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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
282
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Posted - 2015.02.14 17:22:11 -
[31] - Quote
M'pact wrote:Godfrey Silvarna wrote:One important thing to note in this discussion is that in American law and cultural coxtext sharing private communication without consent from BOTH involved parties is forbidden. ...and those who are paranoid about such things should have read the EULA. They voluntarily gave away any and all right to privacy when they agreed to it. Like every single MMO out there, anything you type is no longer private. That includes regular chat, "private" chat, and in-game mail. This here's EVE. Just like when you press undock, you should consider your ship already dead ... when you press Enter/Send, you should consider the words you typed already public. And for the record, I'm an American. I am European. I probably wrote that in a bit confusing way.
The point of my message was not in reminding people about american law, but about the fact that here in europe the law is completely different and americans have no business arguing about OUR liberty. Only way to extend american law to my home would be to send a conquering army.
It is extremely amusing when american corporations and lawyers send email to european citizens with pompous warnings about how they will be sued to hell and back if the contents of the mail are published. Naturally, mail like that will be published with much ridicule and there is nothing they can legally do about it.
The same issue comes up often in international communities on the internets, and is always amusing. Just look at how many people try to internet lawyer about evemails published on minerbumping.com for example. |
Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
37450
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Posted - 2015.02.14 17:25:08 -
[32] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:EVEMail isn't EMail. Don't use it for personal thing. You could say the same about TS, it's not a secure phone line yet corpies talk about personal stuff on there all the time and can (and are) often recorded while doing so.
Ideals are one thing, reality is another, and in every MMO people discuss and share personal stuff via mails, ingame chats, TS, you name it - all the time. The gaming company knows this and has a responsibility to protect their users privacy as best as possible in an environment that is not an ideal world. So when I discovered that here a way i actually provided by the company to breach that privacy it doesn't really sit well with me - especially when we see silly things like access for wormhole mappers API being restricted by CCP to help prevent people from being ganked while farming.
I agree with the OP that mail access from API is wrong, but I deal with it personally.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3708
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Posted - 2015.02.14 17:34:23 -
[33] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:The gaming company knows this and has a responsibility to protect their users privacy as best as possible in an environment that is not an ideal world. I disagree.
At most they could have the courtesy to remind people that in-game communication is not private, since apparently people make the mistake to assume otherwise.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
37457
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Posted - 2015.02.14 17:44:54 -
[34] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:The gaming company knows this and has a responsibility to protect their users privacy as best as possible in an environment that is not an ideal world. I disagree. At most they could have the courtesy to remind people that in-game communication is not private, since apparently people make the mistake to assume otherwise. Sure, I mean at the end of the day there's nothing stopping me from screenshoting a mail and sending it to a thousand people, or even just forwarding it.
But for the company themselves to provide an actual service to facilitate that is pretty damning, IMO. Just my personal opinion, having played a ton of games like most people, and worked in at least one, giving people that access is rather unprecedented and I can fully empathize with some people's discord with it.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
The Endgame | Wormhole Diaries
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vccv
4
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Posted - 2015.02.14 17:53:23 -
[35] - Quote
Yea, nobody needs a full api, especially the little half arse corps with only 4-7 people ever on at the same time. Tell them to stuff it. Be careful with the url parties as well.. your corp mates will hax your pc. Common knowledge learned the hard way, you arent alone in that boat. CCP has no responsibility either. Just dont give it out, and make a new one if you did. As for fellow pilots with nefarious intentions outside of game.. label them as isis recruiters and turn them in on ic3 if you find their scripts and wares on your box lol. A new api takes a few min to make, a new ssd is cheap too. Good luck! |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8907
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Posted - 2015.02.14 17:55:16 -
[36] - Quote
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Is a "pretty common knowledge" which I ignored until just 20 minutes ago, after playing the game for most of 6 years
yes, even i knew that and im hammered most of the time So tempted to indulge in a stereotype @OP You agree to it when you "sign" the EULA and again when you create a full API. Tis grand, I do make something of an effort to live up to it
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
946
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Posted - 2015.02.14 17:59:11 -
[37] - Quote
i`m just eating popcorn, move on please..... |
Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
20792
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Posted - 2015.02.14 18:16:37 -
[38] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:i`m just eating popcorn, move on please..... Wow, popcorn is so YC 116.
Haven't you heard now days it's all about the Tacos.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
Dusette SquadGäó endorses Corbexx for CSM X !
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16106
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Posted - 2015.02.14 18:26:12 -
[39] - Quote
How the hell is there even an arguement about this?
"Guys it gets cold and rains a lot in winter and I'm pretty mad about that! Ima sue the government."
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Effect One
Vengeful Swan Vengeful Swarm
174
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Posted - 2015.02.14 18:47:49 -
[40] - Quote
Jesus Christ.
People think way too highly of their personal information. Tip: No one cares about your life.
Stop worrying about insignificant things and enjoy the game.
'This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense' - CCP Falcon
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CCP Falcon
10637
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Posted - 2015.02.14 18:57:17 -
[41] - Quote
Regardless of what you're doing in EVE, you should never EVEmail anything, to any player that you'd consider private or personal, because there's nothing to stop the other player forwarding it on to someone else or sharing it publicly via copypasta, or the API system.
Exactly the same with any real world email account you own. You can add any disclaimers you want to your email, but in the end, if someone wants to share it, then they can do and it's then up to you to action it or pick up the pieces.
If you're dabbling with the API and don't want someone to be able to see mail, then create a custom API rather than giving out your full one. You can do so here.
There are perfectly reasonable safeguards in place for you to protect the contents of your inbox, as seen here, and the strings "MailMessages", "MailingLists" and "MailBodies" are quite clearly displayed on the API Key Management page.
Quote:"It is safe to provide your API key to applications and web sites as long as you are prepared to allow the application or web site to see your character and corporation information. You can specify which information is accessible for each customizable API key."
In addition to this, also see here. you should not be transmitting personal details within the game. The EVE Online client and EVE Gate are there to facilitate gameplay within the EVE Universe, not for you to share personally sensitive materials of yourself or others.
Quote:"Except for certain information in your Account (discussed below), all transmissions by you to the System are not private. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms."
Then you can also see here. We have specific rules in our Terms of Service relating to the transmission of personal information of yourself and others within our game client. You shouldn't be doing it.
Specfically Article 19:
Quote:19. You may not communicate, post or publicize any subscriberGÇÖs personal information within the EVE Online game world or website.
We specifically say in all of our documents that nothing you transmit within EVE Online via EVEmail or chat is private, because if security or safety concerns arise on our part, or the part of a member of the community, we may need to look at messaging or pass it on to the relevant authorities for action.
In short, everyone else in this thread is right. You're forewarned of any privacy issues when you even join the game, let alone create an API key, and it's strongly suggested that you don't share anything that may be of a sensitive nature in the real world when playing EVE.
Hope this explains things.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
20792
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Posted - 2015.02.14 18:58:21 -
[42] - Quote
Effect One wrote:People think way too highly of their personal information. Tip: No one cares about your life. Maybe you've found that's your personal experience.
But tell that to the two people who openly told me recently they used to read my mails regularly for nothing but sh*ts and giggles.
Not that it upset me, they're both awesome guys + friends, but it still goes to show that you're wrong.
And it was enough to affirm I'm doing the right thing these days by refusing to give a full API. Didn't effect my joining this corp though. Dat vouch.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
Dusette SquadGäó endorses Corbexx for CSM X !
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16107
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Posted - 2015.02.14 19:22:49 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Regardless of what you're doing in EVE, you should never EVEmail anything, to any player that you'd consider private or personal, because there's nothing to stop the other player forwarding it on to someone else or sharing it publicly via copypasta, or the API system.
Sometimes it takes a CCP employee to carefully and politely explain that 2+2=4, big is more than small and that fire is hot.
Thanks for stepping up.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3744
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Posted - 2015.02.14 19:39:46 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Regardless of what you're doing in EVE, you should never EVEmail anything, to any player that you'd consider private or personal, because there's nothing to stop the other player forwarding it on to someone else or sharing it publicly via copypasta, or the API system. Exactly the same with any real world email account you own. You can add any disclaimers you want to your email, but in the end, if someone wants to share it, then they can do and it's then up to you to action it or pick up the pieces. If you're dabbling with the API and don't want someone to be able to see mail, then create a custom API rather than giving out your full one. You can do so here.There are perfectly reasonable safeguards in place for you to protect the contents of your inbox, as seen here, and the strings "MailMessages", "MailingLists" and "MailBodies" are quite clearly displayed on the API Key Management page. Quote:"It is safe to provide your API key to applications and web sites as long as you are prepared to allow the application or web site to see your character and corporation information. You can specify which information is accessible for each customizable API key."
In addition to this, also see here. you should not be transmitting personal details within the game. The EVE Online client and EVE Gate are there to facilitate gameplay within the EVE Universe, not for you to share personally sensitive materials of yourself or others. Quote:"Except for certain information in your Account (discussed below), all transmissions by you to the System are not private. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms." Then you can also see here. We have specific rules in our Terms of Service relating to the transmission of personal information of yourself and others within our game client. You shouldn't be doing it. Specfically Article 19: Quote:19. You may not communicate, post or publicize any subscriberGÇÖs personal information within the EVE Online game world or website. We specifically say in all of our documents that nothing you transmit within EVE Online via EVEmail or chat is private, because if security or safety concerns arise on our part, or the part of a member of the community, we may need to look at messaging or pass it on to the relevant authorities for action. In short, everyone else in this thread is right. You're forewarned of any privacy issues when you even join the game, let alone create an API key, and it's strongly suggested that you don't share anything that may be of a sensitive nature in the real world when playing EVE. Hope this explains things.
Thanks for the clarification. I will repeat that I never created a full API, and certainly will never create one since it would compromise everything everyone ever entrusted me with, knowingly or don't.
Dunno why CCP as a company should provide players with that tool, though, but that would be another question. Making EVE corporation recruitment less paranoid and intrusive than RL also would make sense to me... but I may be in a tiny minority here.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Vyl Vit
1049
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Posted - 2015.02.14 19:58:12 -
[45] - Quote
Interesting point. Just because who you wrote to joins a corp which uses this API fascist management system, now anyone who happened to write the hapless player gets their message to him read as well, even though THEY aren't IN this corporation and have no prior knowledge, except in a very general way - meaning if you claim "prior knowledge/no foul" to be safe don't message ANYBODY EVER!
Absurdity is hilarious, no? Trust no one as a logical course of action? The only reason we managed to civilize ourselves is because we learned to trust one another. Now, as we ride the decline of civilization into the sunset we see these sorts of conundrums rise up. Hilarious!
"What do you think 'Full API' means?" Someone just had to say that. I certainly hope the question wasn't meant philosophically! I can't stop laughin'. Dial 911 for me.
WHY WAS IT PEOPLE STAY IN NPC CORPs AGAIN??
bwaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaaa suck on it purists.
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
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Effect One
Vengeful Swan Vengeful Swarm
175
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:04:29 -
[46] - Quote
Candi LeMew wrote:Effect One wrote:People think way too highly of their personal information. Tip: No one cares about your life. Maybe you've found that's your personal experience. But tell that to the two people who openly told me recently they used to read my mails regularly for nothing but sh*ts and giggles. Not that it upset me, they're both awesome guys + friends, but it still goes to show that you're wrong. And it was enough to affirm I'm doing the right thing these days by refusing to give a full API. Didn't effect my joining this corp though. Dat vouch.
No, people reading your mail 'for ***** and giggles' does not prove that people care about your life. Why you would even provide personal information to people by Evemail of all things is beyond me, but there we go.
The juxtaposition between you being upset about personal information being viewable to others through Evemail access rights, and you even providing it in an Evemail to complete strangers within a video game in the first place, is quite frankly baffling.
'This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense' - CCP Falcon
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Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
20794
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:10:50 -
[47] - Quote
Effect One wrote:Candi LeMew wrote:Effect One wrote:People think way too highly of their personal information. Tip: No one cares about your life. Maybe you've found that's your personal experience. But tell that to the two people who openly told me recently they used to read my mails regularly for nothing but sh*ts and giggles. Not that it upset me, they're both awesome guys + friends, but it still goes to show that you're wrong. And it was enough to affirm I'm doing the right thing these days by refusing to give a full API. Didn't effect my joining this corp though. Dat vouch. No, people reading your mail 'for ***** and giggles' does not prove that people care about your life. Why you would even provide personal information to people by Evemail of all things is beyond me, but there we go. The juxtaposition between you being upset about personal information being viewable to others through Evemail access rights, and you even providing it in an Evemail to complete strangers within a video game in the first place, is quite frankly baffling. I'm not upset, nor was it personal information in my mails.
What exactly was being read, well, that's none of your business, only the intended recipient's.
I simply believe there's really no point in mail API even being a thing at all. If there was then why isn't every game doing it? In fact most take drastic steps in quite the opposite direction, both from fear of legalities and simple respect for their users.
=ƒÉÆ Bob Is Always Watching ...
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
Dusette SquadGäó endorses Corbexx for CSM X !
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Serene Repose
2236
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:12:45 -
[48] - Quote
I know. I shopped yesterday. If I tell someone I shopped, then they could tell someone else I shopped, then there's a strong likelihood people will discover I shop. Oh my. This is too close for comfort. I bought some shoes yesterday. Now, if I tell someone I bought some shoes, TWO bits of information slip that could seriously damage me; I shop and I buy SHOES!!
How did things come to this pass? Wait....I just showed concern. Now people know I'm concerned. This gets sticky fast. I'm concerned about....shopping? telling someone I shopped? someone telling someone I shopped someone knowing I shopped, that I wear shoes, buy shoes bought shoes???
Maybe I should pay a security apparatus on obscene amount of money to protect me, and my personal information...like what do I eat, what color of shirts do I like, who's my favorite bowler....EEK! MODERN LIFE SUCKS! But...it's here.
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Jimmy Farrere
University of Caille Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:24:25 -
[49] - Quote
I can 100% see the OP's point here and can only assume that the people saying this is acceptable are still missing the point.
I never considered when communicating with someone I fully trust through Eve-mail that their future carelessness (not betrayal) could lead to them revealing personal information about me to entire swathes of people (including a load of people that might not like my in-game persona much!).
Indeed, a quick look back through my Eve-mail shows that I've sent people I trust my personal phone number multiple times 'safe' in the knowledge that I would never allow people access to MY full API.
This needs addressing in my opinion. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
585
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:36:03 -
[50] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Thanks for the clarification. I will repeat that I never created a full API, and certainly will never create one since it would compromise everything everyone ever entrusted me with, knowingly or don't. Dunno why CCP as a company should provide players with that tool, though, but that would be another question. Making EVE corporation recruitment less paranoid and intrusive than RL also would make sense to me... but I may be in a tiny minority here. Make your own EVE corp and run it however you want. Don't tell others how to run theirs.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
615
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:38:39 -
[51] - Quote
Jimmy Farrere wrote:Indeed, a quick look back through my Eve-mail shows that I've sent people I trust my personal phone number multiple times Which is an EULA breach as per CCP Falcons post, specifically:
Quote:19. You may not communicate, post or publicize any subscriberGÇÖs personal information within the EVE Online game world or website. Any subscriber includes yourself.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
490
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:38:58 -
[52] - Quote
I wish to personally thank the OP for asking this question, and bringing up this point. I'm happy to learn CCP thinks so little of me, that even though they live in a state that protects their right to privacy in their letters and other communication, which includes criminal penalties if violated (fines and prison time), that they can come here and create a system that not only entirely disregards my right to this, does this while I'm paying them money, and then blames me should anything untoward occur.
I think I have the measure of these "people" now.
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7774
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:39:15 -
[53] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Go back to reading comprehension 101. I've never needed a full API, so when should I have learned that OTHERS giving THEIR full APIs would compromise MY evemails to them?
I can see your concern with this.
I've never given much thought to the matter as I tend to only receive (hate) mail and not send it. Though there is stuff in some mails I have sent that, while not embarrassing or anything, is stuff I would not want known in general.
Maybe CCP should come up with some kind of 'snapmail' that deletes itself after a period of time.
It's one thing to expect no privacy if I give my full API to a corp, but it's a little concerning that my privacy will be compromised if somebody else gives theirs.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
585
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:42:22 -
[54] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:I wish to personally thank the OP for asking this question, and bringing up this point. I'm happy to learn CCP thinks so little of me, that even though they live in a state that protects their right to privacy in their letters and other communication, which includes criminal penalties if violated (fines and prison time), that they can come here and create a system that not only entirely disregards my right to this, does this while I'm paying them money, and then blames me should anything untoward occur.
I think I have the measure of these "people" now. No, you really don't.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
490
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:43:20 -
[55] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:I wish to personally thank the OP for asking this question, and bringing up this point. I'm happy to learn CCP thinks so little of me, that even though they live in a state that protects their right to privacy in their letters and other communication, which includes criminal penalties if violated (fines and prison time), that they can come here and create a system that not only entirely disregards my right to this, does this while I'm paying them money, and then blames me should anything untoward occur.
I think I have the measure of these "people" now. No, you really don't. BS
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3749
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:49:24 -
[56] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Go back to reading comprehension 101. I've never needed a full API, so when should I have learned that OTHERS giving THEIR full APIs would compromise MY evemails to them?
I can see your concern with this. I've never given much thought to the matter as I tend to only receive (hate) mail and not send it. Though there is stuff in some mails I have sent that, while not embarrassing or anything, is stuff I would not want known in general. Maybe CCP should come up with some kind of 'snapmail' that deletes itself after a period of time. It's one thing to expect no privacy if I give my full API to a corp, but it's a little concerning that my privacy will be compromised if somebody else gives theirs. Mr Epeen
Kudos on getting the point, a rare thing in this thread.
CCP's attitude is perfectly logical (they can't be responsible of what they can't control) but the API system, what it can be used for and how that could end for someone unaware, it's CCP's doing. Is the mail necessary for API? I don't know for sure.
I think that a spy will never use the same account for getting his spy-mail, so it is a lame way to check prospect recruits. Yet then, in EVE things can go so horribly bad that nobody risks telling his corp mates that a spy infiltrated because cheking his evemails was a lame thing to do.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1627
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Posted - 2015.02.14 21:17:25 -
[57] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:EVEMail isn't EMail. Don't use it for personal thing.
you shouldn't be using EMail for personal stuff aswell :D
Build your empire !
Rent Space in Feythabolis and Omist
Contact me for details :)
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
585
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Posted - 2015.02.14 21:45:13 -
[58] - Quote
Don't use anything for personal stuff ever. Just don't be personal. Dissociate from your body. Upload your brain to the cloud.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Bloody Slave
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
193
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Posted - 2015.02.14 21:50:12 -
[59] - Quote
Isn't the rule number 1 in EVE "TRUST NO ONE"?
I don't know how many EVE players play alone or in NPC Corps or in 1 man Corps just because of that said "rule" but CCP Dev team, sure, have the answer and, if they don't bother much in changing it is because they think is working as intended.
Once, when I left EVE for the 1st time, back in 2010 I guess, I answered a survey saying why I was leaving the game. It changed nothing and I'm back. I can't stay away from EVE more than 6 months, but I know a lot of people that don't come back and I miss them all. Player retention is a problem? CCP have that answer as well.
If your balls are hurt and bleeding don't sit in a pool full of piranhas (note to myself: don't complain in GD)
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Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
284
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Posted - 2015.02.14 21:51:47 -
[60] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:even though they live in a state that protects their right to privacy in their letters and other communication, which includes criminal penalties if violated (fines and prison time), that they can come here and create a system that not only entirely disregards my right to this, does this while I'm paying them money, and then blames me should anything untoward occur. I am fairly certain that the law in Iceland does not protect you or CCP from the risk that anyone you send mail to, electronic or physical, might publish your mutual communications.
When someone shares messages you have sent them with someone else, trough the API or otherwise, it is between you and them and CCP has nothing to do with it and should not have anything to do with it. |
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