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Lictas Alice
The Men Who Sold Worlds
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 19:58:50 -
[1] - Quote
Hi guys .
I'm somewhat confused with the EULA about spamming. Spamming chat channels isn't allowed , but what does CCP consider as spam? If you advertise a contract 5 times in 1 min , is that spam? What about once every 40-60 seconds for a hour? At nearly every trade hub there is players 'spamming' contracts , isk doubling and other scams all day every.Does CCP only warn/ban spammers when a player gets a certain amount of reports , rather then sending too many messages per min/hour?
I would really like some clarification. Cheers |
Celine Sophia Maricadie
Tal-Cel Industry and Salvage LLC
418
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 20:41:52 -
[2] - Quote
Spam is in the eye of the beholder.
Given some of the examples you've given if they are occurring that often you have a couple of choices. The scammers are easy to identify so you can just block them. One thing I notice is that in the trade hubs the scammers and such don't post "5 times a row in 1 min", but the post every few minutes. And that just gets mixed in with everyone else's scam posts, so in all, it can seem excessive.
If you feel someone is spamming then open a support ticket and let the GM's handle it. It's not really for us to worry about interpreting the EULA with regards to spam, but I think we all know what is excessive, and you have the right to open a support ticket if you feel it's excessive and should be addressed.
The GMs can review the logs and they're trained and I imagine have some very good guidelines on what crosses the line when it comes to spamming.
Most people, however, tend to block, to keep local clear.
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Lictas Alice
The Men Who Sold Worlds
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 20:52:46 -
[3] - Quote
Celine Sophia Maricadie wrote:Spam is in the eye of the beholder.
Given some of the examples you've given if they are occurring that often you have a couple of choices. The scammers are easy to identify so you can just block them. One thing I notice is that in the trade hubs the scammers and such don't post "5 times a row in 1 min", but the post every few minutes. And that just gets mixed in with everyone else's scam posts, so in all, it can seem excessive.
If you feel someone is spamming then open a support ticket and let the GM's handle it. It's not really for us to worry about interpreting the EULA with regards to spam, but I think we all know what is excessive, and you have the right to open a support ticket if you feel it's excessive and should be addressed.
The GMs can review the logs and they're trained and I imagine have some very good guidelines on what crosses the line when it comes to spamming.
Most people, however, tend to block, to keep local clear.
Ok , So you can just block spammers, So why is it against the EULA? You can press one button , and boom , no more spam. Secondly, Why can't they release those guidelines so people know what CCP's definition of spam is. I don't know why CCP is so vague on certain things.
If you want people too abide by the EULA , then you really need a clear EULA.....
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5914
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 20:56:51 -
[4] - Quote
We are not the ones who can and are allowed to judge how the EULA is enforced.
The one and only entity that can and is allowed to do that is CCP.
And it is a known fact that in a lot of the rules (with the exception of a couple of very clear ones like 'NO RMT') are in a grey area. This is so CCP can enforce rules on a case by case situation?
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Lictas Alice
The Men Who Sold Worlds
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 21:11:48 -
[5] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:We are not the ones who can and are allowed to judge how the EULA is enforced.
The one and only entity that can and is allowed to do that is CCP.
And it is a known fact that in a lot of the rules (with the exception of a couple of very clear ones like 'NO RMT') are in a grey area. This is so CCP can enforce rules on a case by case situation?
Again , how are you meant to follow rules which are in a grey area? If CCP GM's have too make a decision on these matters , they must have guidelines. If they don't have guidelines , that means if GM A receives a petition against you , you might not get a warning were as if GM B does you probably will .Which means theirs no consistency with GM decisions regarding breaches of the EULA. So how can people be expected too follow the EULA/ report offenders without clear guidelines of what constitutes as spam?
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5915
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 21:28:05 -
[6] - Quote
Lictas Alice wrote:J'Poll wrote:We are not the ones who can and are allowed to judge how the EULA is enforced.
The one and only entity that can and is allowed to do that is CCP.
And it is a known fact that in a lot of the rules (with the exception of a couple of very clear ones like 'NO RMT') are in a grey area. This is so CCP can enforce rules on a case by case situation? Again , how are you meant to follow rules which are in a grey area? If CCP GM's have too make a decision on these matters , they must have guidelines. If they don't have guidelines , that means if GM A receives a petition against you , you might not get a warning were as if GM B does you probably will .Which means theirs no consistency with GM decisions regarding breaches of the EULA. So how can people be expected too follow the EULA/ report offenders without clear guidelines of what constitutes as spam?
Simple because some rules cant be measured black/white
Others are heavily dependant on circumstances
The end result; ONLY the GMs enforce the rules (and they most likely have guidelines they use, but they are confidential), they are also the only ones that will know the ins and outs about it all.
And no they wont put on public what they do as...again, all case are looked at on a case by case situation (and you clearly dont know that doesnt mean that GM A will rule differently in the same case as GM B. But case A can have a different outcome then case B).
Also, the only way a GM will contact a pilot / pilots is through a petition in case of rule violation.
The general advice GMs have posted before many many times: if you think something is illegal, dont do it. If you want clarification, open a petition.
P.S. Any discussion about forum and/or game moderation on the forum is forbidden aswel as disclose any confidential GM <> player talk (aka petitions).
That is one of the clear black/white rules CCP has.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Zoe Athame
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
224
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Posted - 2015.03.05 21:33:06 -
[7] - Quote
Lictas Alice wrote:J'Poll wrote:We are not the ones who can and are allowed to judge how the EULA is enforced.
The one and only entity that can and is allowed to do that is CCP.
And it is a known fact that in a lot of the rules (with the exception of a couple of very clear ones like 'NO RMT') are in a grey area. This is so CCP can enforce rules on a case by case situation? Again , how are you meant to follow rules which are in a grey area? If CCP GM's have too make a decision on these matters , they must have guidelines. If they don't have guidelines , that means if GM A receives a petition against you , you might not get a warning were as if GM B does you probably will .Which means theirs no consistency with GM decisions regarding breaches of the EULA. So how can people be expected too follow the EULA/ report offenders without clear guidelines of what constitutes as spam?
You use common sense. Spamming poetic stanziels blog in local will get you reported. But doing the same thing in corp along with a killmail after you pod him could possibly be fine (depending on the corp.) |
Celine Sophia Maricadie
Tal-Cel Industry and Salvage LLC
420
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 21:34:26 -
[8] - Quote
Lictas Alice wrote:J'Poll wrote:We are not the ones who can and are allowed to judge how the EULA is enforced.
The one and only entity that can and is allowed to do that is CCP.
And it is a known fact that in a lot of the rules (with the exception of a couple of very clear ones like 'NO RMT') are in a grey area. This is so CCP can enforce rules on a case by case situation? Again , how are you meant to follow rules which are in a grey area? If CCP GM's have too make a decision on these matters , they must have guidelines. If they don't have guidelines , that means if GM A receives a petition against you , you might not get a warning were as if GM B does you probably will .Which means theirs no consistency with GM decisions regarding breaches of the EULA. So how can people be expected too follow the EULA/ report offenders without clear guidelines of what constitutes as spam? OP... you're starting to assume much and this is taking on the signs of a rant.
Don't worry yourself if the GMs are inconsistent. They won't be inconsistent. They have their policies and guidelines to follow and each similar case will be handled similarly.
If you feel someone is spamming then you can open a support ticket and the GMs will handle it accordingly. You can also block the spammer.
As to expecting people to follow the EULA where there are grey areas, well, each of us has their own idea of what spam is. If CCP made specifics in the EULA for every bloody situation (x amount of posts per y amount of time = spam) then we'd all be focused on a stupid detail rather than just playing the game.
This is just such low hanging fruit it's really not worth the qq'ing and effort you're putting into this. One might suspect you're an alt who's trying to find a way to ***** about a GM's actions against you... which would be an EULA violation... along with being a forums violation.
If you want to put time and effort into this, then use the support ticket system. If it just bugs you then block the "offender", and if you don't care, don't worry about it.
/End |
Lictas Alice
The Men Who Sold Worlds
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 21:34:54 -
[9] - Quote
Zoe Athame wrote:Lictas Alice wrote:J'Poll wrote:We are not the ones who can and are allowed to judge how the EULA is enforced.
The one and only entity that can and is allowed to do that is CCP.
And it is a known fact that in a lot of the rules (with the exception of a couple of very clear ones like 'NO RMT') are in a grey area. This is so CCP can enforce rules on a case by case situation? Again , how are you meant to follow rules which are in a grey area? If CCP GM's have too make a decision on these matters , they must have guidelines. If they don't have guidelines , that means if GM A receives a petition against you , you might not get a warning were as if GM B does you probably will .Which means theirs no consistency with GM decisions regarding breaches of the EULA. So how can people be expected too follow the EULA/ report offenders without clear guidelines of what constitutes as spam? You use common sense. Spamming poetic stanziels blog in local will get you reported. But doing the same thing in corp along with a killmail after you pod him could possibly be fine (depending on the corp.)
Ah ok , So looking at jita local , one could assume spamming scam contracts is fine , because others do it. That seems like common sense? |
Celine Sophia Maricadie
Tal-Cel Industry and Salvage LLC
424
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 21:41:06 -
[10] - Quote
Lictas Alice wrote:
Ah ok , So looking at jita local , one could assume spamming scam contracts is fine , because others do it. That seems like common sense?
Now you're definitely ranting.
Dude, we've told you, if you feel someone is spamming then you're welcome to open a support ticket and let the GM's deal with it. And if it bugs you that much just block them.
Scam contracts in local are allowed. If you feel the frequency from any one given pilot is spam then report it and don't worry about it.
Just because you don't like the frequency you see scam contracts posting doesn't necessarily make it spamming. Report it if you feel it is.
You won't find a solution or sympathy here.
Edit: Also, you're not a new character/player and not sure that the EVE New Citizens Q&A is the place for this "rant"/"rules" qq'ing. You've asked your question regarding it and you've received consistent and concise answers on how to deal with it.
Move on. |
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Lictas Alice
The Men Who Sold Worlds
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 21:51:25 -
[11] - Quote
Celine Sophia Maricadie wrote:Lictas Alice wrote:
Ah ok , So looking at jita local , one could assume spamming scam contracts is fine , because others do it. That seems like common sense?
Now you're definitely ranting. Dude, we've told you, if you feel someone is spamming then you're welcome to open a support ticket and let the GM's deal with it. And if it bugs you that much just block them. Scam contracts in local are allowed. If you feel the frequency from any one given pilot is spam then report it and don't worry about it. Just because you don't like the frequency you see scam contracts posting doesn't necessarily make it spamming. Report it if you feel it is. You won't find a solution or sympathy here.
How would i know if someones spamming a contract is too much ? So instead of having any clear guidelines , its much better too make a tonne of petitions?I'm asking a legitimate question and you seem too fallback to ad hominem attacks.
I'm not opposed to scam contracts or people spamming contracts in local. There is a mute button for a reason. What i'm unsure of and the reason i created this thread , was too get clarification about the EULA.
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5915
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 21:52:06 -
[12] - Quote
Lictas Alice wrote:Zoe Athame wrote:Lictas Alice wrote:J'Poll wrote:We are not the ones who can and are allowed to judge how the EULA is enforced.
The one and only entity that can and is allowed to do that is CCP.
And it is a known fact that in a lot of the rules (with the exception of a couple of very clear ones like 'NO RMT') are in a grey area. This is so CCP can enforce rules on a case by case situation? Again , how are you meant to follow rules which are in a grey area? If CCP GM's have too make a decision on these matters , they must have guidelines. If they don't have guidelines , that means if GM A receives a petition against you , you might not get a warning were as if GM B does you probably will .Which means theirs no consistency with GM decisions regarding breaches of the EULA. So how can people be expected too follow the EULA/ report offenders without clear guidelines of what constitutes as spam? You use common sense. Spamming poetic stanziels blog in local will get you reported. But doing the same thing in corp along with a killmail after you pod him could possibly be fine (depending on the corp.) Ah ok , So looking at jita local , one could assume spamming scam contracts is fine , because others do it. That seems like common sense?
In EVE where:
* You can just block people. * You can close/minimize chat. * Ignore it. * Scamming is legal.
Yes it is common sense that it is okay.
Dont like it, dont play it (or just avoid trade hubs).
Thread reported for whining/ranting and discussion of GM moderation.
As it is very obvious you are QQing about something stupidly trivial.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5915
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 21:54:33 -
[13] - Quote
OP, I find your posting frequency too fast on the forum. I thus have reported you as you are spamming the forums. You should be punished (by your own logic).
AKA stop your freaking whine.
If this puts sand in your nether regions, boy will you have a fun time in EVE.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Lictas Alice
The Men Who Sold Worlds
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 21:56:07 -
[14] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Lictas Alice wrote:Zoe Athame wrote:Lictas Alice wrote:J'Poll wrote:We are not the ones who can and are allowed to judge how the EULA is enforced.
The one and only entity that can and is allowed to do that is CCP.
And it is a known fact that in a lot of the rules (with the exception of a couple of very clear ones like 'NO RMT') are in a grey area. This is so CCP can enforce rules on a case by case situation? Again , how are you meant to follow rules which are in a grey area? If CCP GM's have too make a decision on these matters , they must have guidelines. If they don't have guidelines , that means if GM A receives a petition against you , you might not get a warning were as if GM B does you probably will .Which means theirs no consistency with GM decisions regarding breaches of the EULA. So how can people be expected too follow the EULA/ report offenders without clear guidelines of what constitutes as spam? You use common sense. Spamming poetic stanziels blog in local will get you reported. But doing the same thing in corp along with a killmail after you pod him could possibly be fine (depending on the corp.) Ah ok , So looking at jita local , one could assume spamming scam contracts is fine , because others do it. That seems like common sense? In EVE where: * You can just block people. * You can close/minimize chat. * Ignore it. * Scamming is legal. Yes it is common sense that it is okay. Dont like it, dont play it (or just avoid trade hubs). Thread reported for whining/ranting and discussion of GM moderation. As it is very obvious you are QQing about something stupidly trivial.
I'm not raging or complaining , I'm asking questions which you aren't answering. Somewhat ironic that you point out you can just block people / minimize chat/ignore it/ regarding spam , yet you can't do the same with this thread instead you resort to 'reported'. If you report a thread , hey that's fine . Why do you feel the need too tell people? |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5916
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 21:57:35 -
[15] - Quote
Lictas Alice wrote:Celine Sophia Maricadie wrote:Lictas Alice wrote:
Ah ok , So looking at jita local , one could assume spamming scam contracts is fine , because others do it. That seems like common sense?
Now you're definitely ranting. Dude, we've told you, if you feel someone is spamming then you're welcome to open a support ticket and let the GM's deal with it. And if it bugs you that much just block them. Scam contracts in local are allowed. If you feel the frequency from any one given pilot is spam then report it and don't worry about it. Just because you don't like the frequency you see scam contracts posting doesn't necessarily make it spamming. Report it if you feel it is. You won't find a solution or sympathy here. How would i know if someones spamming a contract is too much ? So instead of having any clear guidelines , its much better too make a tonne of petitions?I'm asking a legitimate question and you seem too fallback to ad hominem attacks. I'm not opposed to scam contracts or people spamming contracts in local. There is a mute button for a reason. What i'm unsure of and the reason i created this thread , was too get clarification about the EULA.
Which we gave you:
They are enforced by the GMs, on a case by case situation. Simple as that... You report, GM judges and execute... done.
Is it that hard to read it. Do we have to draw it out?
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Celine Sophia Maricadie
Tal-Cel Industry and Salvage LLC
426
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 22:03:14 -
[16] - Quote
Lictas Alice wrote:Celine Sophia Maricadie wrote:Lictas Alice wrote:
Ah ok , So looking at jita local , one could assume spamming scam contracts is fine , because others do it. That seems like common sense?
Now you're definitely ranting. Dude, we've told you, if you feel someone is spamming then you're welcome to open a support ticket and let the GM's deal with it. And if it bugs you that much just block them. Scam contracts in local are allowed. If you feel the frequency from any one given pilot is spam then report it and don't worry about it. Just because you don't like the frequency you see scam contracts posting doesn't necessarily make it spamming. Report it if you feel it is. You won't find a solution or sympathy here. How would i know if someones spamming a contract is too much ? So instead of having any clear guidelines , its much better too make a tonne of petitions?I'm asking a legitimate question and you seem too fallback to ad hominem attacks. I'm not opposed to scam contracts or people spamming contracts in local. There is a mute button for a reason. What i'm unsure of and the reason i created this thread , was too get clarification about the EULA. You keep asking "what is too much" if you think it's spamming. We keep giving you good and correct answers.
You've been given a concise answer. Common sense. If YOU feel it's spam then report it. If you feel it may not be spam but don't like it, block/mute them.
My first response told you that what is considered spam is really up to you, in other words, in the eye of the beholder. You're not going to get a specific definition.
And I'm not attacking you. You keep asking the same question about a low-level non-problem. We keep giving you the answers.
What is so difficult in what we've given you? You're not going to get that black and white magical answer you're digging for. That's up to CCP and their GM's to determine on a case-by-case basis.
I'm done here. |
Lictas Alice
The Men Who Sold Worlds
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 22:05:32 -
[17] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Lictas Alice wrote:Celine Sophia Maricadie wrote:Lictas Alice wrote:
Ah ok , So looking at jita local , one could assume spamming scam contracts is fine , because others do it. That seems like common sense?
Now you're definitely ranting. Dude, we've told you, if you feel someone is spamming then you're welcome to open a support ticket and let the GM's deal with it. And if it bugs you that much just block them. Scam contracts in local are allowed. If you feel the frequency from any one given pilot is spam then report it and don't worry about it. Just because you don't like the frequency you see scam contracts posting doesn't necessarily make it spamming. Report it if you feel it is. You won't find a solution or sympathy here. How would i know if someones spamming a contract is too much ? So instead of having any clear guidelines , its much better too make a tonne of petitions?I'm asking a legitimate question and you seem too fallback to ad hominem attacks. I'm not opposed to scam contracts or people spamming contracts in local. There is a mute button for a reason. What i'm unsure of and the reason i created this thread , was too get clarification about the EULA. Which we gave you: They are enforced by the GMs, on a case by case situation. Is it that hard to read it. Do we have to draw it out?
Why are you making this personal? Are you an alt of someone that dislikes me or something? If you have nothing too contribute other than 'its enforced by the GMs ' stop replying please.
I asked for clarification regarding spam.
How can you abide by a rule , you don't understand?I
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5917
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 22:10:49 -
[18] - Quote
As OP wants a B/W answer:
OVER 9000 posts / minute = Spam.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
336
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 22:25:12 -
[19] - Quote
Lictas Alice wrote:Hi guys .
I'm somewhat confused with the EULA about spamming. Spamming chat channels isn't allowed , but what does CCP consider as spam? If you advertise a contract 5 times in 1 min , is that spam? What about once every 40-60 seconds for a hour? At nearly every trade hub there is players 'spamming' contracts , isk doubling and other scams all day every.Does CCP only warn/ban spammers when a player gets a certain amount of reports , rather then sending too many messages per min/hour?
I would really like some clarification. Cheers
You won't see any clarification on the forums about local chat spam as I have never seen a GM ruling on that posted on the forums. So F12 petition is your only answer on that.
OTOH there has been a GM ruling posted to the forums about EVE-mail spam and how to report it. That is not what you asked about but if you are interested I can probably dig up a link. |
Lictas Alice
The Men Who Sold Worlds
14
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 22:33:13 -
[20] - Quote
voetius wrote:Lictas Alice wrote:Hi guys .
I'm somewhat confused with the EULA about spamming. Spamming chat channels isn't allowed , but what does CCP consider as spam? If you advertise a contract 5 times in 1 min , is that spam? What about once every 40-60 seconds for a hour? At nearly every trade hub there is players 'spamming' contracts , isk doubling and other scams all day every.Does CCP only warn/ban spammers when a player gets a certain amount of reports , rather then sending too many messages per min/hour?
I would really like some clarification. Cheers You won't see any clarification on the forums about local chat spam as I have never seen a GM ruling on that posted on the forums. So F12 petition is your only answer on that. OTOH there has been a GM ruling posted to the forums about EVE-mail spam and how to report it. That is not what you asked about but if you are interested I can probably dig up a link.
I know how to report spam but thank you. I was looking for an answer which doesn't exist ( i google'd and searched the forums with nothing useful coming up ) So i thought i'd create a thread. I was hoping that a GM had given a response about this and i overlooked it or maybe others would be interested to know the answer.
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5917
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 22:37:01 -
[21] - Quote
In general:
You will hardly ever see a GM explain exact rule policy on the forums, unless it is something major or when some mechanic is deemed an exploit from that time on (last I can recall is the whole "AP warp to zero" exploit).
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4651
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 22:38:01 -
[22] - Quote
The few times when I posted buy or sell ads, I've limited myself to one message roughly every 5 minutes.
I also try to randomize the posting time so I look less like a simple messaging bot to the report-happy observer.
I've never had a GM notify me of spamming. I try to stay FAR from any potential grey area.
Note that some channels are less tolerant than others. Example: ads at a Jita local rate in the quieter BPO trade channel will undoubtedly be reported by many players as excessive. As people enter-and-leave local channels when they change systems, it makes sense to me that non-local persistent channels would have less tolerance. |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4350
|
Posted - 2015.03.05 23:16:48 -
[23] - Quote
If you want to know if something is spam, ask via petition. Asking on the forums will not be answered. Thanks!
Quote:Forum rules5. Trolling is prohibited.Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. 13. Spamming is prohibited.Spam is defined as the repetitive posting of the same topic or nonsensical post that has no substance and is often designed to annoy other forum users. This can include the words GÇ£firstGÇ¥, GÇ£go back to insert other game nameGÇ¥ and other such posts that contribute no value to forum discussion. Spamming also includes the posting of ASCII art within a forum post, or the practice of GÇ£thread necromancyGÇ¥ which involved bumping of old threads for no justifiable reason. Thread closed.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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