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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Mynxee
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
76
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:33:57 -
[31] - Quote
What a great direction for the NPE, great work on the concept of Opportunities! Some thoughts:
-- Rewards should still be given, much like one is paid in the military to attend schools associated with one's specialty. Rather than viewing that negatively as a carrot that might cause players to go through material they doesn't interest them just to get the ISK, view it as an opportunity (yeah, I went there :P ) for them change their minds about a given topic (especially as you get into more career-specific things, which I assume will happen eventually) once they experience it. Encouraging people to try different things is never a bad idea in EVE!
-- With less hand-holding, there still needs to be contextual info about why sets of tasks are important to learn and how they fit into the bigger picture of life in New Eden. On both an opportunity and a task level, that may not always be as obvious as you might think. Some contextual info provides strong motivations to engage with learning and be thinking about how it will apply to one's aspirations in-game.
-- Hope to see probe scanning and other exploration related Opportunities in the queue sooner rather than later.
-- Is it the plan to eventually map opportunities into groupings relative to specific careers, once there's enough content to do that with?
-- Offering a few suggestions for the kinds of things that users might explore and find out on their own could be useful. Sometimes people don't realize the extent of freedom of choice that we have in New Eden and that you write your own story in the game by taking the initiative. Never hurts to remind them of that with relevant examples.
-- So glad you kept Aura around. She is the iconic voice of New Eden, long may she live.
-- Is there a plan--once you have a big catalog of Opportunities in place--to reference those in relevant Evelopedia topics?
With a recent focus on helping new bros and 20+ years of work in instructional design and training development, this NPE evolution is very exciting and looks like fun to work on. What are the best ways for players to help you guys with this effort once it hits TQ (or before)?
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Blog: Outlaw Insouciant
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3156
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:34:41 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Have you shown cause and effect here? That is, is the cause of the players leaving the game their lack of social activity? Or is it that the players who have no interest in social activity find this is not the game they were looking for, and move on?
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
569
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:43:36 -
[33] - Quote
A note on the reward thing, maybe don't give out like 100 million isk but give them books instead and hint to the noobies that they always will be keep buying new ones.
What could also be good for noobies to know is that EVE is not a one-time log-in shooter where you log on and kill monsters and log off again. What they may or may not discover is that EVE is a very long time commitment, one the things I already knew a while before I installed the 450mb trial once upon a time ago.
And skills (books). Never not talk about skillbooks and maybe give noobies a one time payment of 25.000 isk for opening the training que and training Engineering to level 2 or injecting a new book, so they assosiate skill training as something that is always a good thing but it will take some time before they reach everything at the magic level V.
Speaking of, it should be noted that not everything does need to be at level V to be 'useful'. In the early days in EVE people train some levels of skillpoints to fit some module they want to try out.
Make them take a trip through highsec, let's say 7 systems long and tell them about the navigation skills along the way.
I remember that 7 jumps used to take like 2 hours because I would need to make several jumps of 4-5AU and then have to wait until my capacitor recharged to make another one
EVE was big back then.
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Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
640
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:43:43 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I really want to highlight that one of the huge benefits of this system is to NOT drop people after a tutorial with no idea what to do next.
What do you expect new players to do when they have finished the tutorial?
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
4879
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:44:13 -
[35] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Rise wrote:The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Have you shown cause and effect here? That is, is the cause of the players leaving the game their lack of social activity? Or is it that the players who have no interest in social activity find this is not the game they were looking for, and move on?
Simple answer is no. The closest come, for now, to establishing cause is to simply ask using exit surveys or other similar feedback channels. Otherwise we are doing the best we can with correlation.
As a funny side note: one of the stronger indicators for whether or not someone sticks with EVE is whether or not they used combat drones during their first 30 days. Maybe using drones is just so awesome that they decide to sub right then and there?! Or maybe it's just correlation related to depth of engagement. You be the judge!
@ccp_rise
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
4879
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:45:15 -
[36] - Quote
Innominate wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I really want to highlight that one of the huge benefits of this system is to NOT drop people after a tutorial with no idea what to do next. What do you expect new players to do when they have finished the tutorial?
For now, we expect most of them will go to the career agents. We make a direct hand off from our new system to the career agents in this release.
Later on we want to have enough content in this system that we can have them investigating game systems for weeks just based on Opportunities.
@ccp_rise
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handige harrie
Hedion University Amarr Empire
284
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:45:44 -
[37] - Quote
hmmm, with some adjustments, I smell an improved and more dynamic mission system.
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Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
641
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:47:28 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Innominate wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I really want to highlight that one of the huge benefits of this system is to NOT drop people after a tutorial with no idea what to do next. What do you expect new players to do when they have finished the tutorial? For now, we expect most of them will go to the career agents. We make a direct hand off from our new system to the career agents in this release.
The career agents as in the ones that form the current advanced tutorials? Ok, so you've got the first few days covered, what's next? Edit: When the tutorials complete, pretend they no longer just dump the player into the game, what options does the new player have as far as things to do? |
Sven Viko VIkolander
The Forbidden Fleet
325
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:51:50 -
[39] - Quote
I have been a huge fan of the new vision for the NPE since it was first announced by Rise et al at fanfest. I am glad to see it finally taking shape. I would really like to see the opportunity system branch into more advanced gameplay which would also help new players make isk--such as, opportunity goals for setting up PI on a planet, for doing research on a blueprint, for participating in an incursion, for joining faction war and running a "plex," for visiting a wormhole, for killing a sleeper in a wormhole, for running a lvl 1 or lvl 2 lvl 3 or lvl 4 mission, for having 10m isk in the wallet, and so on. It would also be nice, as other people suggested, for the system to have "social" goals, such as joining a fleet, starting a conversation with another player, getting a kill mail, and so on. It seems like this would be a good system for launching players into content that will get them through those difficult first 10-60 days while also never, by itself, giving new players rewards.
Also: Some friends have started the game and so I've been spending time lately in new player systems helping them and talking to other new players. I've noticed a lot of new players using / talking about the new anomalies (the mini respawning belts). Do you have any metrics on how widely these are being used? They seem very popular and I am glad to see iteration on the idea of mini-sites coming.
Finally...
Ripard Teg wrote:[quote=Innominate] It seems to me that the concept here is to drive players into a corp right off so that they'll have someone to beg for the ISK that they need just to keep from getting strangled in the crib. And I have no doubt one of the upcoming Opportunities is going to be "Find a corp!"
What's wrong with getting help from others or being directed by the opportunities system to find a corporation? Presumably, corporations can help new players in more ways than just by giving them isk, but even that is not necessarily a bad thing... I mean, you of all players used to ask for isk on your blog lol |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1614
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:54:04 -
[40] - Quote
As someone who have done a lot of guides on youtube and on websites, and who had to redo the tutorial many times to keep the information up-to-date, I'm very curious to see what the opportunities system has to offer.
That being said, I'd immediately suggest that you add some solid reward for players when completing Opportunities. It doesn't have to be ONE REWARD = ONE OPPORTUNITY. If each opportunity gave one point, you could simply give players various rewards when they reach various fixed amount of points. This way, new players can still do whatever they like AND get rewards, without feeling compelled to specifically do something they don't like.
Also, what is the end-goal of that system? To completely remove career agents? Including the aura crash-course?
Signature Tanking - Best Tanking
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Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
391
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:54:46 -
[41] - Quote
This seriously looks incredible and engaging. Plus simple. Way to go folks. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3156
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:55:55 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Rise wrote:The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Have you shown cause and effect here? That is, is the cause of the players leaving the game their lack of social activity? Or is it that the players who have no interest in social activity find this is not the game they were looking for, and move on? Simple answer is no. The closest come, for now, to establishing cause is to simply ask using exit surveys or other similar feedback channels. Otherwise we are doing the best we can with correlation. As a funny side note: one of the stronger indicators for whether or not someone sticks with EVE is whether or not they used combat drones during their first 30 days. Maybe using drones is just so awesome that they decide to sub right then and there?! Or maybe it's just correlation related to depth of engagement. You be the judge! Maybe every player should start with a ship that can carry at least one drone, and be given just enough base skills to use it. Then make "use drones against an enemy" be an opportunity.
Also, you need to think about opportunities that do involve social interaction, ib case that really is the cause.
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Mynxee
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
77
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:56:46 -
[43] - Quote
Innominate wrote:The career agents as in the ones that form the current advanced tutorials? Ok, so you've got the first few days covered, what's next? Edit: When the tutorials complete, pretend they no longer just dump the player into the game, what options does the new player have as far as things to do?
Doesn't Rise's comment quoted below suggest how it will evolve into something that could take up at least a new bro's trial period and well beyond?
CCP Rise wrote:Later on we want to have enough content in this system that we can have them investigating game systems for weeks just based on Opportunities.
A new concept, with content being constantly filled in, will take time to significantly supplement or (even hopefully) supplant what we have now. That's okay...as these things go, it will provide more opportunities for refining methodology, topics, tasks, feedback, etc. Progress is progress and this Opportunities approach is a nice step in a good direction.
Lost in space, looking for sigs...
Blog: Outlaw Insouciant
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Valterra Craven
454
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:57:06 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: But, we decided to release now, with limited content, since we think we can learn a lot even now by doing so, rather than waiting another release or two when we have content to fill a few weeks.
This is what really annoys me about CCP. You guys are not a new gaming company. You'd think you'd have learned by now that releasing content half finished is pretty much always a bad idea (incarna being a prime example). You have a new release cadence for a reason. Please use it. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
155
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:58:14 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Rise wrote:The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Have you shown cause and effect here? That is, is the cause of the players leaving the game their lack of social activity? Or is it that the players who have no interest in social activity find this is not the game they were looking for, and move on? Simple answer is no. The closest come, for now, to establishing cause is to simply ask using exit surveys or other similar feedback channels. Otherwise we are doing the best we can with correlation. As a funny side note: one of the stronger indicators for whether or not someone sticks with EVE is whether or not they used combat drones during their first 30 days. Maybe using drones is just so awesome that they decide to sub right then and there?! Or maybe it's just correlation related to depth of engagement. You be the judge!
this is the picture coming up in my mind.. as you rise work on this.. I also begin to assume you listened to your CSM members who all went in on their ways of recruiting new players.. you said to yourself that Social Activity is important in eve online... yes it is, however what you do not see is how certain ones actually bully/grief those into force-joining corps/alliances..
folks join cause they hear or see about those huge ships and big battles.. that is the concrete foundation of eve popularity.. its not about drones.. well maybe once they see a gallente ship they do but hey... its very small lucky chance I found some swell guys to keep me around.. new bro's are having a hard time finding the cool guys cause of the griefing. you guys allow griefing and plenty ways around it and seems to continue being in denial about it...
is there a fix to bumping coming? nope is there a fix to cloaky camping coming? nope you think these don't have an effect on players? you think a player would rather just move to another system or finally give up playing if these bad habits continue?...i'll wait
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Aliventi
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
824
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:58:37 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:I still think the main thing that keeps pushing new bros away is the fact of the many many levels of griefing that you folks do allow.. but of course you wont nerf that cause that also would hurt someone else's game. perfect thinking here.
We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed. The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Isolating players away from the actual sandbox seems very contrary to what we would like to accomplish. I am really liking this opportunities idea. I think it will be a big improvement over the current NPE.
One of the things that some players and I came up with during a discussion about NPE is that new characters start off with a pitiful amount of SP. 56.489 SP doesn't give you many useful skills. The new player can't use an AB or a MWD, a warp disruptor, they have no capacitor skills, no weapon upgrade skill, no hull upgrades skill, no industry skills, no mining frigate skills, etc. Are you okay with this starting SP? Are you considering revamping the starting skills that a player has so they can complete more of these opportunities without having to wait time and again for 15-30 minutes for a level 1 skill to finish training?
Part of the reason I ask is when I was in Flying Dangerous we loved recruiting and taking day 1 new players and bringing them on our PvP fleets as tackle. Since we were roaming Syndicate at the time we had to have them train 5.5+ hours just to be able to use an MWD (to get out of bubbles they may have landed themselves in or to chase targets) and a t1 warp disruptor so they could point things. I imagine that a similar wait is present in many other potential career fields such as mining, mission running, FW, etc. Are you considering revamping the starting skills so that corporations that actively recruit new players will know they have a basic set of skills (i.e. not have to train 5.5+ hours to be useful to a 0.0 PvP fleet, mining fleet, mission running group, etc) so they can start helping the corp achieve the corps goals from the second they join? |
DaReaper
Net 7
1793
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Posted - 2015.02.19 16:58:47 -
[47] - Quote
Blue Harrier wrote:Typical Devs I just spent a busy week starting Monday by activating an old account ready for, Tuesday and Tiamat deployment, Wednesday my 69th birthday and busy all day, so today I start training up my new character to try out the new (now old) NPE and then you go and announce your going to change everything.
However I have to say it looks good, pity the only way I can try it out on SiSi is to delete one of my characters. Not to worry IGÇÖll start it off later and it should be complete by the time the update is deployed. Looking forward to comparing the old with the new.
Happy late birthday =D
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Titus Tallang
EVE University Ivy League
72
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:00:48 -
[48] - Quote
I am absolutely thrilled by this change. The new system as presented is infinitely better than the currently-existing NPE, which, while offering a somewhat workable introduction to basic concepts, also serves to make new players get used to being told what to do by agents.
Thus leading them to become single-track high-sec mission runners.
Thus leading to them quitting the game once they get bored of it.
I've seen it too often (and may thus be bitter about it).
Great job Team Pirate Unicorns. This is a change that is long overdue, and very welcome - and the potential I can already see in the new system is tremendous.
PS: Don't be afraid to have higher-"tier" opportunities be activities that some people would consider "shady". Stuff like "suicide gank a player" (while explaining the consequences in basic terms) comes to mind. These are supposed to be optional, after all, and I see no reason to exclude valid gameplay from the list.
Teaching Director - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1456
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:07:02 -
[49] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Rise wrote:The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Have you shown cause and effect here? That is, is the cause of the players leaving the game their lack of social activity? Or is it that the players who have no interest in social activity find this is not the game they were looking for, and move on?
Based on the number of times I've seen new players talk in Local about how they don't know what to do next... maybe they could mine, I don't know... I'd guess that boredom and lack of direction are far more lethal to new players than anything else.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
4887
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:09:24 -
[50] - Quote
Quote:I would really like to see the opportunity system branch into more advanced gameplay which would also help new players make isk--such as, opportunity goals for setting up PI on a planet, for doing research on a blueprint, for participating in an incursion, for joining faction war and running a "plex," for visiting a wormhole, for killing a sleeper in a wormhole, for running a lvl 1 or lvl 2 lvl 3 or lvl 4 mission, for having 10m isk in the wallet, and so on. It would also be nice, as other people suggested, for the system to have "social" goals, such as joining a fleet, starting a conversation with another player, getting a kill mail, and so on.
This looks incredibly similar to my list.
@ccp_rise
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1098
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:12:02 -
[51] - Quote
making PI easy too understand, quicker too setup and more info on what too make and how etc.. are much needed even for older guys
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone/fighter assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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Noriko Mai
2063
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:12:10 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:[..]But, we decided to release now, with limited content, since we think we can learn a lot even now by doing so, rather than waiting another release or two when we have content to fill a few weeks.[..] No offense, but this release with limited content thing seems to get a bit out of hand. Notifications are still bugy and the new map is too. Both haven't seen any progress for a while now. And it doesn't look like there is something in the works... As much as I like the new release schedule it seems to encourage you to release alpha/beta features and then do the typical CCP "We finish it later" move. Later is sometime soonGäó. And soonGäó is... yeah, maybe, eventually, sometime... oh look we have new beta feature!
Come On Everybody, support Dark Opaque theme
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Suede
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:14:05 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:I would really like to see the opportunity system branch into more advanced gameplay which would also help new players make isk--such as, opportunity goals for setting up PI on a planet, for doing research on a blueprint, for participating in an incursion, for joining faction war and running a "plex," for visiting a wormhole, for killing a sleeper in a wormhole, for running a lvl 1 or lvl 2 lvl 3 or lvl 4 mission, for having 10m isk in the wallet, and so on. It would also be nice, as other people suggested, for the system to have "social" goals, such as joining a fleet, starting a conversation with another player, getting a kill mail, and so on. This looks incredibly similar to my list.
so are you going to remove the Attributes and Leaning Augmentations |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
156
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:17:15 -
[54] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:I would really like to see the opportunity system branch into more advanced gameplay which would also help new players make isk--such as, opportunity goals for setting up PI on a planet, for doing research on a blueprint, for participating in an incursion, for joining faction war and running a "plex," for visiting a wormhole, for killing a sleeper in a wormhole, for running a lvl 1 or lvl 2 lvl 3 or lvl 4 mission, for having 10m isk in the wallet, and so on. It would also be nice, as other people suggested, for the system to have "social" goals, such as joining a fleet, starting a conversation with another player, getting a kill mail, and so on. This looks incredibly similar to my list. Can go a lot further though as well. Look at wingspantt's: Salvage another playerGÇÖs loot Find and take another playerGÇÖs abandoned drone Pod kill another player Broadcast a chat message in w-space Visit the EVE Gate Visit a shattered planet Defeat a Drifter Battleship Help fend off a Sansha incursion Survive a ghost site hack Mine X m3 of ice in nullsec Mine X m3 of gas in w-space Build a T2 ship or module Plug in a hardwiring implant Consume an illegal booster Sell an item via contract Lot of options for us going forward :)
either I play too much ps3 games. but looking at the list im expecting a trophy for it.. ---- DING! give us trophy list ccp rise give it to us now! |
Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
2494
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:26:25 -
[55] - Quote
The only problem with a list of trophies or achievements is that some will mistake it for the actual purpose of game play. Which it is not.
We do need to make sure that the starting player has access to isk, but if they route from opportunities to the career agents then the isk and ships are still there.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4941
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:27:41 -
[56] - Quote
Suede wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Quote:I would really like to see the opportunity system branch into more advanced gameplay which would also help new players make isk--such as, opportunity goals for setting up PI on a planet, for doing research on a blueprint, for participating in an incursion, for joining faction war and running a "plex," for visiting a wormhole, for killing a sleeper in a wormhole, for running a lvl 1 or lvl 2 lvl 3 or lvl 4 mission, for having 10m isk in the wallet, and so on. It would also be nice, as other people suggested, for the system to have "social" goals, such as joining a fleet, starting a conversation with another player, getting a kill mail, and so on. This looks incredibly similar to my list. so are you going to remove the Attributes and Leaning Augmentations
Funny you should mention that.
It's been discussed
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Odeva Pawen
Aideron Robotics
23
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:28:31 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: As a funny side note: one of the stronger indicators for whether or not someone sticks with EVE is whether or not they used combat drones during their first 30 days. Maybe using drones is just so awesome that they decide to sub right then and there?! Or maybe it's just correlation related to depth of engagement. You be the judge!
Drones OP confirmed. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1098
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:30:48 -
[58] - Quote
Odeva Pawen wrote:CCP Rise wrote: As a funny side note: one of the stronger indicators for whether or not someone sticks with EVE is whether or not they used combat drones during their first 30 days. Maybe using drones is just so awesome that they decide to sub right then and there?! Or maybe it's just correlation related to depth of engagement. You be the judge!
Drones OP confirmed.
drones certainly need a good nerf .. remove drones from non droneboats would also be nice
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone/fighter assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
923
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Posted - 2015.02.19 17:58:07 -
[59] - Quote
I like it. I can see a lot of potential with the system and look forward to seeing it in action.
I do think there needs to be some achievements associated with the more nefarious side of Eve. Things like losing a ship to Concord, gaining a suspect timer, gaining a criminal timer, be in a corp that declares a war, bumping the same ship multiple times in a given time frame, successfully suicide ganking someone, etc. Hell, come up with an opportunity for "doubling" someone's isk (I have no idea how that would work). Besides showing people that they can be evil bastards in Eve, it would also serve as a warning to a new player looking through opportunity tree that these things do exist and are considered valid gameplay.
Just my two cents.
Vote Sabriz!
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
157
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Posted - 2015.02.19 18:03:47 -
[60] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:The only problem with a list of trophies or achievements is that some will mistake it for the actual purpose of game play. Which it is not.
We do need to make sure that the starting player has access to isk, but if they route from opportunities to the career agents then the isk and ships are still there.
m
stop telling me what I want and why I should want to play the game. if I play the game to collect trophies and achievements like on my ps3 and ps4.. guess what.. it keeps me playing!..
im so not voting for some folks this go around.. I promise this |
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