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Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2015.02.15 22:38:46 -
[1] - Quote
There are many players who never or very rarely venture out of high security space. One reason may be that the hisec/losec boundary is such a steep transition in risk; an unprovoked PvP attack in 0.5 is suicide due to CONCORD protection, but in 0.4 there is no CONCORD response at all. At the same time, 0.4 space offers only slightly better rewards than 0.5.
The situation might be improved by a more gradual scale of CONCORD response, such as:
High Security (0.7 to 1.0): a CONCORD spawn of two cruisers and one battleship respond to any illegal attack in 6-10 seconds, depending on system security status. If the attacker evades destruction of their ship by CONCORD, it is considered an exploit. (same as current rules)
Medium Security (0.4 to 0.6): CONCORD will respond to illegal aggression in 15-25 seconds, depending on security status, but only if the defender has not returned fire. The CONCORD spawn has two cruisers only, and they will press their attack on the aggressor only while the defender remains on grid and has not returned fire. It is NOT considered an exploit for the aggressor to avoid ship destruction in these systems.
Low Security (0.1 to 0.3): CONCORD will respond to illegal aggression in 30-60 seconds, depending on security status, but only if the defender has not returned fire, and only in the vicinity of stargates and stations. The spawn has only one cruiser, and will press its attack only while the defender remains on grid and has not returned fire. It is NOT considered an exploit for the aggressor to avoid ship destruction in these systems.
Popup warnings would appear at both the high-medium and medium-low boundaries, explaining the change in CONCORD protection in the destination system. |
Mag's
the united
19045
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:01:35 -
[2] - Quote
Ahh it's another 'I want Concord in low sec' thread. How original.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:05:09 -
[3] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Ahh it's another 'I want Concord in low sec' thread. How original.
Yes, but it also severely nerfs CONCORD in much of high sec. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
739
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:06:25 -
[4] - Quote
Please brush up on CONCORD mechanics before posting about them.
as well I can already kill a ship and warp off well b4 concord shows up in a .6 all this dose is have LS start at .6 rather than .4 and puts slow insta poping gate guns everywhere rather than just on gates. Why insta popping you ask? because thats how CONCORD weapons work
your change just puts favor on large alpha ganks and removes most risk in preforming a hostile action below .7
as well your post is redundant
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Mag's
the united
19046
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:16:41 -
[5] - Quote
Drez Arthie wrote:Mag's wrote:Ahh it's another 'I want Concord in low sec' thread. How original. Yes, but it also severely nerfs CONCORD in much of high sec. Please. You've merely move a few goal posts up to .6 and looked at nerfing play styles in low sec.
We do NOT need more NPC hand holding. It's detrimental to player interaction.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:18:18 -
[6] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: as well I can already kill a ship and warp off well b4 concord shows up in a .6 all this dose is have LS start at .6 rather than .4 and puts slow insta poping gate guns everywhere rather than just on gates. Why insta popping you ask? because thats how CONCORD weapons work
I thought only the CONCORD battleship had "insta popping" fire, not the cruisers.
Quote:your change just moves the drop off to entering .6 systems rather than entering .4
Yes, but not as steep a drop off as we have today.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
741
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:18:50 -
[7] - Quote
Mag's wrote:]Please. You've merely move a few goal posts up to .6 and looked at nerfing play styles in low sec.
We do NOT need more NPC hand holding. It's detrimental to player interaction.
IDK everyone who currently lives in .5-.6 would have to move up to 1.0-.7 i'm sure that would cause a bit more interaction right?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
741
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:20:28 -
[8] - Quote
Drez Arthie wrote:Quote:your change just moves the drop off to entering .6 systems rather than entering .4 Yes, but not as steep a drop off as we have today.
no it's just as steep it goes from "can't be killed freely" to "can be killed freely"
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Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no it's just as steep it goes from "can't be killed freely" to "can be killed freely"
Then you believe there can be no middle ground between these extremes?
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
1060
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:30:25 -
[10] - Quote
Drez Arthie wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no it's just as steep it goes from "can't be killed freely" to "can be killed freely"
Then you believe there can be no middle ground between these extremes?
Basically. Highsec is already the middle ground between "Can't be killed" and "Can be killed freely" Always ask "How would the EVE playerbase break my suggestion, and what would the result be?
Being able to get away from concord without it being an exploit just means that as long as you have enough people to kill it in the 15-25 second window, you can kill anything, then warp away to a POS and not lose your ship. Then rinse and repeat in 15 minutes somewhere else in system to draw concord to that location, then back to site A to kill someone else. Rinse and repeat.
Hence why your suggestion for .5 and .6 space is useless. Anyone with a handful of friends and some Talos's could interdict all the traffic they wanted to as long as they had enough people to kill a freighter in 15 seconds.
So Niarja? An Eudema? Might as well be lowsec to freighter pilots and bowhead pilots, and anyone in a ship that looks like it might we worth the ammo and piddling sec hit. So all haulers and missioning ships and all faction ships. |
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Mag's
the united
19046
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:35:08 -
[11] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Mag's wrote:]Please. You've merely move a few goal posts up to .6 and looked at nerfing play styles in low sec.
We do NOT need more NPC hand holding. It's detrimental to player interaction. IDK everyone who currently lives in .5-.6 would have to move up to 1.0-.7 i'm sure that would cause a bit more interaction right? Yes ganking is player interaction, but we already have that in high. This change does nothing but screw over low and increase ganking in high. But not in a good way.
Concord is a necessary evil in high sec. It should remain there only.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
742
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:35:59 -
[12] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Drez Arthie wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no it's just as steep it goes from "can't be killed freely" to "can be killed freely"
Then you believe there can be no middle ground between these extremes? Basically. Highsec is already the middle ground between "Can't be killed" and "Can be killed freely" Always ask "How would the EVE playerbase break my suggestion, and what would the result be? Being able to get away from concord without it being an exploit just means that as long as you have enough people to kill it in the 15-25 second window, you can kill anything, then warp away to a POS and not lose your ship. Then rinse and repeat in 15 minutes somewhere else in system to draw concord to that location, then back to site A to kill someone else. Rinse and repeat. Hence why your suggestion for .5 and .6 space is useless. Anyone with a handful of friends and some Talos's could interdict all the traffic they wanted to as long as they had enough people to kill a freighter in 15 seconds. So Niarja? An Eudema? Might as well be lowsec to freighter pilots and bowhead pilots, and anyone in a ship that looks like it might we worth the ammo and piddling sec hit. So all haulers and missioning ships and all faction ships.
as well as any shuttle or noob frig that just happens to pass someone bored.
currently the jump from HS to LS isn't as extreem as it is made out to be there are only a few more skills you need to learn b4 you start using it to move across and then just a tiny bit extra to start living there.
the "steep curve" is mostly phantom the only major change is going from AFK to actvily watching D-scan and learning what ship can kill you and what ships you can kill
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Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:53:01 -
[13] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:
Being able to get away from concord without it being an exploit just means that as long as you have enough people to kill it in the 15-25 second window, you can kill anything, then warp away to a POS and not lose your ship. Then rinse and repeat in 15 minutes somewhere else in system to draw concord to that location, then back to site A to kill someone else. Rinse and repeat.
Hence why your suggestion for .5 and .6 space is useless. Anyone with a handful of friends and some Talos's could interdict all the traffic they wanted to as long as they had enough people to kill a freighter in 15 seconds.
So Niarja? An Eudema? Might as well be lowsec to freighter pilots and bowhead pilots, and anyone in a ship that looks like it might we worth the ammo and piddling sec hit. So all haulers and missioning ships and all faction ships.
That doesn't sound so terrible. It would take more effort to set up an interdiction in "medium sec" than it does currently to set up a gate camp in low sec, and the high sec residents would have more incentive to respond with a fleet of their own, or provide their freighters and bowheads with a strong combat escort. Isn't that the kind of game we want? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
744
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:59:58 -
[14] - Quote
Drez Arthie wrote:Anhenka wrote:
Being able to get away from concord without it being an exploit just means that as long as you have enough people to kill it in the 15-25 second window, you can kill anything, then warp away to a POS and not lose your ship. Then rinse and repeat in 15 minutes somewhere else in system to draw concord to that location, then back to site A to kill someone else. Rinse and repeat.
Hence why your suggestion for .5 and .6 space is useless. Anyone with a handful of friends and some Talos's could interdict all the traffic they wanted to as long as they had enough people to kill a freighter in 15 seconds.
So Niarja? An Eudema? Might as well be lowsec to freighter pilots and bowhead pilots, and anyone in a ship that looks like it might we worth the ammo and piddling sec hit. So all haulers and missioning ships and all faction ships.
That doesn't sound so terrible. It would take more effort to set up an interdiction in "medium sec" than it does currently to set up a gate camp in low sec, and the high sec residents would have more incentive to respond with a fleet of their own, or provide their freighters and bowheads with a strong combat escort. Isn't that the kind of game we want?
no it doesn't it just means you would need larger more tanked ships such as high buffer cruisers or BBs to camp a gate rather than basic cruisers. and all transport would just be done in JFs. your idea works in a game where no one has friends or alts but not in eve
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
1060
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Posted - 2015.02.16 00:05:26 -
[15] - Quote
Drez Arthie wrote:Anhenka wrote:
Being able to get away from concord without it being an exploit just means that as long as you have enough people to kill it in the 15-25 second window, you can kill anything, then warp away to a POS and not lose your ship. Then rinse and repeat in 15 minutes somewhere else in system to draw concord to that location, then back to site A to kill someone else. Rinse and repeat.
Hence why your suggestion for .5 and .6 space is useless. Anyone with a handful of friends and some Talos's could interdict all the traffic they wanted to as long as they had enough people to kill a freighter in 15 seconds.
So Niarja? An Eudema? Might as well be lowsec to freighter pilots and bowhead pilots, and anyone in a ship that looks like it might we worth the ammo and piddling sec hit. So all haulers and missioning ships and all faction ships.
That doesn't sound so terrible. It would take more effort to set up an interdiction in "medium sec" than it does currently to set up a gate camp in low sec, and the high sec residents would have more incentive to respond with a fleet of their own, or provide their freighters and bowheads with a strong combat escort. Isn't that the kind of game we want?
No. You are inventing from whole cloth the legions of organized high sec players who want to provide huge escorts to freighters and mission runners large enough to prevent people from shitting all over all freight traffic.
If they had that level of cooperation on that scale, THEY WOULDN'T BE IN HIGHSEC.
No, what would happen is groups like Marmite or nullsec dayrippers would camp .5 and .6 systems and trash everything that moved, until all highsec activity was clustered around the very upper end of the scale. The highsec economy would collapse, and it would become a massive pain in the ass to do anything.
Highsec players don't magically organize into groups of players willing to escort freighters around with 30 man support fleets.
You know what they do when subjected to massive oppression? They Quit.
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Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1802
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Posted - 2015.02.16 00:06:47 -
[16] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Drez Arthie wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no it's just as steep it goes from "can't be killed freely" to "can be killed freely"
Then you believe there can be no middle ground between these extremes? Basically. Highsec is already the middle ground between "Can't be killed" and "Can be killed freely" with it's absolutely ship destruction rule. As to your idea, always ask "How would the EVE playerbase break my suggestion, and what would the result be?" Being able to get away from concord without it being an exploit just means that as long as you have enough people to kill it in the 15-25 second window, you can kill anything, then warp away to a POS and not lose your ship. Then rinse and repeat in 15 minutes somewhere else in system to draw concord to that location, then back to site A to kill someone else. Rinse and repeat. Hence why your suggestion for .5 and .6 space is useless. Anyone with a handful of friends and some Talos's could interdict all the traffic they wanted to as long as they had enough people to kill a freighter in 15 seconds. So Niarja? An Eudema? Might as well be lowsec to freighter pilots and bowhead pilots, and anyone in a ship that looks like it might we worth the ammo and piddling sec hit. So all haulers and missioning ships and all faction ships. Niarja isnt already lowsec?
i kid, i kid, but seriously, buddy of mine loses a freighter or bestower EVERY SINGLE TIME he goes into niarja |
Lugh Crow-Slave
744
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Posted - 2015.02.16 00:09:13 -
[17] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:
Highsec players don't magically organize into groups of players willing to escort freighters around with 30 man support fleets.
You know what they do when subjected to massive oppression? They Quit.
this isn't true me and my friends are gunna get together and start an alliance that ganks gankers and provides mining and freighter escorts trust me in just a few months CODE will just give up
Nariya Kentaya wrote: Niarja isnt already lowsec?
i kid, i kid, but seriously, buddy of mine loses a freighter or bestower EVERY SINGLE TIME he goes into niarja
sounds like that guy needs to learn what a web is and how to scout
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
155
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Posted - 2015.02.16 04:49:25 -
[18] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Anhenka wrote:
Highsec players don't magically organize into groups of players willing to escort freighters around with 30 man support fleets.
You know what they do when subjected to massive oppression? They Quit.
this isn't true me and my friends are gunna get together and start an alliance that ganks gankers and provides mining and freighter escorts trust me in just a few months CODE will just give up Nariya Kentaya wrote: Niarja isnt already lowsec?
i kid, i kid, but seriously, buddy of mine loses a freighter or bestower EVERY SINGLE TIME he goes into niarja
sounds like that guy needs to learn what a web is and how to scout Or stay the hell out of Niarja.
People do not go to low sec because they do not want to be there and the transition of low to high has nothing to do with this. There would still be gate camps on the most often used routes between high and low. Your idea simply destroys the play style in two regions of space, a play style that many enjoy. And for this destruction of playing styles all you offer is to make the player in .5 and .6 systems even larger and easier to gank targets. On gets the feeling from this idea that your real motive here is to increase the number of gank trargets and to make ganking them easier while giving you the ability to avoid the punishment for doing so.
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Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
625
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Posted - 2015.02.16 04:53:32 -
[19] - Quote
Congratulations, you've just killed EvE. |
Claud Tiberius
Fidelas Constans
97
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Posted - 2015.02.16 04:58:34 -
[20] - Quote
Mag's wrote:We do NOT need more NPC hand holding. It's detrimental to player interaction. Coalitions or mega corps/alliances are also detrimental to player interaction. NPC intervention (generally speaking) could spice things up.
Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
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Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2015.02.16 14:26:29 -
[21] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote: So all of us who go into FW space looking for fights - We will get popped for engaging in fights? I already have to deal with penalties for being the aggressor on gates and stations, let alone security status hits.
It's proposed CONCORD would not intervene if the defender shoots back for just this reason.
Quote:Now, if I want to be successful - all I have to do is tank my ship, get someone to attack me and watch them die?
Good point. Say CONCORD also doesn't warp scramble in low and "medium" sec. If the defender never shoots back and his tank is holding, then the attacker can just warp away.
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Anthar Thebess
867
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Posted - 2015.02.16 14:36:50 -
[22] - Quote
Better. Concord Spawn in 0.8-1.0 Militia Spawns in 0.5 -0.7(no concord response , but concord officers located on each gate) |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
194
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Posted - 2015.02.16 14:42:11 -
[23] - Quote
I don't leave hisec because everytime I have ive seen nothing but politics and blues fighting blues, and been involved in killing those blues that have initiated it, not to mention the countless cloakies afks that have you to busy looking over your shoulder if your corp/alliance aren't killboardNazi's demending all to be docked when a non-blue pilot shows up.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1386
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Posted - 2015.02.16 14:45:57 -
[24] - Quote
There already is a "medium security space". That space exists in 0.1-0.4 within range of gate/station guns. Any aggressive act occurring within range of them gets a swift, powerful, and perfectly tracking response.
True "low security space" is everywhere else in 0.1-0.4 systems.
My Many Misadventures
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I seek to create content, not become content.
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3504
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Posted - 2015.02.16 15:20:20 -
[25] - Quote
Agondray wrote:I don't leave hisec because everytime I have ive seen nothing but politics and blues fighting blues, and been involved in killing those blues that have initiated it, not to mention the countless cloakies afks that have you to busy looking over your shoulder if your corp/alliance aren't killboardNazi's demending all to be docked when a non-blue pilot shows up.
It sounds, my friend, as if you have not discovered the regions between highsec and sov null that are lowsec and NPC null. |
Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2015.02.16 16:53:45 -
[26] - Quote
Agondray wrote:I don't leave hisec because everytime I have ive seen nothing but politics and blues fighting blues, and been involved in killing those blues that have initiated it, not to mention the countless cloakies afks that have you to busy looking over your shoulder if your corp/alliance aren't killboardNazi's demending all to be docked when a non-blue pilot shows up.
Interesting observation. Maybe players stay in high security space not because of general risk aversion, but because you need organization to survive in low/null, and they don't like playing in large groups.
EDIT: or at least they perceive it that way |
Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
1064
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Posted - 2015.02.16 17:06:52 -
[27] - Quote
Drez Arthie wrote:Sean Parisi wrote: So all of us who go into FW space looking for fights - We will get popped for engaging in fights? I already have to deal with penalties for being the aggressor on gates and stations, let alone security status hits.
It's proposed CONCORD would not intervene if the defender shoots back for just this reason. Quote:Now, if I want to be successful - all I have to do is tank my ship, get someone to attack me and watch them die? Good point. Say CONCORD also doesn't warp scramble in low and "medium" sec. If the defender never shoots back and his tank is holding, then the attacker can just warp away.
On the first point: So If someone in current lowsec gets jumped by what is not a fight they think they win, they just try to survive for 30 seconds till concord shows up?
Or if you implement the second, now you don't even need to worry about getting out before concord arrive when repeatedly ganking freighters with the same ship in Eudama, just warp out when concord starts chewing into you. Hell you could just take a fleet of Tornados, and warp from gate to gate alphaing targets and warping off. Don't even need to care if concord is still on grid with your target anymore.
I really didn't you could make your idea worse. But you managed it. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
1226
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Posted - 2015.02.16 17:13:02 -
[28] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Agondray wrote:I don't leave hisec because everytime I have ive seen nothing but politics and blues fighting blues, and been involved in killing those blues that have initiated it, not to mention the countless cloakies afks that have you to busy looking over your shoulder if your corp/alliance aren't killboardNazi's demending all to be docked when a non-blue pilot shows up. It sounds, my friend, as if you have not discovered the regions between highsec and sov null that are lowsec and NPC null. Trust me, there's a lot of politics going on in NPC 00 and Low sec. More even than in Sov because there are more diverse, although smaller, groups close together.
Station Tab :: Agent Shuffling :: Double Standing Gain
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Wolf Lafisques
Omega Biomass Collection
0
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Posted - 2015.02.16 18:27:59 -
[29] - Quote
I like my hisec to be hisec and my lowsec to be lowsec. Non of this middle sec bulls**t. I think the current system is set up well. Police AND navy are in hisec, navy is in lowsec, and nobody is coming to save your a** in nullsec. And I think that the response time and effectiveness taper off at a nice rate. |
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