
978
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 18:51:39 -
[9] - Quote
bhaalgorns are almost essential in a wormhole cap fleet. |
Enyalie
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
32
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Posted - 2015.02.11 01:52:53 -
[10] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:All, We have all heard stories of the child eating demon ship. It still causes a cold sweat in capital ship pilots across known and unknown space, and wonderfully confuses station game players when their neutral logistics suddenly stop... "not helping"... The Bloodraider Bhaalgorn. Master of its craft, a terror of the space lanes and only mentioned in hushed voices. ...but our world has changed... few are the times now you hear of this once dreaded but now apparently forgotten ship. The GÇÿbigGÇÖ fleets seemingly overlook it for "moar dps" or "needs moar logi". When the size and grandeur of these combats number in hundreds or thousands... there is no place for such a noble and maleficent ship. Alpha and numbers are key. If you canGÇÖt count your hitpoints in the millions, logistics will all but pass you by. Which of course pushes the Bhaalgorn into obscurity, too unique for its own survivability when even having your name begin with the letter 'A' can all but seal your annihilation. When the numbers drop, the Bhaalgorns Power climbs. It appears to make space smaller when it lands on the field of battle. Boasting powerful weapons, immense survivability, and of course its signature unrivalled ability to completely lock down a target and drain them into useless floating husks. However this has almost become legend, restricted to unique, fleeting moments only heard of in passing and never really believed. Its size, rarity, high requirement of skill to pilot, and... to a degree, its own grandeur, seems to have caused its use to wane. The Bhaalgorn is a ship of fear. Fear to its enemies (with good reason), but also to those who use itGǪ When you pilot this inimitable ship you feel its power, the knowledge that even the mighty Titan pilots must respect your abilities. But this power is tainted, there are good reasons for its naming especially considering its roots. Even we capsuleers, shy away from its use. No one wants to be the Bhaalgorn pilot to cause its destruction, and this is more pronounced than nearly any other ship. Capital ships are commonplace, other ships of the pirate factions can be seen in use all across the regions of spaceGǪ but the BhaalgornGǪ it has reached such a profound level of obscurity that the fear of losing one can be as powerful as the fear of fighting against one. And of those few that do fly these ships of fear, but have mastered their ownGǪ They control a force named after every vestige of the devil through antiquityGǪ
Touched me somewhere I though had died in the Bleaklands in 08.
I'm going to bring it into service. |
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Liam Inkuras
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
1440
|
Posted - 2015.02.11 04:36:24 -
[11] - Quote
Nano Bhaal is a thing you know
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
40
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Posted - 2015.02.11 09:33:20 -
[12] - Quote
Current prices are amazing 440m, fime go buy gus. Such amazing ship for such funny cost. I do remember when not that many could afford bhaal with t2 trimarks and full faction fit.
Still amazing and i do prey for a pefson who brought DB ships into this game. |
SkyFlyer
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
96
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Posted - 2015.02.11 11:53:21 -
[13] - Quote
Solo Bhaalgorn best bhaal... |
Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
24
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Posted - 2015.02.11 21:28:04 -
[14] - Quote
I've coveted that ship since 2008, but vowed I would never fly one until I found the blueprint and built it myself.
I should get into exploration or something. Maybe now it's time. |
Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
90
|
Posted - 2015.02.11 22:55:38 -
[15] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:there is no place for such a noble and maleficent ship. Wormholes mate... wormholes. That place where people still fly things that aren't Ishtars or Tengus.
Bhaals are pure awesomeness here. |
Ares Desideratus
Star Children Of Cain
203
|
Posted - 2015.02.11 23:03:25 -
[16] - Quote
I don't understand why the Bhaalgorn is an Armageddon hull. It's not that I don't like the Armageddon hull, it's just that the Cruor and the Ashimmu both have unique hulls, and I think it would be cool if the Bhaalgorn also had a unique hull.
Same with the Vigilant, Vindicator, Worm, Gila, and Rattlesnake.
I'm a creator, preserver, destroyer, I like makin' stuff and doin' things ~~~~~~ 0% Efficiency in Fucks Given ~~~~~~~ nun wow mom unu
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Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
568
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Posted - 2015.02.12 01:31:35 -
[17] - Quote
Ares Desideratus wrote:I don't understand why the Bhaalgorn is an Armageddon hull. It's not that I don't like the Armageddon hull, it's just that the Cruor and the Ashimmu both have unique hulls, and I think it would be cool if the Bhaalgorn also had a unique hull.
Same with the Vigilant, Vindicator, Worm, Gila, and Rattlesnake. stay away from my gila.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy
Eat dessert first!
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Ares Desideratus
Star Children Of Cain
203
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Posted - 2015.02.12 01:48:47 -
[18] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:Ares Desideratus wrote:I don't understand why the Bhaalgorn is an Armageddon hull. It's not that I don't like the Armageddon hull, it's just that the Cruor and the Ashimmu both have unique hulls, and I think it would be cool if the Bhaalgorn also had a unique hull.
Same with the Vigilant, Vindicator, Worm, Gila, and Rattlesnake. stay away from my gila. Scrub
I'm a creator, preserver, destroyer, I like makin' stuff and doin' things ~~~~~~ 0% Efficiency in Fucks Given ~~~~~~~ nun wow mom unu
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ChromeStriker
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
829
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 08:53:18 -
[19] - Quote
Jack Hayson wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:there is no place for such a noble and maleficent ship. Wormholes mate... wormholes. That place where people still fly things that aren't Ishtars or Tengus. Bhaals are pure awesomeness here.
Specific worm holes I live in a C5 pulsar so get to do the rounds of wh's.... but im yet to see one used in anger.
... See plenty of ishtars and tengu's tho
No Worries
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Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
90
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 13:07:56 -
[20] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Specific worm holes I live in a C5 pulsar so get to do the rounds of wh's.... but im yet to see one used in anger. ... See plenty of ishtars and tengu's tho Yeah, that's one of the reasons why our main doctrine for pulsars is 2 Higgs BS and a Capital. Pulsars are weird places...
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
900
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Posted - 2015.02.12 14:07:59 -
[21] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Sexy Cakes wrote:Gigantic bloody tampon.
Ship only shines with a full set of talismans.
Meh. ahh your a 2bill or bust kinda person lol Why is it so bad otherwise?
Neuting ships are primary targets. Pirate BS are primary targets.
Neuting pirate BS are the most primary target in the game.
Neuting out triage is about the only reason to risk losing a bhaalgorn and it needs cap fed to it from a carrier and a pilot with serious cycle reduction to do that in any decent time frame.
The bhaalgorn is literally the hard counter to a triage carrier (assuming you can field your own triage to feed it cap and keep it alive). Only problem is people don't fly triage except to rep POS's, all the groups are so big and full of cap pilots now they just bring slowcats. At the end of the day with the Armageddon being changed up to be a mini-Bhaalgorn there's really no need to ever bring a Bhaalgorn unless you want the enemy fleet to say 'One time we killed a Bhaalgorn'.
I can see a Bhaalgorn doing decent against Ishtar's and Tengu's with lasers but all the logi in those fleets are cruisers and ain't no battleship gonna neut out cruiser logi (won't ever catch them) so why not just bring an Apoc which is better with lasers than a Bhaal for 1/4 the cost.
Not today spaghetti.
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Stil Harkonnen
Chest Bumpers Oh My Bad
1
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Posted - 2015.02.12 14:52:42 -
[22] - Quote
I understand neuting pirate battleships get primaried all the time....but that's only because the bonuses on the damn thing make it so strong!
My question is: why does the Bhaalgorn's bonuses out class all the other pirate battleships?
Machariel: yes it gets a role bonus making it quick, but other than that it just gets an ok damage bonus. Meh.
Barghest: is ok. gets an ewar bonus, an interesting role bonus, but is pretty shafted on the damage bonus.
Rattlesnake: pretty good. Nice defensive bonus with some mean damage.
Vindicator: Also ok. Mean damage (but this is partly due to hybrids in general, not necessarily the role bonus), and a nice ewar bonus that is arguably close to the Bhaalgorn.
And then we have the Bhaalgorn...
Two different ewar bonuses that are insanely good (Web range on a BS, yes please), and then holy **** the neuts/nos get double bonused!! Able to take several ships out of a fight with just one of its bonused ewar. And then it gets a freaking huge damage role bonus that let's it fit all the ewar without sacrificing dps.
I know the other pirate battleships do decent in their roles, and can do well in the right situations, but the Bhaalgorn's bonuses just put it at least a notch or two above the rest. It can still do damage while also bring incredible amount of force multipliers (ewar) that no other faction can get close to.
Why? Is there something I'm not understanding? |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7324
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 18:38:27 -
[23] - Quote
Stil Harkonnen wrote:Two different ewar bonuses that are insanely good (Web range on a BS, yes please), and then holy **** the neuts/nos get double bonused!! Able to take several ships out of a fight with just one of its bonused ewar. And then it gets a freaking huge damage role bonus that let's it fit all the ewar without sacrificing dps.
... (snip)...
Why? Is there something I'm not understanding? Something that should be pointed out...
That damage role bonus merely increases the effective turrets on the Bhaalgorn to 8... allowing the ship to fit neuts AND damage but without actually adding any more damage. Basically... it has the same "number" of turrets as an Abaddon... but no damage bonus.
Tech 1 battleships can often out-dps this thing. Hell... a gank-fit Vexor can EASILY out-dps a Bhaal (by a fairly good margin too).
In a full tank setup (and you should be using a full tank setup with this ship)... the damage a Bhaalgorn can pump out is fairly anemic for a battleship. Less than 700 dps. That is this ship's primary weakness. It can disable multiple ships via Ewar... but it has difficulty killing anything by itself (even under favorable conditions).
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
26
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Posted - 2015.02.12 19:32:26 -
[24] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:That damage role bonus merely increases the effective turrets on the Bhaalgorn to 8... allowing the ship to fit neuts AND damage but without actually adding any more damage. Basically... it has the same "number" of turrets as an Abaddon... but no damage bonus.
Tech 1 battleships can often out-dps this thing. Hell... a gank-fit Vexor can EASILY out-dps a Bhaal (by a fairly good margin too).
In a full tank setup (and you should be using a full tank setup with this ship)... the damage a Bhaalgorn can pump out is fairly anemic for a battleship. Less than 700 dps.
OK, I'll bite. How is the damage bonus not a damage bonus, if it allows you to fit three other devastating high-slot weapons in addition to a full rack of megapulse lasers? I'll remind you that the T1 Armageddon only fits five lasers and you often have to go down to the dual-heavypulse to make it fit with a tank.
I have a T1 'Geddon setup that gets 806 DPS with navy multifrequency and five ogres, and carries two neuts (total drain -1200), with 120k effective HP. With its only four ogres, the following Bhaalgorn gets 955 DPS, has three heavy neuts (total drain -3150), dual webs at 20km range, and has 130k EHP. This is all with T1 and T2 gear:
[Bhaalgorn, pvp] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x4 Hobgoblin II x5
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
956
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Posted - 2015.02.13 04:17:22 -
[25] - Quote
Had a chat with CCP Rise on the pub crawl about the Bhaalgorn. What I remember him saying was that it was the second least used ship in game. I think I remember us agreeing that it has a pretty cool and unique role though.
Every time I've seen the bhaal used it completely ignored the guns and fit all neuts. That said with curses not showing up on dscan, and the geddon neut range bonus, I'm not quite sure just how often most people will really want to pull the bhaal out. Also note the current low price of a Bhaal. for a long time I feel like it was one of the pirate BS that was worth a lot, although also in limited supply, thanks to the role, and people's willingness to pay for that. Between the exploration changes and the stagnation of nullsec it seems that the farmers have been doing a good job of increasing the supply of more or less all faction/complex loot. So it isn't too surprising to me to see the Bhaalgorn's price where it is now. A consequence of that "cool and unique" role.
@ChainsawPlankto
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ChromeStriker
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
834
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Posted - 2015.02.13 08:20:44 -
[26] - Quote
This is what i mean (albeit in a somewhat round about way)... The Bhaalgorn IS strong, everyone seems to know it... but even if its price has dropped no one is willing to risk one.
There are alternatives if you want neuts in a fleet, most battleships have a utility high slot, and you can throw 2 or 3 Geddons for the price of a Bhaal (assuming minimal pimpage).
Its just sad that such an awesome ship is restricted to the side-lines.
No Worries
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
46
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Posted - 2015.02.13 08:55:50 -
[27] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:This is what i mean (albeit in a somewhat round about way )... The Bhaalgorn IS strong, everyone seems to know it... but even if its price has dropped no one is willing to risk one. There are alternatives if you want neuts in a fleet, most battleships have a utility high slot, and you can throw 2 or 3 Geddons for the price of a Bhaal (assuming minimal pimpage). Its just sad that such an awesome ship is restricted to the side-lines. ... I just dont see how it can be fixed. It already has a huge tank, Web bonus, and neut bonus... all amazing. But what else can you do? Adding damage would make it OP as hell, Speed would i think also be too good, overpowering its other bonuses... anything else would just be tweaks but never enough to change its useage... Maybe nerf all other neuting to really make the Bhaal king again lol
Nerf Geddons!
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SkyFlyer
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
98
|
Posted - 2015.02.13 11:13:32 -
[28] - Quote
People just need to learn to use the bhaalgorn properly and it easily roflstomps ishtars or tengus tbh, fit a nice rack of t2 weapons a feasable tank and web and neut **** all day everyday......
But serious, with the Nos being the old nos on the bhaalgorn you can easily fit 1x Heavy neut 2x heavy nos a full rack of t2 guns and a faction tank and only need 1 cap booster therefor giving you the option of fitting mwd point 2x web giving you that edge over kiters (speaking from experience)
In groups yeah, the curse and geddon is king due to range and no dscan **** but bhaalgorn solo really does work in pvp... |
ChromeStriker
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
834
|
Posted - 2015.02.13 12:16:35 -
[29] - Quote
SkyFlyer wrote:People just need to learn to use the bhaalgorn properly and it easily roflstomps ishtars or tengus tbh, fit a nice rack of t2 weapons a feasable tank and web and neut **** all day everyday......
But serious, with the Nos being the old nos on the bhaalgorn you can easily fit 1x Heavy neut 2x heavy nos a full rack of t2 guns and a faction tank and only need 1 cap booster therefor giving you the option of fitting mwd point 2x web giving you that edge over kiters (speaking from experience)
In groups yeah, the curse and geddon is king due to range and no dscan **** but bhaalgorn solo really does work in pvp...
Well theres a slight problem... lets be honest, how often do you see a solo PvP battleship Maybe a T1 or a Mach... but even thats rare... Solo Pvp Bhaal's are like unicorn eggs
No Worries
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SkyFlyer
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
98
|
Posted - 2015.02.13 17:33:59 -
[30] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:SkyFlyer wrote:People just need to learn to use the bhaalgorn properly and it easily roflstomps ishtars or tengus tbh, fit a nice rack of t2 weapons a feasable tank and web and neut **** all day everyday......
But serious, with the Nos being the old nos on the bhaalgorn you can easily fit 1x Heavy neut 2x heavy nos a full rack of t2 guns and a faction tank and only need 1 cap booster therefor giving you the option of fitting mwd point 2x web giving you that edge over kiters (speaking from experience)
In groups yeah, the curse and geddon is king due to range and no dscan **** but bhaalgorn solo really does work in pvp... Well theres a slight problem... lets be honest, how often do you see a solo PvP battleship Maybe a T1 or a Mach... but even thats rare... Solo Pvp Bhaal's are like unicorn eggs
You clearly don't watch my videos ;) |
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