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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
73
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Posted - 2015.02.15 07:15:25 -
[31] - Quote
Ares Desideratus wrote:An AB brawler is by no means sure win over a MWD brawler either, I think his point stands and is true.
Eh...elaborate? AB/scram/web vs MWD/scram/web brawl would seem to have a predictable result. |
RonPaul Rox
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
74
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Posted - 2015.02.15 07:45:37 -
[32] - Quote
1. guys, it makes no difference what direction your ship is pointed. if you are stationary, your accel speed will be the same in any direction.
2. whats important is burning in the opposite direction the ab guy is going, which usually means burning past him. Also, if he is more than 3k from you, just burn straight away or at a 90 degree angle
3. people sitting in the plex do get to dictate starting range, but you get to pick a ship that counters theirs. look at his killboard, bring a ship that will counter whatever he has. living in the warzone with a variety of ships ready to go makes this easy.
4. 99% of mwd brawl can catch mwd kite if you slingshot with overheat
i have a question for ab brawlers im too lazy to look up, does your ab not mess with your own tracking as much as it does your opponents'? if it does, mwd brawl vs ab brawl should b pretty even. TYIA
http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL
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Arla Sarain
288
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Posted - 2015.02.15 11:33:42 -
[33] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote: i have a question for ab brawlers im too lazy to look up, does your ab not mess with your own tracking as much as it does your opponents'? if it does, mwd brawl vs ab brawl should b pretty even. TYIA
Angular speed is relative so yeah. But it also depends on whether the MWD guy intends to orbit, in which case the penalty would still be lower because the speeds are cumulitive. Two webbed AB dudes orbiting each other are faster than a scram/webbed MWD and webbed AB user. Roughly 800m/s vs 600m/s transversal respectively.
Don't think it's a matter of tracking though, reather range control would be more important. |
Justin Zaine
176
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Posted - 2015.02.15 13:50:04 -
[34] - Quote
This is true, assuming we're both at a full stop. But if I had just exited warp and am slowing to a full stop, does my current speed - Even if it's only like 20 m/s - help me accelerate past him if I chose to burn straight ahead or is the difference in speed barely noticeable? I would assume that every little bit helps, but you have a good point.
Wheeeeeee
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Ares Desideratus
Star Children Of Cain
207
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Posted - 2015.02.15 14:00:50 -
[35] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Ares Desideratus wrote:An AB brawler is by no means sure win over a MWD brawler either, I think his point stands and is true. Eh...elaborate? AB/scram/web vs MWD/scram/web brawl would seem to have a predictable result. It would, because the AB brawler has the advantage of dictating range within scram range. But, like all things, the outcome depends on the situation. The MWD brawler still has the advantage of controlling the range outside of the scram range, which is also an advantage that should not be underestimated. For one example, an Ishkur setup as an MWD brawler, facing off with an AB brawler, the Ishkur could dance around the AB brawler using his MWD and let his drones do some serious damage to the AB brawlers tank, before committing to scram range to finish him off.
The same can be said of the MWD brawler vs. the MWD kiter. It would seem to have a fairly predictable result as well. In general, I think it's just a matter of time before the MWD brawler catches the MWD kiter with a heated web or scram.
But you're right it is definitely no sure thing, I mean there are some slow brawlers. For instance it would be pretty hard to catch a good kiter in a slow Assault Ship or something like that but nevertheless there are a lot of MWD brawler frigates that could get the job done.
If there is a counter to MWD kiters, it is probably a good MWD brawler... or just a better kiter.
I'm a creator, preserver, destroyer, I like makin' stuff and doin' things ~~~~~~ 0% Efficiency in Fucks Given ~~~~~~~ nun wow mom unu
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RonPaul Rox
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
76
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Posted - 2015.02.15 20:56:47 -
[36] - Quote
Justin Zaine wrote:1. This is true, assuming we're both at a full stop. But if I had just exited warp and am slowing to a full stop, does my current speed - Even if it's only like 20 m/s - help me accelerate past him if I chose to burn straight ahead or is the difference in speed barely noticeable? I would assume that every little bit helps, but you have a good point. 2. Since you're aligned "nowhere" at a full stop, aren't you contradicting yourself by saying you should burn in the opposite direction that he's pointing in if he's also stopped? Theoretically it would take him the exact same amount of time to approach you from a full stop whether you burn behind him or in front of him. The only difference would be if he's orbiting the warp in or is burning toward or away from you at range. 3. I have yet to meet someone that will go more than 1 jump to re-ship just to kill some plexing frigate. Shiny ships yes. T1 or faction frigates, no. Plus if I re-shipped to counter every frigate out there I don't think I'd ever actually undock. I am frequently 5+ jumps from home station. 4. Manual piloting well...sometimes it works. MWD brawlers are a PITA.
1. i think u are unable to control your ship until u hit full stop, u should test this yourself tho im not sure
2. 99% of the time an ab brawler will start approaching you before u drop out of warp, meaning he wont just be pointed at you, he will have momentum going in your direction, that momentum will work against him if he's really close and u burn past him.
3. i RARELY go more than 2 jumps from innia, so reshipping in innia / eha is easy. my default is mwd/scram/brawl, but im not stupid enough to warp in on a scram web kiter with that (again lol)
http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
77
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Posted - 2015.02.15 21:49:33 -
[37] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:Justin Zaine wrote:1. This is true, assuming we're both at a full stop. But if I had just exited warp and am slowing to a full stop, does my current speed - Even if it's only like 20 m/s - help me accelerate past him if I chose to burn straight ahead or is the difference in speed barely noticeable? I would assume that every little bit helps, but you have a good point. 2. Since you're aligned "nowhere" at a full stop, aren't you contradicting yourself by saying you should burn in the opposite direction that he's pointing in if he's also stopped? Theoretically it would take him the exact same amount of time to approach you from a full stop whether you burn behind him or in front of him. The only difference would be if he's orbiting the warp in or is burning toward or away from you at range. 3. I have yet to meet someone that will go more than 1 jump to re-ship just to kill some plexing frigate. Shiny ships yes. T1 or faction frigates, no. Plus if I re-shipped to counter every frigate out there I don't think I'd ever actually undock. I am frequently 5+ jumps from home station. 4. Manual piloting well...sometimes it works. MWD brawlers are a PITA. 1. i think u are unable to control your ship until u hit full stop, u should test this yourself tho im not sure 2. 99% of the time an ab brawler will start approaching you before u drop out of warp, meaning he wont just be pointed at you, he will have momentum going in your direction, that momentum will work against him if he's really close and u burn past him. 3. i RARELY go more than 2 jumps from innia, so reshipping in innia / eha is easy. my default is mwd/scram/brawl, but im not stupid enough to warp in on a scram web kiter with that (again lol)
Being able to quickly reship to someone's counter is nice. This is where exceptionally versatile ships like the comet or Tristan really shine because you can't be sure of their fit until you land on grid with them. |
Trey Kutoi
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology
63
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Posted - 2015.02.16 12:02:11 -
[38] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:[quote=Justin Zaine]
1. This is true, assuming we're both at a full stop. But if I had just exited warp and am slowing to a full stop, does my current speed - Even if it's only like 20 m/s - help me accelerate past him if I chose to burn straight ahead or is the difference in speed barely noticeable? I would assume that every little bit helps, but you have a good point.
when you drop out of warp, for 5 seconds, you are 'invulnerable' to being targeted unless you take an action after sliding the gate. this time is also the same time it takes to decelerate from your warp (unless plated or horrible agility) . if you try to move before this timer is up, you won't start at zero speed,
tbh, this time is better spent looking at the enemy ship and seeing what weapons are fit and what tactics might be used |
Mr Duffo
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
75
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Posted - 2015.02.16 13:05:55 -
[39] - Quote
keep at range is your death when you land. brawler frig is coming overheated mwd towards you so you have to fly past him so he will slingshot out of scram. |
Justin Zaine
179
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Posted - 2015.02.16 13:40:33 -
[40] - Quote
Trey Kutoi wrote:RonPaul Rox wrote:[quote=Justin Zaine]
1. This is true, assuming we're both at a full stop. But if I had just exited warp and am slowing to a full stop, does my current speed - Even if it's only like 20 m/s - help me accelerate past him if I chose to burn straight ahead or is the difference in speed barely noticeable? I would assume that every little bit helps, but you have a good point.
when you drop out of warp, for 5 seconds, you are 'invulnerable' to being targeted unless you take an action after sliding the gate. this time is also the same time it takes to decelerate from your warp (unless plated or horrible agility) . if you try to move before this timer is up, you won't start at zero speed, tbh, this time is better spent looking at the enemy ship and seeing what weapons are fit and what tactics might be used
I had heard about this, but for some reason I thought it was 10 seconds. Haven't really tested it much yet though
Wheeeeeee
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Mizhir
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
74050
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Posted - 2015.02.16 17:23:48 -
[41] - Quote
Plexes are a pretty ****** mechanic in my opinion. It gives the person in the plex the advantage of both picking the engagement range and free intel on short dscan before they enter the plex. The attacker just have to take a leap of faith. This creates an environment where plexes are more like traps rather than thunderdomes.
One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2793
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Posted - 2015.02.16 18:21:17 -
[42] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:AB Brawlers > MWD Brawlers > MWD Kiters > AB Brawlers... MWD brawler is by no means a sure win over a kiter. As it should be. Nothing in Eve should be certain.
The only thing that should be certain is that your friends should support your self-repping AB brawler if a Kiter has you pointed (and doesn't have the dps to take you down in 2-4 minutes).
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Plato Forko
Forko Nanorobotics
127
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Posted - 2015.02.16 21:49:46 -
[43] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Plexes are a pretty ****** mechanic in my opinion. It gives the person in the plex the advantage of both picking the engagement range and free intel on short dscan before they enter the plex. The attacker just have to take a leap of faith. This creates an environment where plexes are more like traps rather than thunderdomes.
you can dscan into a plex just as well as you can dscan out of one. the only meaningful advantage that the defender gets is the option to add some extra distance if they suspect the attacker might be fitted like a direct counter, but that tactical advantage is easily offset by the strategic advantage given to the attacker; which is the option to scout the rest of the system and adjacent systems while the defender is confined to his plex. the attacker can also stack backup on a gate into the system, attack the plex with the sole objective of tackling the defender and the defender has no way to know it was a bait play until the attacker's backup lands. both sides get advantages and a place to fight, seems legit to me
There's nothin' like skating away from a fight with the hull on fire, some mods burned out and a cargohold full of loot.
See my terribad blog for stories.
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