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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
54
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Posted - 2015.02.11 08:50:34 -
[31] - Quote
I like to be able to go to trade hubs without being shot at by station hugging wardec spammers whose idea of a good fight is dropping 10 vindis on anyone stupid enough to shoot back.
Sitting on a hub 24/7 with active wardecs against every player corp in the game should not be a thing.
My other issue with player corps is how narrowminded a lot of them are. Most just seem to want to live in one little pocket of space stacking ISK and ganking anyone who wanders into their den, or sitting on the local stargate for hours at a time. Doesn't appeal to me. |
Anthar Thebess
862
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Posted - 2015.02.11 09:02:39 -
[32] - Quote
Because Wars are very cheap and imbalanced. If someone is in higsec in 90% of the cases he is interested in pve. Most of the wars is maintained by experienced Null sec players that use higsec alts for some additional fun.
Usually on one side you have players using t1 equipment and 1 kill on KB , on the other side person flying faction ship, using faction and T2 stuff that have 2-3 thousand kills per char.
But this is eve , no one told it is going to be fair |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
479
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Posted - 2015.02.11 09:31:51 -
[33] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Because Wars are very cheap and imbalanced. If someone is in higsec in 90% of the cases he is interested in pve. Most of the wars is maintained by experienced Null sec players that use higsec alts for some additional fun. Usually on one side you have players using t1 equipment and 1 kill on KB , on the other side person flying faction ship, using faction and T2 stuff that have 2-3 thousand kills per char. But this is eve , no one told it is going to be fair
Well fundamentally a game does need to be fair in regards to equal opportunity for all participants but you're right that EVE doesn't really level the playing field through artificial limits like 10v10 or so
Faction warfare pilot and solo/small gang PVP advocate
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
137
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Posted - 2015.02.11 09:35:50 -
[34] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:I think the reasons are: 1. War evasion. 2. Crappy corps for players to join. 3. Solo player. 4. Null Sec using alts to farm ISK because Incursions pay more than anything they can do in null. 5. Made an alt and just forgot it there. 6. Anonymous scouts. 7. Spreading EVE political agendas to quite a few players. >.> I do think that veterans need a push out of the nest rather than an enticement.
8. mercs using npc corps to protect neutral logi 9. gankers using npc corps to protect the bumping machariels 10. people dont like the fact they have to speak on ts and submit api's to every corp they try and join (Trust no one?) so they just stay solo
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Thorav
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.02.11 09:49:52 -
[35] - Quote
Because we want to play by ourselves?
No, im serious, Im surprised that no one else has really expanded on that.
I've been in the NPC corp for 5 years now, and I've never left since I started playing EVE. I have no desire to be small part of a big system. Like f--k, if i I wanted to be a tiny cog in a giant machine of thousands of people, I'd go and work for a financial firm in a cubicle from 9-5.
I, and i suspect, many players, want to make a mark on the game, but i'll be damned if i have to rely on hundreds of other people to get **** done. I will never be able to claim any accomplishments then. I will never kill a titan. I will never hold sovereignty. I realize these unfortunate truths. "So join a corp!" you all say... but then, it wont be ME accomplishing any of those things. I will be the guy who contributes 0.000234% of the damage to that one titan, that one time.
As counter-intuitive as it may initially seem, being in a corporation (read: being in a group in life) robs you of all personal accomplishment. You can't claim anything as being your own doing because you're now relying on others. I want to play video games to escape the social constructs of real life. So f--k, I ain't gonna APPLY and JOIN those very same constructs in the game!
Thats the main reason for me. The other is the elitist, bullshit attitude that plagues EVE. Granted, i realize that its better than a lot of the attitudes that plague most MMO's, but damn can it be annoying. I dont want to serve an FC, who is really just another player, most likely with no real-world tactical knowledge, but who act like gods with self-imposed authority because they're the best at blowing up pixels. I don't want to be forced to use specific, doctrined ship fits, or do specific things that are mandatory.. like holy hell its stupid... MANDATORY ship fits and tasks... in a VIDEO GAME. Nothing in a game should be mandatory, that's what makes it a game.
"But the ship fits are doctrined not because they're trying to force you to do something you dont want, but rather, because they're EFFECTIVE" you all say. Granted, but i should have the right (correction, i DO have the right) to play the game however i want to, fitting my ships however i so choose.
"But then you're jeporadising the mission, and the battle! If you have a ****** fit, you could lead to everyone else losing!"... Guys, its a videogame. Calm down. You should have the agency to do what you want. Real life is where you go if you want to do things that are forced. That isn't what i play for. I am not playing a game only to find out that its really just like real life. That aint fun for me.
"So quit those ****** corps, then!" you say.... but we're talking about WHY players dont join them, so that point is moot in this case.
Lastly, I see no advantages to joining a corp. What am i going to do in goonswarm? All of the ****** things i described above, and the rest will be things i do on my own time. So what, i have access to corporate hangers and corporate wallets and new bases across the universe? Those things dont REALLY matter, and you can get 99% of them from other players in noob corps, if you're nice.
"But dont you want to participate in big fleet battles" No
"But dont you want to hold sovereignty and make a change in the world" Yes, but not at the cost of what's required.
"But dont you want all the help and comradery that comes with being in a corp?" Newsflash, there's no difference in personality between people in corps, and people in the noob corp. You can have the same help and comradery in the noob corp, so long as you're not an ass.
Tl;Dr: I personally dont want to join a corp because i hate the idea of being a small part of a massive entity. That's what real life is for.
I suspect that for other players, it's partly that, and partly because the 'advantages' of being in a corp dont align with the goals and interests of the player, and are thus rendered null and void. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
2305
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Posted - 2015.02.11 09:54:22 -
[36] - Quote
I think there's a fair number of people who hide away in NPC corps because they want to play not-Eve, but, for reasons passing understanding, don't simply cancel their subscriptions and go find a game that they'll really enjoy.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Shin Jan
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2015.02.11 09:55:17 -
[37] - Quote
Because I...I...I didn't pass Pator Tech School exit exam... |
Thorn en Distel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2015.02.11 09:57:49 -
[38] - Quote
Shailagh wrote:Im trying to make ccp money here. They have data that shows people that stay in npc corps quit more often. They said corp ceos dont like recruiting noobs cuz of fear of awox, do you believe this is the main reason?
I believe people stay in npc corps (and therefor quit more often) to evade wars.
Are wars the most dangerous aspect to retention (players staying in npc corps) and therefore should be nerfed to increase player corp levels and retention?
Nerf wars to save the noobs and make people join player corps to increase retention and ccps wallet?
Outside there, in the MMORPG world, I'm a member of several PVP centric multi-game guilds. Over here, I keep all my characters in NPC guilds and hell will freeze over before I join a player corp or bring other guild members here and form my own.
If you want to know why:
- I am nobody's meatshield - No one dictates to me what to do, what to fit and what to train - No one but no one gets my API keys. Your security be hanged. - I despise awoxing - I despise the fact everyone can wardec everyone else, without the decced corp getting a chance to refuse. I've heard about and actually seen new player corps and economy players get ganked left and right because of wardecs by 'professionals'. It's sickening. In my book, that's not PVP, that's just being a complete bully taking advantage of a bad game mechanic.
So er, yeah, I'll do my own thing and stay away from player corps.
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Sagrima Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.02.11 09:57:52 -
[39] - Quote
Maybe it is just something about RealLife(TM). I would love to join a player corp, but i simply can't find one. I have a job and family, so I spend about three to six ours a week online. Most of the time in the evenings and with breaks (kids tend to wake up at some time...). So, who ever would take me into a corp must cope with these times. Ah, by the way: I hate teamspeak. ;-) During fleet ops it is no question to use it, but there are plenty of corps that require me to instantly join teamspeak, when I enter the game.
Sounds like the fate of a "casual"... |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
124
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Posted - 2015.02.11 10:13:35 -
[40] - Quote
This becomes an unexpectedly good discussion ...
The reasons why I'm staying in an NPC corp were already named by others. The main point for me is ... independence ... I want to be free to decide anytime, what, where, when, and with whom I do stuff in the game. I know if I would join a player corp it would suck me into obligations and responsibility - which is not bad and I won't exclude it for the future - but atm I don't have the time and patience for that.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
103
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Posted - 2015.02.11 10:19:13 -
[41] - Quote
Shailagh wrote:Im trying to make ccp money here. They have data that shows people that stay in npc corps quit more often. They said corp ceos dont like recruiting noobs cuz of fear of awox, do you believe this is the main reason?
I believe people stay in npc corps (and therefor quit more often) to evade wars.
Are wars the most dangerous aspect to retention (players staying in npc corps) and therefore should be nerfed to increase player corp levels and retention?
Nerf wars to save the noobs and make people join player corps to increase retention and ccps wallet?
from a CEO's perspective, there was only ever one big issue. Not money, not 'what we do or where', not keeping people happy. With the right care these take care of themselves.
It's Recruitment. Two fold.
1) Finding enough people to recruit. Expeirenced or not was never an issue (Though it may be for some). 2) Fnding those that would stay in corp and be active within the corp.
Those two things are the hardest things in EVE imo. Awoxing can be dealt with quite easily (aside from the HC long term sleepers etc). Recruiting noobs is for HIgh Sec corps anyway (mostly) and awxoing shouldn't be the biggest concern. From a CEO perspective you can tell if a noob is going to fit in within a few days (ideally within a few minutes of the interview in all honesty). The real probelm is that the connection between noobs and corps from the noobs point of view just isnt' there. Plus, 'everyone wants to be in their own corp and weild all the power' is the single biggest issue. So many people join a corp, then want to start their own so they can playwith the corp logo, assign roles, and be all powerful. Essentially, too many corps, too few people, and far too many chiefs and not enough indians. (hmm, that spelling of Indians looks wrong, but wahetever)
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Sagrima Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.02.11 10:27:24 -
[42] - Quote
Quote:[...]within a few minutes of the interview in all honesty
This is another reason. I am not applying for a job here. I want to play a game. I have no need, interest or time for interviews... As I understand the corp roles, you can define very clearly what a new corp member can do. So just give him the absolut minimum access until you are sure of him.
This is definitely a show stopper for people like me. |
Ed MarKeen
East Domain Inc.
17
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Posted - 2015.02.11 10:28:02 -
[43] - Quote
This seems one of the reasons:
http://i.imgur.com/m6p6g5o.png |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
103
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Posted - 2015.02.11 10:32:35 -
[44] - Quote
Sagrima Ellecon wrote:Quote:[...]within a few minutes of the interview in all honesty This is another reason. I am not applying for a job here. I want to play a game. I have no need, interest or time for interviews... As I understand the corp roles, you can define very clearly what a new corp member can do. So just give him the absolut minimum access until you are sure of him. This is definitely a show stopper for people like me.
lol. interview .... ok, that's too formal a word ... it's a chat, to see if you're on the same kind of wave length, nothing more. ;-)
You need people who will get along.
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Jasmine Deer
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2015.02.11 11:27:53 -
[45] - Quote
Thorav wrote: I have no desire to be small part of a big system. Like f--k, if i I wanted to be a tiny cog in a giant machine of thousands of people, I'd go and work for a financial firm in a cubicle from 9-5.
Sort of related to the above is that some of us play Eve to relax.
After a long day putting up with managers, bosses, foremen and assorted lunatics in positions of power in the workplace the last thing we need is to be bossed around in a computer game and pay for the privilege.
Reminds me why I was so long out of a player corp. One week it was a mandatory CTA, next week we had to stay docked unless we were in fleet. Don't fly unless you have a scout, fly this fit, please explain why you lost your ship (looks bad on our killboard), get on Teamspeak NOW !, etc
Having said that there are plenty of corps that cater to casual players and newly formed corps that are just happy to have recruits and make no demands. Not that hard to find if you look, and if you make a mistake you can always leave. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
196
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Posted - 2015.02.11 11:41:39 -
[46] - Quote
Nalia White wrote:well i think it's normal that so many players will leave eve. they come for the space theme but will leave once they get to know the harsh mechanics of the game... if you now try to keep those players in you will have to change eve and that's not good in my book... the last bastion of a true game!
it seems like ccp is currently trying to create a highsec in which these players can coexist, but that is a dangerous endevour... it can be a chance though... maybe after some time some of those players that would have left eve earlier will taste blood and become like the rest of the bittervets :)
edit: and don't forget that many alts will be in npc corps because players will try to disconnect them from their main.
but these players you speak of are already in the game. in an NPC corp. this HIGH sec you speak of already exists. so CCP is thinking about letting them name themselves and have a channel related to it.
where's the problem?
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Kousaka Otsu Shigure
37
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Posted - 2015.02.11 11:46:53 -
[47] - Quote
Renaming the title to "Why do we place alts in npc corps?"..
I actually enumerated a list of various activities, and realizing that the theme was generally the same, i'll TLDR:
To enjoy the anonymity/wardec-free perks of being in the NPC corp. Note that everyone can enjoy(abuse) this, not just carebears/new players/etc.
Archiver, Software Developer and Data Slave
Current Project Status: Collating Forum Posts - Fourth Pass
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Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
104
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Posted - 2015.02.11 12:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jasmine Deer wrote:Thorav wrote: I have no desire to be small part of a big system. Like f--k, if i I wanted to be a tiny cog in a giant machine of thousands of people, I'd go and work for a financial firm in a cubicle from 9-5.
Sort of related to the above is that some of us play Eve to relax. After a long day putting up with managers, bosses, foremen and assorted lunatics in positions of power in the workplace the last thing we need is to be bossed around in a computer game and pay for the privilege. Reminds me why I was so long out of a player corp. One week it was a mandatory CTA, next week we had to stay docked unless we were in fleet. Don't fly unless you have a scout, fly this fit, please explain why you lost your ship (looks bad on our killboard), get on Teamspeak NOW !, etc Having said that there are plenty of corps that cater to casual players and newly formed corps that are just happy to have recruits and make no demands. Not that hard to find if you look, and if you make a mistake you can always leave.
this ... there are different corps that have different demands on their mebers for different reasons.
0.0 is serious stuff, and you need to be organised if you're going to be successfull. That means, CTA, discipline, explusion if non compliant. (though even within these parameters there can still be fun, friendship and flexibility with good corps).
HIgh and lo sec corps have the freedom to be either totally llberal in demands (many have none) or act as strcit as if they were in 0.0. And here, the choice is yours. :)
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Merouk Baas
901
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Posted - 2015.02.11 13:01:53 -
[49] - Quote
The other side of the "it's too much like work" debate is that CCP only provides the sandbox and it's that poor CEO's job to fill your evenings with all the fun that you can handle, and he too has to pay for the privilege. So maybe he feels he has the right to set some rules and call some CTA's.
There are too many junk corps and too few good ones, and it's difficult for players to find good corps that match their play style, and it's difficult for corp recruiters to find players who will fit with the corp. |
Cynthia Sinn
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.02.11 13:14:22 -
[50] - Quote
I stay in a NPC corp because The Scope is best Scope.
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Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
104
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Posted - 2015.02.11 13:24:05 -
[51] - Quote
Cynthia Sinn wrote:I stay in a NPC corp because The Scope is best Scope.
Feels like I'm at work, reveiwing an IT project. Ugh ... hate 'scope; ... whats' in scope, what's out fo scope ... just say what you're going to do ... such a pathetic appendix to a project.
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Kaelynne Rose
WTB Somalians
32
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Posted - 2015.02.11 14:13:04 -
[52] - Quote
So erry single person here can agree that what ccp said "awox fears" are NOT THE REASON either people stay in npc corps or that ceos dont recruit more???
Good job doing ur research before nerfs ccp. I just did ur research for you in 1 day, NO players dont hide in npc corps cuz of awox fears. Nice "necessary for retention and money" card for the nerf reason though. |
Intar Medris
Viziam Amarr Empire
222
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Posted - 2015.02.11 14:29:00 -
[53] - Quote
Because they are war dodging carebears with an antisocial personality disorders who play a MMO, but don't want to deal with other people.
I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
712
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Posted - 2015.02.11 14:40:46 -
[54] - Quote
Going by this thread, I'd say that because 50% of them have really serious misconceptions about what being in a player corp is like
So, lack of good education. |
Shin Jan
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2015.02.11 14:45:36 -
[55] - Quote
Intar Medris wrote:Because they are war dodging carebears with an antisocial personality disorders who play a MMO, but don't want to deal with other people.
1. I don't want to be ordered around 2. I don't want to help 3. I have RL friends, don't need some online. 4. I don't want to be taxed 5. I don't want to hear your ugly voice through TS 6. I only interact with ppl when I PVP, ransom or do business. 7. I don't need anything else, your corp is only worth investing my time if I can go up to director and steal your heritage |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
907
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Posted - 2015.02.11 14:54:03 -
[56] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:I think the reasons are: 1. War evasion. 2. Crappy corps for players to join. 3. Solo player. 4. Null Sec using alts to farm ISK because Incursions pay more than anything they can do in null. 5. Made an alt and just forgot it there. 6. Anonymous scouts. 7. Spreading EVE political agendas to quite a few players. >.> I do think that veterans need a push out of the nest rather than an enticement. 8. mercs using npc corps to protect neutral logi 9. gankers using npc corps to protect the bumping machariels 10. people dont like the fact they have to speak on ts and submit api's to every corp they try and join (Trust no one?) so they just stay solo +10Tipa Riot wrote:This becomes an unexpectedly good discussion ...
The reasons why I'm staying in an NPC corp were already named by others. The main point for me is ... independence ... I want to be free to decide anytime, what, where, when, and with whom I do stuff in the game. I know if I would join a player corp it would suck me into obligations and responsibility - which is not bad and I won't exclude it for the future - but atm I don't have the time and patience for that. You regularly stroll down and as a matter of routine to an area of null sec, to shoot at players, where they follow the belief of independance to infuriating levels.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
73
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Posted - 2015.02.11 14:56:29 -
[57] - Quote
Lupe Meza wrote:The better question is why don't players join player corps?
This really is the crux of the matter. The problem isn't people staying in NPC corps. It's people not joining player corporations. And honestly, if they're going to stay in highsec, why should they? What possible motivation could they have to suddenly put themselves at exponentially more risk for no real gain in the rewards available?
Personally, I fell that anyone who joins a strictly highsec corporation with other real life people is probably a masochist.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
140
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Posted - 2015.02.11 15:39:43 -
[58] - Quote
being in a player corp aint as bad as everyone makes out, yeah you submit api keys but a good corp builds tools for you to use with your api and awoxing is a thing so they are just looking out for the rest of the corps interests.
doctrines are there for a strategic point (people actually research the best fits for any situation) being part of a team and going for big and small fights is great fun and actually being a valued part of a fleet (logi/ewar/tackle/links/scouts etc) is rewarding.
most corps wont force you to do things you don't want to and kitchen sink fleets are fun and are a thing in most corps too.
A slight different question, why join a highsec player corp if you can have the protection and freedom of a player low/null corp?
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
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Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
106
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Posted - 2015.02.11 15:59:44 -
[59] - Quote
Shin Jan wrote:Intar Medris wrote:Because they are war dodging carebears with an antisocial personality disorders who play a MMO, but don't want to deal with other people. 1. I don't want to be ordered around 2. I don't want to help 3. I have RL friends, don't need some online. 4. I don't want to be taxed 5. I don't want to hear your ugly voice through TS 6. I only interact with ppl when I PVP, ransom or do business. 7. I don't need anything else, your corp is only worth investing my time if I can go up to director and steal your heritage
You're practically by definition who EVE is not designed for ... lol
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Shailagh
WTB Somalians
88
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Posted - 2015.02.11 16:06:44 -
[60] - Quote
Kaelynne Rose wrote:So erry single person here can agree that what ccp said "awox fears" are NOT THE REASON either people stay in npc corps or that ceos dont recruit more???
Good job doing ur research before nerfs ccp. I just did ur research for you in 1 day, NO players dont hide in npc corps cuz of awox fears. Nice "necessary for retention and money" card for the nerf reason though.
Again this is the reason behind the awox nerf. Errybody in npc corps are worthless, soon to be quitters in ccps eyes. They have said so over and over. They hate you and think you will quit if u stay in npc corps. |
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