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Pod Panik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
34
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Posted - 2015.02.23 16:48:04 -
[1] - Quote
Hello all,
I am now doing L3 missions and I quickly found out that using my Vexor was a little tough. Therefore, I upgraded to a Myrmidon when I realized how similar the base skill set was. So here I am, flying this awkward vertical ship and being very happy with it.
The Myrmidon is pretty much a dedicated Armor Tank ship given his significant bonus to Armor Repair. I do have the skills to use the medium Armor Repairer t2, but so far I had a tendency to prefer Shield Tanking, and more precisely passive tanking. I feel kinda stress when my suffered damages burst through my shields...
Before the Myrmidon, I packed my Vexor with 3 Large Shield Extenders (T1) which gave him a pretty amazing 7000+ points of shield with a 30pts regen per sec. To go through L2 missions it was way more then enough.
Now I did the same with my Myrmidon (actually 4 Large Shield Extenders t2) for an impressive 16000+ points of shield and a 70/s regeneration rate. Again, its way more then what I need so far for L3 missions.
This said, I feel that I am passing something good not using Armor Tanking when considering that I do not use the Myrmidon bonus to repair armor at all. And in the spirit of understanding the game and trying many aspects of it, I may try it just for fun...
So for armor tanking, all I require are one or two Armor repairer, some armor harner and possibly some armor extenders. I should also probably add a couple Caps recharger to help maintain my Repairers active. Am I missing anything?
And as for my shield, they essentially become a temporary buffer before damage gets to my Armor? There is nothing else to be done with it?
Thanks for the Wisdom Sharing... |
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3325
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Posted - 2015.02.23 16:54:37 -
[2] - Quote
According to the EVE Uni Wiki, you can actually use a Myrmidon effectively with a passive shield tank for missions.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Myrmidon
Click on Notes, for extra details on stats and how to use the fit.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
382
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Posted - 2015.02.23 17:01:04 -
[3] - Quote
Eve Uni wiki has some passive shield tank fits for the myrm.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Myrmidon
As far as armor tanking there is buffer tanking and active tanking and you in most cases don't mix the two. For missions you will mostly active tank and for PvP mostly buffer tank.
Active armor tanking involves simply using the proper resists for the mission that you are on and then using an armor repper to repair damage. For rigs you would use an auxiliary nano pump and some CCCs most likely and as you have noticed maybe some cap rechargers.
Since you are coming here for these answers I'm guessing that you are still trying to solo eve. |
Pod Panik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
34
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Posted - 2015.02.23 17:50:55 -
[4] - Quote
Regarding the solo issue, I am waiting for a spot with Eve Uni.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1192
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Posted - 2015.02.23 18:01:12 -
[5] - Quote
A Shield myrm can work just fine but once you start using sentries (which you should) you want those mids for omnidirectionals. Also, having an MJD in there is just handy in case of trouble.
Here's a basic armour tanked sentry focussed fit for a lvl 3 myrm. It's T2 not because it's needed but to keep the names kinda obvious, it'll work fine with T1/meta gear. If you feel the tank might get a bit wimpy with low SP replace the 3rd DDA with another hardener.
[Myrmidon, LVL 3 Serpentis] Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II Medium Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Cap Recharger II
Civilian Gatling Railgun, Civilian Railgun Charge Medium Nosferatu II Medium Remote Armor Repairer II Small Tractor Beam II Drone Link Augmentor II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Garde II x4 Warden II x3 Hobgoblin II x5
I'm old Gregor.
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Robyn Hoodlum
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2015.02.23 18:07:57 -
[6] - Quote
its really cool to see how your questions have progressed. From what I can gather we started around the same time, and the first few posts I saw from you was very random and broad, but with each new post I can see how much better you are getting at the game with the type of questions you ask (and responses you get). Keep doing what you are doing |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
384
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Posted - 2015.02.23 18:21:05 -
[7] - Quote
Pod Panik wrote:Regarding the solo issue, I am waiting for a spot with Eve Uni.
You play the game however you like and don't let me or anyone else tell you otherwise. I'm not sure how long it takes to get into Eve Uni but if it is a longer term thing I'm sure most player corps would be fine taking someone on knowing that down the road they'd leave for a bit to do Eve Uni training. I have a hard time believing many recruiters would hold that against you in this game especially ones looking for newer players.
Outside that again there are twitch streamers that have public channels and other various public chat channels available. However if this forum format is working for you stick with it. Just understand it's not as efficient as a dialog for information exchange. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1429
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Posted - 2015.02.23 18:44:01 -
[8] - Quote
if your armour tanking, yes your shield is just extra buffer
if you have a local repair module (armour or shield) it's basically an active tank and both follow the same format
repair module + 2-3 hardeners (use the mission info on http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports to know which hardeners to fit)
+hp modules (shield, armour or hull) are more suited to pvp fits, you can use them for pve, but generally there are better options available
most passive shield tanks are hybrid builds .. +hp, active hardeners, +regen modules I guess they get called passive because they don't have an active local rep module
you can use rig slots to boost weak points in your tank, or to boost strong points .. either works well |
Pod Panik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
35
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Posted - 2015.02.23 19:16:19 -
[9] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:A [Myrmidon, LVL 3 Serpentis] Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II Medium Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Cap Recharger II
Civilian Gatling Railgun, Civilian Railgun Charge Medium Nosferatu II Medium Remote Armor Repairer II Small Tractor Beam II Drone Link Augmentor II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Garde II x4 Warden II x3 Hobgoblin II x5
Why the Nosferatu? Is it to help feed your Caps to maintain the Repairers?
I don't have the skills to use such a device yet, but that could be an interesting strategy to try... |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1028
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Posted - 2015.02.23 19:20:26 -
[10] - Quote
yeah if something get's close you can drain a little bit of cap from it. You shouldn't be relying on it though. |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4628
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Posted - 2015.02.23 19:46:17 -
[11] - Quote
One common mistake with both armor and shield is an attempt to run the repair module continuously.
Though it takes less effort to manage such a setup, it can really eat a lot of capacitor, leading to the second common mistake of fitting a lot of capacitor modules to compensate.
For level 3's in my hurricane, I have 4 tanking modules: * Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II * Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II * Reactive Armor Hardener * Medium Armor Repairer II
I don't run the repper continuously, and I make sure to keep moving (10MN Afterburner II). With sentries out, orbit your sentries!
I also don't run the Reactive Armor Hardener until shield is gone. |
Pod Panik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
35
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Posted - 2015.02.23 19:48:25 -
[12] - Quote
I see you have two Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II...
Is there a stacking penalty? If yes, what is the maginitude of stacking penalties? |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4628
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Posted - 2015.02.23 19:51:21 -
[13] - Quote
Pod Panik wrote:I see you have two Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II...
Is there a stacking penalty? If yes, what is the maginitude of stacking penalties? Stacking penalty on two modules is fine.
It is only an issue past 3, and in some cases 4 is acceptable.
Beware that rigs are also considered as well as modules for stacking.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4123325#post4123325
Stacking Factor 1: 1.000000000000 Stacking Factor 2: 0.869119980800 Stacking Factor 3: 0.570583143511 Stacking Factor 4: 0.282955154023 Stacking Factor 5: 0.105992649743 |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1192
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Posted - 2015.02.23 20:09:09 -
[14] - Quote
Pod Panik wrote:Why the Nosferatu? Is it to help feed your Caps to maintain the Repairers?
I don't have the skills to use such a device yet, but that could be an interesting strategy to try...
In case you get in short range trouble and need to tank for a prolonged time, not much else to fit there anyway.
I'm old Gregor.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
385
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Posted - 2015.02.23 22:50:03 -
[15] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:
most passive shield tanks are hybrid builds .. +hp, active hardeners, +regen modules I guess they get called passive because they don't have an active local rep module
To state this more clearly for the OP. Active tanking is using capacitor to actively repair incurred damage. Passive tanking is not using cap and allowing you tank to "naturally" regen.
Shields regen much in the same way that cap does. Armor does not "naturally" regen and needs to be actively repaired. Sheilds regen at a rate equivalent to the amount of shield HP multiplied by the percentage of regen at a specific interval. If you increase either the number of HP or the percentage of regen your regen amount goes up. I don't think we have any control over the interval.
Likewise there are active and passive resist modules. The active ones (capacitor consuming) are called hardeners. I'm not in game currently to tell you the names of the passive ones but they exist for both shield and armor.
Since armor does not "naturally" regen there is no passive armor tank but there is a buffer tank. Essentially you use modules to increase armor HP and resists so that your EHP goes up. I do know of people that have done this on mission boats and used the station repair services to repair themselves. I've not tried it myself but I know it is possible. |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
957
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Posted - 2015.02.23 23:27:31 -
[16] - Quote
If you can passively shield-tank, then by all means go for it.
Myself, I went armor-tank all the way up to the Dominix until I tried to shield-tank that spacepotato and I never looked back; it-¦s simply too tempting to use all those low slots for damage mods (which is kind of tank too, actually, DPS it is the best tank; dead rats don-¦t shoot anymore). Also, you likely can use rig slots for damage as well, don-¦t neglect these in favor of a stable Cap. As Tau said, that is unnecessary and a waste.
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1029
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Posted - 2015.02.24 01:32:55 -
[17] - Quote
I'm personally not a fan of shield tanking drone sniping ships, though they made it a lot easier with the new drone tracking enhancers.
I guess domi and ishtar work out since they get the hull optimal bonus but for anything else I would stick to armour with omnidirectional tracking links. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
169
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 03:14:21 -
[18] - Quote
Some thoughts.
While you can passive or active shield tank a Myrm why when there is a bonus to armor reps and for missions it really does not make any difference which tanking method you use.
Here are some thoughts on the fit posted earlier. Nothing wrong with it just have other options for you to explore.
Drones damage amps. While 3 drones damage amps are wonderful at first I would suggest dropping one of them for another mission specific hardener or a damage control unit. After you get used to flying an active tanked armor ship then you can experiment with the 3rd drones damage amp.
Medium Micro Jump Drive Marginal usefulness on a level 3 mission ship since things are not usually spread out enough to matter much. Other options are a tracking computer to help the guns, or a cap recharger to help with your cap recharge rate, or a cap battery. On the other side the MJD can be useful to move between gates and to get out of dodge as they say if a real problem comes up.
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II While these look good on paper I have never found them to be all that useful. Sentries will easily hit the battle crusier and some cruiser class ships, mediums will do well on the cruiser class and many of the destroyer class ships and the lights will have no trouble with the destroyers and frigates. Consider replacing these with cap mods at first and then change up later if you are not experiencing cap related problems.
Civilian Gatling Railgun, Civilian Railgun Charge Since there are no ship bonuses to weapons other than drones consider replacing these with auto cannons in the 150mm to 200mmm range. The DPS drop you may have will not be significant and they do not use any capacitor so that will help with that as well.
Small Tractor Beam II This would require dropping a weapon out of a high slot to allow for this. The drop in total DPS is not significant but it is worth considering. Another option would be a salvage beam instead of the tractor.
Drones load out. This is a very personal choice and what is listed is OK although I would suggest a couple of small change. Drop 1 Garde and add another Warden. The other change, if you cannot use all 4 of the sentry drones then I would suggest using the bouncers instead of the Wardens. Again all of these are personal choices.
My drones load for a lvl 3 mission Myrm is 4 Bouncers. 5 mission specific mediums - if you cannot use all of the different types then hammerheads are the best overall. 5 missions specific lights - again if you cannot use them all then hobgoblins are the best overall. 2 medium armor maint bots and 1 light armor maint bot. The maint bots are useful to repair damaged drones between mission pockets when / if needed.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
386
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Posted - 2015.02.24 03:27:13 -
[19] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:
While you can passive or active shield tank a Myrm why when there is a bonus to armor reps and for missions it really does not make any difference which tanking method you use.
The game is down atm so I can't double check the numbers but iirc the gallente T1 ships have a 0% base explosive resist for armor tanking that is 50% if shield tanking and the opposite is true for EM with 0% EM resist to shields and 50% EM resist to armor. So if you are shooting at Angels you'll want to shield tank and if you are shooting at Bloodraiders or Sansha you'll want to armor tank.
Donnachadh wrote:
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II While these look good on paper I have never found them to be all that useful. Sentries will easily hit the battle crusier and some cruiser class ships, mediums will do well on the cruiser class and many of the destroyer class ships and the lights will have no trouble with the destroyers and frigates. Consider replacing these with cap mods at first and then change up later if you are not experiencing cap related problems.
I use 2 Omnidirectional Tracking Links on my Domi. My sentries can one shot most frigs at snipping range and still kill them pretty quick even at close to 20 km. I find them to be very useful. Of course everyone has their own style so I suggest the OP try it both was and see which he likes better. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5865
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 10:44:14 -
[20] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:A Shield myrm can work just fine but once you start using sentries (which you should) you want those mids for omnidirectionals. Also, having an MJD in there is just handy in case of trouble.
Here's a basic armour tanked sentry focussed fit for a lvl 3 myrm. It's T2 not because it's needed but to keep the names kinda obvious, it'll work fine with T1/meta gear. If you feel the tank might get a bit wimpy with low SP replace the 3rd DDA with another hardener.
[Myrmidon, LVL 3 Serpentis] Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II Medium Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Cap Recharger II
Civilian Gatling Railgun, Civilian Railgun Charge Medium Nosferatu II Medium Remote Armor Repairer II Small Tractor Beam II Drone Link Augmentor II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Garde II x4 Warden II x3 Hobgoblin II x5
Added note:
Change the 2 hardeners for the mission specific damage types, as usual. Rest is a great fit.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
476
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Posted - 2015.02.24 22:16:30 -
[21] - Quote
The myrm as it is has always been easily shield tanked and with the drone damage modules we now have. it lends it self to shield tanking better then ever before.
Myrm has an active armor bonus but often runs to problems with cap so, especially in pvp, it's not unheard of to have a myrm fitted with autocannons while being shield tanked for maximum gank.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4720
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Posted - 2015.02.24 22:27:43 -
[22] - Quote
If you are set on active armor tanking (even if you don't want to do it long term but just want to learn it), the best setup in missions is the following:
1st tank module: Medium Armor Repairer II. If your ship is expensive, also look at C-type deadspace modules here as they are affordable now. If you get in trouble - overheat this. 2nd and 3rd modules: Specific hardeners that you swap each mission (Armor Explosive Hardener II). Fit one of each for the damage your opponents do, so against Serpentis, one Kinetic, one Therm. If you get in trouble - overheat these, and do so early. 4th module (optional): Damage Control II. If you screw up badly, this will give you time to escape many situations by giving you a massive structure buffer. It also provides some armor resists.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
169
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Posted - 2015.02.25 04:30:51 -
[23] - Quote
So the OP is not confused, I do not disagree with these things, I post this as an opposing view point for others especially the OP to think about. In the end the only right or wrong in EvE is what works or does not work for you.
ergherhdfgh wrote:The game is down atm so I can't double check the numbers but iirc the gallente T1 ships have a 0% base explosive resist for armor tanking that is 50% if shield tanking and the opposite is true for EM with 0% EM resist to shields and 50% EM resist to armor. So if you are shooting at Angels you'll want to shield tank and if you are shooting at Bloodraiders or Sansha you'll want to armor tank. For new players I have always found it best to fit to the ships bonuses because it is unlikely that they have sufficient skills to offset the loss of those bonuses. Overall your point is well made and deserves serious consideration.
ergherhdfgh wrote:I use 2 Omnidirectional Tracking Links on my Domi. My sentries can one shot most frigs at snipping range and still kill them pretty quick even at close to 20 km. I find them to be very useful. Of course everyone has their own style so I suggest the OP try it both was and see which he likes better. I agree with the try it both ways the mods are relatively cheap even for a newer player.
Lights are a significantly better option for frigs and destroyers out as far as 15k to 20k and farther out sentries can hit them even without tracking links. When you factor in that in virtually all level 3 missions the frigs and desis will not stay that far out for long and you have to wonder why bother with the tracking links at all when the cap mods may be of more help. The cruiser class and up ships sentries can hit from about 8k to 10k and out without the links and when they are inside that range the mediums are a better choice anyway.
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Chal0ner
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
140
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Posted - 2015.02.25 07:19:40 -
[24] - Quote
Pod Panik wrote: The Myrmidon is pretty much a dedicated Armor Tank ship given his significant bonus to Armor Repair. I do have the skills to use the medium Armor Repairer t2, but so far I had a tendency to prefer Shield Tanking, and more precisely passive tanking. I feel kinda stress when my suffered damages burst through my shields...
The difference between shield tanking and armor tanking (coming from shield as I did):
Shield tanking == You think you are invincible, and then your not ... Armour tanking == You think you are going to die any second, and then you don't ...
Maybe not answering your question, but still
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Davey Talvanen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
26
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Posted - 2015.02.25 12:52:44 -
[25] - Quote
Pod Panik wrote:Hello all,
I am now doing L3 missions and I quickly found out that using my Vexor was a little tough. Therefore, I upgraded to a Myrmidon when I realized how similar the base skill set was. So here I am, flying this awkward vertical ship and being very happy with it.
The Myrmidon is pretty much a dedicated Armor Tank ship given his significant bonus to Armor Repair. I do have the skills to use the medium Armor Repairer t2, but so far I had a tendency to prefer Shield Tanking, and more precisely passive tanking. I feel kinda stress when my suffered damages burst through my shields...
Before the Myrmidon, I packed my Vexor with 3 Large Shield Extenders (T1) which gave him a pretty amazing 7000+ points of shield with a 30pts regen per sec. To go through L2 missions it was way more then enough.
Now I did the same with my Myrmidon (actually 4 Large Shield Extenders t2) for an impressive 16000+ points of shield and a 70/s regeneration rate. Again, its way more then what I need so far for L3 missions.
This said, I feel that I am passing something good not using Armor Tanking when considering that I do not use the Myrmidon bonus to repair armor at all. And in the spirit of understanding the game and trying many aspects of it, I may try it just for fun...
So for armor tanking, all I require are one or two Armor repairer, some armor harner and possibly some armor extenders. I should also probably add a couple Caps recharger to help maintain my Repairers active. Am I missing anything?
And as for my shield, they essentially become a temporary buffer before damage gets to my Armor? There is nothing else to be done with it?
Thanks for the Wisdom Sharing...
What was your vexor fit, I've done some of the easier null-sec sites in a vexor and I was fine. You just need a 100MN AB and a armour repairer + faction resist mods to run it with ease. You'll only have about 6k EHP but you'll barley be hit and the repairer will mean you can tank any damage. though you'll need 3 cap recharger II's and a set of cap control rigs and only pulsing your repairer to be stable. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
169
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Posted - 2015.02.26 03:35:10 -
[26] - Quote
Davey Talvanen wrote:What was your vexor fit, I've done some of the easier null-sec sites in a vexor and I was fine. You just need a 100MN AB and a armour repairer + faction resist mods to run it with ease. You'll only have about 6k EHP but you'll barley be hit and the repairer will mean you can tank any damage. though you'll need 3 cap recharger II's and a set of cap control rigs and only pulsing your repairer to be stable. Wondering here, did you read the OP and realize that we are dealing with new players that may be heavily ISK and skill point restricted? Fitting a 100mn afterburner on a Vex especially for a new player will only yield a virtually instantly dead capacitor the moment they turn it on leaving them with all manor of problems we are trying to help him avoid and that is if they can even fit it since I never tried a 100mn on a Vexor. Even a 10mn AB can be difficult to fit with low skills and the compromises it forces on your tank/capacitor.
While faction mods are great and not expensive in the grand scheme of things in EvE a single faction mod can still cost significantly more than the Vexor itself and again we are talking about new players that may have highly restricted ISK available.
I would suggest that you spend more time reading OP and subsequent posts from that player and then give them suggestions that are a reasonable alternative for them to consider. |
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