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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22562
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Posted - 2015.02.22 00:31:26 -
[91] - Quote
Commander Spurty wrote:How about players fix it.
Are you SURROUNDED by so many blues, the NODE crashes when 5% of them are in local?
Yes? IT'S YOU that is the problem
No? Carry on waiting for the people above to wake up.
Expecting players to do the something at great expense to their wallets and their livelihood is a good formula for stagnation.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29986
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Posted - 2015.02.22 01:52:41 -
[92] - Quote
I love seeing all the people with a jump.... to conclusions mat
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9862
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Posted - 2015.02.22 03:25:27 -
[93] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Serene Repose wrote:knobber Jobbler wrote: ...large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull.... Sounds great, logically speaking (in a way), however; wildly inaccurate bordering on total fabrication. The "entrenchment" as you call it, began after folks solidified what they ended up with after BoB was removed. In other words....the entrenchment was already there. So Goonwaffle of you to put it that way, though. Maybe you didn't understand what he was saying. What a lot of us have been saying. Jump nerf didn't CAUSE stagnation it made it WORSE. Now The coalitions are guarding their territories with massive fleets of super capitals that even the other coalitions can't match in a timely manner. It's even hard (even with jump freighters) to do subcapital deployments. The point of it all is that is that as in the past, a change meant to help, HURT instead. No one is suggesting the jump changes caused anything new. Sorry, I can't hear you over the entertaining campaign I've just enjoyed. It came to an end when N3 decided to deply their full coalition down to Immensea for little ol' us, but that cost them a couple of supercap coathangerings back in Querious. You know. Exactly like it should. So i'm going to call a big fat "working as intended". The major sov holders are, as Endie correctly points out, waiting on the upcoming sov changes because there's not much point in launching major campaigns if there's a strong possibility that anything you gain might be invalidated. Essentially you're complaining about a guy getting open heart surgery, lying on the table with his chest cut open and saying "well he doesn't look much better to me".
If this is what is intended, then the intentions were the problem.
Waiting for sov changes is an excuse, and the conflicts you are talking about (and that both of us have just participated in) are different than pre-jump fatigue gud fights how exactly? The only thing that changed was existing groups using wormholes more (which means a few more hilarious wormhole killmails).
CCP didn't say jump fatigue was a cure all I know, but they DID say they expected it to help (I'm serious I had a post of GreyScale's all bookmarked and ready and will never get to use it lol). It hasn't helped. It hurt and people can feel that, especially the alliances that are now having participation problems (a few of which are resorting to PAP LINKS lol).
The same thinking that led to jump fatigue will probably be applied to the sov changes. If that happens things are going to get worse. What's needed is new thinking (even if that leads to the total removal of SOV, because it's probably the idea of SOV itself that is at the heart of the 'problem'). |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29986
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Posted - 2015.02.22 03:29:10 -
[94] - Quote
are you familiar with the sequence Malcanis described as coathangering?
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22610
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Posted - 2015.02.22 06:25:18 -
[95] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Malcanis wrote: The major sov holders are, as Endie correctly points out, waiting on the upcoming sov changes because there's not much point in launching major campaigns if there's a strong possibility that anything you gain might be invalidated.
Waiting for sov changes is an excuse, and the conflicts you are talking about (and that both of us have just participated in) are different than pre-jump fatigue gud fights how exactly?
Everyone is just waiting to switch to a healthier diet before they start their routine at the gym. Ever think about what bad excuses sound like? Waiting for SOV changes to start your gudfites in null is akin to waiting to undock until your skill points are high enough.
Expecting someone to behave in a completely different way, once they are accustomed to making risk averse rationalizations, is just wishful thinking.
Jenn aSide wrote:The same thinking that led to jump fatigue will probably be applied to the sov changes.
Given the total lack of disclosure so far, as well as the typical CCP "surprise, here's what we cooked up" policy, my expectations of the SOV revamp are low.
Still, I have moments of awe and wonder at what CCP can pull off, so I hope I'm totally wrong here.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6544
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Posted - 2015.02.22 06:33:03 -
[96] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:The same thinking that led to jump fatigue will probably be applied to the sov changes. Given the total lack of disclosure so far, as well as the typical CCP "surprise, here's what we cooked up" policy, my expectations of the SOV revamp are low. Still, I have moments of awe and wonder at what CCP can pull off, so I hope I'm totally wrong here. Perhaps they will dig up plans for sov fatigue...
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
514
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Posted - 2015.02.22 08:26:00 -
[97] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Swanky nutjob wrote:Waiting for sov change announcement. And yes, deploying in anything other than cruiser fleets via wormholes is tedious at best, trail of tears at worst. The phoebe changes didn't allow new entities to magically take up new sov space, didn't force anyone to contract, entrenched existing alliances with a supercap force and generally made EVE dull. People warned of this when it was announced but couldn't be heard over those who had no idea what they were talking about and just want a free pass to get sov space. Space aids needs to be toned down drastically. You mean apart from the CFC abandoning 3 regions and PL literally walking away from their holdings?
In both cases sold to some one else who wants to be the local police. On the flip side N3's renter empire is now most of the south. Blocs maybe waiting right now but isn't the only or main reason for the current boredom sweeping null. |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2015.02.22 13:35:34 -
[98] - Quote
After reading the various posts the take away is......
Null people are afraid to leave their zerg for fear of being shot at. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30243
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Posted - 2015.02.22 14:11:12 -
[99] - Quote
"Sov fatigue" lol I typed those words in scc-lounge chat as a joke. That was a thing ever?
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6546
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Posted - 2015.02.22 18:21:55 -
[100] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:"Sov fatigue" lol I typed those words in scc-lounge chat as a joke. That was a thing ever? Maybe they'll roll it out with csm approval after an improved... 13hours
Instead of 12 as with a related major change...
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Jarnis McPieksu
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
568
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Posted - 2015.02.23 09:36:27 -
[101] - Quote
What is this drivel?
Jump Fatigue has made the game better.
- More small entities in null, not getting instantly curbstomped. More "room" for real players as big coalitions are hard pressed to hold such vast areas any more.
- Fights stay more local. Third partying doesn't involve dropping 100 supercaps unless you are REALLY committed to that (and whole EVE will see you coming, probably hours in advance).
- Well organized groups can still move around and throw their weight around as needed. See: PL deployment to I6- - went there and back, only lost a couple of caps to drive-by DDs (grrr Gorgon Empire) - practically nothing considering the amount of ships that moved. Move ops not really a big deal if you organize and plan everything carefully and have clued-in pilots who know how to not mess themselves with excess Fatigue (this bit is probably hard for Goons).
- EVE feels properly big again. Going beyond 20 jumps from your staging is something you actually have to plan a bit... no more "we'll just suitcase here with carriers and then hop 5 jumps to destination in subcaps and blap things".
- Plenty of fights available. Especially in low sec where small groups actually throw caps around these days (no more instant super surprise from Amamake 30 seconds after someone undocks a carrier).
Yeah, there is no huge-ass sov war going on right now, but that's mostly due to BL/Solar folding instantly and that operation turning into a bulldozing exercise.
Goons should ask from their glorious leader why there is no war for you. Perhaps you have too much blue around you. PL is fighting every day in a target-rich environment. |
Siegfried Cohenberg
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2015.02.23 11:15:16 -
[102] - Quote
We don't even need to declare war. Come to Uedama and I'll pvp your freighter with my machariel. If by chance we get interrupted by a fleet of catalysts then I would just call that an environmental hazard. |
Miali Askulf
Black Rise Freight
1
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Posted - 2015.02.23 11:39:16 -
[103] - Quote
Being able to undock something larger than a cruiser and not have PL (not to pick on them specifically - they were just the most active) drop supers has by no means been a bad change. I don't think jump changes were ever expected to suddenly start a huge nullsec war - quite the opposite, the idea was to make long distance deployment much slower and enable more localised conflicts. That part at least has been reasonably successful I think. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
127
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Posted - 2015.02.23 12:46:46 -
[104] - Quote
Siegfried Cohenberg wrote:We don't even need to declare war. Come to Uedama and I'll pvp your freighter with my machariel. If by chance we get interrupted by a fleet of catalysts then I would just call that an environmental hazard.
Those darned catalyst fleets are always interrupting a good 1 v 1
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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