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Exotic Matters
Fried Liver Attack
27
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Posted - 2015.02.28 08:52:24 -
[1] - Quote
I think the statistics on the killboards could be improved to give more meaningful stats.
As it stands a pilot who sits in a 100 man fleet gatecamping will have much better stats than a 2 or 3 man gang who take on battles that require more risk and skill.
I tried to think of ways that amount of damage done or number of final blows/most damage would be tracked but this would discredit the value of tackle and other non-dps warfare that often requires more skill. Other things would require numbers that are not already recorded by the game.
But at the very least it seem like it would be easy to generate a stat that took into account the number of pilots on the kill. So you would have an "adjusted" kill stat where if you were in a 100 man fleet you would get .01 kill and if you were in a 2 man fleet you would get .5 kill.
Or perhaps the isk ratio be based on this. If 100 ships kill a 100 million isk ship, the pilot gets credit for 1 million isk damage. As it stands a 90% isk efficiency is a stat entirely without meaning and can be achieved by the worst pilot in the game if he joins the right fleets. But this stat I suggest would be a much more reliable gauge of the success rate of the pilot.
Maybe other ideas that haven't occurred to me, just seems to me that the numbers are less meaningful than they could be. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30655
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Posted - 2015.02.28 09:04:44 -
[2] - Quote
I was under the impression the points systems on killboard sites accounted for this.
While we're on the topic of killmails for the sake of meaning, remove ISK values from in-game killmails to reduce some of the risk aversion that is so deeply ingrained in EVE's player culture.
Worrying about killboards is part of the risk aversion problem. On top of ISK value, there's this subjective l337 factor. If it's important to you, why isn't it enough to evaluate killmails by your personal standards and beliefs... and why do you think it's necessary to change killmails for what they convey? They're already a record of engagements, isn't that sufficient?
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2157
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Posted - 2015.02.28 09:08:34 -
[3] - Quote
Get rid of killboards. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30655
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Posted - 2015.02.28 09:11:38 -
[4] - Quote
I think it would be interesting to have records of all acts of aggression, not just ones that resulted in kills. Attempted points, stalemates, damage tanked (successfully), docking games, can looting, etc.
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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vccv
14
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Posted - 2015.02.28 09:14:35 -
[5] - Quote
Kiandoshia wrote:Get rid of killboards.
I 100% agree with this statement. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1217
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Posted - 2015.02.28 09:17:15 -
[6] - Quote
OP, feel free to:
a) make your own b) stop worrying about KB stats
I'm old Gregor.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30655
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Posted - 2015.02.28 09:25:23 -
[7] - Quote
nah, you can't get rid of killboards... they're one of the few signs of EVE's activity to the outside world.
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Exotic Matters
Fried Liver Attack
27
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Posted - 2015.02.28 10:46:02 -
[8] - Quote
I'm not overly worried about killboards, but I do like to have some measure of how I am doing. As it stands the numbers only really tell me how much I play the game, not how well I am doing at it.
Having stats like I suggested would tend to reward blop gangs less, perhaps encourage people to fight more in smaller gangs as they would be rewarded for it in the numbers even if they lost more ships, making them less risk averse.
It's not like I would be on the top of any list no matter how you cooked the numbers, I'm mediocre at best, I just like to see better data. |
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
542
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Posted - 2015.02.28 10:46:17 -
[9] - Quote
risk aversion - uh, until recently we called this "intelligence"
kids these days
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Justin Zaine
201
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Posted - 2015.02.28 10:57:17 -
[10] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:risk aversion - uh, until recently we called this "intelligence"
kids these days
If we were talking about pvp'ers who refuse to fight impossible odds, you might have a point.
Alas, we are talking about guys who put 4 stabs and a cloak on their otherwise unfit D-plexing magnates.
Wheeeeeee
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34146
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Posted - 2015.02.28 10:58:24 -
[11] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:risk aversion - uh, until recently we called this "intelligence"
kids these days In a game where there is nothing lost but enjoyment, it's not intelligent, it's just dumb and boring.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30658
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Posted - 2015.02.28 11:58:10 -
[12] - Quote
Exotic Matters wrote:I'm not overly worried about killboards, but I do like to have some measure of how I am doing. As it stands the numbers only really tell me how much I play the game, not how well I am doing at it.
Having stats like I suggested would tend to reward blop gangs less, perhaps encourage people to fight more in smaller gangs as they would be rewarded for it in the numbers even if they lost more ships, making them less risk averse.
It's not like I would be on the top of any list no matter how you cooked the numbers, I'm mediocre at best, I just like to see better data. "rewarded" ... you place value on killmails and consider them something rewarding if altered?
Ok, I get it. You're looking for something like a "solo kill" badge, or some other achievement type stat... ?
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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ACESsiggy
University of Caille
31
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Posted - 2015.02.28 13:40:22 -
[13] - Quote
Logi Pilots need love too =ƒÜÇGÇ+n+Å
GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
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Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
40211
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Posted - 2015.02.28 13:57:45 -
[14] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:While we're on the topic of killmails for the sake of meaning, remove ISK values from in-game killmails to reduce some of the risk aversion that is so deeply ingrained in EVE's player culture.
but what would you then base the bounty pay out on ?
and nevermind the fact that the the killboards base the values from market trades and not what the ingame value says |
Thorn en Distel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2015.02.28 14:04:48 -
[15] - Quote
Killboards are stupid. I have yet to play a game where they say anything about actual skill as a PVPer. Universally, you get people who pad their stats by killing their own alts, hunting low levels (who generally can't even hit a higher level), killing noncombattants or ganking small groups and solo players with large groups. |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
129
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Posted - 2015.02.28 14:14:40 -
[16] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:nah, you can't get rid of killboards... they're one of the few signs of EVE's activity to the outside world.
Never heard anyone who doesn't play Eve ask about kill boards.
Only one who care are Eve players...and even then its not all Eve players.
I want to keep them because it gives me a laugh when I look at someones kill board and see nothing but ships that cant fight back. (mining/exploration ships, MTUs) |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
737
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Posted - 2015.02.28 14:26:06 -
[17] - Quote
Gold stickers, get so many you get an award. Works on children to show they did something good....surprisingly the same mindset means that as an adult you are easily tricked with kill streaks and ratios like a 5 year old who made the bed or did their chores, means you didn't in fact grow up. Its an easy tactic for gaming companies (like FPS with kill streaks) to make money off idiots who are pulled in by "easy" awards to keep the player entertained. Said player forgets, its just a video game and needs something shiney to stay interested otherwise they just won't keep on playing....like a 5 year old who needs stickers and eventually a prize.
Don't know about you as I would rather enjoy just the game, killmails are stupid beyond player name and ship type (kill a cruiser in a frig for example)....any other stat is just something for mental ************ material to distract you from enjoying the game to the point its just a job and a grind to be in the joe average above 50% percentile when in fact after awhile you realize you are just padding your score (like using isk) and beating down players that don't actually pose a challenge (at least in the sense of other games, EVE doesn't exactly have an honorable code of player combat ) |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23520
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Posted - 2015.02.28 15:23:26 -
[18] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:While we're on the topic of killmails for the sake of meaning, remove ISK values from in-game killmails to reduce some of the risk aversion that is so deeply ingrained in EVE's player culture.
Worrying about killboards is part of the risk aversion problem. On top of ISK value, there's this subjective l337 factor. If it's important to you, why isn't it enough to evaluate killmails by your personal standards and beliefs... and why do you think it's necessary to change killmails for what they convey? They're already a record of engagements, isn't that sufficient?
zKill and other 3rd party sites can extract regional average prices with CREST. This information will not disappear from any 3rd party killboard sites. "Risk aversion" and "l337 factor" are social characteristics of gaming. Those won't be solved by altering killboards which impose no rule mechanics in EVE (like say.. clone grades did).
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30660
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Posted - 2015.02.28 15:33:18 -
[19] - Quote
There are better selections of API information to yield based on player activity. More thoughtful, even. Some type of playstyle reputation system perhaps(more granular and descriptive than security status).
Like, hmm... Pilot Rating: Dangerous
or
Lone Wolf
or
Gangbanger.
Knawmeen gurrah?
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23523
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Posted - 2015.02.28 15:42:18 -
[20] - Quote
Did you mean data aggregation?
http://eve-plh.com/
http://gankerlookout.com/
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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M'pact
Apotheosis of Caledvwich Dirt Nap Squad.
58
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Posted - 2015.02.28 15:43:46 -
[21] - Quote
Exotic--
There are some killboards (like Eve-Kill) that only track kills/losses.
There are others (like BattleClinic) that track the kills/losses, plus give a point score per kill/loss. The point scores go by damage done and how many were on the kill/loss, plus the differences between the ship types involved.
What you need to do is use one of the latter killboards. They give exactly what you want.
When I finally do make an impact on this universe, it will reverberate across the entirety of it, and no one will be able to truthfully claim they don't know me.
-
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Until then, I'll just sit quietly over here, minding my own business...
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30661
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Posted - 2015.02.28 15:57:16 -
[22] - Quote
I think OP wants a rank system. It's a good idea imo, it would send the killboard-motivated into overdrive. I don't know how well that will translate into their personal lives, as you can only be awake for 24 hours a day as it is.
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Zoe Athame
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
208
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Posted - 2015.02.28 16:24:23 -
[23] - Quote
It doesn't really matter how complex of a ranking system you use, people will still find the best way to abuse it.
Corp/Alliance killboards are arguably more important than individual player pages and they already eliminate most of the redundancy. |
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2168
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 17:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:nah, you can't get rid of killboards... they're one of the few signs of EVE's activity to the outside world.
They still don't understand it. |
Asura Vajrarupa
Sanguis Inceptum
32
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Posted - 2015.02.28 18:19:07 -
[25] - Quote
Exotic Matters wrote:I think the statistics on the killboards could be improved to give more meaningful stats.
As it stands a pilot who sits in a 100 man fleet gatecamping will have much better stats than a 2 or 3 man gang who take on battles that require more risk and skill.
I tried to think of ways that amount of damage done or number of final blows/most damage would be tracked but this would discredit the value of tackle and other non-dps warfare that often requires more skill. Other things would require numbers that are not already recorded by the game.
But at the very least it seem like it would be easy to generate a stat that took into account the number of pilots on the kill. So you would have an "adjusted" kill stat where if you were in a 100 man fleet you would get .01 kill and if you were in a 2 man fleet you would get .5 kill.
Or perhaps the isk ratio be based on this. If 100 ships kill a 100 million isk ship, the pilot gets credit for 1 million isk damage. As it stands a 90% isk efficiency is a stat entirely without meaning and can be achieved by the worst pilot in the game if he joins the right fleets. But this stat I suggest would be a much more reliable gauge of the success rate of the pilot.
Maybe other ideas that haven't occurred to me, just seems to me that the numbers are less meaningful than they could be.
The kill boards are nice for rating certain bench marks, like say my isk efficiency drops and I need to reevaluate what I'm doing. Some use it for other more intangible psychological needs. But a statistic is never going to convey reality. The only way your truly going to know the value of a pilot's skill is to fly with or against the pilot. Statistics are best a metric and at worst a comfort blanket.
Ignorance is the cause of suffering.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2698
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 18:42:45 -
[26] - Quote
I'd rather remove the bloody killboards all together , done nothing more then make people/alliances aim for ''riskfree'' pvp .The only thing i do when i check someones killstats is press the solo tab and all of a sudden those 1000+kills over the last year become 2 kills like an ibis and a pod .Especially those who cry the loudest about how high-sec carebears are risk-averse.
Killboardstats means absolutely nothing in regards to how good someone is at pvp and especially not at how much risk they dare to take in pvp .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Glathull
Warlock Assassins
962
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Posted - 2015.02.28 19:04:05 -
[27] - Quote
The only way to remove killboards is to remove kills.
Is that really the position some of you are intending to take?
I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Shut up, Anslo. --everyone
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30663
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 19:06:11 -
[28] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:Rain6637 wrote:While we're on the topic of killmails for the sake of meaning, remove ISK values from in-game killmails to reduce some of the risk aversion that is so deeply ingrained in EVE's player culture.
but what would you then base the bounty pay out on ? and nevermind the fact that the the killboards base the values from market trades and not what the ingame value says pay out the whole thing to the final blow.
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Glathull
Warlock Assassins
964
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 19:29:28 -
[29] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote: pay out the whole thing to the final blow.
That's what I tell all my prawn stars.
I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Shut up, Anslo. --everyone
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2698
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 19:33:17 -
[30] - Quote
Glathull wrote:The only way to remove killboards is to remove kills.
Is that really the position some of you are intending to take?
Yup , the question is do you want a kill to show off to your friends how awsome you are or do you just want a kill so that your opponent ''suffered a loss''.If it isn't for e-peening then what would a killmail contribute?I've allways done pvp to kick the opponent on the ground , and in a lot of cases he burried me in the ground.
Killmails only have a negative impact on pvp.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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