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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15273
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Posted - 2015.02.27 15:28:08 -
[91] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Or just remove Sentry Drones from the Ishtar and instead give it a "MJD Drone Launcher" that allows the Ishtar to MJD heavy drones onto a target. Give the MJD Drone Launcher a one minute cooldown and/or reduce the Ishtar's bay size to prevent heavy drones from being treated as "ammo."
A ******* drone cannon and you don't ask for the ability for it to fire corpses.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
485
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Posted - 2015.02.27 15:32:22 -
[92] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:i would also consider a stronger drawback for droneboats not needing highs for dps so maybe -2 slots instead of the current -1,
BUT this needs too be applied too gurista ships aswell , they are so OP atm, 2 uber drones also can't be justified, the gila and rattlesnake do obscene amount of damage they need nerfing.
The solution to guristas ships is to web/TD/ecm one of the drones or if you're veing kited by the mothership scram the drone and use AB to keep it outside 6km (well outside optimal).
Not every day you can cut 30% of another ships dps out that easily. Against a conventional drone boat you will have bigger problems.
Compounded even more if the mothership uses fw drones as those have literally double the base hp of t2 drones meaning that a gila has 10 effective drones worth of hp on the field.
And that's kind of one way to deal with gurista ships.
Faction warfare pilot and solo/small gang PVP advocate
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1605
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Posted - 2015.02.27 15:41:53 -
[93] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Or just remove Sentry Drones from the Ishtar and instead give it a "MJD Drone Launcher" that allows the Ishtar to MJD heavy drones onto a target. Give the MJD Drone Launcher a one minute cooldown and/or reduce the Ishtar's bay size to prevent heavy drones from being treated as "ammo."
A ******* drone cannon and you don't ask for the ability for it to fire corpses.
One problem at a time my good man. |
Ben Ishikela
17
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Posted - 2015.02.27 15:47:13 -
[94] - Quote
Here is another suggestion that would work but is more work xD
No more nerfing of percieved Overpowered Content!
It makes a game boring after too many iterations. Instead add new modules or ships that can use tactics and strategies to fight the current Meta.
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2736
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Posted - 2015.02.27 15:49:33 -
[95] - Quote
Ben Ishikela wrote:Here is another suggestion that would work but is more work xD The more i think about it, the more i too like the reduction of heavy drone bandwidth needs and size, along with ship bandwidth adjustments. |
Ponder Stuff
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
26
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Posted - 2015.02.27 15:49:53 -
[96] - Quote
I think ishtars became the ship of choice for simpletons and blobs for two reasons, firstly i assume pressing F is easier than F1, its slightly closer to the user so even less effort with much less information on the key for those tiny goonswarm brains. Secondly they have way to much control range and can often just be untouchable applying close range dps at 120km+.
Nerf the hell out of it, in this instance the nerf bat is not effective enough so go get a nerf club and beat the snot out of it.
I do like the idea of heavy drone bonuses so at least the drones are at risk even if the control range has to stay at 2 million au.
Glad Rise is on this not Fozzie, we stand a chance of getting a reasonable result and not unmitigated idiocy.
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Soldarius
Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent
1142
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:01:30 -
[97] - Quote
Imagine if you could fit 5 425mm Railgun IIs on an Eagle with 3x MFS IIs and no tracking mods. Now give it +25% optimal range, +25% tracking, and +50% damage at Caldari Cruiser 5 and HAC 5. This would give you 380*1.5=570 dps, with a 45+30km optimal+falloff (using CN Antimatter) and .01625 rad/s tracking. With Spike, it would have 330dps at 162+30km optimal+falloff and .00375 rad/s tracking. Does that sound balanced on a medium ship?
In comparison, the Ishtar has 702 dps at 37.5+18km with .045 rad/s tracking using Garde IIs. It gets 620 dps at 65.6+48km with .024 Rad/s tracking using Bouncers.
250mm Railgun II on an Eagle with CN Antimatter loaded and no tracking mods have .026 rad/s tracking.
With the proposed change, the damage output of Garde IIs will be 585 dps, and the dps of Bouncers will be 516dps.
Ishtars will still have above average HAC dps and superior tracking at excellent range, all on a highly mobile platform. So I can only conclude that these changes will not really change anything. Ishtars and Tengus will still be the meta until the actual problems are addressed; in this case, Sentry Drones having excellent tracking at battleship engagement ranges when fielded by an Ishtar.
I think it might be better to simply differentiate sentry drone tracking more. By spreading out the variance in tracking across the sentry drone line, a pilto would have give up that awesome range to get the better tracking. Right now and after the proposed change, Ishtars simply have better tracking at all ranges than any ship that can fit a comparable weapon system.
I'm even going to go out on a limb and say that the current meta is worse than the Drake meta ever was. Every single one of the current FotM comps has better damage and application than HML Drakes did, all but one of them has a better tank, they all have better velocity, and all of them have a much lower sigRad.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
9094
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:02:55 -
[98] - Quote
Asi and im sure many others have posted. The problem is the ishtars mobility, its great that it has a sig rad reduction, but when it does 2700ms orbit who cares! That combined with its 130km range is uttery ridiculous
Pls nerf mobility of ishtar.. |
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
4086
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:03:41 -
[99] - Quote
Why not just leave the drone bonus on the Ishtar as is and reduce the bandwidth to 100 Mbit?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Alexandrea Palmtomo
Fellowship Of Lost Souls Rebel Alliance of New Eden
0
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:08:21 -
[100] - Quote
These changes without you also fixing bombs/bombers and doing something about how the warp speed changes made using battleships and battlecruisers terrible won't do anything to change the game from the current ishtars/tengus meta. Everyone is sick of flying these ships if you would just make the changes needed to make other doctrines viable things would become more diverse. |
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Bolur Freir
Rubella Solaris Test Alliance Please Ignore
15
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:21:12 -
[101] - Quote
The issue with Ishtars isn't the pure DPS they can do, though that is probably a bit high for a cruiser hull, it's the application of that DPS. Reducing or replacing the 5% bonus to sentry optimal and tracking would do more to bring the Ishtar into the same scale as the other HACs than a straight DPS nerf. |
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:28:04 -
[102] - Quote
Require that Ishtars be in bastion to deploy sentries, but do not release a bastion module for Ishtars. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2736
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:40:51 -
[103] - Quote
While i like the idea(s) of removing sentry drones form the Ishtar, and/or having heavy drone use 20Mbps and 20m3 size then reducing the Ishtar to 100Mbps bandwidth. It creates an interesting problem of what to do with the Heavy Assault Cruiser Skill, we have; +5KM drone control range and +5% Sentry Drone Optimal and Tracking
The +5KM drone control range affects all drones it is kinda useless for mobile combat drones as very few would send there combat drones out 85KM, it is just a death sentence for them.
Edit: Also, please make it an armor ship like all other Gallente ships. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1099
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:49:43 -
[104] - Quote
removing a midslot might be a good idea too nerf the dps kitey shield configs and perhaps some shield HP removed aswell
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone/fighter assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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Metal Icarus
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
732
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:59:03 -
[105] - Quote
Remove the battleship class weaponry from the tech 2 cruiser.
Give bonuses to medium weaponry.
Because no other tech 2 cruiser can field battleship class weaponry.
If you want battleship class weapons on ship that is smaller than a battleship, put them on a battlecruiser, like the talos. Where the trade-off for battleship weaponry is tank.
The ishtar makes no concessions, and thus is chosen for errything which lead to the LOL-Ishtard graph.
Adjusting the numbers will NOT fix the problem and may run into the problem of over-nerfing. |
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
352
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Posted - 2015.02.27 17:08:11 -
[106] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
New bonus: Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Light, Medium and Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage 5% bonus to Sentry Drone hitpoints and damage
Just scrap the second bonus and put in something else like 5% Drone speed. Sentrys still possible, but unbonused. |
Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
304
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Posted - 2015.02.27 17:20:26 -
[107] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:Remove the battleship class weaponry from the tech 2 cruiser.
Give bonuses to medium weaponry.
Because no other tech 2 cruiser can field battleship class weaponry.
If you want battleship class weapons on ship that is smaller than a battleship, put them on a battlecruiser, like the talos. Where the trade-off for battleship weaponry is tank.
The ishtar makes no concessions, and thus is chosen for errything which lead to the LOL-Ishtard graph.
Adjusting the numbers will NOT fix the problem and may run into the problem of over-nerfing.
I don't really understand where this misinformation that heavy/sentry drones are "battleship" class weapons comes from. Last time I checked battleships with drone bonuses can also equip large guns/launchers where the Ishtar cannot. The only thing needed to deploy a heavy/sentry drone is 25m drone bandwidth and a 25m3 drone bay. |
Metal Icarus
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
732
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Posted - 2015.02.27 17:28:40 -
[108] - Quote
Andrea Keuvo wrote:Metal Icarus wrote:Remove the battleship class weaponry from the tech 2 cruiser.
Give bonuses to medium weaponry.
Because no other tech 2 cruiser can field battleship class weaponry.
If you want battleship class weapons on ship that is smaller than a battleship, put them on a battlecruiser, like the talos. Where the trade-off for battleship weaponry is tank.
The ishtar makes no concessions, and thus is chosen for errything which lead to the LOL-Ishtard graph.
Adjusting the numbers will NOT fix the problem and may run into the problem of over-nerfing. I don't really understand where this misinformation that heavy/sentry drones are "battleship" class weapons comes from. Last time I checked battleships with drone bonuses can also equip large guns/launchers where the Ishtar cannot. The only thing needed to deploy a heavy/sentry drone is 25m drone bandwidth and a 25m3 drone bay.
You're right, and also I forgot about the stratios. Still, more concessions need to be made. Damage bonus reduction to sentries is not enough IMO. |
Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
9
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Posted - 2015.02.27 17:35:28 -
[109] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Require that Ishtars be in bastion to deploy sentries, but do not release a bastion module for Ishtars.
This would work and make sense actually.
Sentries are a stationary weapon-system, and so should be the ship deploying them.
But we don't even need to go that far and make the Ishtar immobile, it would be enough allready to make the use of propulsion modules impossible aslong as you've got sentries deployed. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1099
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Posted - 2015.02.27 17:39:01 -
[110] - Quote
Rovinia wrote:CCP Rise wrote:
New bonus: Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Light, Medium and Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage 5% bonus to Sentry Drone hitpoints and damage
Just scrap the second bonus and put in something else like 5% Drone speed. Sentrys still possible, but unbonused.
doing that just makes it a worse gila or a more expensive VNI, it needs the sentries otherwise people won't use it. its more the ability too replace high HP sentries over and over in high dps kitey shield fits, if you address these points they might have more success, and -2 slots for all droneboats would help give stronger drawbacks too not needing highs for dps, would also like too see race specific bonuses too drones, so ishtar gets gallente drone bonuses only, forcing gardes would certainly reduce their range.
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone/fighter assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1099
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Posted - 2015.02.27 17:40:37 -
[111] - Quote
Grytok wrote:beakerax wrote:Require that Ishtars be in bastion to deploy sentries, but do not release a bastion module for Ishtars. This would work and make sense actually. Sentries are a stationary weapon-system, and so should be the ship deploying them. But we don't even need to go that far and make the Ishtar immobile, it would be enough allready to make the use of propulsion modules impossible aslong as you've got sentries deployed. But I'd still remove the Drone Damage Amps in addition, as they're the real problem imho, not just for the Ishtar, but for other drone-ships aswell. Drone Damage Amps make drones way too powerful.
remove drone damage amps would put droneboats back where they were before that , which is mostly unused
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone/fighter assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
9
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Posted - 2015.02.27 17:48:32 -
[112] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Grytok wrote:beakerax wrote:Require that Ishtars be in bastion to deploy sentries, but do not release a bastion module for Ishtars. This would work and make sense actually. Sentries are a stationary weapon-system, and so should be the ship deploying them. But we don't even need to go that far and make the Ishtar immobile, it would be enough allready to make the use of propulsion modules impossible aslong as you've got sentries deployed. But I'd still remove the Drone Damage Amps in addition, as they're the real problem imho, not just for the Ishtar, but for other drone-ships aswell. Drone Damage Amps make drones way too powerful. remove drone damage amps would put droneboats back where they were before that , which is mostly unused
I used Ishtars for aslong as I could fly them, long before there was any drone modules and rigs available for them. The same applies to the Dominix and the Ishkur.
Actually I've never flown anything else than droneboats for PvE, including doing all my LvL 4 missionrunning in an Ishtar since I can fly it.
Drone Damage Amps aren't needed to make droneboats effective. All they do is make them overpowered. |
colera deldios
296
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Posted - 2015.02.27 18:05:48 -
[113] - Quote
I hope everyone has a good weekend. Except your CCP Rise. |
Catherine Laartii
Imperium Technologies Evictus.
483
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Posted - 2015.02.27 18:09:03 -
[114] - Quote
The bottom line with sentries is that they need to do less dps than heavy drones. Sentries are by their nature a RANGED weapon system, so in accordance with how virtually every other weapon system in the game is balanced, they should do less dps than their 'close-range' counterpart, which are the slow and lumbering heavies.
The argument for this however tends to be shoved aside since people point to the garde as a 'close-range' weapon. Please. They're all in the same class, and compared to how far normal drones like mediums or heavy attack drones shoot out, they're significantly longer. A decent route to go from a balance standpoint would be to simply decrease their RoF to so the paper dps ends up being a good bit less than heavy attack drones. |
colera deldios
296
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Posted - 2015.02.27 18:14:14 -
[115] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:The bottom line with sentries is that they need to do less dps than heavy drones. Sentries are by their nature a RANGED weapon system, so in accordance with how virtually every other weapon system in the game is balanced, they should do less dps than their 'close-range' counterpart, which are the slow and lumbering heavies.
The argument for this however tends to be shoved aside since people point to the garde as a 'close-range' weapon. Please. They're all in the same class, and compared to how far normal drones like mediums or heavy attack drones shoot out, they're significantly longer. A decent route to go from a balance standpoint would be to simply decrease their RoF to so the paper dps ends up being a good bit less than heavy attack drones.
Did you just start playing today ? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1100
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Posted - 2015.02.27 18:16:54 -
[116] - Quote
not a bad idea too reduce sentry drone RoF, easier on the server aswell as making them more alpha less dps based and would make them less powerful. so long as no extra damage is added ofc.
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone/fighter assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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Catherine Laartii
Imperium Technologies Evictus.
483
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Posted - 2015.02.27 18:22:30 -
[117] - Quote
colera deldios wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:The bottom line with sentries is that they need to do less dps than heavy drones. Sentries are by their nature a RANGED weapon system, so in accordance with how virtually every other weapon system in the game is balanced, they should do less dps than their 'close-range' counterpart, which are the slow and lumbering heavies.
The argument for this however tends to be shoved aside since people point to the garde as a 'close-range' weapon. Please. They're all in the same class, and compared to how far normal drones like mediums or heavy attack drones shoot out, they're significantly longer. A decent route to go from a balance standpoint would be to simply decrease their RoF to so the paper dps ends up being a good bit less than heavy attack drones. Did you just start playing today ? Cute.
They need to do a lot less dps; arty works well because it has a high alpha but low overall dps. I think a lot of people would be happier to a sentry nerf that increased their alpha but lowered their paper dps.
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Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria Yulai Federation
39
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Posted - 2015.02.27 18:26:22 -
[118] - Quote
with the new 12 sec bomb the shi-ishtar are almost immune to bomb run, we did several time in fight and the speed of this ship is too high to allow a 12 sec bomb wing to explode.
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Nienna Leralonde
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.02.27 19:19:01 -
[119] - Quote
"The Ishtar has proven strong enough with its current bonus...."
no sir,it only proves numbers are stronger.drake/heavy missiles nerf,never forget,never forgive. |
Rusty Boon
xX-Crusader-Xx Tactical Narcotics Team
0
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Posted - 2015.02.27 19:25:34 -
[120] - Quote
Damjan Fox wrote:Quote:Would rather have seen the ishtar lose the sentries entirely. Was about to post the same. The damage is not the problem, but the damage projection over crazy ranges. Removing the sentry bonus entirely, would be my suggestion, too. (And mabye descrease the fitting capabilites a little)
Agreed with fully, the ability for a cruiser sized hull to be able to run sentries is ridiculous. Sentries, as well as Heavies, were meant for Battleships originally. |
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