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Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
87
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Posted - 2015.02.28 05:09:57 -
[1] - Quote
I think they are much too good. They should be restricted. Nothing can brawl them short of another t3. Only a ranged kiting frig with help can do it with the Svipul and Confessor. Soon the missile/rail t3's will come and nothing will work. Threy are the equivalent of a tanky Garmur or a Worm with a high rack weapon bonus in a Novice.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
489
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Posted - 2015.02.28 05:26:11 -
[2] - Quote
....?
How did this make it through testing?
Faction warfare pilot and solo/small gang PVP advocate
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Lugburz
Running with Dogs Nerfed Alliance Go Away
3
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:35:30 -
[3] - Quote
/me hides his daredevil |
Lugburz
Running with Dogs Nerfed Alliance Go Away
3
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:37:21 -
[4] - Quote
also.. have you tried td's? a lot of people are using svipul with 200mm's... |
Valkin Mordirc
661
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:39:54 -
[5] - Quote
Would it not make sense, for a Dessie, whose sole purpose, frigate killing, be able to kill a frigate? T1 Dessies can kill T1 Frigs, T2 Dessies can sometimes kill T2 Assault frigates.
A T3 Dessie, should have it's way with a AF in my opinion.
Unless you are just wanting them out the FW plex. Then yeaaaah, probably a good idea. Or just try Dessie lvl 5 and get a T3 Dessie of your own. =P
#DeleteTheWeak
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Lugburz
Running with Dogs Nerfed Alliance Go Away
3
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:45:43 -
[6] - Quote
think op is trolling, kb doesnt look like solo pvper |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
737
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Posted - 2015.02.28 08:12:50 -
[7] - Quote
-1 for the ignorance of the OP in not realizing that ship with 6+ guns will be OP vs T1 frig hulls as they deserved to get destroyed, more so when the fact that advanced ships can call the shots by improving armor, speed, and maneuverability at will. T3 destroyers as is are showing a trend of having 9 guns in damage assuming you are max skilled after all bonuses, so yes.....they will destroy your complex running frigates. Cannot see a reason to restrict them from complexes in FW, since they are basically a pirate ship when you think about it , CCP is probably trying to get you out from running your cheap ships and fly something that will actually affect the market while at the same time it will compete with the other guy who is flying another T3 destroyer .
Reason that T1 destroyers are the preferred ganker choice of weapon, applying damage quickly at low cost, and they where not really changed (still lol at the fact that barges get buffed but its next to useless as 2-3 destroyers still can do it if you have the ability to community and form partnerships)....the fact that it can increase it hitpoints and speed allowing it to run if need be escape...not an exploit, go run complexes in something other than fodder ships.
calling it: the ability to randomly change on the fly the next "exploit" when someone starts to whine how OP T3 destroyers will be on the forum with whine tears of losses in a few months and they will be as unbeatable as Titans with XL guns in the past, Assigning Drones with a Carrier off grid, and Ishtars while all using in game mechanics (requiring CCP to step in to nerf them, Ishtar will probably get its due soon cause of tears and fears of losses by whiners ). Remember....they where all just using actual in game mechanics; XL guns tracking did insane damage with just a graze, Assigning drones has been since for ever, and will Ishtar isn't the problem, just all the new modules affect drones that didn't exist but buff similar to grid boosting (in the case of carriers) but that ishtars are so versatile and carry so many drones. No actual exploits and bugs unlike that Monkeysphere tool not showing up in local until he attacked (from years back). |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
582
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Posted - 2015.02.28 09:09:32 -
[8] - Quote
Translation:
Tactical destroyers are awesome!
Now I have a feeling that CCP Caldari-hater will give light missiles and rockets that heavy missile treatment and then introduce a Caldari destroyer
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7552
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Posted - 2015.02.28 09:14:43 -
[9] - Quote
I almost killed a Confessor in an Assault Frigate today. True story. Then it got away in 10% structure.
Tech 3 Dessies are far from "invincible." Except when people roam around in fleets of them. But then... that is true for any ship in sufficient numbers.
"The Skillpoint System and You"
"How did you Veterans start?"
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Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn Resonance.
117
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Posted - 2015.02.28 09:16:36 -
[10] - Quote
Well, it would make sense to some degree. T3s can only enter a level above, just like T3 Cruisers can't enter Mediums (only Large) |
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
582
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Posted - 2015.02.28 09:58:30 -
[11] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:I almost killed a Confessor in an Assault Frigate today. True story. Then it got away in 10% structure.
Tech 3 Dessies are far from "invincible." Except when people roam around in fleets of them. But then... that is true for any ship in sufficient numbers.
I killed one of them on Monday and then his buddy came in a Cerberus and I killed him too.
They are far from unbeatable but keep in mind that they are supposed to be frigate hunter-killers and they can jump into a small gang of them and come out ahead.
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Arla Sarain
321
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Posted - 2015.02.28 13:03:14 -
[12] - Quote
I don't think it's strictly because they are so tanky, but generally because kiting meta is much better than brawling and not a lot of things can catch T3Ds.
But yeah their inclusion into the small plex is dumb. |
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
88
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Posted - 2015.02.28 16:57:40 -
[13] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:I don't think it's strictly because they are so tanky, but generally because kiting meta is much better than brawling and not a lot of things can catch T3Ds.
But yeah their inclusion into the small plex is dumb.
It was a good idea, to give them a field to test them out.
This post I probably should have posted under the ships and modules thread.
Anyone who suggests I stop qq by shipping into the very topic of this discussion should gtfo. Such an opinion is loses credibility and offers nothing to the balance discussion. I've tried TD with another dessie, AB fit, close orbit. I was not fast enough, and I doubt he would have missed me were I mwd fit. Confessor has good cap, hard to cap him out before he kills you. A long range fit with a web will murder any small brawl ship. They are really fast and bounce you around in speed mode if you kite them. I'm not saying Nerf them, just realize that they are too OP for Smalls when the only T1 hull response to a fleet of them is a cruiser. Why would I ever purposely lose ships to them to make a point?
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
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Iain Cariaba
1090
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Posted - 2015.02.28 17:52:34 -
[14] - Quote
Oreb Wing wrote:I think they are much too good. They should be restricted. Nothing can brawl them short of another t3. Only a ranged kiting frig with help can do it with the Svipul and Confessor. Soon the missile/rail t3's will come and nothing will work. Threy are the equivalent of a tanky Garmur or a Worm with a high rack weapon bonus in a Novice. Bring friends. Speaking from experience, half a dozen t1/faction frigates will annihilate the D3s.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
88
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Posted - 2015.02.28 19:08:20 -
[15] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:I think they are much too good. They should be restricted. Nothing can brawl them short of another t3. Only a ranged kiting frig with help can do it with the Svipul and Confessor. Soon the missile/rail t3's will come and nothing will work. Threy are the equivalent of a tanky Garmur or a Worm with a high rack weapon bonus in a Novice. Bring friends. Speaking from experience, half a dozen t1/faction frigates will annihilate the D3s.
The same could be said about a pvp solo t3 cruiser. How prominent they are with solo roaming should be a testament to how confident pilots are with this ship, another clear indication that these t3dessies are very oppressive in small plexes.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
786
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Posted - 2015.02.28 19:40:54 -
[16] - Quote
The thing about plex 'sizes' is to shoot for decent fights/artificial balance by means of limited classes. These kinda break that. |
Iain Cariaba
1090
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Posted - 2015.02.28 19:55:12 -
[17] - Quote
afkalt wrote:The thing about plex 'sizes' is to shoot for decent fights/artificial balance by means of limited classes. These kinda break that. So pay attention to dscan, warp out when you see one, then come back with backup and kill them. Seems pretty balanced to me for the fact you're dealing with a t3.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
787
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Posted - 2015.02.28 21:23:38 -
[18] - Quote
Based on that logic, why bother with any gate limits then?
They are there for a reason, or they are not. |
Iain Cariaba
1090
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Posted - 2015.02.28 21:51:36 -
[19] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Based on that logic, why bother with any gate limits then?
They are there for a reason, or they are not. Because it still enforces that artificial balance you were talking about. Sure the d3s are powerful, but they're not as OP as you think. The fact that they fall easily to a small handful of t1 frigates is proof, of this.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
818
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Posted - 2015.02.28 22:01:01 -
[20] - Quote
lets wait a bit and see if the player base can learn to counter them over the next few months rather than going to CCP to make a change that may not be needed
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
91
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Posted - 2015.03.01 03:42:32 -
[21] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:lets wait a bit and see if the player base can learn to counter them over the next few months rather than going to CCP to make a change that may not be needed
I agree that we should allow time for the release of the other faction D3's to be tested by the meta. After this testing phase, Rise should mose definitely stop trolling us by allowing these to stomp all over smalls.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
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Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
91
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Posted - 2015.03.01 03:45:34 -
[22] - Quote
Lugburz wrote:/me hides his daredevil
daredevil is more expensive than a D3 and has counters by ships in its own class.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
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Lugh Crow-Slave
819
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Posted - 2015.03.01 04:28:01 -
[23] - Quote
Oreb Wing wrote:Lugburz wrote:/me hides his daredevil daredevil is more expensive than a D3 and has counters by ships in its own class.
price is not a balancing factor and the D3s can also be countered by ships in its class so what is your point
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Kiryen O'Bannon
Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans
212
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Posted - 2015.03.01 04:30:29 -
[24] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:afkalt wrote:Based on that logic, why bother with any gate limits then?
They are there for a reason, or they are not. Because it still enforces that artificial balance you were talking about. Sure the d3s are powerful, but they're not as OP as you think. The fact that they fall easily to a small handful of t1 frigates is proof, of this. Edit: actually, the svipul my corpmates killed last night was done by an enyo, a tristan, and a fed navy comet. All three ships easily allowed into a small site. They took it out while his buddy in a garmur was busy killing me.
Not that I really have an opinion one way or the other on this, but an Enyo is not a T 1 frigate, and while technically faction frigates are T1, they aren't normally what one thinks of when one says " T1 frigate". |
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
91
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Posted - 2015.03.01 04:37:03 -
[25] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:Lugburz wrote:/me hides his daredevil daredevil is more expensive than a D3 and has counters by ships in its own class. price is not a balancing factor and the D3s can also be countered by ships in its class so what is your point
Penalties and price are most definitely a contributing factor to *a ships* use and application.
As for countering D3's with an offensive plexing capable ship, give me some examples hot-shot.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
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Valkin Mordirc
663
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Posted - 2015.03.01 09:10:57 -
[26] - Quote
Oreb Wing wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:Lugburz wrote:/me hides his daredevil daredevil is more expensive than a D3 and has counters by ships in its own class. price is not a balancing factor and the D3s can also be countered by ships in its class so what is your point Penalties and price are most definitely a contributing factor to *a ships* use and application. As for countering D3's with an offensive plexing capable ship, give me some examples hot-shot.
Price is not a balance factor. If ships were balanced on price then Titans would lolstomp everything in there path. Which they don't. A dread would blap everything cheaper then it. Which it does not.
So please tell me how price determines balances?
Also a Confessor has a weakness to neuts...soooo uh...you see a fessor on D-scan bring a ship that can use I dunno, Neuts?
Also your in major Alliance. You can always call for help. Bat-phoning is something.
And yes Lugh is a hot shot. Why do you bring it up?
#DeleteTheWeak
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Catherine Laartii
Imperium Technologies Evictus.
485
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Posted - 2015.03.01 10:18:36 -
[27] - Quote
+1 t3 cruisers can't fit in mediums, t3 dessies shouldn't fit in smalls. |
Lug Muad'Dib
Wise Humans Sword
39
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Posted - 2015.03.01 11:23:19 -
[28] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Price is not a balance factor.
lol. In practice, price is the first balance factor. Why fly tristan instead of worm, condor instead of garmur ?
D-Scan immunity is dumb.
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Valkin Mordirc
665
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Posted - 2015.03.01 12:56:16 -
[29] - Quote
If I sell a Worm for 5 mil on the Market does it suddenly become worse then a Tristan?
"lol"
#DeleteTheWeak
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Lugh Crow-Slave
822
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Posted - 2015.03.01 13:04:22 -
[30] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:If I sell a Worm for 5 mil on the Market does it suddenly become worse then a Tristan?
"lol"
better question if i sell a rookie ship to my alt for 120bill can i go on a slaughter spree
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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