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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
214
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:52:34 -
[61] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:BoBoZoBo wrote:What is the most it can cost you? time which is money too
So when someone asks me how long it takes to drive to Chicago, I can say $306?
Cause if someone answered me that way, I'd punch them.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1094
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:53:16 -
[62] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Fear not the afk cloakie! Fonzie's coming to the rescue! He's going to remove local and make it all better. Well, actually, all he said was that it's a psychological issue, afk cloakie problem will be solved in a way ppl won't expect, and that afk cloakie is not a problem in whs, all in the same sentence. So... think positive. Idiot solutions obviously. Now we either have a cloaky watching the gates to spot them just before they cloak and when they leave or we leave Null. Worm holes that appear? Go watch them also until someone leaves via them or get a fleet in who really want to go roaming and try get them to break the link.
That won't even satisfy me with perfect scouts sitting on gates and perfect scanners because you can't hot drop more cloakers droppers in worm holes.
If we wanted to have no local we would live in worm holes.
Please CCP, slash Fozzie Logic's drug budget and hire another designer to help him.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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PhantomMajor
High Flyers The Kadeshi
32
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Posted - 2015.03.12 04:44:38 -
[63] - Quote
Kiandoshia wrote:PhantomMajor wrote:I love null sec because it's free of di*kheads like CODE and James who take up station tanking the first chance they get if a real fight breaks out. Wardecks mean squat in null coz you know these tough guy wannabes will never go south of a 0.5 system...They sneer at miners and have the audacity to call them "Carebears" all hail the glorious hypocrites
People in null who wanna pvp do...simples! I actually have seen CODE guys in 0.0 before. They even killed mining ships. It was all rather funny.
I didn't see it happen, therefore it didn't....Q.E.D. lol |
Agent Known
Night Theifs
43
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Posted - 2015.03.12 12:53:37 -
[64] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Agent Known wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:SilentAsTheGrave wrote:[quote=Tipa Riot]
Fozzies head has been largely shown to be up his ass on quite a few subjects lately. The only thing stopping me from dropping a dedicated alt into highsec incursions is the time and money it would take to train up a third account or plex up dual training. I view direct nullsec income generation (Ratting) to be a last ditch effort thing i do to make money.
I didn't run imports for ages because rat isk was so good. Well, a majority of the income from nullsec is moon goo. You can easily pull hundreds of billions a month with a network of towers and a few reaction farms. And where does this ISK go? Ask your leaders. Sure, there's SRP and other "programs" like buybacks and such, but that's not the full story. To boldly go where no man has gone before ... No, I am pretty sure the train to crazy town stops in GD on a regular schedule.
This is true.
If they tell you, they'd have to biomass you
But seriously, the majority of income in nullsec is locked to moon-holding alliances. While I have no idea where that money actually goes, it's obviously not going to the corporations. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1096
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Posted - 2015.03.12 16:20:27 -
[65] - Quote
PhantomMajor wrote:Kiandoshia wrote:PhantomMajor wrote: People in null who wanna pvp do...simples! I actually have seen CODE guys in 0.0 before. They even killed mining ships. It was all rather funny. I didn't see it happen, therefore it didn't....Q.E.D. lol When I first started speaking out about what carebears gankers are, CODE sent a contingent into Null Sec with a 97% ISK loss. It was hilarious! Would love to see them do that more often. Maybe they would empathise with the utter violation they inflict on their victims more then.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1556
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Posted - 2015.03.12 17:31:27 -
[66] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:March rabbit wrote:BoBoZoBo wrote:What is the most it can cost you? time which is money too So when someone asks me how long it takes to drive to Chicago, I can say $306? Cause if someone answered me that way, I'd punch them. yes if you are paying for your car based of time of using. Then paying $400 for it knowing that time spend to drive to Chicago will take $306 of it would be pretty strange decision.
Talking about Eve: you are paying for access to the game. And if you spent some time without fun you have paid for it too. And time here is easily convertible to money.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7941
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Posted - 2015.03.13 01:46:37 -
[67] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Elenahina wrote:March rabbit wrote:BoBoZoBo wrote:What is the most it can cost you? time which is money too So when someone asks me how long it takes to drive to Chicago, I can say $306? Cause if someone answered me that way, I'd punch them. yes if you are paying for your car based of time of using. Then paying $400 for it knowing that time spend to drive to Chicago will take $306 of it would be pretty strange decision. Talking about Eve: you are paying for access to the game. And if you spent some time without fun you have paid for it too. And time here is easily convertible to money.
My daughter just came back from a trip to Chicago. A direct flight from there to Toronto would be about 45 minutes. But instead she saved $300 by flying half way to Florida and changing planes to fly all the way back. Took about 5 hours.
I know this ties in with what I quoted somehow, so just accept that I'm making a reasonable point and be on your way.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1455
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Posted - 2015.03.13 05:31:26 -
[68] - Quote
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:With the upcoming sov changes I was thinking about null as a home ... but I still can't see the benefits to actually live in nullsec. Logistics, market access, defending sov, required highsec alts, ... all too strong negative points IMO.
For those of you having their main place of residence in null, please tell what were your reasons to move and stay? On the EVE Down Under podcast CCP Fozzie pretty much said null has truck loads of ISK being made. Like a LOT! So don't believe all the babies crying that it is not worth living in null. It very much is worth it and once these new sov changes happen, it will be even better.
My real issue with Fozzle's statement is that it didn't distinguish on that being per person, or per hour. There are a lot of people in null spending a lot of time making isk. |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
528
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Posted - 2015.03.13 08:38:08 -
[69] - Quote
Mithandra wrote:Gypsien Agittain wrote:Those of you that think that a regular line-member of an alliance makes more money in nullsec than an average highsec carebear know absolutely nothing about wealth generation in EVE.
And that's not a problem with the available wealth in 0.0, that's a problem with how its distributed and that's down to how corporations and alliances are run, and THAT is down to the players, not CCP.
There is plenty of bottom up income but its slowly being devalued. |
BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
541
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Posted - 2015.03.13 19:08:52 -
[70] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:March rabbit wrote:BoBoZoBo wrote:What is the most it can cost you? time which is money too So when someone asks me how long it takes to drive to Chicago, I can say $306? Cause if someone answered me that way, I'd punch them.
If course you would punch them, you asked them for time. It is like asking for Dollars and getting Yen. You don't want the value in Yen, but it does not mean they are not interchangeable.
I hope this is a troll, because if you haven't figured out how tightly time and money are relate, you are going to have a difficult financial life, unless daddy already made money for you.
Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
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Kiryen O'Bannon
Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans
223
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Posted - 2015.03.15 02:37:23 -
[71] - Quote
The best reason to be in null is simply to be part of a really big space tribe. There is always social activity, and fights with other space tribes. Plus, it makes the forum arguments about highsec so much more entertaining. CODE could assemble its entire strength and they'd be hard pressed to take on a BRAVE harpy fleet. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1101
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Posted - 2015.03.15 03:01:59 -
[72] - Quote
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:The best reason to be in null is simply to be part of a really big space tribe. There is always social activity, and fights with other space tribes. Plus, it makes the forum arguments about highsec so much more entertaining. CODE could assemble its entire strength and they'd be hard pressed to take on a BRAVE harpy fleet. Aren't you guys Low Sec pirates now?
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Kiryen O'Bannon
Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans
223
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Posted - 2015.03.15 18:38:49 -
[73] - Quote
Clearly, staging in a lowsec system for 2 weeks while raiding primarily nullsec entities means an entire alliance went lowsec pirate. I mean we gave up our sov and everything.. oh wait.. aren't you IN one of those nullsec entities we were raiding?
I sense buttburt. hold on while I check my killboard...
yup.. butthurt. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6654
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Posted - 2015.03.15 21:55:08 -
[74] - Quote
er what, fcon lives right next to us in beautiful Branch...
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution The Initiative.
419
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Posted - 2015.03.16 16:20:45 -
[75] - Quote
There are many reasons to live in nullsec, but isk generation definitely isn't one of them.
The fact is that NPC nullsec and it's level 4 missions is more worthwhile for isk-making than sov-null.
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7961
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Posted - 2015.03.16 16:35:55 -
[76] - Quote
Speedkermit Damo wrote:There are many reasons to live in nullsec, but isk generation definitely isn't one of them.
All those corps paying massive rental fees for null money fountains might disagree with you. And so would the alliances renting them out.
If not for the easy ISK generation with its ability to allow members to fight for free (read SRP), null would be a pretty empty and boring place.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10178
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Posted - 2015.03.16 16:39:26 -
[77] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Speedkermit Damo wrote:There are many reasons to live in nullsec, but isk generation definitely isn't one of them.
All those corps paying massive rental fees for null money fountains might disagree with you. And so would the alliances renting them out. If not for the easy ISK generation with its ability to allow members to fight for free (read SRP), null would be a pretty empty and boring place. Mr Epeen
Like Fozzie, it simply means you don't understand the issue (and knowing you , you probably don't want to understand). The presence of renters prove the OPPOSITE of what you believe. Human beings don't rent out things with enough value to be held on their own merits.
I responded at more length to What Speedkermit is saying in Features and Ideas, people who might actually want to understand the issue might consider giving it a read.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7961
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Posted - 2015.03.16 16:54:06 -
[78] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Human beings don't rent out things with enough value to be held on their own merits.
Do you even think before you spurge all over your keyboard? Human beings make money all the frikkin' time renting out stuff they don't have the time to deal with. The value is in holding the rights to something and making money off it with no effort.
Ask your landlord, the guy at the car rental place, the people behind the counter where you rent your tools and equipment and a hundred more that I can think of.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1506
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Posted - 2015.03.16 17:03:11 -
[79] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:My real issue with Fozzle's statement is that it didn't distinguish on that being per person, or per hour. There are a lot of people in null spending a lot of time making isk.
That doesn't correlate well to time and attention spent anyway. If I park an alt in an AFKtar in some deep bearhaven and the alt pulls down 80M ISK/hr while I sit on a titan/roam/am otherwise preoccupied on my main, I've completely buried the time spent making ISK. Whereas, if I'm actively involved in cherry-picking and blitzing level 4s, cashing in LP, and trading the loyalty store items, I may make more ISK/hr, but it's all I'm doing. The real value of the AFKtar isn't ISK/hr, but ISK/attention. You're effectively getting paid 80M/hr to PVP. The fact that your alt may be on for 4-5 hours a day is buried in your main activity; it's significantly less of a burden then if you had to rat for 1 hour on your main to get the same ISK.
You can AFK run L4s. I know a EVE vet (2005? IIRC), since unsubscribed, who did it in double-sentry-Dominix setups. The ISK/hr from doing that is comparatively low. The reason it was appealing is that he could go do something else--not just something else in game, but something like dinner with his family--and any ISK he made was better than the 0 ISK he'd otherwise be making. Same logic, basically.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10179
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Posted - 2015.03.16 17:09:19 -
[80] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Human beings don't rent out things with enough value to be held on their own merits.
Do you even think before you spurge all over your keyboard? Human beings make money all the frikkin' time renting out stuff they don't have the time to deal with. The value is in holding the rights to something and making money off it with no effort. Ask your landlord, the guy at the car rental place, the people behind the counter where you rent your tools and equipment and a hundred more that I can think of. Mr Epeen
Yep, not interested in the truth, again. At least you are consistent..
How many of those real life landlords rent out their own homes? their own personal vehicles? How many of them became landlords because they had not good options after the government screwed up their personal lands?
While renting in this game has always existed in some form or another, how much null space was up for rent prior to Dominion and the events detailed in the blog I linked above? This is an issue for which I am intimately familiar while you obviously are not, and yet somehow I'm the one "spurging all over a keyboard". Typical of you.
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Spaceman Jack
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
82
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Posted - 2015.03.16 20:58:47 -
[81] - Quote
Just popped in here to confirm OP does not have the balls to put their money where their mouth is and is still making declarative statements based off other people experiences. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
171
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Posted - 2015.03.16 22:34:09 -
[82] - Quote
Spaceman Jack wrote:Just popped in here to confirm OP does not have the balls to put their money where their mouth is and is still making declarative statements based off other people experiences. Thanks for your quality post and contribution to this thread.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Jade Krendraven
Catastrophic Overview Failure Brave Collective
1
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Posted - 2015.03.17 00:06:51 -
[83] - Quote
Living in null was (so far) the most fun I've ever had since I started playing this game. That said, I also spent more ISK in null than I made by far (this probably has something to do with my terrible ISK making abilities and/or laziness).
Recently joined a WH corp and while I miss some of the constant pvp action and huge fleets I got living in null, the ISK making potential here is much better and I see a lot of opportunity for fun being in a WH corp once the new sov system hits. We'll see :)
Oh, can't forget this gem.
http://i.imgur.com/reHXiXn.jpg |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
44
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:27:50 -
[84] - Quote
Agent Known wrote:But seriously, the majority of income in nullsec is locked to moon-holding alliances. While I have no idea where that money actually goes, it's obviously not going to the corporations.
A decent chunk gets spent on Ship Replacement Programs, which is ISK going straight into the pockets of line members.
Another chunk gets spent on tower fuel.
Another chunk goes on Jump Bridge fuel.
Then there's the chunk that needs to be spent on Sov upgrades, iHubs, station upgrades and the like.
And not to forget the chunk that gets spent paying the alliance's logistics wing to go out and fuel those towers and jump bridges. Some of those logibros are flying freighters many hours a day to keep everything ticking over. Oh, those logibros need fuel for their jump freighters, guess what pays for that? Bingo: moon goo. If you think carebear tears are delicious, you've never heard a coalition level FC completely lose the plot because a jump bridge is out of fuel and they need to move a fleet fast.
Alliance and coalition level assets don't just "happen". They come about because a lot of people put in a lot of effort and much of that effort is hidden from the cursory viewer. Look a little closer, it's actually quite amazing to see it all in action.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
385
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:40:23 -
[85] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Aralyn Cormallen wrote:I have always considered myself a "defender" and "castle builder" - I came in to nullsec to want to be part of something, to help build something, and defend it against all-comers. The isk/reward has never been the point (I've tried ratting/anomolies a couple of times, and each time thought "this **** is stupid" and ignored it). I'll still be in null providing there are walls to defend... but that is what has me worried, its looking less like being able to stand on the ramparts and face down the barbarian horde, and more like sitting in the sewers under the castle rat-catching. We love Goon tears! They're our favorite kind!
Ummm humm. |
Kiryen O'Bannon
Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans
223
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:43:38 -
[86] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:Agent Known wrote:But seriously, the majority of income in nullsec is locked to moon-holding alliances. While I have no idea where that money actually goes, it's obviously not going to the corporations. A decent chunk gets spent on Ship Replacement Programs, which is ISK going straight into the pockets of line members. Another chunk gets spent on tower fuel. Another chunk goes on Jump Bridge fuel. Then there's the chunk that needs to be spent on Sov upgrades, iHubs, station upgrades and the like. And not to forget the chunk that gets spent paying the alliance's logistics wing to go out and fuel those towers and jump bridges. Some of those logibros are flying freighters many hours a day to keep everything ticking over. Oh, those logibros need fuel for their jump freighters, guess what pays for that? Bingo: moon goo. If you think carebear tears are delicious, you've never heard a coalition level FC completely lose the plot because a jump bridge is out of fuel and they need to move a fleet fast. Alliance and coalition level assets don't just "happen". They come about because a lot of people put in a lot of effort and much of that effort is hidden from the cursory viewer. Look a little closer, it's actually quite amazing to see it all in action.
People who have never actually been in charge of anything often don't understand just how much time, effort, organization and planning goes into making things happen in a large organization, and just how many details there are to manage. EVE is sort of unique in that its complex enough that managerial and leadership skills really matter. If you go into the forums for a lot of other MMOS you can hear about how 24-man raids are "too large" because its somehow hard to get that many people organized.
That sort of person, if they ever try EVE and stick with it enough to hear about nullsec is exactly the sort of person that assumes a large alliance or coalition is just a bunch of guys ratting while the leadership sits around rolling in money. Inability to think analytically and inability to organize and lead even small groups go hand-in-hand. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2249
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:57:13 -
[87] - Quote
In my experience its pretty boring. Everyone docks when you enter system unless they have X times your number (X being their carebear level). Jumping into a bubbled camp is boring, almost impossible to get caught if you're smart. Likewise its close to impossible to catch people unless they're not smart. Most stations can't be docked at. Communities haven't developed past cave person complexity (friendly don't kill, stranger kill).
That's it in a nutshell.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Spaceman Jack
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
85
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Posted - 2015.03.17 20:02:49 -
[88] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Spaceman Jack wrote:Just popped in here to confirm OP does not have the balls to put their money where their mouth is and is still making declarative statements based off other people experiences. Thanks for your quality post and contribution to this thread.
Well, isn't that the teapot calling the kettle black.
It is difficult to have a fruitful discussion with someone, on something they refuse to take a part of, but insist on commenting on as if they did.
Start quality threads, you will get quality replies. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
176
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Posted - 2015.03.17 20:11:38 -
[89] - Quote
Spaceman Jack wrote: Start quality threads, you will get quality replies.
Don't worry, there are enough quality replies to my question in this thread.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Javiera
Shattered Stars Holding
0
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Posted - 2015.03.19 06:21:29 -
[90] - Quote
it has been a couple of years sins i played last and much has changed . i feel the sov change can be a good thing and a bad thing
i think it will not go the way ccp was intended it to head tho.. i see a future where the big alliances will become bigger . stength in numbers they say. Or can anyone explain what allready has happend with goon and brave . Time will tell but if you wanna feel safe in null you look for a partner and blob up.
xetic , bob goon .......what will the next big alliance be is the question |
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