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TornSoul
BIG R i s e
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Posted - 2006.10.08 17:38:00 -
[1]
www.BIG-EVE.com/BMBE
This is the eigth BMBE shareholder report.
- September dividend
- September BMBE re-investment
- Oktober forecast
- "Editorial"
September dividend
September dividend : 0 ISK This equals to 0 ISK per share
This (unfortunatly) precisely matches the forecast from last months shareholder report.
September BMBE re-investment No dividend, no reinvestment. Really not much else to say about that one...
Oktober forecast The forecast is based solely on the profit of existing loans and thus doesnt take into consideration if new loans will be made during the month.
Oktober dividend forecast : 0 ISK Which equals 0 ISK per share
Oktober BMBE re-investment : 0 ISK
Sadly it looks as if Oktober also will be a month of zero profit for the BMBE.
"Editorial" (from The state of the EVE stock market.) Dark Shikari : TS, if you are reading this, please please please please advertise!
Dark, please please please tell me how...
In effect - The BMBE has a website - There is monthly shareholder reports - There is a thread in the Sell forum with a "provocative" title ([WTS] BMBE is selling ISK) - BMBE is mentioned in quite a few threads *not* started by me (try searching on eve-search)
Tried - But didn't (really) work - EVE-Radio advert - Posting BMBE "plugs" in "interesting" auctions. This actually *did* work (had an effect), but got shut down by the forum mods. - EVEmailing auctioneers directly to get them to plug the BMBE in thier auction post (no one ever did)
Things often suggested, but which I'm not going to do - SCC's in Jita (and similar places) at the gates with BMBE ad's - Spamming local in Jita (and similar places) with BMBE ad's
I hate spam myself, and I definatly dont want the BMBE ascociated with spam.
I'm personally out of any other ideas on how to advertice the BMBE, but I'm more than open to suggestions.
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Originally by: Baun (from The state of the EVE stock market.) The only explanation for why loans aren't being taken must be that those who know about them just don't need them. Every big t2 producer knows about the loans, they just have all the isk they want anyway.
I'm afraid this might have a large effect.
Another reason (IMO) is the uncertainty about the effect of Kali on the prices of t2 BPO's (because of invention)
The announcement of this, was immidiatly (in hindsight) felt by the BMBE, both with regards to request for loans, enquiries about how BMBE "works", and actual loans taken out.
I believe this is holding back a lot of (the BIG) t2 investments atm - and thus indirectly holding back the BMBE as well.
"Everyone" is playing the "wait and see" game.
Theres sadly nothing the BMBE can do about that, except also play the "wait and see" game....
BIG Lottery
[u |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.08 17:42:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/10/2006 17:43:05 You're right, the cooling down of the T2 market for upcoming Kali has discouraged taking loans.
1. I did not know until this thread where to find the BMBE website. Put it in your sig, with something like "Get your EVE loans at the BMBE!"
2. Post threads every once in a while in various places.
3. Consider liquidating a portion of BMBE's ISK as a dividend if you cannot get enough loans to use it up. If, later, demand rises, BMBE can release more shares at the new price to get the ISK back.
4. Consider "loaning" BMBE's cash out to a new corporation to have it create profit.
5. Consider lowering the amount of profit you take as a salary.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
xlop
Gallente Yes no maybe - i dont know
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Posted - 2006.10.08 18:06:00 -
[3]
just do the honourable thing, take the isk and run
-- Imperial College London FTW -- |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.08 18:07:00 -
[4]
Originally by: xlop just do the honourable thing, take the isk and run
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
xlop
Gallente Yes no maybe - i dont know
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Posted - 2006.10.08 18:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: xlop on 08/10/2006 18:13:28
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: xlop just do the honourable thing, take the isk and run
is he playing a game or working for others to play the game?
just run off with the isk, it is in the long run better for you [more time to play the game and have FUN you know the reason you play games in the first place. And better for your shareholders [who will learn a valuable lesson]
-- Imperial College London FTW -- |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.08 19:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: xlop just run off with the isk, it is in the long run better for you [more time to play the game and have FUN you know the reason you play games in the first place. And better for your shareholders [who will learn a valuable lesson]
What valuable lesson? That there's no point in doing business in EVE?
Tornsoul's reputation is worth more than 100 billion ISK.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
xlop
Gallente Yes no maybe - i dont know
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Posted - 2006.10.08 19:17:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
What valuable lesson? That there's no point in doing business in EVE?
Tornsoul's reputation is worth more than 100 billion ISK.
he will be respected by more if he took the isk and bailed!
-- Imperial College London FTW -- |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.08 19:18:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/10/2006 19:24:09
Originally by: xlop
Originally by: Dark Shikari
What valuable lesson? That there's no point in doing business in EVE?
Tornsoul's reputation is worth more than 100 billion ISK.
he will be respected by more if he took the isk and bailed!
Unlikely.
I don't think anyone here could even name the guy who ran SVE.
Anyways, I suggest that Tornsoul call the mods to clean this troll out of the thread.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.08 19:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/10/2006 17:43:05 You're right, the cooling down of the T2 market for upcoming Kali has discouraged taking loans.
1. I did not know until this thread where to find the BMBE website. Put it in your sig, with something like "Get your EVE loans at the BMBE!"
2. Post threads every once in a while in various places.
Those things could help, but I really doubt they do anything.
Quote:
3. Consider liquidating a portion of BMBE's ISK as a dividend if you cannot get enough loans to use it up. If, later, demand rises, BMBE can release more shares at the new price to get the ISK back.
This is an interesting option and should be looked at.
Quote:
4. Consider "loaning" BMBE's cash out to a new corporation to have it create profit.
I have talked about with TS about this and I actually have a very interesting idea I am formulating to this effect.
Not surprisingly, TS is not enthusiastic about risking other people's money. It is good to be cautious, but it is going to be time to do something with this money soon. It is pretty hard to raise as much isk as they have, only AATP EMFI and FIN have done it and all of thes ventures are (to varying degrees) working. If you have this much isk you should be able to make money from it.
Quote:
5. Consider lowering the amount of profit you take as a salary.
This has been neccesary since the moment they changed business models. It needs to be addressed and it needs to be addressed now.
The work that is actually being done in no way justifies an even profit cut. It might not even justify 10%.
If the BMBE actually started running production and managing the isk actively there might be an argument for maintaining the profit split. Of course, I don't think AATP actually takes anywhere near this much profit and they are actively investing isk and doing a fair bit of grunt work.
In sum; SUBSTANTIALLY lower your profit cut. Start by cutting it in half as a sign of good faith.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.08 19:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: xlop Edited by: xlop on 08/10/2006 18:13:28
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: xlop just do the honourable thing, take the isk and run
is he playing a game or working for others to play the game?
just run off with the isk, it is in the long run better for you [more time to play the game and have FUN you know the reason you play games in the first place. And better for your shareholders [who will learn a valuable lesson]
The day Tornsoul "runs off" with anything is the day is the day the servers shut off and never get turned back on.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.08 19:20:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/10/2006 19:22:22
Originally by: Baun If the BMBE actually started running production and managing the isk actively there might be an argument for maintaining the profit split. Of course, I don't think AATP actually takes anywhere near this much profit and they are actively investing isk and doing a fair bit of grunt work.
In sum; SUBSTANTIALLY lower your profit cut. Start by cutting it in half as a sign of good faith.
I strongly agree with this. The high profit cut demonstrates selfishness, regardless of whether Tornsoul is selfish or not.
I run STUFF, and my profit share is 10% plus dividends (as I own some of the privately held shares). This is for what can be often over an hour a day of work and hellish spreadsheet management.
If I was Tornsoul, I would change profit sharing to 20(me)/20(growth)/60(divvies), liquidate half of BMBE (after trading was suspended on the market for a day to avoid people abusing buy and sell orders as share price is cut in half), and boost advertising.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Eefrit
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.08 20:57:00 -
[12]
As a past customer, let me give an honest and professional assesment as to why I believe BMBE has failed, and what can be done to fix the situation.
I do not believe a lack of advertising is the problem at all. Almost all producers that would make use of bridging finance in the leve know about BMBE. The issue is the product, plain and simple.
1) Customers are pressured into ending their loans as fast as possible, which is obviously not in the interests of BMBE. This is done by telling them that if they choose an option where they pay off the amount linearly over a fixed period that they will get a lower interest rate. In reality the "cheaper" option is actually a higher interest rate, but I will get to that later.
2) The interest rate is not varied according to market demand. If for 3 months there are ZERO loans and income, then it is clear that the product does not suit the marketplace. The excuse that people are holding back is complete rubbish in my humble opinion - take a look at the sales forum and you will see that there is a lot of market activity in high end BPOs.
3) The products are structured in such a way that BMBE expects the market to change to its benefit and not vice versa. If a customer wants to pay their loan off early, or extend it even, that option is not officially open to them although TornSoul may allow it at his discretion. Completely tying a client up keeps prospective clients away.
4) This may not apply to most people as most would not do the calculations themselves, but the current 1.5% loan is actually a 2.75% loan. As you pay off the loan, you are still paying interest on the maximum amount that the loan was at even if you have paid of 95% of the amount. That is essentially charging you interest on money you have already paid back.
I have brought each and every one of these issues up with TornSoul more than 2 months ago in a lot of detail, even making spreadsheets demonstrating this clearly, even with built in algorithms to manage the interest charged based on market demand.
My honest thoughts are that TornSoul is not a scammer and will not run off with Isk, but is clearly not qualified to run a venture like this. This is not an attack on integrity, but rather stating what is clear from current performance. I am however (thankfully) not a BMBE shareholder and have no real say in anything like this - not that shareholders appear to have any say either for that matter.
My suggestion is simple, either:
1) Disband BMBE and pay back Isk to shareholders, as it is clear that there is no real market for the services that BMBE is supposed to be offering.
2) Let someone who is qualified to manage something like this take over from TornSoul.
Overall I believe the shareholders whose Isk was invested under the pretense of getting a return should have a say in what the future of BMBE should be. Let me re-iterate that I do not have a problem with TornSoul, but rather with the overall performance of this venture as a whole.
If the venture was sorted out with a market related product, I would most liely make use of it again in the future, but even that would be at the expense of the investors who would under current profit splits only get a fraction of market related return on their investment.
Sincerely,
Eefrit
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WhiskeyDP
The Druids
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Posted - 2006.10.08 21:17:00 -
[13]
if anything have changed i would only say its more like its buyers market now then sellers.
t2 bpo's change owner hands everyday still. both cheap and expensive ones. the ppl who spend the high isk however probably have the isk already.
too much isk ingame anyone..? ==================
=== eve is not all about isk, its about enjoying the game. lots of iskies is not the same as enjoying the game |
EMFi Manager
EvE Mutual Fund Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.08 21:21:00 -
[14]
Since people asked:
EMFI is paying 5% to staff (2.5% to me 2.5% split over corpmembers) + dividends of shares bought by staff
AATP is paying 10% to staff + dividends of shares bought by staff
H-Te is paying 0% to staff (but the first shares @ 1m/share were bought by staff alone and shares are between 7 and 10m now)
STUFF is paying 10% to staff + dividends
It seems most corps (except ISS/BMBE) take between 0-10% I beleive ISS takes 30-50% (based on the 1-1.5b management fee? but that includes defenses? I don't remember, I will let ISS explain that) :P
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Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.08 21:43:00 -
[15]
Just to put my idea out there since most of the preeminent Eve market types seem to be reading the thread;
I think that if the loan related product is not viable (and I am not convinced that it is regardless of whether Eefrit's changes are made) the focus of the company needs to shift.
I propose that BMBE shift focus and become an investment bank. Instead of providing loans for individual purchases the corporation could underwrite the market issuance of IPOs.
The exact mechanism for this is something that I am still thinking about. In real life an investment bank takes a fixed commission (7% has become standard) of IPO share sales in exchange for performing the due diligence on the company in question and actually marketing the shares to buyers.
Ignoring the difference between firm commitment and best effort transactions, it would be difficult to apply the real life corrollary directly to BMBE without making some adjustments.
My initial thoughts are that BMBE would essentially add legitimacy to the IPO by attaching its name to it. To this end Tornsoul's presence is extremely well suited to the task. That said, in order to provide actual security, BMBE would have to have some sort of absolute control over assets to assure that there is no scam. I cannot quite figure out how this might work, but something along the lines of the FIN trust setup might be appropriate.
In the case of firm commitment IPOs BMBE would use the isk that it has and finance the BPO while taking a margin from the share sales. In return BMBE would actually control the assets deposited to the corporation and allow their use so as to minimize the risk of scamming.
In the case of best effort IPOs BMBE would devise a security scheme involving its oversight, and take a margin from the share sales, but not invest its shareholder's isk directly.
Whether the IPO was best effort or firm commitment would depend on the due dilligence outcome.
The problems I see so far with this idea are: 1. Tornsoul has no where near the time to do this, especially the due dillegence. His involvement though would have to be more than nominal. 2. Devising security schemes is difficult 3. The climate for IPOs is terrible at the moment. 4. I am not sure how much money could be generated by this until I can figure out what sort of capital level of an IPO we would be dealing with.
The real upside I see is: 1. Tornsoul's name lends real credibility to the (non-scam part of :P) issuance of an IPO. 2. Since the IPO climate is terrible at the moment but has shown potential generally, this product would fill a need that is only addressed in an ad hoc manner by EMFI & Co as per the FIN venture. 3. This could facilitate the investment of BMBE shareholder isk in cases where BMBE has real power to assure that there is not as much potential for a scam (vs. say investing it with companies they are not in and turning it into a second EMFI where the security is in diversification).
Anyway, if you can understand what I am getting at please crticize and poke holes. Otherwise ask questions to clarify confusion before doing so.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Alain DeMorgan
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Posted - 2006.10.09 02:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: TornSoul I'm personally out of any other ideas on how to advertice the BMBE, but I'm more than open to suggestions.
I investigated taking out a loan myself a few days ago. Here are a few comments as a potential customer:
The 2bil loan minimum eliminates most cheaper tech2 BPOs from consideration immediately. Seems to me that the cheaper BPOs are exactly the ones you should be targetting -- if you have enough isk on hand to cover the minimum 670mil for a 2billion loan + float for production and as a buffer for interest payments, you probably are close to enough isk to buy a cheaper BPO outright anyway, and it's considerably less risky to do that.
The website details appear to be out of date, I had to dig through the forum thread to get an idea of the current interest rates (and I still don't really know what they are..)
It's not clear what happens if you fail to make interest payments. This needs to be spelled out or you can't make a good risk assessment.
Eefrit is right on the mark about the table structure of the fixed-period loans being unattractive, & the ability to do partial loan repayments being needed.
So I guess the suggestions I'd have are:
- Reduce the minimum loan amount - Reconsider repayment & interest structure - Make your forum post and website clearer and make the current interest rates obvious
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Proton Power
Power Corrupts Trading Inc
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Posted - 2006.10.09 03:01:00 -
[17]
I take over 75 percent. -----------------------------------------------
Keep the Game Rolling. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.09 03:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Proton Power I take over 75 percent.
But you also own 75% of the corporation . In actuality, you take 0%.
By your logic, if I create a corporation with 100 million shares for 1k each and sell 1 million of them, I'm "taking" 99%. In actuality, I'm taking 0% of the shareholders' profit, and 100% of the profit from the corporation-owned shares.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Rthor
Gallente Smugglers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.09 07:29:00 -
[19]
I am just curious if all of the capital is still there which would be necessary for the option to disband to be viable. All the capital would not be there if there were loan defaults.
On the other hand, if there were no major loan defaults maybe the estimates of value of collateral are too conservative which could explain the lack of interest in taking out loans. If that is the case then maybe there is a market for loans and it's just that this venture is too conservative.
But mostly I think that the mechanism of collateral is a non-starter. I just dont think that I would take out a loan and give the isk to a seller of a t2 print, and then give t2 print(s) to the "bank" and then lose all ability to sell the production from the collateral print(s) unless I solve the logistics of supplying the materials to BMBE and then I still have to pay them interest. Where is the fun in that? And those are all costs that all add up to probably far beyond the actual interest charged.
And also where is the business in that if one only makes an assumption that auctions of t2 prints dont results in bargains, meaning that profit from production from a tech2 print does not offset interest on the loan used to buy it and all these other costs incurred to the collateral process. It only makes sense to take out a loan if the profit from production from the print at least offsets interest charges. Do you know if that is actually the case? Are there profitable prints available on the market at prices that make producing from them profitable?
If you consider these questions I think that you will be closer to making a decision what to do.
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Rabb Darktide
Artisans Of War
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Posted - 2006.10.09 08:08:00 -
[20]
I think that the reason no one wants a loan is that the rates are insane. 5% of the total per week? With a 5% origination fee? That's what, a 265% APR? Those are mob terms... |
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EMFi Manager
EvE Mutual Fund Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.09 08:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Rabb Darktide I think that the reason no one wants a loan is that the rates are insane. 5% of the total per week? With a 5% origination fee? That's what, a 265% APR? Those are mob terms...
Tornsoul doesn't have much choice in charging high rates, he needs to issue competative Dividends. After corporate growth and 40% salary. so... you do the math.
Honestly though, I think that for 40% you should also issue loans under 2b total value.... salary = labour.
More honestly... It has ran long ennough, I gave you the benefit a LOT of times..
I suggest that:
1/ you put the interest back up to a profitable level. 2/ you start a new corporation. 3/ you borrow all bmbe isk (you can use a lighter colleteral for yourself of course) 4/ you start paying interst. 5/ you start paying dividends.
or...
1/ Just pull the plug, issue all isk as dividends.. everyone walks away thinking "Good try, shame it didn't work, at least he didn't cling onto it like a octopus and at least he is honest and know when it has failed"
Some people only have 50m or so.. I have about 20b in BMBE, I had great hopes of great returns... but it has lasted long ennough now... make the isk work or step out.. but just sitting back and waiting time is over.
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herot
Icarus Ascendant
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Posted - 2006.10.09 09:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Eefrit My suggestion is simple, either:
1) Disband BMBE and pay back Isk to shareholders, as it is clear that there is no real market for the services that BMBE is supposed to be offering.
It was a valiant effort, but it has now run its course. I'm therefore lending my endorsement to the suggestion given above.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.09 09:27:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 09/10/2006 09:27:08
Originally by: EMFi Manager
Originally by: Rabb Darktide I think that the reason no one wants a loan is that the rates are insane. 5% of the total per week? With a 5% origination fee? That's what, a 265% APR? Those are mob terms...
Tornsoul doesn't have much choice in charging high rates, he needs to issue competative Dividends. After corporate growth and 40% salary. so... you do the math.
The obvious problem with the stated rate is that its nearly impossible to buy a T2 BPO with the loan, which was the entire plan all along.
I'm getting to the point where I would endorse liquidation also.
Its better than billions of ISK doing nothing.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
EMFi Manager
EvE Mutual Fund Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.09 10:32:00 -
[24]
Yeh, to be fair... Most BPO's are selling between 2.5 and 4 years payback atm.
Lets say I want to buy a 10bil BPO.. I have to bring 2.5b of own money, and BMBE will pay the rest, the BPO will pay 3.3b / year (for 3yr payback) or 5b/yr (for 2yr payback) or 6.7b / year (for 1.5yr payback)
Now I have to pay about 1.5% interest / week (I think this is the lowest) on 7.5b?
Which is 5.85b / year?
So theoretically I can use the service *if* I can find a BPO at 1.5yr payback or cheaper AND I have 25% of the isk liquid and then even it will take me 7.5years to pay of the loan?
This is in a market where, there are about 5 T2 BPO resellers that will just about buy anything and try to resell for 2-4yrs.
This is in a market where AATP, FIN, and some newer IPO's have 10's of bil to waiste on BPO's which will give a decent ROI?
Maybe it will become viable with Kali, but I doubt it. I will stick with my original reply...
EMFi had faith in you, EMFi is a big investor in BMBE, BMBE isn't producing the results we had hoped for. Lets change something radically, or lets stop the project.
It isn't working unfortunately... and I am sad to admit it, I had high hopes for your and my investors.
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Eefrit
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.09 12:37:00 -
[25]
Originally by: EMFi Manager Now I have to pay about 1.5% interest / week (I think this is the lowest)
EMFi, I suggest you do the maths yourself on this, but the advertised interest is 1.5% per week, but in reality it is 2.25%. If you took the figures to any bank in the world that is what they would tell you. This may be minor, but it is 50% more than what is being advertised and really grates me.
I do not believe it would be ethical to change the business plan to something else, as it would really need total shareholder aproval. The only simple solution there is that I can think of is disband.
Out of interest what was the interest that investors were at first told they would get when BMBE launched it's IPO?
Sincerely,
Eefrit
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EMFi Manager
EvE Mutual Fund Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.09 12:42:00 -
[26]
I think the advertised interest was 5.5%/week (or something) and that is what the first BMBE shares sold for. people expecting to see 5.5 x 4.3 / 2 monthly.
The business plan doesn't need to be changed if TS borrows all the isk himself (even without colleteral) and then generates profit from it.. he still would get the 40% salary for effectively managing 1 loan. it'd pain me to see him borrow the 102bil for 1.5% (or 2.25%) but it'd be better then nothing.
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Eefrit
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.09 12:53:00 -
[27]
Originally by: EMFi Manager The business plan doesn't need to be changed if TS borrows all the isk himself (even without colleteral) and then generates profit from it.. he still would get the 40% salary for effectively managing 1 loan. it'd pain me to see him borrow the 102bil for 1.5% (or 2.25%) but it'd be better then nothing.
Not sure on whether this is the case or not, but if TS raised the isk stating it was for the express purposes of setting up a "bank", then it is not ethical to change that without consent from 100% of the investors.
/Eefrit
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EMFi Manager
EvE Mutual Fund Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.09 13:05:00 -
[28]
Yes, and IF he fails to loan out the isk and instead loans it out to BIG or one of his own corporations (at the original interest rate, not the heavilly discounted one) noone would complain I'd say?
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Jaeger Orlofsson
VentureCorp CORE.
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Posted - 2006.10.09 14:24:00 -
[29]
In my opinion, if the BMBS concept is not viable the corp should be dissolved. If Torn wants to do a different business plan he should start again from scratch with a new IPO rather than change the BMBE into something else with the same name. Perhaps a shareholder vote to this effect may prove valuable to gauge the feeling of the investors (who lets face it are the true owners of the BMBE).
For what its worth I own 4 shares in BMBE, not a huge stake in case anyone wants to flame me for my view
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Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.09 17:00:00 -
[30]
Anyone care to comment on my idea since you seem to be looking for some radical new direction?
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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