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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1994
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Posted - 2015.03.05 09:47:27 -
[241] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:How to fix Ishtars: Give them a natural counter. Right now they out range literally anything that isn't shooting directly into their T2 resists, which is the major problem.
Ishtars are naturally weak to lasers but there is no medium laser platform that has the range to hit them and the laser battleships aren't viable due to Tachyons taking too much fitting.
Give the zealot a second optimal bonus instead of the cap bonus or even the damage bonus, and you've got a great counter. Rails can get double optimal bonuses, why not lasers?
Just buffing battleships fittings in general would also achieve that. Make arti boats and apocs be able to fit the large gusn more easily while still fielding a tank and suddenly ishtars take heavy losses on the fight.
But still.. the ishtar outclassed ALL other hacs and it needed a serious nerf.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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GREYBOBSASS
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2015.03.05 12:14:27 -
[242] - Quote
current state of ishtars is pretty much summed upo in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzAdx8tWhvY |
Spugg Galdon
Aliastra Gallente Federation
624
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Posted - 2015.03.05 15:25:55 -
[243] - Quote
Would it be terrible if the Ishtar and the Eos swapped bonuses?
I mean, look at the two. The Eos would be great (but not OP due to lack of mids) and the Ishtar would receive the nerf it deserves.
Ishtar:
Gallente cruiser skill bonus per level:
10% bonus to drone hitpoint and damage 7.5% bonus to hybrid turret tracking speed
HAC skill bonus per level:
7.5% bonus to Heavy drone tracking 7.5% bonus to Heavy drone max velocity
Eos:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonus per level:
10% bonus to drone hitpoint and damage 7.5% bonus to armour repairer amount
Command ship skill bonus per level:
7.5% bonus to Drone optimal range and Tracking 5km bonus to drone control range
Would this be terrible or would it not simply fix the Ishtar problem but give all the PvE'rs and others the Ishtar capability in a heavier, slower package that favours armour over speed?
The VNI can also stay as is as it's not as bonkers as the Ishtar and this would also differentiate it fully from the Ishtar instead of just being a crappy, baby Ishtar |
Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2015.03.05 17:08:51 -
[244] - Quote
This would certainly solve the Big-Fleet-PVP problem. It would make it crap in pve too though (heavy drones get killed too fast / really bad tank for the now exclusive melee ishtar) |
Khan Wrenth
Hedion University Amarr Empire
116
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Posted - 2015.03.06 09:55:21 -
[245] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Would it be terrible if the Ishtar and the Eos swapped bonuses?
I mean, look at the two. The Eos would be great (but not OP due to lack of mids) and the Ishtar would receive the nerf it deserves.
Ishtar:
Gallente cruiser skill bonus per level:
10% bonus to drone hitpoint and damage 7.5% bonus to hybrid turret tracking speed
HAC skill bonus per level:
7.5% bonus to Heavy drone tracking 7.5% bonus to Heavy drone max velocity
Eos:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonus per level:
10% bonus to drone hitpoint and damage 7.5% bonus to armour repairer amount
Command ship skill bonus per level:
7.5% bonus to Drone optimal range and Tracking 5km bonus to drone control range
Would this be terrible or would it not simply fix the Ishtar problem but give all the PvE'rs and others the Ishtar capability in a heavier, slower package that favours armour over speed?
The VNI can also stay as is as it's not as bonkers as the Ishtar and this would also differentiate it fully from the Ishtar instead of just being a crappy, baby Ishtar
This seems rather reasonable. As someone in...either this thread or another thread I have lost track because there's been so many of these over the years...anyway as someone said once, the EOS could potentially replace Ishtars for the spamming of sentry drones. But Battlecruisers, and especially command battlecruisers which require charisma, take a lot longer to train. So people are less likely to train for them en masse. Will some? Absolutely. But the EOS has a lot less mobility, making the use of it a lot more balanced than an Ishtar.
However, this still doesn't solve a fundamental problem:
Sentry drones still don't belong in the game. They have all of the advantages of drones, with almost none of the drawbacks. Their innate nature unbalances power dynamics within classes. As I've said previously, that an ishtar can put out a flight of kinetic drones, or EM drones, negates the entirety of two other sniper HACs.
Sentry drones have pure damage selection, long range, no ammo, no cap, (mostly) immune from EWAR (you'd have to ewar all 5 at once to actually have the same effect as EWAR-ing a single turret ship), aggression independent of being able to lock, instant damage application, up to 50 can be assigned to a single trigger ship...they're better than turrets or missiles in dang near every way. Their drawbacks are highly limited and mostly mitigated through good piloting and fleet tactics.
Everything that balances drones, missiles, and turrets goes out the window with sentries. They will, by their very nature, NEVER be balanced in this game. They can't be because they provide most or all of the best parts of both turrets and missiles at the same time.
As a person who, yes, has invested in Ishtars and sentries, both in isk and in training, I don't have a doubt in my mind that this game would be better off without sentries. I want them gone. Even if, and especially because, it'll hurt my PvE and PvP abilities, which with sentries, are far too one-sided. Everything is just so easy with sentries.
For clarity, I should say yes, I'm aware sentries and ishtars are fully beatable. I've never said they were invincible. Just that they offer far too many advantages without the sorts of drawbacks that keep other weapon systems balanced.
HTFU.-á Adapt or die.-á Beware the falcon punch.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1103
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Posted - 2015.03.06 13:22:17 -
[246] - Quote
Rise you still haven't confirmed whether this 5% sentry dps/HP is applied too all sub battleships or not?
e.g. the VNI could out dps the ishtar if you don't
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone/fighter assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
834
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Posted - 2015.03.06 13:27:47 -
[247] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Everything that balances drones, missiles, and turrets goes out the window with sentries. They will, by their very nature, NEVER be balanced in this game. They can't be because they provide most or all of the best parts of both turrets and missiles at the same time.
Actually, non application bonused sentries are about right. Certainly balancable.
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Khan Wrenth
Hedion University Amarr Empire
116
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Posted - 2015.03.06 16:05:52 -
[248] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Actually, non application bonused sentries are about right. Certainly balancable.
Hmm, an interesting idea. To take it a step further (I don't think this is quite where you wanted to go with this, but bear with me), what about exempting sentry drones from all bonuses, module and hull alike? (skill bonuses still apply) There are weapon systems in this game that are never granted bonuses, because "they are perfect where they are, they are not in need of bonused hulls or modules to make them work right", i.e. smartbombs.
If we remove all module and hull bonuses, we end up with sentry drones that have some real compromises. Currently, a basic fit Ishtar out DPS's anything an Eagle fit can do (this is before the Railgun nerf, go figure) at any meaningful range, and where the Eagle out-ranges an Ishtar, it becomes little more than a tickle. Hence, sentries making other HACs obsolete. BUT! Given the immense advantages sentry drones have, if we remove any hull or module bonuses from effecting them, they become much easier to balance as units, and then their DPS and tracking come down to a level where you can make serious considerations if you want to field Eagles or Ishtars.
As units that have serious EWAR, range, cap, damage selectability, and ammo advantages over guns, it would only make sense that they would have less DPS and application. We would have to then do *slight* buffs to the base stats (in range and tracking) of some of the sentries because some of them don't have the range or tracking to be usable just on their stats alone. And the other sentry drones might need some nerfs to help flatten out the curve a bit. But it could work...dare I say it could work really well, in fact.
HTFU.-á Adapt or die.-á Beware the falcon punch.
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Skir Skor
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
15
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Posted - 2015.03.08 04:57:06 -
[249] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
This change is being made to encourage diversity in ship choice across EVE.
At the moment BC/BS are in a pretty bad spot, which is a real shame. Nobody is going to change from an Ishtar to a Mym/Domi with this pass, I can't see how you expect more diversity when the only change is a reduction to sentry drone dps. |
Lone Hitman
The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement
2
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Posted - 2015.03.08 06:56:59 -
[250] - Quote
How about if there were multiple sizes of Sentry Drones (like there are for combat drones) and their base damage and tracking is adjusted to a level consistent with their size. Then Ishtars should only get bonuses for the medium ones... and it might be able to stay at +10% damage per HAC level as long as the medium sentries' base DPS is considerably worse than heavy combat drones. |
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Asa Shahni
Doughboys Snuffed Out
57
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Posted - 2015.03.08 11:58:50 -
[251] - Quote
1- remove 5% tracking bonus to sentry and replace it by 5% damage bonus so it become 5% to optimal and damage 2- change the 10% damage bonus so it only affect heavy, light and medium drones 3- remove a mid and add a low (let's be honest you guys cling to that 5mid bull **** and avoid talking about it even if its one of the most OP thing on this ship) 4- remove control range bonus and add 4% armor bonus
Problem solved you have a normal hac with the role it should have since the first change not that stupid kiting 5 mid monster you gave us for no damn reason. |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
74
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Posted - 2015.03.08 23:03:28 -
[252] - Quote
- sentry bonus, as it was proposed many times before
as of now it's stupiditly way to solid combination but i personally think that it's really high-end of gallente military scince and CreDrone technoligies. Which is simply means Gal's are the kings of the hill. Too bad such an amazing piece of combat art has to be inhume. |
TerminalSamurai Sunji
the explosive bureau
10
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Posted - 2015.03.10 17:04:03 -
[253] - Quote
I'm sure this has been stated, didn't take the time to read the whole thread. One of the most blatant things that I see in respect to the Ishtar compared to the other HACs is the fact that the Ishtar has way too many bonuses. Forget about the fittings for a minute.
Compare the Ishtar to the Deimos: Ishtar: Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage 7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity and [/b ]tracking speed
Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level): 5000m bonus to Drone operation range 5% bonus to Sentry Drone optimal range [b]and tracking speed
Deimos: Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer amount
Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff
Muninn Minmatar Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level): 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret optimal range 7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret tracking speed
Looking at HAC's on a whole, most have 4 bonuses (Not counting the role bonus), others have 3 (such as the Deimos), the Ishtar has a blatant 5, which could be argued higher in some cases.
When you directly compare the Ishtar hull to all other HAC hulls (Without looking at bonuses) On paper it is a sub par ship. The only logical thing to point to are the hull bonuses. Given the bonuses of the hull currently, there is little reason to fit more than 2 omni tracking, and I can't say I've seen any reason to fit a drone link augmenter, which is the reason why it's so open for utility/survivability fits.
One should not be able to maximize dps from a hull without sacrificing other aspects of it. |
Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
51
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Posted - 2015.03.10 20:45:09 -
[254] - Quote
Rise, instead of this, just remove sentry bonus completely from Ishtar. Bump up light/med/heavy dmg to 12.5 per level. |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
122
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Posted - 2015.03.11 19:17:38 -
[255] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Would it be terrible if the Ishtar and the Eos swapped bonuses?
I mean, look at the two. The Eos would be great (but not OP due to lack of mids) and the Ishtar would receive the nerf it deserves.
Ishtar:
Gallente cruiser skill bonus per level:
10% bonus to drone hitpoint and damage 7.5% bonus to hybrid turret tracking speed
HAC skill bonus per level:
7.5% bonus to Heavy drone tracking 7.5% bonus to Heavy drone max velocity
Eos:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonus per level:
10% bonus to drone hitpoint and damage 7.5% bonus to armour repairer amount
Command ship skill bonus per level:
7.5% bonus to Drone optimal range and Tracking 5km bonus to drone control range
Would this be terrible or would it not simply fix the Ishtar problem but give all the PvE'rs and others the Ishtar capability in a heavier, slower package that favours armour over speed?
The VNI can also stay as is as it's not as bonkers as the Ishtar and this would also differentiate it fully from the Ishtar instead of just being a crappy, baby Ishtar
A very sexy suggestion.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:22:28 -
[256] - Quote
Not really, no. It would make another brawler of the ishtar. One with a bad hull for it ( compared with the deimos). Slow, not enough CPU and power to even fill all slots. AND it kills its role as a drone only ship. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1105
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:18:03 -
[257] - Quote
Aplysia Vejun wrote:Not really, no. It would make another brawler of the ishtar. One with a bad hull for it ( compared with the deimos). Slow, not enough CPU and power to even fill all slots. AND it kills its role as a drone only ship.
ishtar as a brawler is just a bad idea, the gila would trump it every time comfortably.
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic, nerf sentries.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
135
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Posted - 2015.03.12 11:15:25 -
[258] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Too much? Too little? Let us know. It has been discussed numerous times, and I thought consensus was found. Sentry drones are the problem. Hulls only emphasize it. If hulls are not viable (like battlecruisers, for example), they will still be pretty much useless with or without sentry drones. But when you put them on a viable hull (like HAC is this case, or a carrier) - it becomes really OP.
So, lets reconsider the sentries. They have serious advantages over other weapon systems: - instant damage (no delay like missiles and normal drones); - very good DPS; - insane range and tracking; - dont use cap or charges; - dont explicitly use fitting slots and PG/CPU. To counterweight, they have a ~huge~ disadvantage, lets say it aloud: - drones can be destroyed.
That balance could work - in theory - but in practice it doesnt. With full skills, your sentry drone sports up to 8k EHP. Ishtar can fit 3 packs, so it's total of 120k EHP in drones! Double as much as the Ishtar itself. And at 1/10th of it's price. Furthermore, it can resupply drones from cargo bay, from POS or station... So shooting drones one-by-one is a really stupid idea. Smartbombs dont work, their area of effect is too small.
The only real counter is stealth bombers. But 1) Many advocate that SBs are OP. True or not - but SBs are a counter for many formats, sentry or not. 2) You cannot have a luxury of support fleet in small to medium warfare. 3) If you field SBs, enemy Ishtars can field anti-bomber support (dictors mainly). You risk to welp the SB squad, Ishars risk to lose drones. Can you call it a fair tradeoff? 4) Lowsec.
Now, CCP Rise, could you answer if my speculations are valid, and if not - why? |
Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
627
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Posted - 2015.03.12 13:18:37 -
[259] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Aplysia Vejun wrote:Not really, no. It would make another brawler of the ishtar. One with a bad hull for it ( compared with the deimos). Slow, not enough CPU and power to even fill all slots. AND it kills its role as a drone only ship. ishtar as a brawler is just a bad idea, the gila would trump it every time comfortably.
This is nonsensical rubbish. The Ishtar is actually a good brawler.
It can be dual rep fit
It can be 1600mm plate fit
It can be shield gank fit
Even if it traded it's bonuses with the Eos it wouldn't lose it's ability to field 5 damgage bonused sentries. It would simply lose the projection and application. This is what the Ishtar needs. It needs to get it's legs cut out from under it but give it some arms to punch with
Currently, I turn to the Ishtar for just about everything except hacking and mining. It's so good at everything it's bonkers |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1106
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Posted - 2015.03.12 13:33:26 -
[260] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Harvey James wrote:Aplysia Vejun wrote:Not really, no. It would make another brawler of the ishtar. One with a bad hull for it ( compared with the deimos). Slow, not enough CPU and power to even fill all slots. AND it kills its role as a drone only ship. ishtar as a brawler is just a bad idea, the gila would trump it every time comfortably. This is nonsensical rubbish. The Ishtar is actually a good brawler. It can be dual rep fit It can be 1600mm plate fit It can be shield gank fit Even if it traded it's bonuses with the Eos it wouldn't lose it's ability to field 5 damgage bonused sentries. It would simply lose the projection and application. This is what the Ishtar needs. It needs to get it's legs cut out from under it but give it some arms to punch with Currently, I turn to the Ishtar for just about everything except hacking and mining. It's so good at everything it's bonkers
i didn't say it can't be a good brawler, just that it would lose its greatest asset too be a second best droneship instead, so actually no its quite sensible comment.
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic, nerf sentries.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
627
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Posted - 2015.03.12 16:51:22 -
[261] - Quote
The Gila and Ishtar would be more or less on the same level. The Gila wouldn't be supreme. They would just be different. The Ishtar would actually probably still be better as it can field sentries and the Gila can't |
Mehrune Khan
Viziam Amarr Empire
29
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Posted - 2015.03.12 17:17:50 -
[262] - Quote
This was a suggestion in another thread that I liked.
Make heavy drones 20m3 and 20 bandwidth Reduce Ishtar and Vexor Navy Issue bandwidth to 100
This removes the ability of cruiser-sized drone boats to use 5 sentries, and also gives other boats with 100 bandwidth the ability to fly 5 heavies - like the Myrmidon which is IMO a good thing. There's no reason for a smaller more agile ship like the Vexor Navy Issue to have a larger bandwidth than a battlecruiser. Minmatar ships that have odd drone bandwidth like the Scythe (45) would be able to use an extra heavy drone, but I'm not convinced that would be such a bad thing. It seems everyone hates the sentries more than the heavies, so keeping 5 sentries a battlecruiser or larger thing might be a good idea. |
Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
627
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Posted - 2015.03.13 08:01:34 -
[263] - Quote
Mehrune Khan wrote:This was a suggestion in another thread that I liked.
Make heavy drones 20m3 and 20 bandwidth Reduce Ishtar and Vexor Navy Issue bandwidth to 100
This removes the ability of cruiser-sized drone boats to use 5 sentries, and also gives other boats with 100 bandwidth the ability to fly 5 heavies - like the Myrmidon which is IMO a good thing. There's no reason for a smaller more agile ship like the Vexor Navy Issue to have a larger bandwidth than a battlecruiser. Minmatar ships that have odd drone bandwidth like the Scythe (45) would be able to use an extra heavy drone, but I'm not convinced that would be such a bad thing. It seems everyone hates the sentries more than the heavies, so keeping 5 sentries a battlecruiser or larger thing might be a good idea.
This is essentially what they're doing by nerfing the damage bonus. It doesn't remove the fundamental problem with the Ishtar which is a combination of speed, tank, Ewar immunity, projection and application with superb damage. All that the nerf achieves is a reduction from superb damage to good damage. Fleets will simply just bring moar Ishtars to compensate.
The Ishtar needs to be redesigned. The suggestion that I made to swap it's role with the Eos makes more sense to me as the Eos doesn't have the mids to shield tank it and it doesn't have the mobility. It does have an MJD though, which would actually work with it. It gives the projection and application of the Ishtar while removing the mobility and welding it to a hull that favor's armour |
Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2015.03.13 08:20:55 -
[264] - Quote
If you want to make a brawler of it: give it the corresponding boni. Which means an armor res or armor repair bonus. Your proposed hybrid turret bonus is useless because it hasnt enough cpu and powergrid to support medium turrets. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
273
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Posted - 2015.03.13 09:20:40 -
[265] - Quote
Mehrune Khan wrote:This was a suggestion in another thread that I liked.
Make heavy drones 20m3 and 20 bandwidth Reduce Ishtar and Vexor Navy Issue bandwidth to 100
This removes the ability of cruiser-sized drone boats to use 5 sentries, and also gives other boats with 100 bandwidth the ability to fly 5 heavies - like the Myrmidon which is IMO a good thing. There's no reason for a smaller more agile ship like the Vexor Navy Issue to have a larger bandwidth than a battlecruiser. Minmatar ships that have odd drone bandwidth like the Scythe (45) would be able to use an extra heavy drone, but I'm not convinced that would be such a bad thing. It seems everyone hates the sentries more than the heavies, so keeping 5 sentries a battlecruiser or larger thing might be a good idea.
Stratios with 5 heavies is nuts, FYI. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
928
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Posted - 2015.03.13 09:43:31 -
[266] - Quote
And all the battleships with 100 bandwidth. |
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
65
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Posted - 2015.03.13 13:17:25 -
[267] - Quote
As everybody else is saying, damage is NOT the problem, application and range control IS. Sentry drones should not have an exdended controll range over 20km as they are stationary, i feel that stationary drones should force stationary controll range, this way drones will be more balanced.
2Okm is enough for align here, there and back again in situasions where a sentry drone should be used over a drone.. |
Soldarius
Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent
1175
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Posted - 2015.03.13 14:23:52 -
[268] - Quote
http://evenews24.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/zbg9Bbn-1024x702.png
Sentry drones are so well balanced.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
627
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Posted - 2015.03.13 16:00:22 -
[269] - Quote
Sentry drones are very broken and arty is way underpowered looking at that
@Aplysia Vejun - fitting an Ishtar with guns and without any CPU issues:
Quote: [Ishtar, Shield Ganker] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Overdrive Injector System II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Ogre II x5
Quote: [Ishtar, Dual Rep] Damage Control II Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized EM Membrane II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Ogre II x5
Quote: [Ishtar, 1600mm Plate] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized EM Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I 10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Medium Ancillary Current Router II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Gecko x2 Ogre II x1
That last one is even dual prop. Those are just simple fits not even stepping out of the box either.
Also, drones and hybrid (other weapons) bonuses aren't a bad mix. It's one of the only mixed bonuses that actually work. The fact that you're comparing it to a Gila just shows your incompetence. The Gila is a mixed weapon boat too!!
For reference. Ships with weapon and drone bonuses: Tristan Algos Vexor Navy Dominix Worm Gila Rattlesnake probably missed some too |
Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2015.03.13 17:59:20 -
[270] - Quote
Uh, what fail-fits. (the armor ones, cannot tell about the shield-one). Not even the most crucial thing installed: t2 cloak do you only roam in big groups??
edit: AND you need skills at V to use most of these fits |
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