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Mag's
the united
19057
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Posted - 2015.02.17 08:50:22 -
[121] - Quote
Sisohiv wrote:The only thing that bothers me about this now is, anyone mining in a Hulk is a return player who didn't get the memo, they are trash ships.
Most every belt I see now has Proc's, Macki's and Skiffs in them. I'm sure the ganker tears will start to flow a little heavier sooner than later as the easy kills dry up. The ganking of barges was already at an all time low, years ago. That particular ship has sailed. (pun intended)
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2363
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Posted - 2015.02.17 08:59:40 -
[122] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Prove that gankers actually go to low or null. You can't, and I can't prove they don't.
Look at my killboard. You'll see highsec suicide ganks, lowsec piracy and a stupid orca loss there, another stupid orca loss in a wormhole (but any dead orca is a good orca, so it's OK) and you'll see some nullsec stuff, too. So, yes, you absolutely can prove that gankers go to other parts of space.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Anthar Thebess
870
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Posted - 2015.02.17 09:04:42 -
[123] - Quote
Higsec is dangerous space. So many pilots around trying to kill you
After years in nullsec i am bit afraid to fly in higsec. Who knows when your ship will insta pof because of ~tornado.
Balance gankers vs carebears was heavily broken when destroyers and almost all gun dps got boosted, and ships like tornado or talos leave assembly lines.
Still CCP have more important stuff to take care of now. Carrier rebalance ( aka no capital reps without triage) , sov and nullsec changes.
Love you CCP , and the way you keep your word.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2364
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Posted - 2015.02.17 09:11:57 -
[124] - Quote
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:1. It is silly for -10's to be able to dock in High sec stations...or even -5's.
The people who decide your sec status are nothing to do with the powerful mega corporations who own the stations. Said corporations want your business and really don't give a damn about what you get up to in space, providing you're not doing it to them.
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:2. It is total BS to think/claim that ganking random EMPTY or very low value cargo carrying freighters has a potential for profit, it's griefing.
In addition to the excellent points raised by Cancel Align NOW, not everyone can be bothered to scan before they shoot. Zkillboard offers plenty of evidence as to why it's perfectly reasonable to blow up a ship just in case it has a decent loot table.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Josef Djugashvilis
2885
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Posted - 2015.02.17 09:18:40 -
[125] - Quote
Ganking miners, or indeed anyone is a perfectly valid play-style choice, no more no less.
If CCP did not like it, they would do something about it.
This is not a signature.
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Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
691
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Posted - 2015.02.17 09:26:19 -
[126] - Quote
i will just put this here. Since this thread has quickly become redundant
CSM 10: Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Chance Ravinne, Jenshae chrioptera
Do No Vote For: Tora Bushido, Bobmon
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Hiasa Kite
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
213
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Posted - 2015.02.17 10:28:25 -
[127] - Quote
DESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESU
People to vote for CSM X(in order): Sabriz Adoudel, Cagali Cagali, Steve Ronuken, Manfred Sideous, Mike Azariah, Gorski Car
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Sola Mercury
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
64
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Posted - 2015.02.17 11:00:15 -
[128] - Quote
From a miners view, every gank, not causing YOUR ship to get destroyed is good.
- Less competition is good for business
- Ships need to be destroyed to be repalced, causing mineral needs
- Sometimes ganks leads to quality posts much like the OP
So a miner can either fly a ship less prone to ganks compared to the barge next door e.g. procurer or count the losses as opportunity costs. |
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
500
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Posted - 2015.02.17 14:35:29 -
[129] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:*dodges onslaught of "EVE ain't safe nowheres*
You were just a victim of "content creation". You weren't creating content by playing. Nooooo. THEY were creating content by ganking you. It's how CCP welcomed the WoW refugees. CCP is the only one that did. All other games in the world just told them to learn this isn't WoW. But, ganking in the minds of CCP is some sort of genius on the fly. One has to wonder. Not about gankers. We all know what they are, but CCP....then, I digress.
Sorry for your loss. You'll know better now. To all others. Don't come in here and speak about it! Free speech here means, any criticism of this infantile idiocy means you'll be accused of being a VICTIM! YES! It's true! In fact, consider GD the grease trap of the internet....that little crook in your sink drain.. I've met crime victims that weren't as angry as this guy is about a video game. If you don't like EVE, it's community or CCP, what does that make you for paying for it (as you obviously are seeing as how you can post here)? You a bit delusional maybe? Or, do you just make things up as you go along?
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
942
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Posted - 2015.02.17 14:55:59 -
[130] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Null Sec done right is actually the safest place to mine. aka with your intel channels open. That's one tool that can help, but not essential. I have an alt mining in Syndicate right now so that character can build a Moros for me. Just a Procurer. Nothing else. The amount of trying to convince the game population that you guys mine in low/null and therefore deserve to desecrate the highsec population at will is startling. Do any of us carebears start claiming to be gankers on our mains or something? Do you think anyone cares how much veld you crush in whatever region you are in, doesn't make your vision for the game any more palpable. Ummm .... no. Go through my kill board, try find an indy or miner kill. Have a look through my post history, I talk about things that make high sec more challenging and things that give miners more tools to protect themselves. Particularly look at my CSM thread in signature.
I am not and I repeat this, I am not trying to flush newbies out of high sec and into low or null sec to be slaughtered by gate campers.
We haven't got it quite right yet but I guess I will describe how Null Sec mining can work:
1) Yes, first of all you need intel channels open because some ships can warp across systems stupidly fast and you need a few systems warning to be able to react. 2) You need people able to re-ship to instant locking pairs (with remote boosters) to grab interceptors and cloakers for the others to murder. 3) You have a dead end system or a pocket, you dock up and overwhelm when you re-ship or you call in a larger fleet than them, trap and slaughter them. 4) Go around ship scanning your fleet members, there are always a few with asteroid scanner (put those on your hauler) or who are going for max yield and gimping their tank. 5) Forget about Mackinaws, Retrievers and Covetors, they are a waste of time. The gain on yield vs the tank is useless. Skiffs or Procurers are your bread and butter, Hulks are good for well orchastrated operations.
6) Operations i ) Make sure everyone is together (not too close for bombs but close enough to be under the drones "umbrella" ii ) Have a few haulers with tanks. iii ) Have eyes spread wide and have PVPers ratting in PVP ships in squads, loot and salvage goes to funds, they aren't so bored and they can warp directly to a gate for a fast response. iv ) Drones in just in case you are bombed v) Shield doctrine, do not split your logi
When all else fails if you are solo mining such as in a worm hole, make two warp off points that are off grid from your asteroid belt and slow boat at 76% speed between them. Drop jet cans along the way. Use a hauler with tractor beams, sensory boosters and aligned to a random safe that you can then ping at an oblique angle to your POS.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Mary Killigrew
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.02.17 15:02:05 -
[131] - Quote
Excellent OP. 11/10 would read again. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
942
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Posted - 2015.02.17 15:10:12 -
[132] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt, I also mailed you some battle reports where CODE. had a 97% ISK failure and the only thing they caught was a procurer stuck on the invisible part of an asteroid. Not to mention a fantastically awful Goons hot drop that was pretty even on ISK (we won slightly) but a huge victory for our moral. We almost caught and killed one of their black ops battle ships (killed loads of bombers). We do have a plan for next time that should guaranteed a few Blops BSes kills.
There are two problems with EVE and mining:
1) Your best strategy is to dock up or die (this breeds risk aversion) 2) There aren't many tools to stand and fight.
So, after they start their mining lives in high sec, they learn that all they will do is lose if they try fight. Gankers convince them to avoid any conflict at all and to just keep jumping corporations, systems and getting to safe places.
It takes months of small victories to build up their confidence and it is a ridiculous struggle to get them to believe that players can actually protect them. They think that it will be like Concord. They are so conditioned into a loser's mentality by high sec ... it really terrible and some horrible game design.
Condord is retribution NOT protection.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
942
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Posted - 2015.02.17 15:15:55 -
[133] - Quote
Sola Mercury wrote:From a miners view, every gank, not causing YOUR ship to get destroyed is good.
- Less competition is good for business
- Ships need to be destroyed to be repalced, causing mineral needs
- Sometimes ganks leads to quality posts much like the OP
So a miner can either fly a ship less prone to ganks compared to the barge next door e.g. procurer or count the losses as opportunity costs. From a null miner's view:
- Every kill brings more reds, especially easy ones where people are in expensive paper bags.
- Miners destroyed is wasted time when you have huge project that require endless amounts of ore.
- Often ganks lead to videos of utter failure where we all, PVP, miners, ratters gather around and laugh ourselves silly at how they have so much in their advantage and still can't get it right.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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UberFly
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2015.02.17 17:31:55 -
[134] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:For the knockout punch, go check my killboard. You'll find I'm not a highsec ganker at all. But I certainly agree with them and anyone (like Jenn aside) that think that no play style is above any other and no play style should be nerfed because of the endless whinging of others. Now that is funny as hell, Jenn spends a lot of his/her time whinging about his/her play style and how it should be nerf'd. "CCP needs to fix burner missions and incursions, because I make too much isk doing them!!!" LOL |
UberFly
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2015.02.17 17:44:49 -
[135] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote: Carrier rebalance ( aka no capital reps without triage) That has got to be one of the worst ideas I've ever read. Someone slow-cat you out of existence or you just really hate spider-tanking archons? I guess you'd be all for making Basilisks run triage modules that would make them stay still, and keep them from getting cap/rep from each other? |
Chop Shops
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.02.17 18:31:13 -
[136] - Quote
Well...
You learned a lot there...
1. Highsec is only safer, not safe 2. Kill rights need to be activated 3. How the agression timer works (Be lucky, it cost me one of MY Battleships, you learned it by your corpmate loosing one) 4. If you undock, cosider you ship lost, and rejoyce once you manage to dock (<- Thats TONs Of positive emotions vs one sad one if you loose it) - Also know as Rule 1 of eve: Dont fly what you cant afford to loose (I think its Rule one... Rule 2 was trust noone? Or did i get them mixed up?)
Overall this was a cheap lesson...
And I am sure you were offered a sweet deal for only 10M after your ship got blown up ;) |
I am providence
Viziam Amarr Empire
37
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Posted - 2015.02.17 19:53:44 -
[137] - Quote
Chop Shops wrote:And I am sure you were offered a sweet deal for only 10M after your ship got blown up ;)
Unfortunatly, not all gankers are agents of CODE. Nevertheless, we can be sure a mining-permit would help prevent future incidents.
My Blog (german): http://theevevirus.wordpress.com/
Trader, Producer and a terrible wannabee-PvP-hero.
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Lefty Lulu
The Free Fighters of Bullshoda Independent Operators Consortium
2
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Posted - 2015.02.17 20:47:07 -
[138] - Quote
Through all the pumping out of chests and tiresome smack talk, it all boils down to this. It's about cowards getting cheap kills the only way cowards know, by seeking out the peaceful.
Eve is approaching anarchy. Good luck with that. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
2370
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Posted - 2015.02.17 20:57:26 -
[139] - Quote
Lefty Lulu wrote:Through all the pumping out of chests and tiresome smack talk, it all boils down to this. It's about cowards getting cheap kills the only way cowards know, by seeking out the peaceful.
Gimme your stuff, WoW is that way --->.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9814
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Posted - 2015.02.17 23:43:48 -
[140] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:*dodges onslaught of "EVE ain't safe nowheres*
You were just a victim of "content creation". You weren't creating content by playing. Nooooo. THEY were creating content by ganking you. It's how CCP welcomed the WoW refugees. CCP is the only one that did. All other games in the world just told them to learn this isn't WoW. But, ganking in the minds of CCP is some sort of genius on the fly. One has to wonder. Not about gankers. We all know what they are, but CCP....then, I digress.
Sorry for your loss. You'll know better now. To all others. Don't come in here and speak about it! Free speech here means, any criticism of this infantile idiocy means you'll be accused of being a VICTIM! YES! It's true! In fact, consider GD the grease trap of the internet....that little crook in your sink drain.. I've met crime victims that weren't as angry as this guy is about a video game. If you don't like EVE, it's community or CCP, what does that make you for paying for it (as you obviously are seeing as how you can post here)? You a bit delusional maybe? Or, do you just make things up as you go along?
Your dislike of CCP is so obvious, your post is like a person being both a militant vegan and a member of PETA while every night going to a STEAK HOUSE complaining to people eating Steak that meat is murder....all the while ordering and paying for drinks and salads from the STEAK HOUSE thus helping this place (that you can't stand) stay in business.
You're paying a game company you hate to make a game with a community you can't stand and somehow I'm the delusional one. Brilliant. |
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9814
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Posted - 2015.02.17 23:47:26 -
[141] - Quote
Lefty Lulu wrote:Through all the pumping out of chests and tiresome smack talk, it all boils down to this. It's about cowards getting cheap kills the only way cowards know, by seeking out the peaceful.
Eve is approaching anarchy. Good luck with that.
EVE IS anarchy.
The point that's hard for many of us to understand is that if you want 'peaceful', why in the seven hells would you pick a game that has universal non-consensual pvp (non-consensual sandbox pvp games always attract people other games would call 'griefers') and has been advertised as a hive of villainy since at least 2003?
It's like someone going to a Hoe house and being shock (SHOCKED I tell you) at all the Hoeing goin down. WTF do you expect?
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
63
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Posted - 2015.02.17 23:51:07 -
[142] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Lefty Lulu wrote:Through all the pumping out of chests and tiresome smack talk, it all boils down to this. It's about cowards getting cheap kills the only way cowards know, by seeking out the peaceful.
Eve is approaching anarchy. Good luck with that. EVE IS anarchy. The point that's hard for many of us to understand is that if you want 'peaceful', why in the seven hells would you pick a game that has universal non-consensual pvp (non-consensual sandbox pvp games always attract people other games would call 'griefers') and has been advertised as a hive of villainy since at least 2003? It's like someone going to a Hoe house and being shock (SHOCKED I tell you) at all the Hoeing goin down. WTF do you expect?
No one is taking away your precious non-consensual pvp. We are asking that Criminals be treated as such.
Your example of the hoe house is spot on, no one should be shocked there is hoeing going down, but neither should the man getting the hoe be shocked at his doctor bill for medical treatment afterwards.
We are asking that if you insist on screwing everything that moves in high-sec, that you have to take some penicillin when you are done. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9814
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Posted - 2015.02.18 00:01:05 -
[143] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Lefty Lulu wrote:Through all the pumping out of chests and tiresome smack talk, it all boils down to this. It's about cowards getting cheap kills the only way cowards know, by seeking out the peaceful.
Eve is approaching anarchy. Good luck with that. EVE IS anarchy. The point that's hard for many of us to understand is that if you want 'peaceful', why in the seven hells would you pick a game that has universal non-consensual pvp (non-consensual sandbox pvp games always attract people other games would call 'griefers') and has been advertised as a hive of villainy since at least 2003? It's like someone going to a Hoe house and being shock (SHOCKED I tell you) at all the Hoeing goin down. WTF do you expect? No one is taking away your precious non-consensual pvp. We are asking that Criminals be treated as such. Your example of the hoe house is spot on, no one should be shocked there is hoeing going down, but neither should the man getting the hoe be shocked at his doctor bill for medical treatment afterwards. We are asking that if you insist on screwing everything that moves in high-sec, that you have to take some penicillin when you are done.
And they do. The things gankers (and all other 'bad guys) have to do to keep going far exceeds the amount of effort it takes me to dock, turn in my mission, get another and undock (all the effort in PVE is in the front end, getting standings or learning skills or making the isk for that mining ship or incursion boat). As a PVE player, I can acknowledge this and thus have no desire to 'meta game' nerfs against them. The game gives me all the tools I need to defeat 'bad guys' in EVE and I've done so for 8 years.
After those 8 years my 'loses' to the bad guys are:
-Bought a 100 mil t1 hauler in Rens because I was stupid and in a hurry.
-A few Proators to low sec gate camping pirates
-1 Ratting Vindicator to an Awoxxer in Fountain
And that's it , despite the fact that I've played most days for the last 2,920 days. Meanwhile, overtly jealous, lazy and uncreative types are losing to the 'bad guys' all day every day, and instead of engaging brain to find individual solutions, they run to the forums and couch their unreasonable metagame lobby attempts as 'fairness' and 'balance'.
It's really just weakness. You should stop pretending otherwise. Evading and otherwise embarrassing the 'Bad Guys' is content for real EVe non-PVP players, when you try to nerf them for your own comfort, you are nerfing ALL of us who don't want or need such help from CCP.
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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
3813
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Posted - 2015.02.18 02:19:52 -
[144] - Quote
Just shoot gankers. Most have negative crim sec status and are shootable on sight in high sec. It's much fun, they don't cry about it, and the smack talk is much enjoyable for everybody. It's a great hobby.
"My mule don't like laughing. You can apologize to my mule and can be alright."
-The Man with No Name
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15019
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Posted - 2015.02.18 04:45:40 -
[145] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Lefty Lulu wrote:Through all the pumping out of chests and tiresome smack talk, it all boils down to this. It's about cowards getting cheap kills the only way cowards know, by seeking out the peaceful.
Eve is approaching anarchy. Good luck with that. EVE IS anarchy. The point that's hard for many of us to understand is that if you want 'peaceful', why in the seven hells would you pick a game that has universal non-consensual pvp (non-consensual sandbox pvp games always attract people other games would call 'griefers') and has been advertised as a hive of villainy since at least 2003? It's like someone going to a Hoe house and being shock (SHOCKED I tell you) at all the Hoeing goin down. WTF do you expect? No one is taking away your precious non-consensual pvp. We are asking that Criminals be treated as such. Your example of the hoe house is spot on, no one should be shocked there is hoeing going down, but neither should the man getting the hoe be shocked at his doctor bill for medical treatment afterwards. We are asking that if you insist on screwing everything that moves in high-sec, that you have to take some penicillin when you are done.
I bet you dont even know what the risks and punishments are for ganking or how to gank either.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2005
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Posted - 2015.02.18 05:00:45 -
[146] - Quote
Also disregard the fact that they have been literally removing non-consensual PVP mechanics from the game. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
63
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Posted - 2015.02.18 05:21:29 -
[147] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Also disregard the fact that they have been literally removing non-consensual PVP mechanics from the game.
Really, tell me again how you can't lock anyone anywhere and shoot them at any time? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15019
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Posted - 2015.02.18 05:25:54 -
[148] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Also disregard the fact that they have been literally removing non-consensual PVP mechanics from the game. Really, tell me again how you can't lock anyone anywhere and shoot them at any time?
We used to be able to tank concord.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
63
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Posted - 2015.02.18 05:28:40 -
[149] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Also disregard the fact that they have been literally removing non-consensual PVP mechanics from the game. Really, tell me again how you can't lock anyone anywhere and shoot them at any time? We used to be able to tank concord.
We used to be able to fit 3 MWDs too... what is your point?
You used to have nothing that could alpha a cruiser, but weapons got buffed. Things change, adapt and overcome. Ganking is easier now than it has ever been with Nados, Talos, Catalysts and haulers having to pick between cargo and tank. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15019
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Posted - 2015.02.18 05:36:15 -
[150] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Also disregard the fact that they have been literally removing non-consensual PVP mechanics from the game. Really, tell me again how you can't lock anyone anywhere and shoot them at any time? We used to be able to tank concord. We used to be able to fit 3 MWDs too... what is your point? You used to have nothing that could alpha a cruiser, but weapons got buffed. Things change, adapt and overcome. Ganking is easier now than it has ever been with Nados, Talos, Catalysts and haulers having to pick between cargo and tank. Now you can have an Orca or Bowhead drop your regank ships. Now you don't even need to dock. Now stuff actually drops from hangers and you don't even need a pickup alt because an MTU can do it for you.
Acctually we did alpha cruisers, the change was they added more hp to all hulls to make fights last longer.
Right now ganking is at its lowest point, costs more than ever before, requires more people than ever before and targets have more defensive options than ever before.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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