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Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
557
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Posted - 2015.03.03 05:53:26 -
[31] - Quote
Alexa Stryker wrote:Is there a logical reason why Covewrt Cynos is not allowed in high sec? I don't see any problems allowing them in High sec imho. What would be the point? Is there a logical reason to subvert high sec into homogenious sec to make a handful of players who think they're game designing geniuses happy?
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Alexei Stryker
Steiners Erben
59
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Posted - 2015.03.03 09:56:34 -
[32] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Alexa Stryker wrote:Is there a logical reason why Covewrt Cynos is not allowed in high sec? I don't see any problems allowing them in High sec imho. Probably because it would create another exception in the code, which CCP hates, as it leads to hard to maintain and buggy code.
If that creates a hard to maintain exception in the code... Then shame on you software architect... shame on you...
Pok Nibin wrote:What would be the point? Is there a logical reason to subvert high sec into homogenious sec to make a handful of players who think they're game designing geniuses happy? Your reasoning is not logical at all.
Maybe CCP Falcon could enlighten us? Aliens maybe?
Walking in station
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Arden Elenduil
Laurus Manus Concordia Incorporated II
323
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Posted - 2015.03.03 13:14:39 -
[33] - Quote
Alexei Stryker wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Alexa Stryker wrote:Is there a logical reason why Covewrt Cynos is not allowed in high sec? I don't see any problems allowing them in High sec imho. Probably because it would create another exception in the code, which CCP hates, as it leads to hard to maintain and buggy code. If that creates a hard to maintain exception in the code... Then shame on you software architect... shame on you... Pok Nibin wrote:What would be the point? Is there a logical reason to subvert high sec into homogenious sec to make a handful of players who think they're game designing geniuses happy? Your reasoning is not logical at all. Maybe CCP Falcon could enlighten us? Aliens maybe?
Actually, changing that is simply changing a single flag in the settings for all highsec systems |
Arden Elenduil
Laurus Manus Concordia Incorporated II
328
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Posted - 2015.03.03 23:54:16 -
[34] - Quote
Here you go, a proper thread about it.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5547351#post5547351 |
PhantomMajor
High Flyers The Kadeshi
28
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Posted - 2015.03.04 03:17:34 -
[35] - Quote
+1 for the hi sec hot droppers |
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2196
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Posted - 2015.03.04 07:25:42 -
[36] - Quote
Sisohiv wrote:Adriana Nolen wrote:Cause some of us would use it to move around exclusively. This is the answer after all the posturing and scare mongering is cut away. Black Ops Hot dropping is a closet monster. Covert Cyno is not the same as standard. The cheapest hull that can light one is 15 mill, no fit and like all cyno ships, it's a throw away in a hostile scenario. The restrictions on what can bridge with covert are pretty tight. You won't be suicide ganking with covert drops. They will be war dec only drops and the overall cost of making it happen for a limited engagement opportunity that starts with a 15 Mill+ loss is counter productive to the Industrial griefing that is, War Dec. On the other hand, I could in many cases skip gates with an Industrial BlOps bridge network. It would wipe out the cattle farms like Uedama and Perimeter, kill gate camping in low sec, high sec connection systems and other choke point positions like Orvolle/ Pf. I honestly don't think it's the issue CCP think it is. Most players are used to moving goods in large holds and would view the 12K max of a Prorator as inadequate, add in the logistics and ISK to set up a covert net in high sec. It might also be a coding issue. They can't do covert cyno without doing all, short of writing all new code for one or the other.
12k is a little inadequate for the people who make the cattle farms?
If you could do that level of logistics in a BR, why do we even have freighters and the like? Sure, blops ccyno chain around highsec... Even BRs build up quite a lot of jump AIDS going back and forth across those for larger distances. |
Jane Shapperd
SUPERFLUOUS WANDERLUST Gentlemen's.Club
124
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Posted - 2015.03.04 07:37:22 -
[37] - Quote
i see 2 reasons why covert cyno isnt allowed in high
1- too many neutrals : you will have no idea when to safe up if you are in a war dec . as anyone can hot drop you .
2 - safety in moving expensive loots : you could use a covert industral to move a **** ton of plexes safely .
undock warp to instant undock warp , warp to black op in a safe spot or a tower .
get bridged . warp to instant dock and dock .
you moved a **** ton of isk with less than 0.00000000001% risk. |
Alexa Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
9
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Posted - 2015.03.04 10:10:12 -
[38] - Quote
Jane Shapperd wrote:i see 2 reasons why covert cyno isnt allowed in high
1- too many neutrals : you will have no idea when to safe up if you are in a war dec . as anyone can hot drop you .
2 - safety in moving expensive loots : you could use a covert industral to move a **** ton of plexes safely .
undock warp to instant undock warp , warp to black op in a safe spot or a tower .
get bridged . warp to instant dock and dock .
you moved a **** ton of isk with less than 0.00000000001% risk.
Sounds very logical...
A Family that incest together, stays together
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Arden Elenduil
Laurus Manus Concordia Incorporated II
337
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Posted - 2015.03.04 11:38:25 -
[39] - Quote
and you couldn't do this before in a blockade runner anyhow? I mean, it's not like they have unscannable cargo holds....oh wait |
Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
37
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Posted - 2015.03.04 14:24:10 -
[40] - Quote
Bump.
Please make this happen. I don't think it would be game breaking in anyways and may even fix a lot of the complaints people have about high sec war decs.
Member of #tweetfleet @stalence //
Combat FRAPs on YouTube
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Alexa Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
9
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Posted - 2015.03.04 14:58:17 -
[41] - Quote
Stalence wrote:Bump.
Please make this happen. I don't think it would be game breaking in anyways and may even fix a lot of the complaints people have about high sec war decs.
Can you clarify why covert cyno in high sec would fix some of the high sec war dec complaints please. I'm just interested of in the reasons and insights.
A Family that incest together, stays together
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
227
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Posted - 2015.03.04 15:05:29 -
[42] - Quote
Alexa Stryker wrote:Stalence wrote:Bump.
Please make this happen. I don't think it would be game breaking in anyways and may even fix a lot of the complaints people have about high sec war decs. Can you clarify why covert cyno in high sec would fix some of the high sec war dec complaints please. I'm just interested of in the reasons and insights.
Can your not undock from station because wardeccers have you camped in? we have just the solution for you.
Call 1800-blops-drops-4-u
maybe a new profession huh wardeccer blop drops, pay as you go 1 off service :)
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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jurgen b
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2015.03.04 15:10:55 -
[43] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:your kidding right? that would be to much like common sense, after all its a COVERT cyno, designed not to be detected, ofc it can be blocked, to protect the highsec carebears. On a serious note, i've always wondered why you cant light it in highsec, it would give us a way of actually smuggling stuff, and as someone said before, its not exactly cheap, plus it promotes teamwork as it requires two people, and if not teamwork, its requires an alt, which is more money for CCP, everyone wins.
why more moneyzzz from alts, we all have already many alts, we just use the same alts we use already now to do something aside fast and go back to what we already been doing with them |
Agent Known
Night Theifs DamnedNation
33
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Posted - 2015.03.04 15:14:50 -
[44] - Quote
If covert cynos were allowed in high-sec, we'd quickly get people complaining about being dropped by a neutral alt while they were flying around in something that can't escape fast enough. Not that you should be flying a BS unguarded when you're under a wardec anyway. I mean, you wouldn't do that in low/null either. |
Alexa Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
9
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Posted - 2015.03.04 15:23:09 -
[45] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Alexa Stryker wrote:Stalence wrote:Bump.
Please make this happen. I don't think it would be game breaking in anyways and may even fix a lot of the complaints people have about high sec war decs. Can you clarify why covert cyno in high sec would fix some of the high sec war dec complaints please. I'm just interested of in the reasons and insights. Can your not undock from station because wardeccers have you camped in? we have just the solution for you. Call 1800-blops-drops-4-u maybe a new profession huh wardeccer blop drops, pay as you go 1 off service :)
Interesting... But the wardecers can still dock though.
A Family that incest together, stays together
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
227
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Posted - 2015.03.04 15:24:49 -
[46] - Quote
Alexa Stryker wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Alexa Stryker wrote:Stalence wrote:Bump.
Please make this happen. I don't think it would be game breaking in anyways and may even fix a lot of the complaints people have about high sec war decs. Can you clarify why covert cyno in high sec would fix some of the high sec war dec complaints please. I'm just interested of in the reasons and insights. Can your not undock from station because wardeccers have you camped in? we have just the solution for you. Call 1800-blops-drops-4-u maybe a new profession huh wardeccer blop drops, pay as you go 1 off service :) Interesting... But the wardecers can still dock though.
then the blops have fulfilled there purpose and the client can undock and get to safety. only real flaw is the assist on war because the blops would need to also be at war with the wardeccers
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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Alexa Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
9
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Posted - 2015.03.04 15:28:43 -
[47] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Alexa Stryker wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Alexa Stryker wrote:Stalence wrote:Bump.
Please make this happen. I don't think it would be game breaking in anyways and may even fix a lot of the complaints people have about high sec war decs. Can you clarify why covert cyno in high sec would fix some of the high sec war dec complaints please. I'm just interested of in the reasons and insights. Can your not undock from station because wardeccers have you camped in? we have just the solution for you. Call 1800-blops-drops-4-u maybe a new profession huh wardeccer blop drops, pay as you go 1 off service :) Interesting... But the wardecers can still dock though. then the blops have fulfilled there purpose and the client can undock and get to safety. only real flaw is the assist on war because the blops would need to also be at war with the wardeccers
We need a temporary war dec system for war dec assistance
Edit: I meant a temporary war dec assistance system..where you can temporarily assist someone on his war dec... for an hour or two
A Family that incest together, stays together
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Jane Shapperd
SUPERFLUOUS WANDERLUST Gentlemen's.Club
124
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Posted - 2015.03.04 16:47:35 -
[48] - Quote
Arden Elenduil wrote:and you couldn't do this before in a blockade runner anyhow? I mean, it's not like they have unscannable cargo holds....oh wait
i got my blockade runner ganked twice and it was empty main reason cause they cant scan it but they know it may have something expenssive
you may wonder how i got ganked : insta lock loki to prevent me from clock and then got pointed by vexor with long bossted point , engaged sentries and bam
also currently u cant bridge directly to high which mean you would bridge to low and take the gate to high and you could get smart bombed as u land on the gate so there is risk , and after that u will jump a number of high sec jumps to reach ur desto so there is still risk |
Vyl Vit
1071
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Posted - 2015.03.04 17:23:09 -
[49] - Quote
Alexei Stryker wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:What would be the point? Is there a logical reason to subvert high sec into homogenious sec to make a handful of players who think they're game designing geniuses happy? Your reasoning is not logical at all. Maybe CCP Falcon could enlighten us? Aliens maybe? I love empty accusations. Pok's point makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to why it is "not logical at all." I'd hate to think you're intellectually dishonest and dismissive of people deserving of respect.
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
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Serene Repose
2328
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Posted - 2015.03.04 17:24:57 -
[50] - Quote
While we're letting gankers use covert cynos in hi sec, why don't we get rid of that pesky training time as well so I can insta-learn all these skills out here in front of me? These game mechanics are intentionally designed to hamper my play style!
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Alexa Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
9
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Posted - 2015.03.04 17:47:42 -
[51] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:Alexei Stryker wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:What would be the point? Is there a logical reason to subvert high sec into homogenious sec to make a handful of players who think they're game designing geniuses happy? Your reasoning is not logical at all. Maybe CCP Falcon could enlighten us? Aliens maybe? I love empty accusations. Pok's point makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to why it is "not logical at all." I'd hate to think you're intellectually dishonest and dismissive of people deserving of respect.
He is answering a question with a question and accusing people of thinking they are game design geniuses.
A Family that incest together, stays together
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Alexa Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
9
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Posted - 2015.03.04 17:49:37 -
[52] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:While we're letting gankers use covert cynos in hi sec, why don't we get rid of that pesky training time as well so I can insta-learn all these skills out here in front of me? These game mechanics are intentionally designed to hamper my play style!
I haven't seen any gankers using bombers or recons to gank.
A Family that incest together, stays together
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Tiberian Deci
Sleeper Slumber Party Test Alliance Please Ignore
116
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Posted - 2015.03.04 17:59:40 -
[53] - Quote
I would love to drop on Marmite camping the Jita undock. dem ~kbstats~ would go down quick.
In all seriousness though I think covert cynos in HS would be good. You probably won't suicide gank in anything that can take a covert cyno, it would open up new tactics fighting hs griefers, and would still keep capitals out. |
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
289
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Posted - 2015.03.04 19:28:12 -
[54] - Quote
Alexa Stryker wrote:Jane Shapperd wrote:i see 2 reasons why covert cyno isnt allowed in high
1- too many neutrals : you will have no idea when to safe up if you are in a war dec . as anyone can hot drop you .
2 - safety in moving expensive loots : you could use a covert industral to move a **** ton of plexes safely .
undock warp to instant undock warp , warp to black op in a safe spot or a tower .
get bridged . warp to instant dock and dock .
you moved a **** ton of isk with less than 0.00000000001% risk. Sounds very logical...
Of course if I was moving a '**** ton of plexes' in a blockade runner you wouldn't know it anyway. They are immune to cargo scanners, they warp cloaked and only get ganked using spy meta. The truth is, there is no reason to have covert cyno's in HS because there is no reason not to. |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
229
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Posted - 2015.03.04 19:51:57 -
[55] - Quote
Jane Shapperd wrote:i see 2 reasons why covert cyno isnt allowed in high
1- too many neutrals : you will have no idea when to safe up if you are in a war dec . as anyone can hot drop you .
2 - safety in moving expensive loots : you could use a covert industral to move a **** ton of plexes safely .
undock warp to instant undock warp , warp to black op in a safe spot or a tower .
get bridged . warp to instant dock and dock .
you moved a **** ton of isk with less than 0.00000000001% risk.
and what risk are presented to gankers when they gank a freighter with no defences? there is no risk for a ganker bumping a freighter off a gate with a neutral bumper then usin throw-away ships to kill it then collect all the loot, so gankers make **** ton of isk with 0.000000001% risk
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
290
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Posted - 2015.03.04 20:14:51 -
[56] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Jane Shapperd wrote:i see 2 reasons why covert cyno isnt allowed in high
1- too many neutrals : you will have no idea when to safe up if you are in a war dec . as anyone can hot drop you .
2 - safety in moving expensive loots : you could use a covert industral to move a **** ton of plexes safely .
undock warp to instant undock warp , warp to black op in a safe spot or a tower .
get bridged . warp to instant dock and dock .
you moved a **** ton of isk with less than 0.00000000001% risk. and what risk are presented to gankers when they gank a freighter with no defences? there is no risk for a ganker bumping a freighter off a gate with a neutral bumper then usin throw-away ships to kill it then collect all the loot, so gankers make **** ton of isk with 0.000000001% risk
In addition, they scanned his cargo 4 jumps earlier so they know exactly how much hull to invest in the venture and make gains, they knew with 100% certainty he would be passing through the Uedama cow pasture because it's impossible not to. If people only knew just how screwed they really were when making that run, it would never get used. |
Jane Shapperd
SUPERFLUOUS WANDERLUST Gentlemen's.Club
124
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Posted - 2015.03.04 20:18:36 -
[57] - Quote
Sisohiv wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Jane Shapperd wrote:i see 2 reasons why covert cyno isnt allowed in high
1- too many neutrals : you will have no idea when to safe up if you are in a war dec . as anyone can hot drop you .
2 - safety in moving expensive loots : you could use a covert industral to move a **** ton of plexes safely .
undock warp to instant undock warp , warp to black op in a safe spot or a tower .
get bridged . warp to instant dock and dock .
you moved a **** ton of isk with less than 0.00000000001% risk. and what risk are presented to gankers when they gank a freighter with no defences? there is no risk for a ganker bumping a freighter off a gate with a neutral bumper then usin throw-away ships to kill it then collect all the loot, so gankers make **** ton of isk with 0.000000001% risk In addition, they scanned his cargo 4 jumps earlier so they know exactly how much hull to invest in the venture and make gains, they knew with 100% certainty he would be passing through the Uedama cow pasture because it's impossible not to. If people only knew just how screwed they really were when making that run, it would never get used.
i am against the idea of using covert cynos in high sec to escape ganks, if u want ur ship safe find a different route don't go trhu ganking systems .
after all u are the one who is moving ur expensive **** not them |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
230
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Posted - 2015.03.04 20:25:13 -
[58] - Quote
i mean it doesnt matter what the cyno is for you cant base an argument to say people can move isk with 0 risk where the other party has 0 risk to make the isk, scanning a ship is not risk and investing 300mil to gain 5bil is not risk either, a freighter has more risks involved but isnt avoiding a system just the same as using a cyno to skip the system?
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6343
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Posted - 2015.03.04 20:35:44 -
[59] - Quote
Jane Shapperd wrote:Sisohiv wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Jane Shapperd wrote:i see 2 reasons why covert cyno isnt allowed in high
1- too many neutrals : you will have no idea when to safe up if you are in a war dec . as anyone can hot drop you .
2 - safety in moving expensive loots : you could use a covert industral to move a **** ton of plexes safely .
undock warp to instant undock warp , warp to black op in a safe spot or a tower .
get bridged . warp to instant dock and dock .
you moved a **** ton of isk with less than 0.00000000001% risk. and what risk are presented to gankers when they gank a freighter with no defences? there is no risk for a ganker bumping a freighter off a gate with a neutral bumper then usin throw-away ships to kill it then collect all the loot, so gankers make **** ton of isk with 0.000000001% risk In addition, they scanned his cargo 4 jumps earlier so they know exactly how much hull to invest in the venture and make gains, they knew with 100% certainty he would be passing through the Uedama cow pasture because it's impossible not to. If people only knew just how screwed they really were when making that run, it would never get used. i am against the idea of using covert cynos in high sec to escape ganks, if u want ur ship safe find a different route don't go trhu ganking systems . after all u are the one who is moving ur expensive **** not them
Nothing wrong with using them to escape ganks in nullsec though?
Most of the people hunting in highsec are there for the same reason as their prey: it's too easy to get ganked and the hunters who claim that highseccers are all about doing everything in safety, are actually hunting in safety. I saw a mission agro fu ganker Stratios fit last night. Just over 1 billion ISK. He shot the wrong thing and got Concorded and someone posted the link. If that's what the "hurf blurf highsec is not safe!" crowd is flying these days, then let's really talk about who is really at risk and who is avoiding it.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Jane Shapperd
SUPERFLUOUS WANDERLUST Gentlemen's.Club
124
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Posted - 2015.03.04 20:38:48 -
[60] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:i mean it doesnt matter what the cyno is for you cant base an argument to say people can move isk with 0 risk where the other party has 0 risk to make the isk, scanning a ship is not risk and investing 300mil to gain 5bil is not risk either, a freighter has more risks involved but isnt avoiding a system just the same as using a cyno to skip the system?
the first point is true i cant make that argument but that's an issue with the ganking system , not the covert cynos .
using a covert cyno isn't like a skipping system because u could skip multiple system at once via covert cyno while avoiding system will force you to take a longer route . |
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