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Kalo Askold
Sanguis Inceptum
5
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Posted - 2015.03.26 17:18:52 -
[181] - Quote
PIE offering a lot of lip service with doing the very least for those they seem to want to help. Keep the slaves only for the lords who are just as bad as many capsuleers, sometimes worse.
Not Signed
The Amarr have no legitimacy in slave affairs and should not be given good attention when it's obvious they do not care about religious teachings. If they did Vitoxin would not be used and be banned, and slaves taught strict doctrines instead of being reduced to a child like state as they move planetary resources.
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Liam Antolliere
University of Caille Gallente Federation
253
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Posted - 2015.03.26 18:30:35 -
[182] - Quote
After careful consideration, I will add my signature in support to this notion.
While I oppose the practice of slavery on principle, I believe the regulation of the practice so it is restricted to the administration of those individuals who are qualified to oversee their instruction and edification under the guidelines and mandates of the governing entity which institutes the practice in the first place is far more preferable than the free access to slaves allowing the abuse and outright ignominy afforded to these individuals by those with less investment in their proper care.
....now I need a strong drink to wash this bitter aftertaste away.
Se il vous pla+«t pardonnez-moi.
"Let it never be said that I have not been true to myself and, in so doing, true to those around me."
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Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
3
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Posted - 2015.03.26 21:16:16 -
[183] - Quote
I would like to clarify something temporarily. My disregard for this Petition is not me supporting slavery, but however I hope to continue the expand the influence of Capsuleers within Imperial society, especially the ones that fight for the Empire. While we do not risk our lives (we are immortal), we risk something sometimes considered far greater, our banks. Basically, I am not disregarding this in support for slavery, yet to influence Capsuleer's rights (in fact I support Intaki Liberation from the Gallente Federation and am making bold moves to support the Intaki Home-System as a Trade Hub.
We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.
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Nishachara
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
28
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Posted - 2015.04.01 11:41:14 -
[184] - Quote
Signed . |
Benedicta Secheh
Little Sisters of the Most Holy Sword
25
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Posted - 2015.04.16 22:56:36 -
[185] - Quote
Signed. Only Holders or duly authorized custodians should be permitted to acquire slaves from Imperial entities. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7944
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Posted - 2015.04.17 08:48:13 -
[186] - Quote
Signed.
Technical Support
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Mensha Khael Crow
House Murder
104
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Posted - 2015.04.17 11:14:40 -
[187] - Quote
Signed.
Mensha Khael Crow Capsuleer House Murder
Our righteousness is evident in the failures of the heathen,-áGod keep us from-áfalling-áprey to their weaknesses.
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Sahriah BloodStone
Hunter Killers. Forsaken Asylum
67
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Posted - 2015.04.17 17:06:53 -
[188] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:
My opinion is congruent with that of Admiral Blake on this matter.
No blanket bans. Merely introduce proper checks and balances.
Not Signed
The premise here is that only Amarrians have some imaginary right to own slaves. Just because you started doing it first, does not take away the right of anybody else to participate.
That being said i would be in support of proper background checks and regulations to ensure the industry is maintained properly.
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Isaiah Bishop
0
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Posted - 2015.04.17 17:28:37 -
[189] - Quote
Signed.
Not for the reasons stated by those who generated the petition -- but that is irrelevant. |
Lorelei Maeve
LeiTech Industries
43
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Posted - 2015.04.18 22:11:35 -
[190] - Quote
Liam Antolliere wrote:After careful consideration, I will add my signature in support to this notion.
While I oppose the practice of slavery on principle, I believe the regulation of the practice so it is restricted to the administration of those individuals who are qualified to oversee their instruction and edification under the guidelines and mandates of the governing entity which institutes the practice in the first place is far more preferable than the free access to slaves allowing the abuse and outright ignominy afforded to these individuals by those with less investment in their proper care.
....now I need a strong drink to wash this bitter aftertaste away.
S'il vous pla+«t pardonnez-moi.
Out of curiosity, what makes you think the people in question treat them any better or are more qualified to own them?
When one has weighed the sun in the balance, and measured the steps of the moon, and mapped out the seven heavens, there still remains oneself. Who can calculate the orbit of his own soul?
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Winter Archipelago
Furtherance.
367
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Posted - 2015.05.01 16:41:25 -
[191] - Quote
Hmph. I definitely do not sign.
Crew are far too expensive, especially when they know they'll be going into a wormhole, where surviving a ship's destruction is often a worse fate than dying with it.
A few hundred slaves and the necessary Vitoc and antidote are far cheaper, even when the slaves have been through the rigorous training necessary for use on Capsuleer ships, than trying to replace more worthwhile crews.
I would also add that the use of slaves greatly reduces the risk of some planet-dweller or station-walker from getting the notion in their head for revenge. The first few assassination attempts may have been humorous, but after that, it just becomes a nuisance.
Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections.
Once you've made your choice, join the channels EVE-Scout or Furtherance Public and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1442
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Posted - 2015.05.01 17:23:38 -
[192] - Quote
You are a Gallente capsuleer. You are not a Holder. You have no right to own slaves. The fact that someone like you is able to acquire them is exactly why this measure exists.
"Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away."
-- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
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Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
77
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Posted - 2015.05.01 17:48:36 -
[193] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:You are a Gallente capsuleer. You are not a Holder. You have no right to own slaves. The fact that someone like you is able to acquire them is exactly why this measure exists.
Point of Order Miss Kernher. If you want to limit the sale of slaves within Amarr, that's fine. Khanid has different laws. Everywhere else has different laws. Some oppose the sale, some do not. Others simply don't care. Be he Gallente or Theran, I'm fairly certain the Empire is in no position to dictate to him what his "rights" are.
Now if Mssr. Archipelago is in the market, I have a fine assortment at the moment at popular prices...
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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ValentinaDLM
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
641
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Posted - 2015.05.01 17:48:51 -
[194] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:You are a Gallente capsuleer. You are not a Holder. You have no right to own slaves. The fact that someone like you is able to acquire them is exactly why this measure exists.
No one ought to have that "right" but, even if the Amarrians actually enforced a holders only policy it wouldn't stop for example the Angel Cartel so, this has no power to stop this Gallentean capsuleer from getting and abusing slaves. |
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
348
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Posted - 2015.05.01 17:51:23 -
[195] - Quote
Now that the cluster-wide News Services have picked up on this Petition according to its mention in today's Scope News "running cable", I have more hopes that it might be considered seriously.
Again, I urge those who - after careful consideration have reviewed what the Bishop proposes - agree, to sign. |
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
955
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Posted - 2015.05.01 18:11:35 -
[196] - Quote
The purpose of this petition was actually addressed to the SCC markets, not the Amarr Empire, the Khanid Kingdom, or other sovereign - or less sovereign - entities. The presence of slaves unregulated on the SCC markets was the issue at hand. It was not about regulation of the slave trade inside those entities, but regulation on the SCC market.
If I understood correctly, of course...
After careful consideration past those last months, I would like to add my signature on that petition, and feel that since slaves are prohibited in every empire but the Amarr Empire, added to the fact that capsuleers have no legal right from the Amarr Empire itself to deal in slave trading, then it becomes clear that the presence of slaves on said markets only creates problems.
If some capsuleers also holding any slaver or holder title are interested in the slave trade, they should pass through proper means, which are channels internal to the Empire or the Kingdom themselves. They are able to buy or sell slaves by Amarr or Khanid law, and not SCC law, and so should be restrained by those laws instead of SCC laws. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
4763
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Posted - 2015.05.01 18:35:22 -
[197] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:Hmph. I definitely do not sign.
Crew are far too expensive, especially when they know they'll be going into a wormhole, where surviving a ship's destruction is often a worse fate than dying with it.
A few hundred slaves and the necessary Vitoc and antidote are far cheaper, even when the slaves have been through the rigorous training necessary for use on Capsuleer ships, than trying to replace more worthwhile crews.
I would also add that the use of slaves greatly reduces the risk of some planet-dweller or station-walker from getting the notion in their head for revenge. The first few assassination attempts may have been humorous, but after that, it just becomes a nuisance.
I never have a problem getting volunteers. Perhaps it's a problem of charisma?
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Cakzad Arcashiri
Arcashiri Family
65
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Posted - 2015.05.01 18:36:04 -
[198] - Quote
Signed.
As dictated by Amarrian Law and the Scriptures, only Holders and other figures authorized by the Emperor or Empress or the Theology Council may own and trade slaves.
I delivered a lecture upon leaving the Amarr Royal Institute concerning this anomaly created by the SCC, CONCORD, and the Empire. In my point of view this is allowed due to the fact that the Capsuleers hate us.
I will not go into a full on lecture, but basically this is heresy and should've been acted on by the Amarrian Goverment by now. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1446
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Posted - 2015.05.01 19:03:03 -
[199] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:You are a Gallente capsuleer. You are not a Holder. You have no right to own slaves. The fact that someone like you is able to acquire them is exactly why this measure exists. Point of Order Miss Kernher. If you want to limit the sale of slaves within Amarr, that's fine. Khanid has different laws. Everywhere else has different laws. Some oppose the sale, some do not. Others simply don't care. Be he Gallente or Theran, I'm fairly certain the Empire is in no position to dictate to him what his "rights" are. Now if Mssr. Archipelago is in the market, I have a fine assortment at the moment at popular prices...
God is in the position to dictate that right, and He has dictated through Scripture that that right is given exclusively to Holders.
It is heresy and a crime against God for anyone that is not a Holder to own slaves.
"Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away."
-- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
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Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
178
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Posted - 2015.05.01 19:12:21 -
[200] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:The purpose of this petition was actually addressed to the SCC markets, not the Amarr Empire, the Khanid Kingdom, or other sovereign - or less sovereign - entities. The presence of slaves unregulated on the SCC markets was the issue at hand. It was not about regulation of the slave trade inside those entities, but regulation on the SCC market.
If I understood correctly, of course...
After careful consideration past those last months, I would like to add my signature on that petition, and feel that since slaves are prohibited in every empire but the Amarr Empire and Khanid Kingdom, added to the fact that capsuleers have no legal right from the Amarr Empire itself to deal in slave trading, then it becomes clear that the presence of slaves on said markets only creates problems.
If some capsuleers also holding any slaver or holder title are interested in the slave trade, they should pass through proper means, which are channels internal to the Empire or the Kingdom themselves. They are able to buy or sell slaves by Amarr or Khanid law, and not SCC law, and so should be restrained by those laws instead of SCC laws.
In short... that means that it should remain a baseliner issue and only a baseliner issue. Or, if for some reason slaves have to be authorized to capsuleer market through the SCC, then those markets and those of the empires should be kept separated. Was it really Mrs Farel?
Alizebeth Amalath wrote: ...Changing the policy of the Imperial and Khanid institutions that sell slaves on the SCC market is a much more attainable and specific goal....
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:This is not directed at the SCC. This is directed to the Civic Court, Khanid Transport and the Ammatar Consulate. These are three Imperial/Kingdom agencies operating in sovereign Imperial/Kingdom space. This is a purely internal affair and has no bearing on the wider SCC markets or operations.
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:Samira is correct. This is in relation to the Greater Amarrian organizations. I personally would not be upset if all slaves were removed from the SCC market, but that is not what this is about. |
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
957
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Posted - 2015.05.01 20:09:11 -
[201] - Quote
Oh... right. After so many months thinking about it, I eventually mixed up both... That is embarrassing...
In any case, that does not change my reasoning, although I would prefer to see the SCC directly barring the access to slaves as commodities since it would obviously prove to be a lot less efforts to act on the other side where there is only one entity (the SCC) instead of millions of independent traders (Holders, slavers, etc). |
Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
24617
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Posted - 2015.05.02 00:36:33 -
[202] - Quote
It is better for slaves to be listed. How else would other free people buy them and free them? Not listing them on the market would not change the market demand for them one bit. Not listing them would take away access from liberators who would be barred from participating in an underground slave black market.
At least this way the transactions are taxed, with taxes funneled to stations and infrastructure in systems we all use.
6,000 dead, 14,000 injured, 130,000 homes destroyed. PLEX for Good: Nepal Earthquake Relief. USD $15 donated for each PLEX you donate.
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1447
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Posted - 2015.05.02 01:08:37 -
[203] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:It is better for slaves to be listed. How else would other free people buy them and free them? Not listing them on the market would not change the market demand for them one bit. Not listing them would take away access from liberators who would be barred from participating in an underground slave black market.
This is another reason why they shouldn't be listed.
"Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away."
-- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
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Yonis Vudori
University of Ammatar
3
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Posted - 2015.05.02 15:56:10 -
[204] - Quote
Signed. |
Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
79
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Posted - 2015.05.02 16:40:08 -
[205] - Quote
Cakzad Arcashiri wrote: I will not go into a full on lecture, but basically this is heresy and should've been acted on by the Amarrian Goverment by now.
There are a great many heretical things the Amarrian Government should have acted on by now and haven't.
Keep in mind the differences in the laws regarding slave ownership between the Empire proper and the Khanid Kingdom. While non-Minmatar slaves are a minority, they are fully allowed. Including Amarr and Khanid (usually prisoners, people who talk during a holo and other undesirables). I don't see His Majesty allowing those laws to be changed in Khanid any time soon.
I don't think the Empire can have it both ways. You can't tell Group A it is ok to do the thing and tell Group B they can't do the thing without Group B getting bent out of shape over it. Group B then generally does the thing anyway. The scientific term for this process is "human nature." Slavery is an all or nothing issue. Either open the trade wide like the Khanid model or end it completely.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1451
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Posted - 2015.05.02 17:08:42 -
[206] - Quote
Group B in such an instance are heretics and should be punished for their transgressions. The fact that criminals like yourself exist and will break laws is not a reason to remove laws. Laws must be made and enforced, and those who break them must be punished.
The Khanid model rejects God. It rejects the divine right of Holders by allowing those of impure blood to deal in slaves. It is a faithless model that should never be allowed to translate to Amarr. Only Holder families are of proven purity, wisdom, and responsibility to be entrusted with the ownership of slaves. This is as God has decreed through Scripture. Slavery as an institution only works in the Empire, under the traditional laws that have governed it for thousands of years. Any other group that practices it is immoral and corrupt.
And there are non-Minmatar slaves in the Empire, too, Mokk. The Kingdom is not unique in that.
"Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away."
-- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
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Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
132
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Posted - 2015.05.02 18:37:53 -
[207] - Quote
The premise that Her Excellency founds her call to action on is of such a great severity that I am incredibly reluctant to support the proposition, as noble in its aims as it is, without firm evidence. If the Imperial agencies, like the Civic Court, are facilitating the sale of slaves to non-Holder individuals in the absence of the adequate licensing and issuing of Custodial Servitude Contracts then we must accept the existence of gross negligence, or conspiracy to subvert the Faith and Imperial Law, which would involve those at the highest echelons of the government up to, and including, members of the Privy Council. The seriousness of these accusations cannot be overstated or exaggerated.
While those Faithful who have given affirmations of support for the general principle of Her Excellency's statements certainly are right to wish to prohibit the sale of slaves in a manner which violates Imperial Law and the tenets of our Faith I think that they should be mindful that the specifics of this proposal allege serious crimes (of neglectful oversight, intentional unlawful activity, or both) against officials throughout the institutions of government reaching all the way to those that serve our Empress as Her closest and most trusted advisers and servants.
As such it seems reckless and irresponsible to suppose Imperial agencies and their counterparts in the Kingdom and the Mandate are engaging in high crimes until such time as there is an official confirmation of this conspiracy issued by a source empowered to make such statements by Her Imperial Majesty's Government.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1454
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Posted - 2015.05.02 19:33:37 -
[208] - Quote
Your lordship Ibrahim,
This is not something secret or hidden. It is a public sell order produced by the Civic Court (and as well by the Ammatar Consulate). Note in that image that I, a commoner, was able to purchase a slave from Civic Court through that buy order with no strings attached.
Additionally, this is not an accusation of criminal activity. Currently, these sales are entirely legal, due to SCC policies. This was stated in the past by Grand Inquisitor Ohrud Omel.
It is the call of this measure that Amarr take a stand against the SCC's policies, as these policies act against Scriptural law and the divine right of Holders. While it is not a crime against current liberal international trading laws, it is a crime against God. This is something that should not be legal, and the request we are making here is for Amarr to enforce traditional Scriptural laws and traditions over faithless SCC policies.
"Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away."
-- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
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Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
133
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Posted - 2015.05.02 23:47:40 -
[209] - Quote
Lt. Kernher,
I have the highest respect for your opinion, on any matter but particularly on this one. My instinct to defer to your good judgement, however, is prevented by a fundamental difference we seem to have on the matter. If it is maintained that the Civic Court and similar organizations are issuing contracts for slave services and slave transport in accordance with Imperial Law and while being true and faithful to treaties agreed to by the Imperial Government then, from my point of view, this matter should be closed. The only way this petition makes sense to me is if activities are happening in contravention of the law.
If these transactions occur within a legal framework endorsed by the ministries and officials of the Imperial Government then there is no legitimate claim to have the practice abolished on Scriptural grounds. At least certainly not by means of a public petition. To do so is to directly challenge the interpretation abilities of Her Imperial Majesty's Government and, by extension, Her Imperial Majesty Herself. I appreciate the intentions of the Faithful in their support and feel that each has in his or her heart the best and most noble intentions. However, a policy carried about by Her Imperial Majesty's Government is not open to review or approval of the public.
There is not one among us who has the Scriptural authority or Divine endorsement to make the claim that the Throne and Its ministers have erred in interpreting the Scriptures. Only the Highest Authority has the right to question this practice and when and if She decides to do so it should have nothing to do us.
This is not a democracy. We do not question, we do not criticize. We obey.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1455
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Posted - 2015.05.02 23:52:16 -
[210] - Quote
I am not making an interpretation, my lord. I am stating a fact. The Scriptures make very clear that only Holders may own slaves.
"Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away."
-- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
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