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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
5306
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:05:48 -
[1] - Quote
When new players join the wonderful world of EVE Online for the first time, they might get overwhelmed with information and might feel a bit lost or even confused. While there has been already good progress better informing new players about the rich and exciting possibilities and game play in EVE (lots is comfortably accessible to new players just hours or a few days after they started playing!), it is time to ramp up the New Player Experience!
A new system that gradually will replace the current tutorials is under development and first results are already available: behold the new Opportunities system.
Opportunities will offer new players the chance to explore EVE on their own pace in a non-linear fashion and with as little spoon-feeding as possible - new players are encouraged and supported by the Opportunities system to become active on their own early on.
Read more about this new system, when it becomes available and how it will be introduced in CCP Rise' new dev blog Opportunities Abound - The New Player Experience.
CCP Phantom - Senior Community Representative - Volunteer Manager
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Alphax45
Radio New Vegas
53
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:16:33 -
[2] - Quote
OMG: IT'S HAPPENING!
Serious now: This is pretty good. GG CCP :) |
l0rd carlos
TURN DOWN. The Camel Empire
1169
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:17:44 -
[3] - Quote
Looking good!
German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4941
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:24:27 -
[4] - Quote
\o/
Less handholding is good. As long as the information needed is still there :)
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Traiori
New Eden Renegades This can only end well
203
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:27:15 -
[5] - Quote
Why not make opportunities give a small, almost negligible, amount of assignable SP? Maybe an hour or two of training at base rates, with the intent of ensuring that it totals under 48h total?
Whilst SP traditionally comes from time only, the most frequent concern I hear from new players is that they don't have the skills for this or that, and that it takes time away from their training to pick up the basic required skills. Giving a nominal amount of SP as a reward for exploring the game would both provide them with a reimbursement for the new aspects that they're encouraged to try alongside allowing them to feel less of the "week one" training fatigue.
Better still, offering 250k SP (or whatever) is a huge advantage to a new player with only 600k SP but is measurably less useful to current players with 60-100m+ SP. It wouldn't even be a tenth of most skills in my skillqueue at the minute, but would probably be the entirety of most of my friends new player account skillqueues. Some kind of training booster (ala cerb accelerator) would work equally well I suppose, offering 30-60 minutes of advanced training via drugs...but would be more useful to older players who would immediately start trying to buy the booster in vast quantities.
You'd also have to tie rewards to the account I suppose, lest we all start using these rewards to generate gank alts in 250k SP training time less. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4283
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:28:30 -
[6] - Quote
i dislike the mission-based tutorials, which i feel railroad people into running level one missions alone, and i like the sound of opportunities a lot. i'd like opportunities to strongly consider encouraging newbies to team together to do some of the later chores. the landmarks seem like a good spot for newbies to interact with others
maybe opportunities can give rewards via the system that gives us holiday items and plex. i forgot the name - it's the thingo on the character menu. players could claim rewards for completing opportunities anywhere, preventing them being tied down to highsec starter systems, or allowing them to set up where they feel like (except the claim window isn't ingame anymore?) |
BugraT WarheaD
151
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:29:25 -
[7] - Quote
It's really sexy. I would love that kind of tutorial while I started the game 8 years ago :D
Very very good improvement to the game CCP people. |
Phext
SIGBUS
24
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:31:02 -
[8] - Quote
Would have helped me a lot back then. Nice idea. Question: the NPC's are displayed with a red cross above the +. Did I miss something or is this just a new Icon for those opportunities rats?
:wq!
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Darkblad
Hilf Dir selbst in EVE
737
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:31:18 -
[9] - Quote
So from Feb. 20th the Rogue Cloning Facilities make sense \o/
I'm curious as to how new players will get along with this. That said, can anyone recommend a good brainwashing service? This way, I can fully experience the Opportunities system just like a real new player.
EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Handbuch GÇó Colortags/Timer
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1456
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:34:03 -
[10] - Quote
Sounds great! I particularly like the way you're starting them off in a site, in a ship, in space.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
12239
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:34:51 -
[11] - Quote
Phext wrote:Would have helped me a lot back then. Nice idea. Question: the NPC's are displayed with a red cross above the +. Did I miss something or is this just a new Icon for those opportunities rats?
We are working on some future changes to bracket icons, which are visible on the internal test server where the screenshots were taken.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Vic Vorlon
Aideron Robotics
25
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:36:17 -
[12] - Quote
Nice work, these are good ideas! I remember the tutorial feeling very weird in places, like when I had to jump to the system next door, pick up a license and look at hulls floating in space. I'm glad that bit is gone. |
Sugar Kyle
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
965
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:43:40 -
[13] - Quote
Rookie chat is going to be a bit confusing for a bit!
Member of CSM9 - CSM9 Weekly Updates
Running for CSMX - ReElect Sugar Kyle
Low Sec Lifestyle - An Eve Blog
@Sugar_Kyle
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Paukinra
Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn
28
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:54:19 -
[14] - Quote
I really like that these arn't restricted to certain systems, I remember when I joined my first corp (before finishing the tutorials) having to fly ~35 jumps to go finish the tutorials.
Minor SP gains could be interesting, although too much could make gank alts too fast to train... The idea of rewards via the redeeming thingy has potential, and sticks to the idea of doing the tasks where you like.
Any ETA on a dev blog for the new icons? |
Red Teufel
Mafia Redux Feign Disorder
425
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:55:19 -
[15] - Quote
Wow I'm impressed. Seriously CCP, I'm impressed. |
Jaffa Hashur
Illustrious Continuum
0
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:56:27 -
[16] - Quote
Here is your feedback hamburger:
Awesome, goes way better with the rest of the game than mission way of doing things.
When a new player leaves tutorials in the current system the have been rewarded modest amount of resources as ships/skills and modules. In the new system they will have to start making isk from hour 1 to afford to buy skills. I'm a bit worried about new players development being hampered by this. Though you could create an opportunity like 'talk someone into donating money to you' to get around this and push to socialize.
I'm really looking forward to seeing this and everything that this opens up on SISI/TQ.
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Two step
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
4859
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:58:13 -
[17] - Quote
No rewards seems like an odd decision. At the very least, completing an opportunity should point you towards a way to make ISK at the end using the skills you have learned.
Why not have them give a module that will help the player do more of what they just learned to do? Finish the mining one, get an extra mining laser, market one and get a market skillbook, etc?
CSM 7 Secretary
CSM 6 Alternate Delegate
@two_step_eve on Twitter
My Blog
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Blue Harrier
182
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Posted - 2015.02.19 15:58:59 -
[18] - Quote
Typical Devs I just spent a busy week starting Monday by activating an old account ready for, Tuesday and Tiamat deployment, Wednesday my 69th birthday and busy all day, so today I start training up my new character to try out the new (now old) NPE and then you go and announce your going to change everything.
However I have to say it looks good, pity the only way I can try it out on SiSi is to delete one of my characters. Not to worry IGÇÖll start it off later and it should be complete by the time the update is deployed. Looking forward to comparing the old with the new.
"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1328
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:00:04 -
[19] - Quote
Traiori wrote:Why not make opportunities give a small, almost negligible, amount of assignable SP? Maybe an hour or two of training at base rates, with the intent of ensuring that it totals under 48h total?
Whilst SP traditionally comes from time only, the most frequent concern I hear from new players is that they don't have the skills for this or that, and that it takes time away from their training to pick up the basic required skills. Giving a nominal amount of SP as a reward for exploring the game would both provide them with a reimbursement for the new aspects that they're encouraged to try alongside allowing them to feel less of the "week one" training fatigue.
Better still, offering 250k SP (or whatever) is a huge advantage to a new player with only 600k SP but is measurably less useful to current players with 60-100m+ SP. It wouldn't even be a tenth of most skills in my skillqueue at the minute, but would probably be the entirety of most of my friends new player account skillqueues. Some kind of training booster (ala cerb accelerator) would work equally well I suppose, offering 30-60 minutes of advanced training via drugs...but would be more useful to older players who would immediately start trying to buy the booster in vast quantities.
You'd also have to tie rewards to the account I suppose, lest we all start using these rewards to generate gank alts in 250k SP training time less. This idea has potential, I think. Perhaps it shouldn't come in the form of SP, but maybe something like skill vouchers, that can be consumed to instantly gain a rank in a skill? Like, you, as an Amarr Pilot, complete the "shoot a ship and loot it" opportunity, and among the rewards is a voucher for Small Energy Weapons 3?
With careful restrictions and restriction on scope, you could put in an additional carrot in this form.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
6
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:00:51 -
[20] - Quote
@ CCP Rise and Team Team Pirate Unicorns,
I have read many notable players who say that doing PvE content should closer reflect a ship fitting that is functional in a PvP environment. To help bridge the gap a bit. I think that is a good idea. Is there any effort to do this? It just would feel better to stay and fight because you have a fit that gives you a chance against another player(s) instead of the current option - dock up; staying to fight is suicide. The most optimal way to do the PvE content should be with a PvP fit. Granted these are just my opinions, but I believe more action between players would be nice. |
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Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
638
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:02:56 -
[21] - Quote
Why is it that every time the NPE comes up, we get a new set of tutorials and that's it? The tutorials are mediocre but not that terrible aside from a few specific issues.
The focus always falls on the first couple of days of playing Eve, but this isn't where the major problems arise. The current tutorial missions can be a bit confusing but they aren't the real NPE, nor the problem with it. The first day(s) of the game while you're working through the tutorial missions and newbie epic arc and have something to do aren't all that bad and present an accurate(if perhaps too honest) picture of Eve Online.
It's when those tutorials end that the problems arise. Week two through ten are where things are really rough. The game provides no guidance on what to do and the options available to players in this gap are laughable. They're complete wastes of time that earn so little that a new player is better off begging for isk. They learn the basics and decide what they want to train for but quickly realize that but nothing they can do right away is worth doing. During this period too many people end up just training skills rather than playing the game, waiting for the time when they'll be able to fly something worthwhile only to quit instead.
The problem with the NPE isn't the first few days, it's the first 60 days. Redoing those first few days again isn't going to help if that first 60 days isn't improved. |
Sugar Kyle
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
966
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:07:15 -
[22] - Quote
Innominate wrote:Why is it that every time the NPE comes up, we get a new set of tutorials and that's it? The tutorials are mediocre but not that terrible aside from a few specific issues.
The focus always falls on the first couple of days of playing Eve, but this isn't where the major problems arise. The current tutorial missions can be a bit confusing but they aren't the real NPE, nor the problem with it. The first day(s) of the game while you're working through the tutorial missions and newbie epic arc and have something to do aren't all that bad and present an accurate(if perhaps too honest) picture of Eve Online.
It's when those tutorials end that the problems arise. Week two through ten are where things are really rough. The game provides no guidance on what to do and the options available to players in this gap are laughable. They're complete wastes of time that earn so little that a new player is better off begging for isk. They learn the basics and decide what they want to train for but quickly realize that but nothing they can do right away is worth doing. During this period too many people end up just training skills rather than playing the game, waiting for the time when they'll be able to fly something worthwhile only to quit instead.
The problem with the NPE isn't the first few days, it's the first 60 days. Redoing those first few days again isn't going to help if that first 60 days isn't improved.
The second part keeping them after they atr caught also had a team dedicated to them and work is being done in that area. This is one part of a large multidimensional project. Your other points have not been lost by CCP or members of the CSM nor is this a finished project.
Member of CSM9 - CSM9 Weekly Updates
Running for CSMX - ReElect Sugar Kyle
Low Sec Lifestyle - An Eve Blog
@Sugar_Kyle
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Maennas Vaer
High Flyers The Kadeshi
22
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:09:28 -
[23] - Quote
Innominate wrote:Why is it that every time the NPE comes up, we get a new set of tutorials and that's it? The tutorials are mediocre but not that terrible aside from a few specific issues.
The focus always falls on the first couple of days of playing Eve, but this isn't where the major problems arise. The current tutorial missions can be a bit confusing but they aren't the real NPE, nor the problem with it. The first day(s) of the game while you're working through the tutorial missions and newbie epic arc and have something to do aren't all that bad and present an accurate(if perhaps too honest) picture of Eve Online.
It's when those tutorials end that the problems arise. Week two through ten are where things are really rough. The game provides no guidance on what to do and the options available to players in this gap are laughable. They're complete wastes of time that earn so little that a new player is better off begging for isk. They learn the basics and decide what they want to train for but quickly realize that but nothing they can do right away is worth doing. During this period too many people end up just training skills rather than playing the game, waiting for the time when they'll be able to fly something worthwhile only to quit instead.
The problem with the NPE isn't the first few days, it's the first 60 days. Redoing those first few days again isn't going to help if that first 60 days isn't improved.
CCP Rise wrote:THE FUTURE OF THE NEW PLAYER EXPERIENCE
We have a long ways to go. We already have a lot of new content planned and would be very happy to see the Opportunity system expand to become a medium-term goal setting tool that can answer the most common noobie question: GÇ£what do I do nowGÇ¥. At the moment though, weGÇÖre just excited to get this into the hands of new players and see what kind of impact it has. |
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CCP Delegate Zero
C C P C C P Alliance
176
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:09:36 -
[24] - Quote
Our minds are still very open on rewards, we just need to see how things work without them and build from there. Some form of reward structure would have to be tailored to the experience the Opportunities framework provides.
On post 'New Experience' (however many days it might be) - this approach is very much looking to the longer term. We just have to get the foundational pieces in first. Thoughts on how mid- to long-term Opportunities could work are very welcome too.
CCP Delegate Zero | Game Designer | @CCPDelegateZero
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Ripard Teg
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1010
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:14:07 -
[25] - Quote
Innominate wrote:The problem with the NPE isn't the first few days, it's the first 60 days. Redoing those first few days again isn't going to help if that first 60 days isn't improved. This. A lot.
There's a huge gamble hidden between the lines in this change. Since Opportunities will not be paying much if any ISK, they're going to leave the player at the end of the trial period without the basic ISK stock pile they need for a couple of starter ships, fittings, and skill books to fly them properly. It seems to me that the concept here is to drive players into a corp right off so that they'll have someone to beg for the ISK that they need just to keep from getting strangled in the crib. And I have no doubt one of the upcoming Opportunities is going to be "Find a corp!"
But there's a very real possibility that the change is just going to accelerate and emphasize the new player's feeling that he's going to be eternally SP- and ISK-poor and they'll say "Screw this, I'm outta here" instead since finding a first corp is hard.
Sugar, I'm glad to hear that this time period is on CCP's radar. Hopefully, the CSM is emphasizing this point. And hopefully, we'll be hearing from CCP about their plans in this area quite soon.
Another question: why is friends/family testing being done here instead of another round of external testing? If anything was ever begging for a test group that's never heard of EVE, this is it.
aka Jester, who apparently was once entrusted to Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
154
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:18:13 -
[26] - Quote
Would it be so much to ask for the Tutorials to advise or explain what the hec is going on in eve online at the current time? I honestly liked mittens idea for the NPE better, atleast it made sense but as usual seems they don't want to do that cause it requires much much work , and welp we cant have that now can we.
new bro's should be restricted in their own space, receiving guidance from ISD,CCP, etc.. call it friends and family-thera something.. put it all off in your wormhole for all I care. then once they mature let them out to the rest of us..
I still think the main thing that keeps pushing new bros away is the fact of the many many levels of griefing that you folks do allow.. but of course you wont nerf that cause that also would hurt someone else's game. perfect thinking here.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3156
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:19:18 -
[27] - Quote
Do you have to start a new character to try out the NPE? I know Ive told my sister (who logs in very occasionally) that if she needs to, she can always re-run the tutorials. Will this new system be the same? You can try it out at any time, in case you want a refresher?
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
4879
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:20:30 -
[28] - Quote
We did friend and family testing on this version, though limited because it wasn't on TQ and also limited because our tests were more about the flow of the content we have than the choices made after the content was complete.
I really want to highlight that one of the huge benefits of this system is to NOT drop people after a tutorial with no idea what to do next. But, we decided to release now, with limited content, since we think we can learn a lot even now by doing so, rather than waiting another release or two when we have content to fill a few weeks.
We are still building towards that as fast as we can so hopefully this will be a non-issue in a couple months.
@ccp_rise
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
4879
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:22:48 -
[29] - Quote
Quote:I still think the main thing that keeps pushing new bros away is the fact of the many many levels of griefing that you folks do allow.. but of course you wont nerf that cause that also would hurt someone else's game. perfect thinking here.
We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed. The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Isolating players away from the actual sandbox seems very contrary to what we would like to accomplish.
@ccp_rise
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Mixu Paatelainen
New Eden Renegades This can only end well
212
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:31:04 -
[30] - Quote
That's more like it. Good stuff. |
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