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Pod Panik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2015.02.11 00:41:50 -
[1] - Quote
Hello all,
Is there a significant skill requirement difference between piloting a Cruiser and a Battlecruiser? They seem to use the same types of weapons and modules...
Would it be a stretch to directly go for Battlecruiser V instead of lingering to go through Cruiser V before?
Thanks |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
979
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Posted - 2015.02.11 00:46:58 -
[2] - Quote
understand what each ship class is for and their advantages/disadvantages first.
Battlecruisers are bigger (take more damage) and slower.
In exchange they have higher hitpoints and more damage.
Also getting cruiser to 5 unlocks a far wider variety of ships compared to BC 5 |
Pod Panik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2015.02.11 00:59:13 -
[3] - Quote
I didn't realized that size and speed made such a difference...
And would you say its better to aim for a T2 Cruiser (even if I am far from being able to afford them) then jumping to a Battlecruiser?
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
979
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Posted - 2015.02.11 01:07:14 -
[4] - Quote
depends on your income. T2 cruisers cost roughly twice as much as a battlecruiser.
BCs are good starting platforms for level 3 missions |
Paranoid Loyd
3834
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Posted - 2015.02.11 01:20:34 -
[5] - Quote
Gnosis is relatively expensive compared to other BCs but will allow you to use a BC for level 3s while you train up your cruiser skills. (you don't need BC skills to fly a Gnosis)
It's a pretty heavy loss to take for a noob though so keep that in mind if you choose this path.
I recently started a new character and have been using Gnosis extensively so I can train other things, but I already know what I am doing so it's hard to say if it is a wise path for a noob, that said it is the most fun I've had running missions, with low skills you barely have enough tank to survive, got deep into structure a few times, actually made things somewhat exciting. Once my tanking and cap skills were trained, it got boring again so I have moved on to other uses, been having mild success in C1 wormholes.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Memphis Baas
139
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Posted - 2015.02.11 01:54:37 -
[6] - Quote
Battlecruisers are more expensive than cruisers. This means you should have more trained support skills by the time you get to them, because losing a cruiser because you didn't have that extra 5% of armor hurts less than losing a battlecruiser for the same reason.
Size and speed do make a difference sometimes. For example, it takes longer to align and warp out in a battlecruiser if you're in trouble. So, again, more likely that you'll lose a more expensive ship.
Also, look at the ships chart in-game, there are several variants of "advanced" cruisers (recons, HACs, HICs) etc., and fewer variants of "advanced" battlecruisers (command ships), so as it's been mentioned above, Cruiser V will unlock more future ships than Battlecruiser V.
There are some skills that should be trained to 5, but typically the rule is "don't train to 5 unless it unlocks something that you want." Look at the Recommended Skills tab for each ship to give you an idea of where you should be with the support skills for each ship class.
EDIT: As far as what's better to aim for, it depends on what you want to do. Level 3 PVE missions can be done in battlecruisers, as can some of the various PVP types. The tech 2 cruisers, on the other hand, have very specialized roles in group PVP; for example, recons can jam from long distances, HICs can deploy warp interdiction bubbles, etc.
They're designed for organized PVP fleets. My recommendation would be to go for battlecruisers if you need them for higher level missions or beginner / small scale PVP, and make tech 2 cruisers a long term goal for later. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
347
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Posted - 2015.02.11 02:01:01 -
[7] - Quote
I give you a thumbs up for finding this out on your own. I usually have to tell this to most new players.
So basically your skills unlock mods for pretty much all sub-capital ships except your weapons and ship skills. Basically T2 hardeners are T2 hardeners same on a Titan as a noob ship. Capital ships have different skills for cap ship reppers but other than that and the weapons all ships essentially share the same support skills with few exceptions.
So what this means is that when considering ship piloting skills small ships and their weapons systems train fast. Medium ships and their weapons systems are not too bad, Large ships and their weapons systems take a decent amount of time and in my opinion should be avoided until you have the support skills trained well. When you get a better idea of how gunnery works you'll understand also some of the problems with large weapons applying damage to smaller targets and how you need better base skills to start off with.
The other thing to understand is that Large weapons really only unlock Battleships and for example large lazors pretty much only get you the 3 Amarr BSs and eventually the 2 T2 versions of those which is one marauder and one black ops which is really a niche ship with a specific role that is not combat but creating jump portals. And note that both T2 BSs are seperate skills. I guess we could include the oracle in here but again a niche ship with a specific role. Pirate faction BSs as well if you cross train other races.
Medium lazors on the other hand open up: 2 Amarr battlecruisers, 2 tech 2 Amarr battlecruisers (one skill for both), 4 amarr crusiers (3 if you exclude logi ) and 6 tech 2 Amarr cruisers ( 5 if you exclude logi ). Tech 2 cruisers are 4 skills for 6 ships. Again cross training to other races can open up pirate faction cruisers as well. You also get the tech 3 strategic cruisers as well.
As you can see medium ships open up a lot more options to you and train much faster than large ships and are by far more bang for the buck. Also as far as isk per hour from PvE combat no matter which path you go you'll almost certainly make more isk per hour if you specialize in medium ships and stay out of battleships until you are well skilled in all the support skills.
You should probably note that all my advice is from purely a PvE viewpoint. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1389
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Posted - 2015.02.11 02:17:28 -
[8] - Quote
I would get cruisers and variants and also the frigate variants like intercepters and covops sorted before getting too heavily into the BC side of things.
Note if you do go the BC route and you are intent on missioning in one, some BC are more suited to missions then others. Drakes and Prophecies are great mission ships for example whereas 'nados and harbingers - not so much, though they have other uses.
The advice on training is good but I should mention the exception in Weapon training is drones. Drone skills are useful from frigates all the way up. |
Praxis Ginimic
Lazaretto
864
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Posted - 2015.02.11 04:32:14 -
[9] - Quote
Just my .02 ISK... I have all the cruisers and BC's trained to V and I never fly any of the BC's. I have tried them all amd the BC's are just too slow clunky for my taste. As far as pve goes I find that HAC's can handle anything that a BC can and for pvp I have solo'd plenty of BC's in t1 cruisers. For my money, the cruisers are more fun and more versatile than the BC's. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
347
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Posted - 2015.02.11 22:56:05 -
[10] - Quote
Praxis Ginimic wrote:Just my .02 ISK... I have all the cruisers and BC's trained to V and I never fly any of the BC's. I have tried them all amd the BC's are just too slow clunky for my taste. As far as pve goes I find that HAC's can handle anything that a BC can and for pvp I have solo'd plenty of BC's in t1 cruisers. For my money, the cruisers are more fun and more versatile than the BC's. keep in mind the tracking math from gunnery takes into account the sig radius so even though both cruisers and BCs have medium weapons the BC will still have a harder time tracking the cruisers than the other way around. |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8863
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Posted - 2015.02.11 23:26:22 -
[11] - Quote
battle cruisers can fit links (glorious links), they can be used for good boosting platforms before you can fly a t3 or commandship
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Kaiserin Schlacht
Rolling Static Gone Critical
3
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Posted - 2015.02.11 23:59:49 -
[12] - Quote
They use pretty much the same skills
That said, cruisers are a lot more varied with a lot of different uses than battlecruisers
With cruiser skills... you pretty much cover the entire sprectrum of stuff to do |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4608
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Posted - 2015.02.12 00:29:42 -
[13] - Quote
At high skills, Cruiser 5 is better as it opens up a lot more options in tech 2 ships (Heavy Assault Cruisers, Logistics ships, Recon/Force Recons, Heavy Interdictors as opposed to just Command Ships).
At low skills, Cruiser 5 is better as tech 1 BCs are balanced around higher core skills than cruisers, meaning that they tend to require higher skills to fit effectively and their capacitor is often worse. Battlecruisers do, however, let you get away with making more mistakes in PVE (as you will have a lot more EHP, so if you screw up, you'll have more time to recover).
The only real use of battlecruisers I recommend at the moment is if you have a definite need for the role played by 'Attack Battlecruisers' (which are very high damage, long range, terrible accuracy and very easily killed ships), then you might want to train for them. You will know already if you have a use for those ships.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4597
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Posted - 2015.02.12 01:31:36 -
[14] - Quote
There are more medium hulls in EVE than any other hull class. They are well worth spending training time on.
Attack Battlecruisers (a subset of standard battlecruisers) are the only hulls in the class that don't use medium weapons.
Ignoring rare tournament ships:
Standard Cruisers * Cruisers (16)
Faction Cruisers * Navy Cruisers (8) * Pirate Cruisers (5) * SoE: Stratios
Advanced Cruisers (T2) * Heavy Assault Ships (8) * Heavy Interdictors (4) * Recons (8) * Logistics (4)
Advanced Cruisers (T3) * Strategic Cruisers (4, plus subsystems that allow several variations)
Standard Battlecruisers * Battlecruisers (12)
Faction Battlecruisers * Navy Battlecruisers (4) * SoCT: Gnosis
Advanced Battlecruisers (T2) * Command Ships (8) |
Trevor Dalech
Adeptus Assassinorum Silent Eviction
93
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Posted - 2015.02.14 06:01:01 -
[15] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Praxis Ginimic wrote:Just my .02 ISK... I have all the cruisers and BC's trained to V and I never fly any of the BC's. I have tried them all amd the BC's are just too slow clunky for my taste. As far as pve goes I find that HAC's can handle anything that a BC can and for pvp I have solo'd plenty of BC's in t1 cruisers. For my money, the cruisers are more fun and more versatile than the BC's. keep in mind the tracking math from gunnery takes into account the sig radius so even though both cruisers and BCs have medium weapons the BC will still have a harder time tracking the cruisers than the other way around.
My choice of pvp ship, when facing a BC is usually a cruiser (or a frigate if they don't carry drones.) The effect of speed and sig is FAR larger than most people realize. I've run sites in a t1 cruiser, when a buddy of mine warped in a heavy buffer tanked drake he immediately had to warp out again due to the damage while only a few of the rats were capable of hitting me.
But travel time are the best argument for me to stick to cruisers, you do not want to travel 100km to the next gate in a BC. |
Typhoid Mary
Alzhara Industries
21
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Posted - 2015.02.14 06:38:59 -
[16] - Quote
From a new player perspective with limited skills I personally found the BC better in the short term. Training Cruisers to V (from 3) would have taken me roughly 21 days, where BC's I could train to 3 in a day. That essentially means that I could go level 3 missions 20 days earlier.
In the long run I completely agree that Cruisers is the better choice, but spending 1 day to train BC's so you can do level 3 missions and then go back to Cruisers is probably the better option for a new player that wants to run missions.
EDIT: I am aware that Cruisers can also do level 3 missions, and I did actually do level 3 missions in a Cruiser for some time. BC's can do it better with less warping out at low skill levels. I compared the differences and the time saved from the extra speed for Cruisers was totally lost by me having to warp out regularly to go repair. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
469
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Posted - 2015.02.14 07:54:33 -
[17] - Quote
Both ship types have their uses, though BC's suffer a bit from falling between a BS and a cruiser with that being said cruiser V offers a huge number of choices compared to BC V.
Main Pros and cons for a BC is that it's way more resilient then a cruiser and that's about the good sides, bad sides are larger signature size, slower speed all that extra baggage that comes with sizing up. |
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