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Elana Apgar
DarkMatter-Industries Upholders
12
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Posted - 2015.02.25 19:36:53 -
[1] - Quote
People should acquire suspect timers when handling stolen loot. With the mechanics as is right now, people handling stolen loot don't get timers. It's like a logi pilot repping a suspect and not getting a timer.
For instance, I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.
The frigates went suspect but the pilot of the DST and the Charon did not. The frigates were able to dump the loot instantly so while we killed them too, there were no real repercussions for them (the gankers) because they never lost the loot at all.
So if ganking is allowed, bumping without aggression is allowed, and hyperdunking is allowed, AND they can loot the wrecks without going suspect, how is this whole thing not broken?
People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect. |
Cannibal Kane
Blood Raiders Elite
4776
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Posted - 2015.02.25 19:41:46 -
[2] - Quote
Elana Apgar wrote:People should acquire suspect timers when handling stolen loot. With the mechanics as is right now, people handling stolen loot don't get timers. It's like a logi pilot repping a suspect and not getting a timer.
For instance, I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.
The frigates went suspect but the pilot of the DST and the Charon did not. The frigates were able to dump the loot instantly so while we killed them too, there were no real repercussions for them (the gankers) because they never lost the loot at all.
So if ganking is allowed, bumping without aggression is allowed, and hyperdunking is allowed, AND they can loot the wrecks without going suspect, how is this whole thing not broken?
People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect.
But the guy that stole did go suspect. He was just smarter than you.
So lets say they do implement something like that. If you kill the charon and take the loot that will then make you suspect as well. since now you also have stolen loot in the cargo hold.
"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
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Renegade Heart
Micro N2
420
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Posted - 2015.02.25 19:46:57 -
[3] - Quote
Elana Apgar wrote:they can loot the wrecks without going suspect
No they can't. You can't even steal the stuff unless your safety is off. You have time to lock them up and instapop before they can move the loot to someone else. I see you tried this but clearly you were too slow!
Elana Apgar wrote:People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect.
Agreed. If you purchase stolen goods from someone in a station, and undock without handing the "evidence" into the police, you should go suspect the instant you undock! This is fair right?
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
107
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Posted - 2015.02.25 19:48:44 -
[4] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Elana Apgar wrote:People should acquire suspect timers when handling stolen loot. With the mechanics as is right now, people handling stolen loot don't get timers. It's like a logi pilot repping a suspect and not getting a timer.
For instance, I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.
The frigates went suspect but the pilot of the DST and the Charon did not. The frigates were able to dump the loot instantly so while we killed them too, there were no real repercussions for them (the gankers) because they never lost the loot at all.
So if ganking is allowed, bumping without aggression is allowed, and hyperdunking is allowed, AND they can loot the wrecks without going suspect, how is this whole thing not broken?
People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect. But the guy that stole did go suspect. He was just smarter than you. So lets say they do implement something like that. If you kill the charon and take the loot that will then make you suspect as well. since now you also have stolen loot in the cargo hold.
Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships.
I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.
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Cannibal Kane
Blood Raiders Elite
4777
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Posted - 2015.02.25 19:50:11 -
[5] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Elana Apgar wrote:People should acquire suspect timers when handling stolen loot. With the mechanics as is right now, people handling stolen loot don't get timers. It's like a logi pilot repping a suspect and not getting a timer.
For instance, I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.
The frigates went suspect but the pilot of the DST and the Charon did not. The frigates were able to dump the loot instantly so while we killed them too, there were no real repercussions for them (the gankers) because they never lost the loot at all.
So if ganking is allowed, bumping without aggression is allowed, and hyperdunking is allowed, AND they can loot the wrecks without going suspect, how is this whole thing not broken?
People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect. But the guy that stole did go suspect. He was just smarter than you. So lets say they do implement something like that. If you kill the charon and take the loot that will then make you suspect as well. since now you also have stolen loot in the cargo hold. Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships. I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.
It is supposed to make about as much sense as the OP's idea.
"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
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Futt Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2015.02.25 21:18:32 -
[6] - Quote
OP's idea, assuming no LEGACYCODE problems, is simple.
Stolen items have a 'stolen' tag until the ship containing them docks in a station. Anyone who picks up an item with a 'stolen' tag is rendered suspect.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
667
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Posted - 2015.02.25 21:21:15 -
[7] - Quote
Elana Apgar wrote:People should acquire suspect timers when handling stolen loot. With the mechanics as is right now, people handling stolen loot don't get timers. It's like a logi pilot repping a suspect and not getting a timer.
For instance, I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST. This seems more like a feature or idea you are proposing. But if you would like to discuss here, why would you want to do this even if it was even possible to code in the game?
This would make ganking much less profitable due to the lost loot and/or ships lost in the course of trying to grab the loot. Why would you want to take away the primary monetary incentive to a "profession" that CCP has coded into the game?
Elana Apgar wrote:So if ganking is allowed, bumping without aggression is allowed, and hyperdunking is allowed, AND they can loot the wrecks without going suspect, how is this whole thing not broken? It has been put into the game on purpose to provide some small amount of risk to haulers. A freighter can with modest effort avoid gankers (with a scout/webber, some tank and not overloading) with nearly 100% success. More importantly, the risk of freighters to bumping provides a slight disincentive for using an AFK hauler to move everything in highsec. Freighters need to have a weakness to offset their massive EHP, and that is to bumping.
Without bumping and loot recovery there would be practically no freighter ganking in highsec, just AFK freighters silently crossing highsec all day long. Do you really think this version of highsec, also absent of gankers and anti-gankers and the player-driven conflict they engage in would be an improvement for the game?
Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
2117
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Posted - 2015.02.26 04:29:01 -
[8] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Elana Apgar wrote:People should acquire suspect timers when handling stolen loot. With the mechanics as is right now, people handling stolen loot don't get timers. It's like a logi pilot repping a suspect and not getting a timer.
For instance, I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.
The frigates went suspect but the pilot of the DST and the Charon did not. The frigates were able to dump the loot instantly so while we killed them too, there were no real repercussions for them (the gankers) because they never lost the loot at all.
So if ganking is allowed, bumping without aggression is allowed, and hyperdunking is allowed, AND they can loot the wrecks without going suspect, how is this whole thing not broken?
People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect. But the guy that stole did go suspect. He was just smarter than you. So lets say they do implement something like that. If you kill the charon and take the loot that will then make you suspect as well. since now you also have stolen loot in the cargo hold. Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships. I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.
There is no good.
There is no bad.
There are only decisions and consequences.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23450
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Posted - 2015.02.26 04:51:15 -
[9] - Quote
Elana Apgar wrote:I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.
Seems like a lot of activity went down before you shot the looters. If all you're doing is shooting, you should be able to intercept the clunky Ship 1 -> Ship 2 -> Ship 3 transfer a bit faster..
Also, why not suicide them? It's an ISK war too, isn't it?
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc
355
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Posted - 2015.02.26 09:05:07 -
[10] - Quote
I have a light bulb out on my thorax, should I be suspect for this? |
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Brawlers Inc.
1468
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Posted - 2015.02.26 11:14:25 -
[11] - Quote
Since I'm done with my little ag stint, I'll share a secret. Anyone can do this. In fact it can be quite funny watching all the bumpers trying to keep t1 industrials and dst's away from the wreck. You want to hit CODE.'s margins? Get their loot. It is hands down the least efficient part of their freigther ganking process, and currently super easy to interfere with. If you can find one of their fleets up its not hard for a small group to make a bill or so off of their wrecks. Add some thrashers to pop anything you can't steal and you can actually impact the bottom line.
Of course the afore mentioned strategy actually requires intel and competent piloting so I wouldn't hold my breath on anyone doing it.
New Player Placement Specialist and Scope Project FC.
Contact me for a free consultation.
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1169
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Posted - 2015.02.26 15:26:57 -
[12] - Quote
I love watching the vultures creep close to the juicy freighter corpses when a CODE fleet is doing their thing.
The DST pilots tend to be the pro's, but there are enough greedy amatuers to feed mah passive locking Ishtar.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Lennox Dantes
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2015.02.27 00:49:50 -
[13] - Quote
There was nothing wrong with the original suspect timers from the old can-flipping days. Bring those back and you will fix high-sec. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
175
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Posted - 2015.02.27 01:48:03 -
[14] - Quote
If it so concerns you, get a thrasher and pop the wreck.
If you play by the rules of Hi Sec, expect to be inconvenienced by them from time to time.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
392
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Posted - 2015.02.27 06:41:05 -
[15] - Quote
Ideally any stolen loot would result in a suspect flag until the loot is docked up, which means the DST and the Charon should turn suspect if they are in possession of the loot. The suspect mechanic becomes rather irrelevant if you can sacrifice a cheap, tanked Nereus to transfer all the loot to a safe DST.
The question is whether this is possible to achieve or not without a major rewrite of the code.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
849
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Posted - 2015.02.27 13:21:28 -
[16] - Quote
So the AG dudes are once again too bad to play the game and demand changes from CCP. What a surprise.
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Renegade Heart
Micro N2
425
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Posted - 2015.02.27 13:30:06 -
[17] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:So the AG dudes are once again too bad to play the game and demand changes from CCP. What a surprise.
All of them? Lol |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2807
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Posted - 2015.02.27 13:42:14 -
[18] - Quote
This sounds like a really good idea. It's very realistic, as far as the crime/consequence relationship goes.
I'd be absolutely in favor of implementing this, as long as we also make summoning CONCORD for a crime in progress a manual action, just like calling the police is in real life.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11941
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Posted - 2015.02.27 13:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships.
I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.
Except for the part where you can shoot them regardless, since most of them are neg ten to begin with.
Once again I must question if you actually play this game.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Agent Unknown
Night Theifs DamnedNation
34
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Posted - 2015.02.27 14:03:27 -
[20] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:If it so concerns you, get a thrasher and pop the wreck.
If you play by the rules of Hi Sec, expect to be inconvenienced by them from time to time.
This. Suicide the wreck and deny the billions that lay within. |
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Kiryen O'Bannon
Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans
209
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:03:29 -
[21] - Quote
Sinc you're stealing the loot from the rats in the first place, I see no reason why other players shpuld be penalized for stealing it first. Ostensibly rats are pirates and bad, but capsuleers are essentially amoral and when you warp into a mission the rats are justsitting there not bothering anyone until you show up to kick their ass and take their loot. |
Paranoid Loyd
3979
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:14:48 -
[22] - Quote
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:Sinc you're stealing the loot from the rats in the first place, I see no reason why other players shpuld be penalized for stealing it first. Ostensibly rats are pirates and bad, but capsuleers are essentially amoral and when you warp into a mission the rats are justsitting there not bothering anyone until you show up to kick their ass and take their loot. No one is talking about stealing rat loot. They are talking about gank loot.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1437
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:36:31 -
[23] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:Sinc you're stealing the loot from the rats in the first place, I see no reason why other players shpuld be penalized for stealing it first. Ostensibly rats are pirates and bad, but capsuleers are essentially amoral and when you warp into a mission the rats are justsitting there not bothering anyone until you show up to kick their ass and take their loot. No one is talking about stealing rat loot. They are talking about gank loot. Well, some of the gank loot could have started out as rat loot. So, by that count, suicide gankers should* be getting standings buffs to the NPC pirate factions for liberating their stolen loot.
*should not, because that would be about as silly as the other obviously silly posts here.
My Many Misadventures
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I seek to create content, not become content.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
849
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Posted - 2015.02.27 18:06:01 -
[24] - Quote
Renegade Heart wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:So the AG dudes are once again too bad to play the game and demand changes from CCP. What a surprise. All of them? Lol Yes
They also look the same, all of them
the Code ALWAYS wins
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2434
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Posted - 2015.02.28 00:37:56 -
[25] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships.
I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.
Except for the part where you can shoot them regardless, since most of them are neg ten to begin with. Once again I must question if you actually play this game.
Emphasis on "gank-enabling". He's saying gank the bumping machariels, which would work if whinebears had less whine and more fortitude.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2015.02.28 01:56:28 -
[26] - Quote
admiral root wrote:
Emphasis on "gank-enabling". He's saying gank the bumping machariels, which would work if whinebears had less whine and more fortitude.
You know a powerful player who did not need ego reinforcement would not notice whether anyone was whining because of his ganking |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23175
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Posted - 2015.02.28 02:36:15 -
[27] - Quote
Drez Arthie wrote:admiral root wrote:
Emphasis on "gank-enabling". He's saying gank the bumping machariels, which would work if whinebears had less whine and more fortitude.
You know a powerful player who did not need ego reinforcement would not notice whether anyone was whining because of his ganking Given the sheer amount of whining that occurs because of ganking, the only people that don't notice it are those that either don't use the forums or don't play Eve.
The consensual/non consensual PvP argument isn't unique to Eve, the insidious carebear menace is present in many games that allow PvP; the GTA forums are an amusing read, especially in relation to online mode....
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11943
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Posted - 2015.02.28 02:38:47 -
[28] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships.
I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.
Except for the part where you can shoot them regardless, since most of them are neg ten to begin with. Once again I must question if you actually play this game. Emphasis on "gank-enabling". He's saying gank the bumping machariels, which would work if whinebears had less whine and more fortitude.
Why would you gank the Machariels instead of just using a web alt?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
109
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Posted - 2015.02.28 06:20:42 -
[29] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships.
I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.
Except for the part where you can shoot them regardless, since most of them are neg ten to begin with. Once again I must question if you actually play this game. I wasn't aware the bumping machariels and loot scooping haulers were -10. I think you misunderstood my comment. I'm fully aware that I can freely blap empty pods and disposable catalysts.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23515
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:46:27 -
[30] - Quote
I don't think he was saying that Xeno. Loot scoopers likely aren't -10, but you shouldn't be shooting scoopers anyway, just the wrecks. And I'm sure you know that the first loot scooper gets suspect for scooping so you should be shooting/scramming that fellow without penalty.
As for Machs.. well that's just the price of having fun, and bumping Machs are made of paper.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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