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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9717
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Posted - 2015.02.12 14:31:20 -
[271] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Here we go yet again, folk are not playing the way I want them to, so Eve is dying.
If only CCP would make folk play the way I want them to, the game would have zillions more active accounts.
Don't like null-sec don't go there.
Don't like lo-sec don't go there.
Don't like worm-holes, don't go there.
Don't like hi-sec don't go there.
Yea! it's not like EVE is a one shard game where everything in interconnected. So sec you high sec server guys, im going to the null server where nothing you can do has an affect on me.
Oh....wait.....
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Josef Djugashvilis
2879
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Posted - 2015.02.12 14:34:38 -
[272] - Quote
You are so right Jenn a Whine, it is indeed all interconnected.
I make isk running missions in hi-sec so that I can lose it in lo-sec pvp.
The more my income is reduced in hi-sec, the less I can affford to lose in lo-sec.
Oh...wait...
This is not a signature.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9718
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Posted - 2015.02.12 14:39:48 -
[273] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:You are so right Jenn a Whine, it is indeed all interconnected.
I make isk running missions in hi-sec so that I can lose it in lo-sec pvp.
The more my income is reduced in hi-sec, the less I can affford to lose in lo-sec.
Oh...wait...
You're welcome, Josef DOUCHEgashvilis.
So, just so we are clear, the risk reward balance is perfectly ok because without it you might actually have to 'gasp' make the isk to lose ships in low sec, FROM low sec?
It is this kind of selfishness that leads to these kinds of crap discussions. what;'s important is what works best for the game, not any one individual or group.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
604
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Posted - 2015.02.12 14:40:03 -
[274] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Black Pedro wrote:nadir, and other smart stuff You had me at 'nadir'. You actually convinced me, I understand my own point of view is biased because of my personal playstyle (atm): make ISK manufacturing and trading - though not in highsec, ugh! - and spend it on glorious, but mindless PVP. Indeed the meaningful-spaceship-conflict-over-resources part of EVE should be preserved and enhanced. I see why highsec ISK-making deserves a nerf, but more than that let's hope the rest of New Eden gets buffs in meaning and value. Actually that would work too. Buffing the hell out of the rest of the spaces might play havoc with the economy, but would be a way to fix the imbalance without touching highsec.
I think a slight toning down of ISK in highsec (especially incursions), and a good buff of income elsewhere would go a long way to draw people away from highsec again. Throw in a slight increase in risk perhaps from NPCs (sleepers podding players ) and removing the faction police (Empires losing control ), and fix wardecs (and add a social corp to keep the new/casual players safe), and you might even have things back on track.
Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
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Josef Djugashvilis
2880
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Posted - 2015.02.12 14:41:05 -
[275] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:You are so right Jenn a Whine, it is indeed all interconnected.
I make isk running missions in hi-sec so that I can lose it in lo-sec pvp.
The more my income is reduced in hi-sec, the less I can affford to lose in lo-sec.
Oh...wait... You're welcome, Josef DOUCHEgashvilis. So, just so we are clear, the risk reward balance is perfectly ok because without it you might actually have to 'gasp' make the isk to lose ships in low sec, FROM low sec? It is this kind of selfishness that leads to these kinds of crap discussions. what;'s important is what works best for the game, not any one individual or group.
Lordy, Jenn...
This is not a signature.
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Anthar Thebess
863
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Posted - 2015.02.12 14:42:34 -
[276] - Quote
At least in nullsec you can shoot to every one you want.
Can flipping still works, but guys in exhumers run leaving their cans |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9720
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Posted - 2015.02.12 14:47:19 -
[277] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote: Actually that would work too. Buffing the hell out of the rest of the spaces might play havoc with the economy, but would be a way to fix the imbalance without touching highsec.
High sec people, in their zeal to preserve their advantages under an unbalanced system, always suggest this same thing (don't nerf my high sec, buff everything else). It seems their greed blinds them to elementary school level economics: buffing everything else has the same net effect as nerfing the one thing that is the problem.
All of which is moot. A few years ago, CCP buffed null sec anomalies using an 'EHP per isk' formula that resulted in a specific class of anomalies (Forsaken Hubs) being able to generate 500 million isk per hour if you use a Titan paired with a Scimitar (or even just a single super carrier). The results on the economy were swift and vicious. CCP had to quick-nerf everything about it to prevent New Eden becoming "Space Zimbabwe". Faction Warfare pve rewards damn near did the same thing.
And yet the high sec people (in their selfishness) think that repeating this terrible mistake that would screw ALL of us is preferable to simply bringing high sec pve (incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, COSMOS farming etc) into proper line. Goes to show that greed and selfishness overpower reason every single time. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1579
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 14:56:10 -
[278] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Black Pedro wrote: Actually that would work too. Buffing the hell out of the rest of the spaces might play havoc with the economy, but would be a way to fix the imbalance without touching highsec.
High sec people, in their zeal to preserve their advantages under an unbalanced system, always suggest this same thing (don't nerf my high sec, buff everything else). It seems their greed blinds them to elementary school level economics: buffing everything else has the same net effect as nerfing the one thing that is the problem. All of which is moot. A few years ago, CCP buffed null sec anomalies using an 'EHP per isk' formula that resulted in a specific class of anomalies (Forsaken Hubs) being able to generate 500 million isk per hour if you use a Titan paired with a Scimitar (or even just a single super carrier). The results on the economy were switch and vicious. CCP had to quick-nerf everything about it to prevent New Eden becoming "Space Zimbabwe". Faction Warfare pve rewards damn near did the same thing. And yet the high sec people (in their selfishness) think that repeating this terrible mistake that would screw ALL of us is preferable to simply bringing high sec pve (incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, COSMOS farming etc) into proper line. Goes to show that greed and selfishness overpower reason every single time.
Nerfing blitzing of regular mission would not be that hard and the same is true for incursion but blitzing burner? I though they had very few ships in the first place so it would be hard to nerf doing them fast. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
2309
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 14:56:33 -
[279] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I make isk running missions in hi-sec so that I can lose it in lo-sec pvp.
Sure you do.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Lupe Meza
Hedion University Amarr Empire
64
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Posted - 2015.02.12 14:56:51 -
[280] - Quote
Well I tend to avoid most player sites for news but may check out the conference on youtube if someone has a timestamp for that particular bit.
If their solution to the issue is to incorporate anew tool to positively reinforce and place incentives on behavior they feel is more desireable that's fine. It is more of a constuctive solution than strong arming a player into playing a particular way of playing by instead offering an attractive new option.
Quote: Proving definitively this point would require statistics that CCP hasn't released.
Playing the game is all the game a while is all the proof you need, as well as the "lawyering up" nature of this statement. I'd be hard pressed to find someone say that it isn't true,or even probably true.
Suffice to say it doesn't really matter since I know CCP is fully aware of player habits and trends; it is just curious as to why there is usually such uproar when they make changes having these unknowable quantities at their disposal, and having a vested interest in improving their product, so many claim these same maneuvers are to the detriment of EVE. Based on things that they can't prove definitely that would require statistics CCP hasn't released ironically.
Quote:Anecdotally though, I have heard of many a lowsec, wormhole or even nullsec players who have an "Incursion alt" that they use to make thier ISK in highsec. CCP themselves acknowledges this may be a problem ( CSM 9 Summer Minutes, page 125). If players are preferring to run incursions in highsec to earn ISK rather than stay in lowsec or the wormhole where they live to make an income, there is clearly a problem with the risk vs. reward balance of the game. If someone from CCP says the statistics don't match my experiences, then I will stand corrected.
And I say that is a byproduct and consequence of null renting out their space, forming huge alliances preventing fights and the possibility to get more resources and content for their own members. So naturally they flock to High to find just about anything to do or make any money at all because there are only so many rats and anomalies to go around. Of course I can't definitely prove this since I don't have access to CCP's data. They don't return my calls. But let's just pretend it's true.
The solution then is to not so much nerf incursions to force them to scurry back to bear it up in Null, the solution is to examine how SOV works; maybe power projection, how difficult it is to hold space....and maybe the other stuff sorts itself out. Which I expect is exactly what they are doing.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
177
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Posted - 2015.02.12 14:58:04 -
[281] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
And yet the high sec people (in their selfishness) think that repeating this terrible mistake that would screw ALL of us is preferable to simply bringing high sec pve (incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, COSMOS farming etc) into proper line. Goes to show that greed and selfishness overpower reason every single time.
good thing most of those things you listed are available in low sec and some even in null sec. along with someof them having greater rewards |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9720
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 15:05:43 -
[282] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Nerfing blitzing of regular mission would not be that hard and the same is true for incursion but blitzing burner? I though they had very few ships in the first place so it would be hard to nerf doing them fast.
Burner missions are blitzed the exact same way lvl 5 (and really all level missions) are. get super high standings, have alt in fleet (and make sure you are set to share rewards, so as you compelte missions the alt gets standings but never any penalties for declining missions), decline missions you don't want, do missions that can be done in a matter of minutes.
Where burners are different is the faction loot drop chance plus the fact that every single one of them can be done in less than 2 minutes with a single frig sized ship.
You can do 250-300 mil per hour doing burner missions for a corp like Sister of EVE playing the "yo-yo standings" game with an alt. Why would anyone win their right mind risk 2 bil worth of carrier ratting in nul when you can risk less than 100 mil in a Jaguar or Daredevil and make better isk. The actual answer is "ignorance and lazyness", null ratters are usually unaware of how to make better isk or simply can't be arsed because undocking a carrier and warping to an anom is easy even if it does pay less.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9721
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Posted - 2015.02.12 15:07:09 -
[283] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
And yet the high sec people (in their selfishness) think that repeating this terrible mistake that would screw ALL of us is preferable to simply bringing high sec pve (incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, COSMOS farming etc) into proper line. Goes to show that greed and selfishness overpower reason every single time.
good thing most of those things you listed are available in low sec and some even in null sec. along with someof them having greater rewards
And greater danger. Which is why High sec is the only place that has stable incursion communities flying 5 billion isk ships where as most low and null incursions go un-done. The point isn't the profit, it's profit + safety. High sec has too much safety for the amount of isk you can make.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14961
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Posted - 2015.02.12 15:09:27 -
[284] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
And yet the high sec people (in their selfishness) think that repeating this terrible mistake that would screw ALL of us is preferable to simply bringing high sec pve (incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, COSMOS farming etc) into proper line. Goes to show that greed and selfishness overpower reason every single time.
good thing most of those things you listed are available in low sec and some even in null sec. along with someof them having greater rewards
such as?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2311
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Posted - 2015.02.12 15:11:14 -
[285] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lady Rift wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
And yet the high sec people (in their selfishness) think that repeating this terrible mistake that would screw ALL of us is preferable to simply bringing high sec pve (incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, COSMOS farming etc) into proper line. Goes to show that greed and selfishness overpower reason every single time.
good thing most of those things you listed are available in low sec and some even in null sec. along with someof them having greater rewards such as?
You know, ~things~ and stuff.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
604
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 15:11:54 -
[286] - Quote
Lupe Meza wrote: The solution then is to not so much nerf incursions to force them to scurry back to bear it up in Null, the solution is to examine how SOV works; maybe power projection, how difficult it is to hold space....and maybe the other stuff sorts itself out. Which I expect is exactly what they are doing.
No, the solution is to nerf Incusion income so rational players are not forced to come back to highsec to make ISK as it is the most efficient way.
I suspect you are right though. From the minutes it is clear CCP knows this is a problem, but is probably holding out until the sov rework and the player-built stargates thing goes online. These are massive changes to the game and will significantly influence where players choose to live and earn ISK.
Just so we are clear though, I am not saying we should remove Incursions from the game - in fact I think the collaborative and competitive aspects make them better PvE content than most. They just pay far too much in highsec for the small (no?) amount of risk and are drawing players back from the other spaces because of that.
Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
177
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Posted - 2015.02.12 15:16:43 -
[287] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lady Rift wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
And yet the high sec people (in their selfishness) think that repeating this terrible mistake that would screw ALL of us is preferable to simply bringing high sec pve (incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, COSMOS farming etc) into proper line. Goes to show that greed and selfishness overpower reason every single time.
good thing most of those things you listed are available in low sec and some even in null sec. along with someof them having greater rewards such as?
incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing,
L5 carrier blitzing received a huge buff with the limit to how far others can jump. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9723
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Posted - 2015.02.12 15:19:14 -
[288] - Quote
admiral root wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lady Rift wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
And yet the high sec people (in their selfishness) think that repeating this terrible mistake that would screw ALL of us is preferable to simply bringing high sec pve (incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, COSMOS farming etc) into proper line. Goes to show that greed and selfishness overpower reason every single time.
good thing most of those things you listed are available in low sec and some even in null sec. along with someof them having greater rewards such as? You know, ~things~ and stuff.
In addition, the things that poster claims have 'greater rewards' actually don't.
Incursions are a great example. Low and null incursion pay more per site. BUT no one in their right mind would take a fleet of 5 billion isk vindicators and nightmares to low sec to do them like they do in high.
So the fact that you HAVE to use lesser ships in low and null means that it's actually High Sec incursions that (for all practical purposes) pay better, because you have the safety to do them in uber-kill boats. |
Josef Djugashvilis
2882
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Posted - 2015.02.12 15:22:41 -
[289] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I make isk running missions in hi-sec so that I can lose it in lo-sec pvp. Sure you do.
God forbid that I am an alt.
Are you brand spanking new to this game, or just...
This is not a signature.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9723
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Posted - 2015.02.12 15:22:49 -
[290] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lady Rift wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
And yet the high sec people (in their selfishness) think that repeating this terrible mistake that would screw ALL of us is preferable to simply bringing high sec pve (incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, COSMOS farming etc) into proper line. Goes to show that greed and selfishness overpower reason every single time.
good thing most of those things you listed are available in low sec and some even in null sec. along with someof them having greater rewards such as? incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, L5 carrier blitzing received a huge buff with the limit to how far others can jump.
L5 carrier blitzing reqires a capital ship to make slightly more than you could make using a FRIGATE sized ship blitzing burners in high sec. Low sec burner blitzing is good, till you get stuffed by a sebo Thrasher gate camp.
And see my previous post about incursions. Low and null do NOT pay better than high sec incursions because of the ships used. The existence of CONCORD is what makes high sec incursions as profitable as they are. My ISN or TVP shiney fleet Vindicators cost 5 bil and I'd never use them outside high sec. |
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2311
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Posted - 2015.02.12 15:24:06 -
[291] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:admiral root wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I make isk running missions in hi-sec so that I can lose it in lo-sec pvp. Sure you do. God forbid that I am an alt. Are you brand spanking new to this game, or just...
Yup, totally new to the game. I couldn't possibly have been implying that you should post with your main.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14961
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Posted - 2015.02.12 15:33:12 -
[292] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:
incursions
They dont get run in null anywhere near to the scale and efficiency as in highsec. Most are abandoned.
Lady Rift wrote: mission blitzing
Missions don't exist in the vast bulk of null.
Lady Rift wrote: burner mission blitzing,
cant be blitzed.
Lady Rift wrote: L5 carrier blitzing received a huge buff with the limit to how far others can jump.
They die to local dreads rather than PL's.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
283
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Posted - 2015.02.12 16:04:53 -
[293] - Quote
A lot of hurt in this thread.... and much foaming of the mouth. This does not get us anywhere.
As for these foaming at the mouth comments about social corps. READ THE MINUTES. You are just making it up on what you think its going to be. And your wrong.
Over all there seems to be a lot of hurt over stuff not staying the same. I mean where on that graph is the ruling on hyperdunking? Or do you just have an axe to grind.
Personally i have ganked. I have been ganked. I spend time in low, null, WH space and highsec. We even tried making money ganking. It is no where near as good as a C4 with a C3 static. But can be profitable all the same.
I want balance. A balance between risk and reward. Ganking shouldn't be too easy. That is stupid. Highsec shouldn't be too safe. I don't really think NPC corps are great, but my Freighter alt is in one because its stupid not to be. Wardec mechanics defo need some work. Don't think many people disagree.
Change to what? not back to the older ways. But perhaps to a better way. How about some kind of purchasable kill-right on an single person? Could be that its not transferable, or that it only activates a limited engagement timer. Could make bounty hunting a thing. I really don't know. But at the same time we don't want have full on grieffing being a thing. Balance.
But silly things like ventures as a nurf to gankers... Seriously? You lose credibility with that kind of statement. What putting a 2DPS gun on a rookie ship also a nurf to highsec ganks? Get real.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
177
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Posted - 2015.02.12 16:06:57 -
[294] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Lady Rift wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lady Rift wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
And yet the high sec people (in their selfishness) think that repeating this terrible mistake that would screw ALL of us is preferable to simply bringing high sec pve (incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, COSMOS farming etc) into proper line. Goes to show that greed and selfishness overpower reason every single time.
good thing most of those things you listed are available in low sec and some even in null sec. along with someof them having greater rewards such as? incursions, mission blitzing, burner mission blitzing, L5 carrier blitzing received a huge buff with the limit to how far others can jump. L5 carrier blitzing reqires a capital ship to make slightly more than you could make using a FRIGATE sized ship blitzing burners in high sec. Low sec burner blitzing is good, till you get stuffed by a sebo Thrasher gate camp. And see my previous post about incursions. Low and null do NOT pay better than high sec incursions because of the ships used. The existence of CONCORD is what makes high sec incursions as profitable as they are. My ISN or TVP shiney fleet Vindicators cost 5 bil and I'd never use them outside high sec.
burners are also in low sec. |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
719
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Posted - 2015.02.12 16:11:46 -
[295] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote: Over all there seems to be a lot of hurt over stuff not staying the same. I mean where on that graph is the ruling on hyperdunking?
Regardless of your view on the OP, CCP not nerfing something doesn't count as a buff you know
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1579
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Posted - 2015.02.12 16:21:20 -
[296] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote: Over all there seems to be a lot of hurt over stuff not staying the same. I mean where on that graph is the ruling on hyperdunking?
Regardless of your view on the OP, CCP not nerfing something doesn't count as a buff you know
While your statement is true, the introduction of the bowhead could be seen as an unintended buff to ganking. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2619
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Posted - 2015.02.12 16:24:43 -
[297] - Quote
More freighters died over the past year in hisec then in any prior year in eve's history. Just a simple fact, don't have any skin in the game myself - never suicide ganked or been ganked.
Seems like there's a lot of persecution complex in this thread. "I'm being oppressed!" and so forth... |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
177
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Posted - 2015.02.12 16:25:04 -
[298] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lady Rift wrote:
incursions
They dont get run in null anywhere near to the scale and efficiency as in highsec. Most are abandoned. Lady Rift wrote: mission blitzing
Missions don't exist in the vast bulk of null. Lady Rift wrote: burner mission blitzing,
cant be blitzed due to things such as Sebo sabers and nasty little things called bubbles. Lady Rift wrote: L5 carrier blitzing received a huge buff with the limit to how far others can jump.
They die to local dreads rather than PL's.
High sec is vulnerable to ganks. I just watched an incursion go from 0% to poped in less than a day in dek. could of farmed that a little more with the vindi's and expensive ships that where used to run it.
They do exist. Just because its not in the area you are living in doesn't mean they don't. its like saying SOE agents don't exist in the vast bulk of high sec. while ignoring that they do.
can be blitzed, low doesn't have bubbles they are only an issue in null.
get friendly with your locals or pay more attention to local. At worse mjd ravens can run them quickly enough.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2315
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Posted - 2015.02.12 16:37:04 -
[299] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:I just watched an incursion go from 0% to poped in less than a day in dek.
They got the pontif involved, huh? If an incursion is steamrolled in sov nullsec it's because they're a pain in the ass. If it's in a less-used constellation it's more likely to fester for a week while everyone avoids it.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1579
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Posted - 2015.02.12 16:40:57 -
[300] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Lady Rift wrote:I just watched an incursion go from 0% to poped in less than a day in dek. They got the pontif involved, huh? If an incursion is steamrolled in sov nullsec it's because they're a pain in the ass. If it's in a less-used constellation it's more likely to fester for a week while everyone avoids it.
It will probably happen more now that the jump range is less than it used to be but you won't see farming like in high sec. |
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