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Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.10.09 19:14:00 - [61] Last I checked one the the main intented outcomes of corp wars was to destroy a corp, which shows you just how pathetic the thought process is for all the tards who sugfgested disbanding his corp and thus losing the war was an exploit. You know what? the intended purpose of corp wars was not so vets could dec noob's making a corp and greifing them for eternity until they quite the game, as a easy cheesy manner to rack up killmail. If you had half a brain you would understand that is not the point of corp wars. Corps wars are intended to serve as a means to an ooutcome of destroying the corp (by having it disband), ransoming a corp (corp pays you off to end the war), weaking the corp ( by having some members quit ), imposing your will on the corp )( IE leave our area or stop doing x,y,z and we end the war) , BUT NEVER EVER was it intended as a way for asshats to grief new players forming new corps for eternity and padding thier kill stats. still amazed some people are so simple as they actually would beleive having a corp disband from a war is an exploit LOL.... LOL!
Roshan longshot Gallente Order of the Arrow	Posted - 2006.10.09 19:24:00 - [62] Ok OP, your right. 'this' community has alot of bad apples. If you post anything on these forums that is against "In your face PvP" your going to get flamed and bad mouthed. Couple of years ago I used an alt to bring this to light. I made a list of 23 members of these forums, that would hammer a post down till the mods had no choice but to lock it. Sorry about my hyjack, but couple of years ago we were told what we could and could not do. and no I dont do linky...if you all want to find it, find it yourself. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Roshan longshot Gallente Order of the Arrow	Posted - 2006.10.09 19:26:00 - [63] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Last I checked one the the main intented outcomes of corp wars was to destroy a corp, which shows you just how pathetic the thought process is for all the tards who sugfgested disbanding his corp and thus losing the war was an exploit. You know what? the intended purpose of corp wars was not so vets could dec noob's making a corp and greifing them for eternity until they quite the game, as a easy cheesy manner to rack up killmail. If you had half a brain you would understand that is not the point of corp wars. Corps wars are intended to serve as a means to an ooutcome of destroying the corp (by having it disband), ransoming a corp (corp pays you off to end the war), weaking the corp ( by having some members quit ), imposing your will on the corp )( IE leave our area or stop doing x,y,z and we end the war) , BUT NEVER EVER was it intended as a way for asshats to grief new players forming new corps for eternity and padding thier kill stats. still amazed some people are so simple as they actually would beleive having a corp disband from a war is an exploit LOL.... LOL! I hate doing this but....Quoted for the truth... Well said. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Pax Althaleen Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.09 19:31:00 - [64] Quote: My final straw was the post I read yesterday about how a ceo wanted to dispand his corp that was war dec'd, so that his corp wouldnt have to pvp. He was compeletely flamed and trash talked. Personally - I was trying to help the OP. I thought I gave some pretty solid advice considering Their Limited CORP Resources and Skills. That said - Yeah - You speak up on these Forums by trying to help someone and You'll likely get Flambayed and Quartered. That said - WTF - I'm gonna keep doing it anyways... Respectfully, Pax Althaleen Holder - House Althaleen
mechtech	Posted - 2006.10.09 19:33:00 - [65] you're example was an exploit. I agree with you, but please, put some time into a better example, all this is is flame bait as it stands.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.09 20:06:00 - [66] Edited by: Cipher7 on 09/10/2006 20:08:55 Originally by: Cheese Baron Incorrect. If that were true there'd be no NPC's, missions, asteroids, stations, market, skills, or story. You'd just respawn at a random location in a fully fitted ship ready to run around a corner and frag or be fragged. Eve my friend is not a first person shooter... Market is PVP, resource gathering is PVP, industry is PVP. Missions don't fit the character of the game and I urge CCP to remove them, or move level 3 and 4 missions to lowsec. Originally by: Cheese Baron Only for closed-minded social degenerates with no imagination. Well, playing a PVP game and demanding everyone conform to your wishes, that's got to be a form of degeneracy in itself. This is how most of us play Eve, most of us like it dark and evil. You don't like it? Tough. We're not gonna change the game to suit you. Originally by: Cheese Baron Playing the game without being harrassed if you don't want it is a positive. Being ganked by social rejects that have nothing better to do than hunt peaceful civilians is a negative. You just made a great argument against your own point... Then stay in Empire and in a NPC corp. Originally by: Cheese Baron On this we agree. However, that loss will not be at the hands of "OMFGBBQKTHX I r Teh L337zorZ DIE nUb" morons. Uh then exactly where are your losses coming from? From what I understand, you demand the right to generate wealth non-stop with no losses and no isk sink. What is your contribution to the economy? At least pirates lose ships. They have to buy more. Builders build, miners mine, haulers haul, to build ships, for people to go out and lose them. Where do your losses come from? Originally by: Cheese Baron Not if it's lost to a legitimate source. Piracy and war dec'ing ganktards are not legitimate sources. Again what is a "legitimate" source to lose resources to? It's an ego trip on your part. You don't like the fact that you can be made to lose ANYTHING. Originally by: Cheese Baron And every state has prisons and insane asylums for psychotics. If EVE had them too then there would be no problem. New York City Crime Statistics Originally by: Cheese Baron And now for the real question. Why don't you just go fight people that want to fight back? Because that's not war, that's duelling. Nobody asked the Iraqi Army if they wanted a piece. The B2 bombers didn't fly a little lower to give anti-aircraft a chance. The snipers didn't paint day-glo stripes on their ghille suits. The Abrams tanks didn't remove half their armor so that the T-72's could pierce them. Squaring off with equal forces is not entertaining to me, because it is not believable. Guerilla warfare is believable. Bringing to bear my many vs your few. Using small fast units to kill 1 big unit of yours then run away. I think they should package a Sun Tzu .pdf with every Eve download so people understand what war is about. Anyway I can think of a million ways to hurt a mismatched wardec corp. Instead of asking for advice you turn it into a whine against war itself. There is a way to operate in Eve, a way to operate and survive without being harassed. This is tribal knowledge that is not in any user manual. You have to make friends and ask and use your own brain. But you rather whine about it so keep whining.
DuckM4n Vo	Posted - 2006.10.09 20:17:00 - [67] YOU ARE A WUSS!!! YOU GAVE TO PEER PRESSURE!!! You are not allowed to complain if you didnt step up to that persons defense, pu ss y btw... I am ashamed of you too.
Tas Devil JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.10.09 20:23:00 - [68] Originally by: Kaiu Originally by: Biltic Creen Originally by: KnightCrawler I actualy think he deserved props for being new and figuring out how to manipulate the game mechanics in his favor without breaking the rules so that he didnt have to pvp after being war dec'd and that the corp that war dec'd him just lost million of isk to fight a corp that doesnt exist. 1. AFAIK leaving a corp to get out of the way of war-decs is classified as an exploit. I was about to say this... And you are both wrong there is nothing wrong with this... most pirates do it all the time... using 2 or 3 corps they alternate between to avoid war decs Tas The best Laugh ever ... Credit goes to Killer8 for this ! This includes bad language... so beware
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.10.09 20:36:00 - [69] Originally by: Tas Devil And you are both wrong there is nothing wrong with this... most pirates do it all the time... using 2 or 3 corps they alternate between to avoid war decs Umm... most pirates are -5 or below and could care less about war decs since they can be attacked anywhere at anytime by anyone.
Rock Saw	Posted - 2006.10.09 20:36:00 - [70] 1. Eve is for any and everyone. No matter what is said in any official documents. CCP would rather have monthly payment, even if it comes with a whine. FACT. 2. If you want to disband a corp becuase you were war decced. Do it... there's nothing wrong. It is NOT an exploit. No one, not a GM, not a DEV, not even CCP can tell you that you and your corp must remain intact. FACT. 3. Op is so right. FACT.

Rock Saw	Posted - 2006.10.09 20:38:00 - [71] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Tas Devil And you are both wrong there is nothing wrong with this... most pirates do it all the time... using 2 or 3 corps they alternate between to avoid war decs Umm... most pirates are -5 or below and could care less about war decs since they can be attacked anywhere at anytime by anyone. Most pirates are high sec Empire huggers too afraid to head into 0.0 so they war dec noob corps.
Novan Leon	Posted - 2006.10.09 20:48:00 - [72] I love how this thread is playing out. Honestly, I didn't think this forum was all that bad. The internet is a crazy place where people are freed from thier inhibitions and encouraged to make idiots out of themselves under the guise of anonymity. Take everything people say on the internet with a grain of salt and you'll be ok, begin letting stuff you read online hurt your feelings and you're in big trouble. There's always a small percentage of people who make the loudest noise, ignore them and you'll do fine.
Exlegion Caldari Legion's Knight	Posted - 2006.10.09 21:04:00 - [73] Originally by: Cipher7 Edited by: Cipher7 on 09/10/2006 20:08:55 Originally by: Cheese Baron Incorrect. If that were true there'd be no NPC's, missions, asteroids, stations, market, skills, or story. You'd just respawn at a random location in a fully fitted ship ready to run around a corner and frag or be fragged. Eve my friend is not a first person shooter... Market is PVP, resource gathering is PVP, industry is PVP. Missions don't fit the character of the game and I urge CCP to remove them, or move level 3 and 4 missions to lowsec. Originally by: Cheese Baron Only for closed-minded social degenerates with no imagination. Well, playing a PVP game and demanding everyone conform to your wishes, that's got to be a form of degeneracy in itself. This is how most of us play Eve, most of us like it dark and evil. You don't like it? Tough. We're not gonna change the game to suit you. Originally by: Cheese Baron Playing the game without being harrassed if you don't want it is a positive. Being ganked by social rejects that have nothing better to do than hunt peaceful civilians is a negative. You just made a great argument against your own point... Then stay in Empire and in a NPC corp. Originally by: Cheese Baron On this we agree. However, that loss will not be at the hands of "OMFGBBQKTHX I r Teh L337zorZ DIE nUb" morons. Uh then exactly where are your losses coming from? From what I understand, you demand the right to generate wealth non-stop with no losses and no isk sink. What is your contribution to the economy? At least pirates lose ships. They have to buy more. Builders build, miners mine, haulers haul, to build ships, for people to go out and lose them. Where do your losses come from? Originally by: Cheese Baron Not if it's lost to a legitimate source. Piracy and war dec'ing ganktards are not legitimate sources. Again what is a "legitimate" source to lose resources to? It's an ego trip on your part. You don't like the fact that you can be made to lose ANYTHING. Originally by: Cheese Baron And every state has prisons and insane asylums for psychotics. If EVE had them too then there would be no problem. New York City Crime Statistics Originally by: Cheese Baron And now for the real question. Why don't you just go fight people that want to fight back? Because that's not war, that's duelling. Nobody asked the Iraqi Army if they wanted a piece. The B2 bombers didn't fly a little lower to give anti-aircraft a chance. The snipers didn't paint day-glo stripes on their ghille suits. The Abrams tanks didn't remove half their armor so that the T-72's could pierce them. Squaring off with equal forces is not entertaining to me, because it is not believable. Guerilla warfare is believable. Bringing to bear my many vs your few. Using small fast units to kill 1 big unit of yours then run away. I think they should package a Sun Tzu .pdf with every Eve download so people understand what war is about. Anyway I can think of a million ways to hurt a mismatched wardec corp. Instead of asking for advice you turn it into a whine against war itself. There is a way to operate in Eve, a way to operate and survive without being harassed. This is tribal knowledge that is not in any user manual. You have to make friends and ask and use your own brain. But you rather whine about it so keep whining. Cypher, Do you see where you contradict yourself? (Emphasis bold)
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks	Posted - 2006.10.09 21:16:00 - [74] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 09/10/2006 21:18:36 I think you're all nuts to be quite honest. Oh and inter-corp wardecs need to be more expensive. Also the redefining of PvP to include player-interaction type events such as market competition is complete crap. PvP has, does, and always will mean players shooting at each other and nothing more.
Hyo Velka	Posted - 2006.10.09 21:31:00 - [75] Originally by: Biltic Creen 1. AFAIK leaving a corp to get out of the way of war-decs is classified as an exploit. Correction. Leaving a corp for the duration of the war and THEN returning to it, for the sole purpose of avoiding the war is classed as an 'exploit' (you know, the same thing as selling isk on E-BAY or using uber-bugged mods in PvP). Absurd... And the OP's right. The EVE community took the term "abusive" and made it an art. It's hard to find friendly advice in the General Forum (admittedly the other more specialised ones aren't too bad, but you can still find abuse when people get bored).
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.10.09 21:41:00 - [76] Originally by: Rock Saw 2. If you want to disband a corp becuase you were war decced. Do it... there's nothing wrong. It is NOT an exploit. No one, not a GM, not a DEV, not even CCP can tell you that you and your corp must remain intact. FACT. Correct but continually quitting and reforming used to be an exploit. I say used to be its one of those that has fallen by the way side and is too dificult to prove. So there is really no official answer to that question now. Because you could consider that as harrassment. So I doubt CCP know what the current stance is, but exploiting isn't really punished now. As long as you don't ebay all is cool. But anyway the OP is right the forums have gone downhill along with the community. The reasons being that most players used to be from a small number of countries that seemed to have a lot in common (now opinions are so diverse, not bad thing by the way). The community was largely mature, there weren't many youngsters and those we did have seemed to be beyond their years. EVE was also really harsh in the early days so people that were crap at playing died away fairly rapidly. Now its easy people that can't really play can actually survive. Also you couldn't buy accounts. Now we have old characters spouting crap as though they've playing from day one when its fairly obvious they haven't or they have selective amnesia. --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.09 21:42:00 - [77] Originally by: Hyo Velka Originally by: Biltic Creen 1. AFAIK leaving a corp to get out of the way of war-decs is classified as an exploit. Correction. Leaving a corp for the duration of the war and THEN returning to it, for the sole purpose of avoiding the war is classed as an 'exploit' (you know, the same thing as selling isk on E-BAY or using uber-bugged mods in PvP). Absurd... And the OP's right. The EVE community took the term "abusive" and made it an art. It's hard to find friendly advice in the General Forum (admittedly the other more specialised ones aren't too bad, but you can still find abuse when people get bored). Yup yet you can log off to avoid a bubble and thats totally fine. CCP logic is something to be desired. The Privateering Life
Bjon	Posted - 2006.10.09 21:55:00 - [78] Lol you should check out the wow forums, those are much worse then anything that the eve community has to offer :P
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.10.09 22:04:00 - [79] Originally by: Novan Leon I love how this thread is playing out. Honestly, I didn't think this forum was all that bad. The internet is a crazy place where people are freed from thier inhibitions and encouraged to make idiots out of themselves under the guise of anonymity. Take everything people say on the internet with a grain of salt and you'll be ok, begin letting stuff you read online hurt your feelings and you're in big trouble. There's always a small percentage of people who make the loudest noise, ignore them and you'll do fine. Basically, yah.
Cheese Baron Gallente Pound Of Cheese	Posted - 2006.10.09 22:24:00 - [80] Edited by: Cheese Baron on 09/10/2006 22:27:32 Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Cipher7 Edited by: Cipher7 on 09/10/2006 20:08:55 Originally by: Cheese Baron Incorrect. If that were true there'd be no NPC's, missions, asteroids, stations, market, skills, or story. You'd just respawn at a random location in a fully fitted ship ready to run around a corner and frag or be fragged. Eve my friend is not a first person shooter... Market is PVP, resource gathering is PVP, industry is PVP. Missions don't fit the character of the game and I urge CCP to remove them, or move level 3 and 4 missions to lowsec. Originally by: Cheese Baron Only for closed-minded social degenerates with no imagination. Well, playing a PVP game and demanding everyone conform to your wishes, that's got to be a form of degeneracy in itself. This is how most of us play Eve, most of us like it dark and evil. You don't like it? Tough. We're not gonna change the game to suit you. Originally by: Cheese Baron Playing the game without being harrassed if you don't want it is a positive. Being ganked by social rejects that have nothing better to do than hunt peaceful civilians is a negative. You just made a great argument against your own point... Then stay in Empire and in a NPC corp. Originally by: Cheese Baron On this we agree. However, that loss will not be at the hands of "OMFGBBQKTHX I r Teh L337zorZ DIE nUb" morons. Uh then exactly where are your losses coming from? From what I understand, you demand the right to generate wealth non-stop with no losses and no isk sink. What is your contribution to the economy? At least pirates lose ships. They have to buy more. Builders build, miners mine, haulers haul, to build ships, for people to go out and lose them. Where do your losses come from? Originally by: Cheese Baron Not if it's lost to a legitimate source. Piracy and war dec'ing ganktards are not legitimate sources. Again what is a "legitimate" source to lose resources to? It's an ego trip on your part. You don't like the fact that you can be made to lose ANYTHING. Originally by: Cheese Baron And every state has prisons and insane asylums for psychotics. If EVE had them too then there would be no problem. New York City Crime Statistics Originally by: Cheese Baron And now for the real question. Why don't you just go fight people that want to fight back? Because that's not war, that's duelling. Nobody asked the Iraqi Army if they wanted a piece. The B2 bombers didn't fly a little lower to give anti-aircraft a chance. The snipers didn't paint day-glo stripes on their ghille suits. The Abrams tanks didn't remove half their armor so that the T-72's could pierce them. Squaring off with equal forces is not entertaining to me, because it is not believable. Guerilla warfare is believable. Bringing to bear my many vs your few. Using small fast units to kill 1 big unit of yours then run away. I think they should package a Sun Tzu .pdf with every Eve download so people understand what war is about. Anyway I can think of a million ways to hurt a mismatched wardec corp. Instead of asking for advice you turn it into a whine against war itself. There is a way to operate in Eve, a way to operate and survive without being harassed. This is tribal knowledge that is not in any user manual. You have to make friends and ask and use your own brain. But you rather whine about it so keep whining. Cypher, Do you see where you contradict yourself? (Emphasis bold) LOL I also thought it was amusing how he provided a link to crime statistics as an attempt to prove something and AGAIN contradicted his own point. This guy's attempts to defend being a complete turd in the game are hilarious!

d'hofren Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.09 22:26:00 - [81] Edited by: d''hofren on 09/10/2006 22:31:35 I think that some of the vets get dispondant at times. I know I do and in no way could you call me a vet. Over the last few months these forums have degenerated, and we have seen a huge number of generic moans, "my ship can't win every 1vs1", "I can't always escape pirates", "pvp ruins the game for me", "the tII lottery is unfair" etc.... A lot of the older forums folks have more or less given up with eve-o forums now. The characters who kept things under control, with wit humour and insight have gone and now it is purely down to the mod squad to enforce order.
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.09 22:48:00 - [82] Originally by: Cheese Baron Edited by: Cheese Baron on 09/10/2006 22:27:32 Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Cipher7 Edited by: Cipher7 on 09/10/2006 20:08:55 Originally by: Cheese Baron Incorrect. If that were true there'd be no NPC's, missions, asteroids, stations, market, skills, or story. You'd just respawn at a random location in a fully fitted ship ready to run around a corner and frag or be fragged. Eve my friend is not a first person shooter... Market is PVP, resource gathering is PVP, industry is PVP. Missions don't fit the character of the game and I urge CCP to remove them, or move level 3 and 4 missions to lowsec. Originally by: Cheese Baron Only for closed-minded social degenerates with no imagination. Well, playing a PVP game and demanding everyone conform to your wishes, that's got to be a form of degeneracy in itself. This is how most of us play Eve, most of us like it dark and evil. You don't like it? Tough. We're not gonna change the game to suit you. Originally by: Cheese Baron Playing the game without being harrassed if you don't want it is a positive. Being ganked by social rejects that have nothing better to do than hunt peaceful civilians is a negative. You just made a great argument against your own point... Then stay in Empire and in a NPC corp. Originally by: Cheese Baron On this we agree. However, that loss will not be at the hands of "OMFGBBQKTHX I r Teh L337zorZ DIE nUb" morons. Uh then exactly where are your losses coming from? From what I understand, you demand the right to generate wealth non-stop with no losses and no isk sink. What is your contribution to the economy? At least pirates lose ships. They have to buy more. Builders build, miners mine, haulers haul, to build ships, for people to go out and lose them. Where do your losses come from? Originally by: Cheese Baron Not if it's lost to a legitimate source. Piracy and war dec'ing ganktards are not legitimate sources. Again what is a "legitimate" source to lose resources to? It's an ego trip on your part. You don't like the fact that you can be made to lose ANYTHING. Originally by: Cheese Baron And every state has prisons and insane asylums for psychotics. If EVE had them too then there would be no problem. New York City Crime Statistics Originally by: Cheese Baron And now for the real question. Why don't you just go fight people that want to fight back? Because that's not war, that's duelling. Nobody asked the Iraqi Army if they wanted a piece. The B2 bombers didn't fly a little lower to give anti-aircraft a chance. The snipers didn't paint day-glo stripes on their ghille suits. The Abrams tanks didn't remove half their armor so that the T-72's could pierce them. Squaring off with equal forces is not entertaining to me, because it is not believable. Guerilla warfare is believable. Bringing to bear my many vs your few. Using small fast units to kill 1 big unit of yours then run away. I think they should package a Sun Tzu .pdf with every Eve download so people understand what war is about. Anyway I can think of a million ways to hurt a mismatched wardec corp. Instead of asking for advice you turn it into a whine against war itself. There is a way to operate in Eve, a way to operate and survive without being harassed. This is tribal knowledge that is not in any user manual. You have to make friends and ask and use your own brain. But you rather whine about it so keep whining. Cypher, Do you see where you contradict yourself? (Emphasis bold) LOL I also thought it was amusing how he provided a link to crime statistics as an attempt to prove something and AGAIN contradicted his own point. This guy's attempts to defend being a complete turd in the game are hilarious! Made me laugh as well. ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.10.10 04:52:00 - [83] "I think that some of the vets get dispondant at times. I know I do and in no way could you call me a vet. Over the last few months these forums have degenerated, and we have seen a huge number of generic moans, "my ship can't win every 1vs1", "I can't always escape pirates", "pvp ruins the game for me", "the tII lottery is unfair" etc.... " Amazing how some people just don;t get it. I don't care if you played EVE beta 1. You have no clue how or what EVe is or was intended to be. Furthermore I personally will never understand they mental weakness of people who are to scared to PVP against all the other people who ALSO want pvp and instead constantly search for ways to PK people who don;t even fight back. I just cannot imagine how weak of a gamer you must be to enjoy such a playstyle. I can't even beleive you mentioned people should not be angry about the debotchery that is the t2 lottery. It is like a MASSIVE ISK exploit that allows you to DUPE insane amounts of money for no risk, and ZERO effort. It is infact a FAR FAR worse game imbalance than the recently discovered and fix abuse of complex spawns. When someone can sit in a hangar and make billions of ISK in an hour or less of queing up orders you got some kinda seriously broken feature, it should have been emergency fixed ages. I mean there are flat out whines and then there are legitamite gameplay and balance issues. Stuff like t2 ammo allowing insane sniping ranges, and design imposed monopoly og t2 market that scream for playerbase complaints and should be addressed immediately. If you can;t understand why those need to be fixed , it matters not if you're a vet or 1 day old account you should best just keep queit and trust everyone else that it really needs to be addresed.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.10 05:22:00 - [84] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Amazing how some people just don;t get it. I don't care if you played EVE beta 1. You have no clue how or what EVe is or was intended to be. Furthermore I personally will never understand they mental weakness of people who are to scared to PVP against all the other people who ALSO want pvp and instead constantly search for ways to PK people who don;t even fight back. uhm ... wouldn't be then the best way to defend against such "griefers" to fight back - as the "victims" gain experience by fighting and maybe they can even earn some money by doing so (t2 fitted "griefers" 4tw!) ... or atleast the "griefers" will run and hide Quote: I just cannot imagine how weak of a gamer you must be to enjoy such a playstyle. I can't even beleive you mentioned people should not be angry about the debotchery that is the t2 lottery. It is like a MASSIVE ISK exploit that allows you to DUPE insane amounts of money for no risk, and ZERO effort. It is infact a FAR FAR worse game imbalance than the recently discovered and fix abuse of complex spawns. When someone can sit in a hangar and make billions of ISK in an hour or less of queing up orders you got some kinda seriously broken feature, it should have been emergency fixed ages. I mean there are flat out whines and then there are legitamite gameplay and balance issues. Stuff like t2 ammo allowing insane sniping ranges, and design imposed monopoly og t2 market that scream for playerbase complaints and should be addressed immediately. If you can;t understand why those need to be fixed , it matters not if you're a vet or 1 day old account you should best just keep queit and trust everyone else that it really needs to be addresed. imho the given examples were not the best ones ... but his argument is still valid. for example jumpclones - a few month ago there was quite a consensus that jumpclone timer never ever should decreased as it would be overpowered - lots of "veterans" were vocal in these threads. a few weeks ago again it got asked why there's no decrease in jumpclone timers - suddenly the consensus was: "yay - good idea" ... surprise or not - most of the posters in this thread were quite "young" characters - only one or two "veterans" posted. or the whole "omg i got attacked in lowsec - CCP nerf pirates!!1!" threads where people are suprised that EVE allows non-consensual combat and want it nerfed. it's quite annoying to have to reply to the same topics regarding intended game mechanics again and again - and imho it's no surprise that certain topics are likely to be flamed. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.10.10 05:51:00 - [85] thats what makes eve the way it is whiners get shouted down and all is well
Eric Secundus Caldari NorwegianHeaven	Posted - 2006.10.10 06:23:00 - [86] Edited by: Eric Secundus on 10/10/2006 06:25:27 Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Amazing how some people just don;t get it. I don't care if you played EVE beta 1. You have no clue how or what EVe is or was intended to be. Furthermore I personally will never understand they mental weakness of people who are to scared to PVP against all the other people who ALSO want pvp and instead constantly search for ways to PK people who don;t even fight back. uhm ... wouldn't be then the best way to defend against such "griefers" to fight back - as the "victims" gain experience by fighting and maybe they can even earn some money by doing so (t2 fitted "griefers" 4tw!) ... or atleast the "griefers" will run and hide How about if you dont want to fight? Last time i checked, running away or trying to mind your own business IS legal in EVE? Not that it should be commended or automatically give you the rights got be ignored, but it seems 90% of the PVPers have a hard time with combining 2 commonly uttered "facts of EVE". 1 Everything in EVE is PVP, market and industry included. 2 If you dont want to FIGHT you must learn to, as this is a PVP MMO. Now combine these two. If you dont fight but play the market for instance, you are in fact doing PVP (according to point 1), yet still you get told to "get into PVP" whenever you try to avoid someone wanting to attack you for easy money (because you see, you cant traing fighting skills AND market/industry/whatever skills at the same time.. and some people simply dont WANT to learn to fight in this game, as they dont like that particular PVP aspect of all the PVP aspects in it.) Now this wasnt particularly against you Ishquar, just the topic you brought up with that "why not learn to fight back" comment. You dont seem like the kind to scream the loudest that all non-combat PVPers are carebears and should go to WOW or learn to "play EVE properly" But I'm still amazed after quite some time in this game at how those two topics are often brought up yet STILL people dont seem to be able to put them together in one thought To the OP: YES! These forums have degraded like a dead body in a tropical jungle for some time now. You still see the glimmer of the shape and form that once was, but its mostly overshadowed by all the grubs and worms now clinging to it while turning it into their kind of environment. - I don't argue with morons. They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience -
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.10.10 06:25:00 - [87] PVPers whine when targets get away they dont like loosing its what causes a lot of hassles
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.10.10 06:27:00 - [88] Originally by: KnightCrawler You know what, He pays the monthly fee, let him play how he chooses, if he doesnt want to pvp that his damn choice. While I agree with your sentiments, I have to point out that a large part of the player base pays their fees for PVP and - sad, but true - for the right to smack and misbehave in local and to be abusive here on the forums... It's all part of the game and while I would welcome fewer pirate kiddies whose lives consist of harassing other players, that's how it is and they have the right to play like that.
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.10 06:29:00 - [89] I was gonna flame you, but I guess I will say this instead. We need better, more obvious tools to initiate ties with newer players and newer corps. The more they are properly innured to the corporate nightmare, the sooner they will become as evil as we are. f.ex: links to chat channels in mission windows like for narcotics. One for each faction/corp. Simple things are the most far reaching in terms of what the community will do with it. --- Private Investment should preceed Public Investment
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.10.10 06:29:00 - [90] Originally by: Biltic Creen 1. AFAIK leaving a corp to get out of the way of war-decs is classified as an exploit. Certainly not. It would be an exploit to disband a corp because of a war declaration and form a new one with the same members. Just leaving a corp or staying disbanded isn't an exploit.

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