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Kyoko Sakoda
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
199
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Posted - 2015.02.16 16:50:06 -
[61] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Reading her, though, i'm pretty sure she couldn't stand herself. She hid in a labyrinth of ideas because she couldn't stand her own reflection.
And for those of us who couldn't do that, she mentored us back to some semblance of sanity. |
Aria Jenneth
Perkone Caldari State
213
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Posted - 2015.02.16 16:53:57 -
[62] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:Izanami Rei wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote: I hope I'm really someone honest and morally upright, like a clonejacker.
Perhaps you have been afforded the chance to be just that. To kinda reiterate what they're saying nothings stopping you from being that person. Just don't forget what you are and if you ever really get a grasp of who you were don't forget where ya came from. You two do get that a clonejacker is someone who steals other people's identities and lives, right?
As in, hijacker of clones.
It's what I probably am if I'm not Aria Jenneth.
... just a different species of criminal. |
Jennifer Starfall
Repracor Industries
58
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Posted - 2015.02.16 16:54:51 -
[63] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Jukko Riis wrote:TRUST NO ONE. People keep saying this. Half of them want me to trust them after they say it. I've been looking around GalNet, reading what I can. I see scams, piracy, interstellar criminal cartels the size of empires. Political discord, endless wars, rampant death. Capsuleers making a killing. Aria Jenneth was a murderer who killed her own grandfather. She didn't try to hide it. She was also a pirate who loved to watch habitats explode. She blamed that on being a capsuleer. She thought being a capsuleer made her worse. She's also a legendary philosopher, I guess. Or so people tell me. Reading her, though, i'm pretty sure she couldn't stand herself. She hid in a labyrinth of ideas because she couldn't stand her own reflection. She didn't want to be wise. She wanted to be safe, from her history, from the world, from consequences. She was a hypocrite, and a sophist, and she knew it. I hope I'm really someone honest and morally upright, like a clonejacker.
For all that, she should know that she took this broken, angry child and set her on a path to becoming whole. It was a path filled with violence and anger. But it was also a path that lead to peace and healing.
I hope you are really Aria. I want you to see how you've help make me whole.
Jennifer Starfall
Media & Communications
Repracor Industries
The Fourth Seyllin Conference
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Rictor Thellere
Rictor Thellere Private Trade Corporation
17
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Posted - 2015.02.16 16:57:32 -
[64] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote: You two do get that a clonejacker is someone who steals other people's identities and lives, right?
As in, hijacker of clones.
It's what I probably am if I'm not Aria Jenneth.
... just a different species of criminal.
I get that, and if that's what happened perhaps Aria did just that, in order to get a fresh start. Take advantage of it. |
Deitra Vess
Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies.
275
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 17:02:15 -
[65] - Quote
I know, what ya meant, If you are you wouldn't exactly be that great at it since your drawing attention to yourself. The fact you seem clueless to the events leading up to your initial video leads me to believe that's not the case. Bare in mind I didn't know the original Aria, so for all I know you could be one. I'm merely trusting my gut on this one and showing sympathy isn't really going to effect me in the least. |
Aria Jenneth
Perkone Caldari State
213
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Posted - 2015.02.16 17:04:09 -
[66] - Quote
. . . . |
Aria Jenneth
Perkone Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 18:01:27 -
[67] - Quote
All right. Enough self-pity.
It sounds like the last person to try to reach me physically hit a wall after docking at the station.
If I'm getting out of here, it's going to be on my own.
To those of you who see Aria as a mentor or a guide ... I'm sorry. I can't see in her what you do.
If I'm her, then maybe she couldn't, either.
To me it looks like she had a head full of mirrors and bull****. But if it was valuable to you ... maybe the person she really couldn't help was herself.
We can maybe talk about it if I can get out of here. I'm going to start running tests on my rig. I'll still be in touch, but....
If this works, maybe I'll see you in space.
If not ...
... I guess, thanks for not treating me like damaged hardware.
Here goes. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
725
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Posted - 2015.02.16 18:09:47 -
[68] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote: Here goes.
Good luck, pilot. And remember
You don't have to be what other people want you to be.
You can be yourself.
Doctor Valerie Valate, archaeologist. Not the other Doctor Valerie Valate.
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Aria Jenneth
Perkone Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 19:49:35 -
[69] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:You can be yourself.
Easier with more context. ... which, I'm getting some of.
Update for the interested: not dead.
Also not mindlocked, which is important.
Presently jacked into the pod. There's no dangerous feedback or interference to speak of. Since I'm apparently in lowsec, I'll be running test simulations rather than hopping out the front door to have a look.
Also, if I'm not actually as qualified to fly that Tengu as I look on paper, I'd like to know ahead of time.
So far, I'm verified category five in, ah, all four empires' frigate control schemes.
This is kind of unsettling.
Aria, didn't you own anything that isn't covered in guns?
... Ah, of course. A blockade runner.
For moving the guns. |
Deitra Vess
Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies.
275
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 20:14:00 -
[70] - Quote
At least you'll be kinda safe when you undock, that's a plus... Congratulations on taking the first steps too. |
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Aria Jenneth
Perkone Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 21:51:13 -
[71] - Quote
... Um. Fifth rank in ...
... Amarr Battleships ... ... Caldari Battleships ... ... Gallente Battleships ... ... Minmatar Battleships....
That's ... ah, that's common, right? Not unusual?
Um. Typical, maybe, for pilots with a certain number of years?
Let's, ah, maybe try something ... else ...
Astrometric pinpointing. Aria only rates a four.... |
Lyn Farel
Kitzless
901
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Posted - 2015.02.16 23:31:32 -
[72] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Um. Typical, maybe, for pilots with a certain number of years?
Probably. There comes a time when you do not really know what to train next. And you stop caring. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1297
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 00:20:08 -
[73] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Jukko Riis wrote:TRUST NO ONE. People keep saying this. Half of them want me to trust them after they say it. I've been looking around GalNet, reading what I can. I see scams, piracy, interstellar criminal cartels the size of empires. Political discord, endless wars, rampant death. Capsuleers making a killing. Aria Jenneth was a murderer who killed her own grandfather. She didn't try to hide it. She was also a pirate who loved to watch habitats explode. She blamed that on being a capsuleer. She thought being a capsuleer made her worse. She's also a legendary philosopher, I guess. Or so people tell me. Reading her, though, i'm pretty sure she couldn't stand herself. She hid in a labyrinth of ideas because she couldn't stand her own reflection. She didn't want to be wise. She wanted to be safe, from her history, from the world, from consequences. She was a hypocrite, and a sophist, and she knew it. I hope I'm really someone honest and morally upright, like a clonejacker.
If you actually believe all of what you just said here, and this whole memory-less clone thing hasn't been some big hoax, then it sounds to me like you may actually be a better person than who Ms. Jenneth was.
Try to hold on to that. Few capsuleers do. Most believe the same kind of ramblings your template used to write about how special capsuleers are.
Capsuleers are awful people. The more human you try to be, the better off you'll be. |
Kalaratiri
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
481
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 00:30:59 -
[74] - Quote
Those looking for a reason can often find it in those around them. Don't be a stranger.
She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.
This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. -á- CCP Falcon
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Aria Jenneth
Perkone Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 01:31:10 -
[75] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Probably. There comes a time when you do not really know what to train next. And you stop caring.
Oh. Um. Good.
... I score a four on astrometric pinpointing.
Well....
Samira Kernher wrote:If you actually believe all of what you just said here, and this whole memory-less clone thing hasn't been some big hoax, then it sounds to me like you may actually be a better person than who Ms. Jenneth was.
Try to hold on to that. Few capsuleers do. Most believe the same kind of ramblings your template used to write about how special capsuleers are.
Capsuleers are awful people. The more human you try to be, the better off you'll be.
That seems sensible.
Wasn't that her advice, too, though? Especially the early stuff.
Be human if you can. If you can't, here's an alternative. That sort of thing?
... I'm not sure which of us that was for. Sorry. A bit distracted. Testing these stupid metrics, getting matches time after time, I feel like I could be a hoax, or a prank. Like the rest of Aria Jenneth is going to pop out of a cake any second, and I'll just be ...
... the joke will be on me. Only I'll be gone.
Maybe she'll have the grace to feel bad about that for a moment.
Something more esoteric ... um....
Kalaratiri wrote:Those looking for a reason can often find it in those around them. Don't be a stranger.
Are you talking about trying to stay human?
Or....
Infomorph Psychology. There's no way I rate a five. |
Aria Jenneth
Perkone Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 03:24:07 -
[76] - Quote
Five?
I don't ... how does that even....
How can a person who can't remember her own name be psychologically prepared to shuttle six bodies around?!
I don't ... I can't....
.... |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1297
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 03:39:38 -
[77] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:That seems sensible.
Wasn't that her advice, too, though? Especially the early stuff.
Be human if you can. If you can't, here's an alternative. That sort of thing?
There is no alternative. Her writings were about how different and alien capsuleers are. Her writings just fed into the delusional feelings of godhood that makes capsuleers believe they're beyond mortal concerns. Her very first writing, said in no uncertain words: "You're not human." That sentence, that one sentence, is what creates monsters.
We are humans. Just humans in a VR where we're controlling real spaceships instead of virtual ones, and where we pretend that our mortal replacements are immortal continuations. Do you feel immortal? You, more than any of us, should be able to appreciate the fact that you are a replacement, because you are absent of the memories that create the illusion of continuation. You aren't Aria Jenneth, or any of her copies, you're a new person made in her image and with her name, just as the clone after you won't be you.
As long as people keep trying to live with these delusions that we're something other than human, we'll keep spawning people who believe they can ignore human concerns.
What made your templates' writings terrible, was that they were defeatist. "You're a killer." Why? Capsuleers are not killers by nature, they're killers by choice, and by lack of the restrictions normally imposed on society that would discourage that choice. "You do not have empathy," "You do not even notice." If a capsuleer has no empathy, and does not notice, it's because they choose to have no empathy, and choose not to notice.
Becoming a monster is a choice. Your templates encouraged people to make that choice by instilling these defeatist and self-aggrandizing philosophies. Your templates said not to embrace illusions, and yet everything they wrote was the crafting of one. You yourself pointed this out.
What your templates did, was say that we are monsters who should try to be human. That is a lie. What capsuleers are are humans who all too frequently try to be monsters, and have been allowed to be by intentional removal of the chains that normally keep humans from fulfilling our darker impulses.
You're a human being. Don't ever think you're anything else. Impose whatever restrictions on yourself you need to make sure you don't choose to be anything else.
That Infomorph Psychology thing, by the way? The real name of that skill is Voluntary Suicide. There's an area where you should impose a restriction. Your templates weren't immortal, you aren't either. |
Aria Jenneth
Perkone Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 04:18:21 -
[78] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:That Infomorph Psychology thing, by the way? The real name of that skill is Voluntary Suicide.
That ... doesn't seem right.
One body sleeps. The ... infomorph ... passes.
The channeling's gentle. No data loss. No neuron-scorching flash scan.
The next body wakes. It ... goes about its day. It has breakfast, attends a meeting, laughs with friends over drinks.
The next day, it ... sleeps in turn. The first awakes, with all those memories.
Where is death?
....
Huh. Maybe I do rate a five.
I'm sorry, Samira. I'll ... come back to the rest later.
I have to work this out. |
Vikarion
State Trade Consortium
795
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 05:20:35 -
[79] - Quote
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:Reading her, though, i'm pretty sure she couldn't stand herself. She hid in a labyrinth of ideas because she couldn't stand her own reflection. And for those of us who couldn't do that, she mentored us back to some semblance of sanity.
Speak for yourself.
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
4502
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 08:28:43 -
[80] - Quote
Run, you clever girl, and remember.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Ollie Rundle
205
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Posted - 2015.02.17 09:17:16 -
[81] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Ollie Rundle wrote:Presuming you are Aria Jenneth, which is something of a leap of faith still at this point, how much of what you were do you want to know? Is there much that she didn't splash all over the IGS, herself?
Quite a bit is the most likely answer. Where she's been and what she's been doing since her sudden disappearance about two years ago and your sudden reappearance now being a more specific but hardly all inclusive one. |
Aria Jenneth
Perkone Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 13:46:54 -
[82] - Quote
Ollie Rundle wrote:Quite a bit is the most likely answer. Where she's been and what she's been doing since her sudden disappearance about two years ago and your sudden reappearance now being a more specific but hardly all inclusive one. My ... reappearance? You're saying she's behind this, um, me?
. . . .
Can you maybe please not say anything right here that'll get me shot? Infomorphs aren't allowed to leave active copies of ourselves around. It's not just bad manners.
I don't want to lose my accreditation as a human being.
... even if it is kinda provisional. |
Aria Jenneth
Perkone Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 14:23:20 -
[83] - Quote
So. Ah....
Ollie's worrying hints aside, I've been working through the skill profile.
Science: Aria was a dabbler, here. The record's jagged, highs and lows all mixed in together like teeth on an old key.
Amarr Encryption, two.
Caldari Encryption, one.
Electromagnetic Physics, one.
Gallente Encryption, one.
Graviton Physics, four.
High Energy Physics, one.
And on and on. They all match.
The records ... what I can get ... show my archive was last updated 114.6.29. It's about the time Aria vanished.
There are reasons to doubt this method. The archive's corrupt; how did my skillset survive?
For those of you who worry I'm an impostor, I don't know if this is even evidence. It's me doing the testing, after all.
For me, though, it's time I faced facts.
I'm her. I'm Aria.
Gods help me. |
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
534
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 14:54:18 -
[84] - Quote
A lot of people are making a number of assumptions here that they shouldn't. I understand that when you see someone in peril, the tempting and morally correct thing to do is to jump right in and try to help. But please keep in mind that, without a firm understanding of the person or the situation in question, you can often do harm even with the best of intentions. This isn't to say "mind your own business", but... Well, be conscious of the implications of your words in the greater sense, and when in doubt, err on the side of caution, when dealing with a stranger.
To the OP: Please get in contact with me. I have some information you will probably find helpful. I would speak to you right now at length, but the cluster is inconsiderately falling apart by the minute. |
Aria Jenneth
Perkone Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 15:23:56 -
[85] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:... the cluster is inconsiderately falling apart by the minute. Oh, gods. I just saw the news.
Um. Please don't worry about me?
I should be okay as long as nobody in command decides I'm redundant.
... and there's not much anyone will be able to do to save me if that happens. So. Ah.
Cluster-wide military threat. Bigger problem. |
Lyn Farel
Kitzless
901
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 20:49:32 -
[86] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:That Infomorph Psychology thing, by the way? The real name of that skill is Voluntary Suicide. That ... doesn't seem right. One body sleeps. The ... infomorph ... passes. The channeling's gentle. No data loss. No neuron-scorching flash scan. The next body wakes. It ... goes about its day. It has breakfast, attends a meeting, laughs with friends over drinks. The next day, it ... sleeps in turn. The first awakes, with all those memories. Where is death?
It is not right.
There is no death for the identity, only for the body. Continuity of data stream and thought is conserved, like with any hardscan process.
Conventional thinking based on human perception of space time continuum can not cope with the scope of multiple identities and discontinuity of thought.
Telling that someone ceases to be that someone after a hardscan, or even a delayed cloning, is nonsensical. Technically you stop being you at the next second no matter what you do. |
Ollie Rundle
205
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 22:10:08 -
[87] - Quote
Have to agree with you there, Lyn. Generally speaking, a successful suicide doesn't come back. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1305
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 23:27:12 -
[88] - Quote
Ollie Rundle wrote:Have to agree with you there, Lyn. Generally speaking, a successful suicide doesn't come back.
You don't. A copy with your memories does (or without, in this new Jenneth's case).
But as usual, capsuleers will cling to the delusion that they're immortal, and thus more special than the rest of humanity. So, forget I said anything, as it just falls on deaf ears and is drowned out by dreamers.
And Ms. Jenneth, most jump clones performed today do involve neuron-scorching flash scans. So there is certainly 'a death'. |
Aria Jenneth
Perkone Caldari State
215
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 23:34:54 -
[89] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:And Ms. Jenneth, most jump clones performed today do involve neuron-scorching flash scans. So there is certainly 'a death'. That ... doesn't sound right.
An emergency cloning is a violent event.
A clone jump is not. That's ... the point of it.
A jump clone permits clone retention ... all implants retained, however expensive and fragile.
Medical bay to medical bay ... no actual cloning bay even required.
No deadly hair net. No capsuleer's thorn-crown. No neurotoxins to ensure death.
Did this ... change? There seems no reason why it should. |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
7506
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 23:48:41 -
[90] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:That Infomorph Psychology thing, by the way? The real name of that skill is Voluntary Suicide. That ... doesn't seem right. One body sleeps. The ... infomorph ... passes. The channeling's gentle. No data loss. No neuron-scorching flash scan. The next body wakes. It ... goes about its day. It has breakfast, attends a meeting, laughs with friends over drinks. The next day, it ... sleeps in turn. The first awakes, with all those memories. Where is death? It is not right. There is no death for the identity, only for the body. Continuity of data stream and thought is conserved, like with any hardscan process. Conventional thinking based on human perception of space time continuum can not cope with the scope of multiple identities and discontinuity of thought. Telling that someone ceases to be that someone after a hardscan, or even a delayed cloning, is nonsensical. Technically you stop being you at the next second no matter what you do.
This is important.
Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
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