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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Forsaken Asylum
604
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Posted - 2015.02.20 07:38:14 -
[1] - Quote
I recently contacted Goblin with an offer for a contract for his "Grr Goon" campaign. Although I heard the horror stories, I had to read it myself to believe it. Goblin was completely condescending and arrogant expecting that mercs would do his bidding for the fee of the wardec. When I tried explaining that at that rate it would be more profitable to actually defend Goons, he ran to his blog claiming I was threatening him. You can go ahead and find his tirade on his blog. I have nothing to hide.
There are few causes in Eve I put much interest in but seeing the greater merc community as a whole succeed is one of them. Goblin will expect you to do his work for zero profit and talk down to you the entire time. You've been warned.
Hades Effect
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Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
60
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Posted - 2015.02.20 08:14:34 -
[2] - Quote
I think it's strange how you both managed to both this deal up. You already agreed on a trial week for wardec costs in which you were to destroy 2.5b worth of GSF.
Instead of taking this and working it up from there you decided to backpedal. Gevlon decided to consider your reasoning a veiled threat and things went downhill from there.
Funny thing isthat you both are deciding on sound financial reasons. -It is not reasonable for you to work for costs only. -It is not reasonable for Gevlon to pay you if he gets a bigger bang for the buck elsewhere.
You should have taken the trial week. Then both sides would know what to expect and a proper price could have been fixed. I really doubt Goons will avoid highsec because of you. They didn't avoid it with other mercs set to catch them.
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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Forsaken Asylum
604
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Posted - 2015.02.20 08:17:10 -
[3] - Quote
I simply asked him "what if they avoid HS." But nothing stated in the discussion suggested that he ever intended to pay anything more than the cost of the wardec fees.
Hades Effect
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Hitamino
Better with Bovril The Bovril Collective
17
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Posted - 2015.02.20 08:20:51 -
[4] - Quote
Ha, defend the goons, it would be hilarious. He'd be blogging in no time about how evil you are and graphing up your killboards in no time. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Brawlers Inc.
1444
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Posted - 2015.02.20 08:31:29 -
[5] - Quote
wow, its great to hear that seraph. I'd read his blog, but I don't want to give him the hits.
New player resources:
Uni Wiki - General Info
Eve Altruist - PvP
Belligerent Undesirables - High Sec Pvp
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11852
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Posted - 2015.02.20 08:50:09 -
[6] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:wow, its great to hear that seraph. I'd read his blog, but I don't want to give him the hits.
I'd read his blog, but I don't watch to catch what he has.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
1985
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Posted - 2015.02.20 08:52:47 -
[7] - Quote
Grr... someone
TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
611
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Posted - 2015.02.20 09:16:22 -
[8] - Quote
:munch:
Confirming that MOA and -EH- are the most impressive forces Gevlon has ever seen.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
353
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Posted - 2015.02.20 11:18:31 -
[9] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:wow, its great to hear that seraph. I'd read his blog, but I don't want to give him the hits. I'd read his blog, but I don't watch to catch what he has. I just don't wanna read his blog. :puke: |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Forsaken Asylum
609
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Posted - 2015.02.20 13:15:06 -
[10] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote::munch:
Confirming that MOA and -EH- are the most impressive forces Gevlon has ever seen.
Baffles me why he thinks giving money to them somehow affects anything. It's like paying rain to be wet...MoA would be shooting CFC regardless of what money Goblin paid.
Hades Effect
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Renegade Heart
Novus Ordo Universum
398
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Posted - 2015.02.20 13:59:58 -
[11] - Quote
A billion a week to dec Goons? Normally I disagree with Gevlon but I read the blog and think his judgement is correct in this instance. Personally, I don't think any high sec merc corp is worth paying a single isk over the cost of the war dec fee to "fight" Goons in high sec.
If you were really that good you'd be able to profit from the loot drops of your targets. As for calling him arrogant well perhaps a little, but you are guilty of the same thing, expecting him to pay over the odds to give you a bunch of easy targets to shoot at!
I think you would have "profited" more if you weren't so greedy. I am really struggling to understand how any high sec merc group would think that a "free" war versus Goons is something to complain about! |
Big Lynx
The Moustachery
973
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Posted - 2015.02.20 14:11:55 -
[12] - Quote
I am so glad CCP protects society from gevlin with this game.
edit: thanks to blizzard too |
Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
188
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Posted - 2015.02.20 14:16:16 -
[13] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin... He has wiggled his way into my conscience awareness...
I love him! hahaha... |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
193
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Posted - 2015.02.20 14:22:08 -
[14] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:"what if they avoid HS.".
LOL
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
550
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Posted - 2015.02.20 14:51:51 -
[15] - Quote
Renegade Heart wrote:A billion a week to dec Goons? Often I disagree with Gevlon but I read the blog and think his judgement is correct in this instance. Personally, I don't think any high sec merc corp is worth paying a single isk over the cost of the war dec fee to "fight" Goons in high sec. If you were really that good you'd be able to profit from the loot drops of your targets. As for calling him arrogant well perhaps a little, but you are guilty of the same thing, expecting him to pay over the odds to give you a bunch of easy targets to shoot at! I think you would have "profited" more if you weren't so greedy. I am really struggling to understand how any high sec merc group would think that a "free" war versus Goons is something to complain about!
There are several issues with this post.
First, high-sec contracts against most null sec groups are largely a waste. The vast majority of kills are against downies in stupid, random, crap getting killed in pipes or hubs. These losses rarely have any meaningful impact on the parent entity and are nothing but stat-padding used to claim some form of victory. The only losses that may impact null-sec entities are those inflicted by groups such as Freight Club who regularly destroy very expensive jump freighters. Most null alliances worth their salt use alts for alliance level assets, but killing these JFs can still negatively impact the local economies in the parent entity's home region(s).
If you actually wish to put pressure on a sov group, contact Freight Club or The Phoenix Rising. They are in Marmite and Forsaken Asylum, respectively. Frankly, they could operate completely independently (or form their own alliance) and probably do rather well, but I'm under the impression they both like having tons of free decs against null-entities. Without those, I'd put money on them giving their alliances the finger and moving on.
Second, the only loot from groups like goons that you'll actually make any ISK on is the jump freighters. This is still a complete crapshoot if you're looking for any regular and meaningful amount of ISK. The thousands of little ships that mermaids, forsaken, or deadly fingertips have killed in hubs/pipes belonging to these entities are generally T2 fit, at best. A merc group will make very little off these kills. So little, that it's really not worth the effort of the war if it's a contract. The people paying you for the contracts are clearly incapable of having any impact whatsoever on the target group, or they'd just pay the war fee themselves and have at it. It's just bad business for a merc to do anything for cost of dec.
Finally, wars with large null sec entities aren't that fun. You have to park your ass in a hub or a pipe to get kills and it's boring as all hell. These groups rarely bring fights to high-sec, because the kills in pipes/hubs largely don't matter. They have no reason to defend their downies, other than the occasional giggle to be had from stomping a terribad gate camp.
If you want someone to deal with the crap of shooting null sec folks in hs, especially if you want them to do the rather large amount of work involved in killing JFs, you should expect to pay them well for it. |
Renegade Heart
Novus Ordo Universum
399
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Posted - 2015.02.20 17:20:39 -
[16] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:....
Nothing you have stated in your post has convinced me that any merc corp is worth more than the 500 mil a week to dec Goons. All I see is more lust for isk. The lust for explosions is lacking!
If you are in the merc game to make good isk, then you are losing to carebears! Maybe you could run incursions instead? |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
555
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Posted - 2015.02.20 17:49:58 -
[17] - Quote
Renegade Heart wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:.... Nothing you have stated in your post has convinced me that any merc corp is worth more than the 500 mil a week to dec Goons. All I see is more lust for isk. The lust for explosions is lacking! If you are in the merc game to make good isk, then you are losing to carebears! Maybe you could run incursions instead?
My point was that goons (and really any null entity) aren't worth hiring high-sec mercs against to begin with. There is only one avenue that has any chance of real impact on them, and only a few people even bother with all of the effort involved.
Also, "if you're good at something, don't do it for free." Mercs aren't in it for charity, and there are other costs involved beyond the dec fee (ie SRP). If you're not willing to pay more than the dec fee to have something done, then you clearly don't need it done in the first place. |
Renegade Heart
Novus Ordo Universum
399
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Posted - 2015.02.20 18:09:20 -
[18] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:My point was that goons (and really any null entity) aren't worth hiring high-sec mercs against to begin with. There is only one avenue that has any chance of real impact on them, and only a few people even bother with all of the effort involved.
Also, "if you're good at something, don't do it for free." Mercs aren't in it for charity, and there are other costs involved beyond the dec fee (ie SRP). If you're not willing to pay more than the dec fee to have something done, then you clearly don't need it done in the first place.
I can agree that a war dec from a HS merc group on Goons is going to have minimal impact. Whilst many merc contracts clearly are worthy of higher amounts of isk for the mercs (ie, POS bashes) I don't think you can put "shooting random HS goons" into that same category.
As for SRP, well, from history we can see that Goons do not really bother with killing much in the way of mercs at war with them. No doubt, this is due to the fact that if Goons were to show up in an epic NS sized ishtar fleet the mercs would just stay docked! It's not even worth it for Goons to do that.
I could also add that I'm not sure about how all mercs operate as regards SRP but I know for a fact that a large number of merc groups will just kick out members who lose too much SRP only seemed to be a thing on certain fleets. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
557
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Posted - 2015.02.20 19:06:19 -
[19] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:Renegade Heart wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:.... Nothing you have stated in your post has convinced me that any merc corp is worth more than the 500 mil a week to dec Goons. All I see is more lust for isk. The lust for explosions is lacking! If you are in the merc game to make good isk, then you are losing to carebears! Maybe you could run incursions instead? My point was that goons (and really any null entity) aren't worth hiring high-sec mercs against to begin with. There is only one avenue that has any chance of real impact on them, and only a few people even bother with all of the effort involved. Also, "if you're good at something, don't do it for free." Mercs aren't in it for charity, and there are other costs involved beyond the dec fee (ie SRP). If you're not willing to pay more than the dec fee to have something done, then you clearly don't need it done in the first place.
If you really wanted to put the hurt on a null entity you could try identifying their NPC corp logistics alts and suicide ganking them in hisec. Of course, this takes things to a whole new level of effort and expense and you're probably going to have to offer a hefty premium on top of that to convince people who live and operate in hisec to rack up piles of killrights on themselves, assuming anyone would take the job in the first place. |
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY F0RCED ENTRY.
160
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Posted - 2015.02.20 20:39:46 -
[20] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Grr... someone
Grr Marmite. If only none of the other merc corps didnt exist, the OP couldnt had a monopoly and Gevlon Goblin would have no choice but to hire them! |
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Sahriah BloodStone
Hunter Killers. Forsaken Asylum
63
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Posted - 2015.02.20 21:11:44 -
[21] - Quote
I find it amusing that Gevlon doesn't think its worth paying more then the cost of the dec to the mercs one minute, but brags about how much damage they are doing to goons the next. Surely if he believed they were worth it, he would believe they are worth paying.
IMO JF hunting and suicide ganking their alt JF's is really the only way to effectively hurt a null sec entity the size of goons. Not only that, but often you are just hurting individual members. To hurt the core you need to start figuring out and hunting the people moving POS fuel in and out for alliance POS's and the people supplying their null markets.
All of this is doable, but it takes time, and that time would be costly. From what i have seen JF hunting wise, the other CFC entities are much easier to catch then people in goons themselves.
Regardless, i am kind of relieved. I didn't want into that drama anyway. |
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
880
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Posted - 2015.02.20 21:27:27 -
[22] - Quote
Goons tried to fight us one time.
Battle Report
U-Mad doesn't play around
"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."
U-MAD Membership Recruitment
PoH Corporation Recruitment
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Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
409
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Posted - 2015.02.20 22:01:45 -
[23] - Quote
Step by step guide on how to fight the EVIL GOONIES and do TRILLIONS in damage to them (apparently):
1) Join CONDI 2) Get kicked for being ******* worthless 3) Proceed to stage a holy war against afk ratters
See: MoA, R-DU
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2415
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Posted - 2015.02.20 22:11:30 -
[24] - Quote
IB4 Gevlon produces a graph showing the correlation between OP's post count and last year's imminent downfall of the CFC.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
513
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Posted - 2015.02.20 22:15:31 -
[25] - Quote
Mercs are basically useless in the game...might as well disband them all and find something useful to do. |
Renegade Heart
Novus Ordo Universum
406
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Posted - 2015.02.20 22:31:45 -
[26] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Mercs are basically useless in the game...might as well disband them all and find something useful to do.
That's going a bit far. How do you reach such a conclusion? I know of many mercs that have great fun playing the game! Why should they stop doing what they enjoy? |
Zepher Helen Hawat
ULTRAMAR SECURITIES
41
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Posted - 2015.02.20 22:37:38 -
[27] - Quote
Renegade Heart wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Mercs are basically useless in the game...might as well disband them all and find something useful to do. That's going a bit far. How do you reach such a conclusion? I know of many mercs that have great fun playing the game! Why should they stop doing what they enjoy?
Because it's not "Veers approved".
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Starrakatt
Hunter Killers. Forsaken Asylum
224
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Posted - 2015.02.21 01:14:02 -
[28] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:Renegade Heart wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:.... Nothing you have stated in your post has convinced me that any merc corp is worth more than the 500 mil a week to dec Goons. All I see is more lust for isk. The lust for explosions is lacking! If you are in the merc game to make good isk, then you are losing to carebears! Maybe you could run incursions instead? My point was that goons (and really any null entity) aren't worth hiring high-sec mercs against to begin with. There is only one avenue that has any chance of real impact on them, and only a few people even bother with all of the effort involved. Also, "if you're good at something, don't do it for free." Mercs aren't in it for charity, and there are other costs involved beyond the dec fee (ie SRP). If you're not willing to pay more than the dec fee to have something done, then you clearly don't need it done in the first place. If you really wanted to put the hurt on a null entity you could try identifying their NPC corp logistics alts and suicide ganking them in hisec. Of course, this takes things to a whole new level of effort and expense and you're probably going to have to offer a hefty premium on top of that to convince people who live and operate in hisec to rack up piles of killrights on themselves, assuming anyone would take the job in the first place. Such an organization would have to be CODElike, as it is not really possible to identify NPC alts on a large scale.
Focused mass ganking of NPC corp/1 man corp freighters and jump freighters could REALLY hurt in the long term.
Forsaken Asylum's ways
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
97
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Posted - 2015.02.21 05:29:35 -
[29] - Quote
It's long seemed to me that the only way to hurt an organization like GSF or CODE that doesn't have exposed assets in highsec would be to identify and target any of their ISK sources that can reasonably be gotten to. NPC alt haulers, incursion runners, FW farmers etc.
Would take some very dedicated metagaming to do it though, and honestly who has the time? |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Forsaken Asylum
609
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Posted - 2015.02.21 08:26:06 -
[30] - Quote
A mercenary alliance will be able to field 5 to 30 or so members depending on its size. Can such a fleet "destroy" the GSF? No. But that doesn't render its effect as meaningless. The role mercenaries play are akin to small asymmetric entities within our own world. We're here to hamper movement, destabilize activities and affect morale. Is this going to topple any nullsec alliance? No...but that doesn't mean it's an ineffective tool. Guerrilla warfare doesn't win the war, save for internal conflict, only a conventional force marching on the GSF will "destroy" the entity. But it's still damaging on a variety of levels.
As for Goblin, he has been arrogant toward myself and others in the mercenary community, and this offends my sensibilities. He tells some of us that he's "cooking something up." These sort of words beg for a reply, and that can be arranged.
Hades Effect
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