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Mrs Whoops
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.02.28 05:37:20 -
[1] - Quote
Hello all. I'm a fairly new player to the game, but I've got the hang of the game mechanics pretty fast, and 21 days in, I'm 3 bil richer than i started. So you could say it has been a joy ride so far.. That was until today.
These funds have pushed me into a new adventure; keeping haulers up on their toes. Or at least I thought i would. So i have been doing a lot of research the last couple of days the on gate camping and solo ganking in HS and came up with this fit i found in a guide:
[Thrasher, Ganker Fit] Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution Script Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution Script Tracking Computer I, Tracking Speed Script
280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion S 280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion S 280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion S 280mm Howitzer Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion S [empty high slot]
Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Processor Overclocking Unit I Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
DPS: 111 Volley: 851
I then created a new account and trained a toon to 1) Fly a Probe fitted with Passive Targeter, Cargo Scanner and a Ship scanner. 2) Fly a Mammoth to haul the goods to safety.
Tactic/Execution:
First to know, I have two laptops to control the two toons
I've planned only to attack Industrials, Frigates, Shuttles in Tech I, because i don't think i can take on more before concord shows up (20-25 sec in 0.5 right?) and a mammoth with around 2400 ehp would take three volleys. I dont know if the math is right, again i'm new, i only know the volley of the thrasher and the ehp of the target.
First i locate a bottleneck from two major trade hubs, this was 0.5 and 0.6 systems. I take my probe and my alt (on laptop 2) and fly through the system until i find a gate with no npc ships (dunno if all will attack haven't found any info on eg. custom patrollers attacking when you get gcc, anyone knows?) When a free gate is located in (lets call it system B), where i wanna gank my target, i find the gate in that system where the targets is coming from and jump through that gate, to camp there (Lets call it system A) Meanwhile i have taken my main toon and my thrasher on the other laptop and jumped it to system B, and warped to the gate where my Probe is sitting on the other side scanning. I scan only targets who is on autopilot, and when i found a target with good cargo, no fittings in a Bestower, I thought to myself that this would be a sure hit, because of the lower ehp compared to the mammoth. It showed up that i was completely wrong. As soon as i knew i was gonna gank him, i started flying my probe two systems back to get the mammoth to be ready to scope to loot, while on my main i was already aligned and warping to 20 km of the free gate. All modules was ON and overheated, and i was ready! Meanwhile i undocked in my mammoth and was on my way back to the free gate. On my main, the bestower warped in 15 km from gate, i was cheerful. All modules blasting I locked him, and this is where it got sad for me.
Here is the log:
[ 2015.02.28 00:19:47 ] (notify) Ship stopping [ 2015.02.28 00:19:47 ] (notify) Please wait... [ 2015.02.28 00:29:53 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0,0126. [ 2015.02.28 00:29:53 ] (notify) Mrs Whoops: You have foolishly engaged in criminal activity within sight of sentry guns and must suffer the consequences. [ 2015.02.28 00:29:53 ] (notify) Mrs Whoops, criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed. [ 2015.02.28 00:29:54 ] (combat) 336 to SweetiePie 420 - 280mm Howitzer Artillery I - Penetrates [ 2015.02.28 00:29:54 ] (combat) 233 to SweetiePie 420 - 280mm Howitzer Artillery I - Hits [ 2015.02.28 00:29:56 ] (combat) 393 from Minmatar Sentry Gun - Penetrates [ 2015.02.28 00:29:56 ] (combat) 277 from Minmatar Sentry Gun - Hits [ 2015.02.28 00:29:56 ] (combat) 317 from Minmatar Sentry Gun - Penetrates [ 2015.02.28 00:29:56 ] (combat) 439 from Minmatar Sentry Gun - Smashes [ 2015.02.28 00:29:56 ] (combat) 372 from Minmatar Sentry Gun - Penetrates [ 2015.02.28 00:29:56 ] (combat) 636 from Minmatar Sentry Gun - Smashes [ 2015.02.28 00:29:58 ] (combat) 131 from Minmatar Sentry Gun - Penetrates [ 2015.02.28 00:32:15 ] (notify) Session change already in progress.
So after all the reading on the subject i'm kinda stuck on what i did wrong here. Is it the ship, the fit, the execution? I read on eveinfo.net on the subject on suicide ganking, that i just should warp to 15 km of the stargate, then sentry guns would have harder killing me.. But i didn't stand a chance at all as you can see lol.
What am I doing wrong, I have tried be as precise as i can on how i did it the wrong way, so maybe some of you old schoolers can see the errors?
Wow, you made it down here, you deserve a bear.. go get it |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
37
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Posted - 2015.02.28 06:21:42 -
[2] - Quote
Thank you for posting here. That kind of post makes it easier for every miner and hauler to identify possible gankers and mark them red and tell every friend to avoid any encounter with you. Fly safe.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen."(Zitat eines Singles)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind."(Zitat von einem, dem es egal ist)
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
11943
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Posted - 2015.02.28 06:24:24 -
[3] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote:Thank you for posting here. That kind of post makes it easier for every miner and hauler to identify possible gankers and mark them red and tell every friend to avoid any encounter with you. Fly safe.
It's not like you guys are at the keyboard anyway.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23512
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Posted - 2015.02.28 06:53:48 -
[4] - Quote
This was a good read, thank you. I took some notes in my Evernote. In 21 days you have a better hang of the game than I do in a year.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Mrs Whoops
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.02.28 06:56:37 -
[5] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote:Thank you for posting here. That kind of post makes it easier for every miner and hauler to identify possible gankers and mark them red and tell every friend to avoid any encounter with you. Fly safe.
Well i guess your mining buddies ain't very informed about the game they are playing, if a newbro like me only playing for three weeks is telling something groundbreaking in the OP. But hey, it nice to teach some young kids new stuff.. lol |
Mrs Whoops
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:01:43 -
[6] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: This was a good read, thank you. I took some notes in my Evernote. In 21 days you have a better hang of the game than I do in a year.
Sure thing, but there i nothing in that post that ain't around with some simple google searches on the topic. But it went bad anyways, so maybe you should test them notes, and get back to me if you succeed, because i'm missing something clearly |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
37
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:06:09 -
[7] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote:Thank you for posting here. That kind of post makes it easier for every miner and hauler to identify possible gankers and mark them red and tell every friend to avoid any encounter with you. Fly safe. It's not like you guys are at the keyboard anyway. THAT IS CORRECT. EVEN THIS IS A BOT POSTING AN ANSWER. LIQ
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen."(Zitat eines Singles)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind."(Zitat von einem, dem es egal ist)
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Trevor Dalech
Adeptus Assassinorum Silent Eviction
94
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:11:05 -
[8] - Quote
As far as I now, sentry guns have 150km range and perfect tracking. There is nothing you can do to soften their effect. Tactic is usually to get enough dps/alpha on your thrasher that you can kill your target before the sentry guns pop you. So, aside from not doing enough damage (skill perhaps?) I don't think you did anything wrong.
However, I am not a suicide ganker, so i might be missing something here. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23513
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:24:35 -
[9] - Quote
Hi there, let's see if I can provide you some information.
First, a few Thrasher fits: D400's double volley fit (possibly modified from Sol's) A fit John E posted a while back Sol's "tripple" volley Thrasher fit
Sentry gun info:
ISD IonCharge wrote:Sentry guns deal 176dps per gun, 80em-80ex-140ki-140th damage every 2.5 seconds; 500+50km range, 1000km targeting range, 8 max locked targets; 150km engagement range in lowsec, grid range in hisec. 100m turret resolution, 0.4rad/s tracking.
On most stargates and stations you will find a CONCORD billboard, which will fire missiles for ~19dps, though these can be destroyed (do not shoot in hisec!). Destroyed billboards respawn at downtime.
The total DPS you'll need to tank at a lowsec gate is 371, or 352 if you destroy the billboard.
I switched to my phone so it's kind of hard to type and aggregate information. Sorry if it is confusing!
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
155
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:30:30 -
[10] - Quote
Disclaimer, I might be totally wrong here, but here it goes...
You need to pull concord somewhere else in system to prep it. This will give you the concord response time you can read about in most places. Just take a rookieship to closest POCO and engage it, proceed to chill out 15m before doing your deeds. It's not like your target will know about someone going criminal in a local he's not in while doing the shopping.
Then I've been told the 250mm will be able to give more DPS before the sentry guns take you out. Heard D60 or something is the pilot you want to speak with about Thrasher ganks, or Solecist Project. [edit just check Sibbyls post on fittings]
Happy hunting! |
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23513
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:36:03 -
[11] - Quote
Also, switch to 250s (like in the linked fits) and fit Burst Aerators in your rigs for better rate of fire. The 280s on their own are too slow. Also try fitting some tank for those sentries. A shield booster or an adaptive invuln should do the trick.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Mrs Whoops
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:44:47 -
[12] - Quote
Trevor Dalech wrote:As far as I now, sentry guns have 150km range and perfect tracking. There is nothing you can do to soften their effect. Tactic is usually to get enough dps/alpha on your thrasher that you can kill your target before the sentry guns pop you. So, aside from not doing enough damage (skill perhaps?) I don't think you did anything wrong.
However, I am not a suicide ganker, so i might be missing something here.
Yeah i know about the range, but again, most gangs is completed within 15 km of gate, because thats where autopilot warps you. But the skill issue is probably the case here, maybe i should wait until i can fit t2's
Sibyyl wrote:Hi there, let's see if I can provide you some information. First, a few Thrasher fits: D400's double volley fit (possibly modified from Sol's) A fit John E posted a while backSol's "tripple" volley Thrasher fitSentry gun info: ISD IonCharge wrote:Sentry guns deal 176dps per gun, 80em-80ex-140ki-140th damage every 2.5 seconds; 500+50km range, 1000km targeting range, 8 max locked targets; 150km engagement range in lowsec, grid range in hisec. 100m turret resolution, 0.4rad/s tracking.
On most stargates and stations you will find a CONCORD billboard, which will fire missiles for ~19dps, though these can be destroyed (do not shoot in hisec!). Destroyed billboards respawn at downtime.
The total DPS you'll need to tank at a lowsec gate is 371, or 352 if you destroy the billboard. I switched to my phone so it's kind of hard to type and aggregate information. Sorry if it is confusing!
Hey, thx for the fits, only problem about them is they have defense modules fitted.. every guide i read on the subject tells not to waste slots on a glass cannon with defence modules, they won't cycle before you are popped.. But attack modules on the other hand boost your volley and dps, which helps you from getting where i was lol.
Kaea Astridsson wrote:Disclaimer, I might be totally wrong here, but here it goes...
You need to pull concord somewhere else in system to prep it. This will give you the concord response time you can read about in most places. Just take a rookieship to closest POCO and engage it, proceed to chill out 15m before doing your deeds. It's not like your target will know about someone going criminal in a local he's not in while doing the shopping.
Then I've been told the 250mm will be able to give more DPS before the sentry guns take you out. Heard D60 or something is the pilot you want to speak with about Thrasher ganks, or Solecist Project. [edit just check Sibbyls post on fittings]
Happy hunting!
Yeah i did that yesterday in a rookie ship because no gates was free, but tonight i was lucky and got a freebie.. And yes the 250's will put out more DPS but wont they also put out less volley damage? which is what counts in a suicide gank. |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
404
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:47:42 -
[13] - Quote
Train into a Thorax or Vexor. You are too limited in what you can do with an Arty Thrasher.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/44670241/
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Mrs Whoops
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:50:24 -
[14] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Well just heard so many success stories with the thrasher, it should be the king of ganking.. crusier means more loss also. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23515
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Posted - 2015.02.28 07:51:17 -
[15] - Quote
If you are ganking at belts, then you would be wasting slots by fitting a tank. If you are doing it at a gate, you want to be able to get 2-3 volleys off, unless you have a friend who bumps your target out of range of sentries (must get them off grid in hisec).
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
404
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Posted - 2015.02.28 08:03:53 -
[16] - Quote
Mrs Whoops wrote:McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote: Well just heard so many success stories with the thrasher, it should be the king of ganking.. crusier means more loss also. It's excellent at ganking small things and untanked haulers, but you're limited to 3000-3500 damage. A single Medium Shield Extender is enough to counteract that.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
676
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Posted - 2015.02.28 08:28:47 -
[17] - Quote
Mrs Whoops wrote:McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote: Well just heard so many success stories with the thrasher, it should be the king of ganking.. crusier means more loss also. Thrashers are great for ganking soft targets and the preferred choice on gates, but they do have the problem that untanked, they will not last against the sentry guns. You need to put some defensive mods on to get a second or third shot off, so if you have to go full DPS to make up for low skills, you will only have one shot. If your volly can only do 550 damage as your log suggests, your targets will be quite limited for now.
Now, rail guns do suffer from poor tracking so it may have been you did not land your maximum damage because of a non-zero transversal with your target. Make sure you are as in-line with the direction of movement of your target, and more towards your optimal range for maximum damage if possible. EFT can give you an estimate of your theoretical max volley damage.
Maximizing your damage requires balancing your tank against the gate guns, vs. your volley time. Ideally you want to explode a second after you get your second or third shot off to maximize your DPS:cost ratio. Fitting tank in these situations is often preferred than DPS mods to buy enough time for one more shot, and as was said, tanking the gate guns is much easier if you move up to a gank Cruiser (like a Vexor) with a little tank.
For a Thrasher in a 0.5-0.6 system, it will always be the gate guns that get you before CONCORD. Just make sure they are not spawned on the gate, but otherwise you can ignore them. But you will not get more than 4 volleys, usually only 2 or 3, and that will require one of the above fits. Untanked and with low skills, you will just get the one volley so really I would just start with shuttles if you are looking for profit, or autopiloting pods with a significant bounty.
Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
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Don Purple
Snuggle Society Snuggle Society.
1123
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Posted - 2015.02.28 09:15:33 -
[18] - Quote
A t1 vexor can gank haulers better for maybe 15m? Mesage me in game some time and I will help you out. With t2 gardes I can do up to 8k damage depending on sec status?. It can work with t1 gardes as well.
Snuggles, Don
I am just here to snuggle.
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Thomas Mayaki
Perkone Caldari State
47
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Posted - 2015.02.28 09:17:52 -
[19] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote:Thank you for posting here. That kind of post makes it easier for every miner and hauler to identify possible gankers and mark them red and tell every friend to avoid any encounter with you. Fly safe. It's not like you guys are at the keyboard anyway.
While that is true. I do occasionally glance at local. Also add persons of significance to your watch list. And keep it updated half of mine has a stack of banned Code. members on from back in the day they were a worth keeping a lookout for.
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Tisiphone Dira
New Order Logistics CODE.
139
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Posted - 2015.02.28 10:28:19 -
[20] - Quote
Any guide telling you not to fit tank on a thrasher for what you are trying to do is wrong. Yes it is the tank that you are missing. Guides like that (and I have seen them) are in my experience only interested in shuttles and pods.
As Pedro stated in a .5 or .6 you can still get those 3 volleys off (even right under CONCORD's nose Pedro, I've done it occasionally in systems near me where there isn't a station to pull em, and I can't be bothered to set it up so that I can, or when people have been sloppy earlier in the day) (by rails Pedro means artillery, we proud minmatar pilots don't use filthy gallente tech, but Pedro's point about the tracking is spot on)
An artillery thrasher will eventually be able to take un/anti tanked soft t1 haulers such as the iteron V or the mammoth with 3 volleys, the tankier versions like the nereus or the wreathe you cannot take with the thrasher. Other important targets with an artillery thrasher are interceptors and explorers. The t2 explorers often (i'd say about half the time) have a 70m mod (sister's launchers). And people use the interceptors to haul stuff, and then go on autopilot... (usually need 3 volleys, I've killed the odd interceptor with 2 volleys but it's not common)
As others have said, a t1 artillery thrasher is not really ideal for industrial ganking because of the t1 industrials only really 4 (don't be a pedant and talk to me about anti-tanked 0 skill epithals and the like please) are a viable target, and only then if they are fit poorly. Upshipping to a vexor is where it is at. I use a vexor myself, I've also seen ruptures and Moas being used. PV rock used an autocannon thrasher as well, which seems to have 260dps before implants, rather than the artillery thrasher's 180 which does open some windows, though not nearly as much as a vexor.
Pedro, I've yet to test it but recon you could get 4 volleys doing this?: http://imgur.com/XpvhWro |
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Paranoid Loyd
3988
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Posted - 2015.02.28 16:10:37 -
[21] - Quote
If the ship can't be alpha'd then the catalyst is superior to the thrasher for gate ganking. Check my kb for a proper gate catalyst fit. As mentioned, tank is required as the gate guns are what kill you not Concord. Cruisers are used for catching non auto piloting ships at the in gate. If you are killing for profit they are well worth the investment as non auto-piloting indys tend to have a higher chance of having something worth the cost of a cruiser or even a BC. If you are killing just to kill I would probably stick to destroyers.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Tisiphone Dira
New Order Logistics CODE.
142
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Posted - 2015.02.28 18:31:54 -
[22] - Quote
Cat over thrasher for interceptors even? |
Paranoid Loyd
3988
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Posted - 2015.02.28 18:44:54 -
[23] - Quote
No in that case you need to rely on the range of the arty as they will run out of your range in a cat.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Steppa Musana
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2015.02.28 21:11:08 -
[24] - Quote
Two gate guns do 350 dps (EM 16%, Explosive 16%, Kinetic 28%, Thermal 28%). So count the guns on gate, divide by 2, multiply by 350, and divide your tank by that to get how much time you last on grid. Then divide that by your cycle time and add 1. Remove the decimals and multiply by your alpha. That's your total damage, and the best way to compare fits for this job. |
Mrs Whoops
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.03.16 01:14:51 -
[25] - Quote
Wow, a lot of juicy information here, very good reading.. Sorry for not getting back to yall, real life been busy
I think i have to stop my skill training in minmatar ships and small artillery, so i can start from scratch on gallente ships and hybrid weapons systems.. It seems what most people agrees on.
For now i'll stick with with the thrasher jumping smaller haulers, have enough isk for testing the durability for different builds, so maybe i'll come up with a guide some day on ganking gates in thrashers, as someone pointed out, the guides out there is poor and full with wrong information.
I got answer on all my question so thanks to all, good thread.
Anyone wanna team up, just mail me in game.
For everyone else, look out for my name in local
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Desudes
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
432
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Posted - 2015.03.16 01:23:37 -
[26] - Quote
Dunno if anyone pointed it out cause im too lazy to read but you can get 30-40k ehp tanks with all passive t2 mods in t1 haulers. Probably ran into someone that actually tanked their ship.
Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23277
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Posted - 2015.03.16 19:14:39 -
[27] - Quote
Desudes wrote:Dunno if anyone pointed it out cause im too lazy to read but you can get 30-40k ehp tanks with all passive t2 mods in t1 haulers. Probably ran into someone that actually tanked their ship. While true enough, a large percentage of people still fit for cargo over tank, the same way that many miners fit for yield over tank.
The people who tank their T1 haulers are generally the ones that are aware of gankers and not autopiloting in the first place.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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