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Lictas Alice
The Men Who Sold Worlds
15
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:31:37 -
[31] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:Budda Kuha wrote:Alice Saki wrote:Small Gang NEED Offgb to be effective against larger Targets. Small gangs shouldn't be effective against much larger gangs when brawling! They should be forced to use tactical wit instead of bluntly boosting their stats from off grid to make it look as if they accomplish something heroic. Besides: The larger the gang the higher the probability that they have a dedicated booster aswell. The whole ogb is necessary for small vs larger gang argument is null. More often than not ogb's are used by risk averse players to gain an advantage on top of their superior numbers. Rephrase. Small SHIELD NANO GANGS NEED OFFGB to be effective againt larger targets. The Alliance I just left, We used to fly to Goons home system Stir the Hornets nest with our 10 to 30 man gang and Get Swarmed by up too 900 goonies xD Without the Skirmish links providing Off Grid Boosting we'd all die in seconds.
Without links i can't engage outnumbered because its actually the off grid , off kill mail links that gives me a big enough advantage too take ridiculous fights and do well.
This is why links need to be changed.... |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34550
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:34:35 -
[32] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Ummm dont you think 10-30 ships SHOULD DIE IN SECONDS to 900 ships?? Lol
The fact that 10-30 can last more than seconds against such odds is proof it is unlabanced. Haha, no.
Look at how many small gangs come to catch for good fights and end up against larger Brave fleets, or third-partying into fights you guys are having already.
Piloting skill means a lot more than links in those situations. Go and watch a couple of the Chessur videos on YouTube for good examples of that exact situation.
We used to do the same in Barlequet before you took sov. 200 in system and we would snipe with kiting rails fits and everyone had a great time (without links too).
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Budda Kuha
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:35:58 -
[33] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Budda Kuha wrote:Furthermore the sheer existance of ogb penalizes players who like fast paced, spontanious and mobile pvp. It caters to risk-averse stationary pvp. For inherent logical reasons that decreases the total number of fights happening which equals to: bad for EVE pvp which equals to: Bad mechanic being bad for EVE. It's really as simple as that. The question remains: Why doesn't CCP take action? If I can offer a counter argument to that, my experience is almost the opposite of what you are saying here. Before I trained a links character I was reluctant to take fights outnumbered. But seeing how extensive the use of links is in lowsec, I trained a character up (pw. q1w2e3r4). She is far from slow and static, though her Loki doesn't warp as fast as a frigate or a T1 cruiser when I roam. She is used to scout as well as provide links, so gives me eyes in 2 systems at once, providing more knowledge of what is happening around. But mostly, having the links has allowed me to take more fights than I otherwise would because I will happily engage well outnumbered. 17:1 (17:2 including the links) is the largest fight I have taken on (I died of course, but took several down beforehand). Links can move fast and promote anything but risk aversion. Fighting outnumbered creates good fights for everyone and has had flow on effects into other areas. When I began FCing, having taken on a lot of fights outnumbered on my own (as a player), I already had a relatively good skillset in selecting targets and identifying which to take down first. That has bought better fights to my corpmates too when we are in fleet, whether we are running links or not. Would I really care if links were changed? Not really. I'm already training my links alt up to be on-grid at some point in the future, but links aren't a magic pill. Good piloting can still counter the benefit that someone else gains through links.
What about the players who don't run links? Many of them will be hesitant to engage at all since they will always be afraid that the incursus in that plex might be able to tank their gang due to that legion floating in space somewhere but not showing up on these embarrassing km's. Why do you even need links anyway? I fight 1vsmany most of the time and i have a lot of fun doing it. There are other ways than bluntly boosting your stats. kiting for instance. Don't you realize that this whole ogb thing is a huge turn off for casuals, newer players or generally anybody who doesn't want to run a second account? Shouldn't success in pvp be determined by tactical means and by what you actually throw in the ring (aka risking it)rather than by a boosting t3 or command ship which doesn't interact during the fight whatsoever? You sound freasonable so i'm really hoping that you understand that it's not about not having a link alt, I could easily afford one tbh but that wouldn't change the fact that for reasons stated above ogb's are a terrible mechanic. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2064
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:36:34 -
[34] - Quote
Lictas Alice wrote:If it was only solo players vs larger gangs using links , i wouldn't mind. But in my experience , its usually people in faction ships/full set of implants/ with backup/ with links at a 100% safe place( generally FW zones). Or for example in HS , Sit a links boat in a NPC corp get a pretty safe advantage with no risk. It gives people another advantage that can't really be countered , which is why it should be changed. Logi? Focus them . Ecm? Use eccm Neuts? Cap boosters/nos Links?? Neutral links being on grid in highsec wouldn't affect them in any way whatsoever, they'd still not be legal targets.
If you wanted to change how links are employed in highsec you'd have to mess with crimewatch.
If you really want to open up that particular can of worms again that's fine by me, I mean they did such a great job last time. |
Lictas Alice
The Men Who Sold Worlds
16
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:42:03 -
[35] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Lictas Alice wrote:But in my experience , its usually people in faction ships/full set of implants/ with backup/ with links at a 100% safe place( generally FW zones). Where is your experience from that this is it? There's a lot more use of links than faction ships and a set of implants for someone without links can also counter the links, the difference there being that links scale across the squad/wing/fleet where implants are individual. Particularly in lowsec, there is no greater risk to a pod than to a links ship (unless Santo or a copycat is around, but that can be avoided easily too).
uh , pretty much any faction warfare zones?From being in faction warfare on this acc/alts for years. I can understand why people do this. It's simple. They wanted the biggest advantage , so there killed board looks impressive.
I recently went into null , I was in a AB fit incursus. I landed in a bubble 120kms away from a Sivipul / orthus , The orthus burned at me going 5k/ms . Somehow i managed too scram him w/o links , w/o a t2 point. This really shouldn't of happened. I killed his 500m faction fit kite boat in a ab inc..When i checked his killboard, it was a hell of alot more impressive then mine something like 2k kills 100 losses, but his piloting skills were on par with a 2month old char.
My point is , People want the biggest advantage , Numbers , rr , logi , implants ect. Which is fine , But links cant really be countered. If there was actually some risk when using link boats/ they were on killmails , it would be a much nicer place.
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Alice Saki
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
125740
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:43:53 -
[36] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Alice Saki wrote:Budda Kuha wrote:Alice Saki wrote:Small Gang NEED Offgb to be effective against larger Targets. Small gangs shouldn't be effective against much larger gangs when brawling! They should be forced to use tactical wit instead of bluntly boosting their stats from off grid to make it look as if they accomplish something heroic. Besides: The larger the gang the higher the probability that they have a dedicated booster aswell. The whole ogb is necessary for small vs larger gang argument is null. More often than not ogb's are used by risk averse players to gain an advantage on top of their superior numbers. Rephrase. Small SHIELD NANO GANGS NEED OFFGB to be effective againt larger targets. The Alliance I just left, We used to fly to Goons home system Stir the Hornets nest with our 10 to 30 man gang and Get Swarmed by up too 900 goonies xD Without the Skirmish links providing Off Grid Boosting we'd all die in seconds. Ummm dont you think 10-30 ships SHOULD DIE IN SECONDS to 900 ships?? Lol The fact that 10-30 can last more than seconds against such odds is proof it is unlabanced. And again, if you or anyone is agruing and saying OGB is good/should stay. You r wrong. Ccp said u are wrong. They just cant figure out how to code it, they want yo change it though just cant
Only if you get caught, thats the Magic of OGB ;)
FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - All I want from Xmas is YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Lictas Alice
The Men Who Sold Worlds
16
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:44:33 -
[37] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Lictas Alice wrote:If it was only solo players vs larger gangs using links , i wouldn't mind. But in my experience , its usually people in faction ships/full set of implants/ with backup/ with links at a 100% safe place( generally FW zones). Or for example in HS , Sit a links boat in a NPC corp get a pretty safe advantage with no risk. It gives people another advantage that can't really be countered , which is why it should be changed. Logi? Focus them . Ecm? Use eccm Neuts? Cap boosters/nos Links?? Neutral links being on grid in highsec wouldn't affect them in any way whatsoever, they'd still not be legal targets. If you wanted to change how links are employed in highsec you'd have to mess with crimewatch. If you really want to open up that particular can of worms again that's fine by me, I mean they did such a great job last time.
I know , i kinda hinted at that a few posts earlier. If they can't implement on grid links , i am pretty sure theres other things they could do. Links on kilmails would be great , all those 'solo' pilots that need links to win would be exposed and probbably stop using them |
Blusterby Diggenploof FOODIE
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:44:39 -
[38] - Quote
Why not make it this way. Off grid boosters while boosting can't use gates or warp due to command links on and boom fixed. |
Alice Saki
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
125740
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:46:34 -
[39] - Quote
Blusterby Diggenploof FOODIE wrote:Why not make it this way. Off grid boosters while boosting can't use gates or warp due to command links on and boom fixed.
This I could live with xD
FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - All I want from Xmas is YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
154
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:57:40 -
[40] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Alice Saki wrote:Small Gang NEED Offgb to be effective against larger Targets. No, you mean kiters need off grid boosts to be effective. As to the OP, off grid boosting should be eliminated. For almost everything else that can contribute a measurable mechanical benefit to a fight, said asset must be on grid to do so. You cannot off grid logi, you cannot off grid ewar, and you cannot off grid tackle. You should not be able to off grid boost. Period. That said, CCP has stated several times that it not unwillingness to do so which holds them back, it is inability to do so. Meaning that they can't actually figure out how to implement it without causing excessive server load. This.
I may add that any mechanic which forces players to multibox a 2nd account is bad and has to be changed. In fleet we have logi pilots, we have ewar pilots but we don't have ogb pilots for obvious reasons.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34550
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:59:28 -
[41] - Quote
Budda Kuha wrote:What about the players who don't run links? Many of them will be hesitant to engage at all since they will always be afraid that the incursus in that plex might be able to tank their gang due to that legion floating in space somewhere but not showing up on these embarrassing km's. Why do you even need links anyway? I fight 1vsmany most of the time and i have a lot of fun doing it. There are other ways than bluntly boosting your stats. kiting for instance. Don't you realize that this whole ogb thing is a huge turn off for casuals, newer players or generally anybody who doesn't want to run a second account? Shouldn't success in pvp be determined by tactical means and by what you actually throw in the ring (aka risking it)rather than by a boosting t3 or command ship which doesn't interact during the fight whatsoever? You sound freasonable so i'm really hoping that you understand that it's not about not having a link alt, I could easily afford one tbh but that wouldn't change the fact that for reasons stated above ogb's are a terrible mechanic. If they don't run links, that's their choice. If they are hesitant because of that, then they will find some other excuse to be hesitant in the absence of links. Risk aversion is not determined by the presence of links in the game, it's an individual thing that exists outside the game mechanics.
Why do I need links? I don't particularly. It's a game mechanic that is available, so I choose to use it. There is nothing wrong in doing so and it's nothing about boosting my stats. I don't give two hoots about stats, just having good fights. In relation to this particular issue, links allow me to engage a much wider group of targets, both having and bringing good fights as a result. So in my personal experience, they aren't a negative in that respect.
In relation to casuals. Quite frankily, if they are going to whinge because they are a casual, then that is just another excuse used. "I'm just casual. It's not fair" is a pretty weak argument and if someone doesn't want to run a second account, then links are no different to someone else choosing to run a second account for logistics, or as to multibox DPS. 2 v 1 in those cases is no different, but complaining about not wanting to do something is the typical request for CCP to step in and help because they can't accept that it is their own self imposed limitation.
Success in pvp is never a concrete thing (with or without links) and no, why should tactical means be the only thing that affect outcome? Operational and Strategic decisions are equally important.
But overall I don't disagree with the argument about OGB. It could be removed from the game and the only affect would be to make the landscape of pvp a little less interesting (more uniform and less varied in that respect).
The only lament I would have from that is the time and effort that has gone into training a character to use the mechanics to their best advantage. It's not a trivial commitment. Those who make that choice gain benefit out of that choice, but if you look at the skillset of that character I linked, she is pretty much links focused at the moment and has been constantly trained since she was started two and a half years ago. Links characters are not an instant win button. But I'd move on and find some other use for her it if happens.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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RZ Tivianne
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
16
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Posted - 2015.03.08 23:04:02 -
[42] - Quote
If you had bothered to do any real research on the subject you would know that the reason off-grid boosters are still a thing is because the math needed to make on-grid boosting will not be necessary until Brain in a Box is done, which still has the ETA of ~soon~. For more information, just search brain in a box on the devblogs and you'll see plenty of info, ditto with the forums, and that will explain the technical side and why it's important/necessary to the change. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34550
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Posted - 2015.03.08 23:07:22 -
[43] - Quote
RZ Tivianne wrote:If you had bothered to do any real research on the subject you would know that the reason off-grid boosters are still a thing is because the math needed to make on-grid boosting will not be necessary until Brain in a Box is done, which still has the ETA of ~soon~. For more information, just search brain in a box on the devblogs and you'll see plenty of info, ditto with the forums, and that will explain the technical side and why it's important/necessary to the change. In the absence of brain-in-a-box, I guess it would always be possible to remove links from the game temporarily.
I don't see that happening, but temporary solutions should be possible until the preferred approach is available. Passive boosts from leadsrhip skills would still exist, but it should be possible to temporarily remove the effect of links modules.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Budda Kuha
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2015.03.08 23:15:16 -
[44] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Budda Kuha wrote:What about the players who don't run links? Many of them will be hesitant to engage at all since they will always be afraid that the incursus in that plex might be able to tank their gang due to that legion floating in space somewhere but not showing up on these embarrassing km's. Why do you even need links anyway? I fight 1vsmany most of the time and i have a lot of fun doing it. There are other ways than bluntly boosting your stats. kiting for instance. Don't you realize that this whole ogb thing is a huge turn off for casuals, newer players or generally anybody who doesn't want to run a second account? Shouldn't success in pvp be determined by tactical means and by what you actually throw in the ring (aka risking it)rather than by a boosting t3 or command ship which doesn't interact during the fight whatsoever? You sound freasonable so i'm really hoping that you understand that it's not about not having a link alt, I could easily afford one tbh but that wouldn't change the fact that for reasons stated above ogb's are a terrible mechanic. If they don't run links, that's their choice. If they are hesitant because of that, then they will find some other excuse to be hesitant in the absence of links. Risk aversion is not determined by the presence of links in the game, it's an individual thing that exists outside the game mechanics. Why do I need links? I don't particularly. It's a game mechanic that is available, so I choose to use it. There is nothing wrong in doing so and it's nothing about boosting my stats. I don't give two hoots about stats, just having good fights. In relation to this particular issue, links allow me to engage a much wider group of targets, both having and bringing good fights as a result. So in my personal experience, they aren't a negative in that respect. In relation to casuals. Quite frankily, if they are going to whinge because they are a casual, then that is just another excuse used. "I'm just casual. It's not fair" is a pretty weak argument and if someone doesn't want to run a second account, then links are no different to someone else choosing to run a second account for logistics, or as to multibox DPS. 2 v 1 in those cases is no different, but complaining about not wanting to do something is the typical request for CCP to step in and help because they can't accept that it is their own self imposed limitation. Success in pvp is never a concrete thing (with or without links) and no, why should tactical means be the only thing that affect outcome? Operational and Strategic decisions are equally important. But overall I don't disagree with the argument about OGB. It could be removed from the game and the only affect would be to make the landscape of pvp a little less interesting (more uniform and less varied in that respect). The only lament I would have from that is the time and effort that has gone into training a character to use the mechanics to their best advantage. It's not a trivial commitment. Those who make that choice gain benefit out of that choice, but if you look at the skillset of that character I linked, she is pretty much links focused at the moment and has been constantly trained since she was started two and a half years ago. Links characters are not an instant win button.
To sum things up: You think that time and money invested in a game should factor into pvp even more than it's already the case. In contrast to that I and many of the opponents of ogb believe that tactical means aka actual skill should be more decisive and that in terms of accessability this would lead to a healthier game in general.
In that regard we have essentially different notions of what kind of a game eve should be. Your statement that removing ogb would lead to a more uniform landscape is just plain wrong though. Leveling the field creates competition which puts incentive on creative tactical solutions. Thus New Eden would most certainly become a more interesting place in terms of pvp. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
316
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Posted - 2015.03.08 23:21:20 -
[45] - Quote
Off Grid Boosting exists for one big reason: On Grid Boosting is NOT viable. Not unless you are in Carriers or Titans. Or a Slep roam. Beyond that booting ships are survivable for any length of time at all. It's a broken mechanic with broken ships and modules that hamper their use in small fleets, and in large ones make Off Grid, or using Cap's that aren't as easy to just blow off the grid.
CCP did make changes so there's no more of the unscanable Booster ships, and kicked them out of the POS's (except for Rorq/Orca, they can still boost in a POS till they get their rebalance).. Which was a good change imho. They are now able to be killed, you just need to get them, or keep forcing them to warp, either way removes the boosts.
Now for me, I think Off Grid boosting should remain, but with one change. I'd like difference bonuses for off grid vs on grid. Say a 50% Bonus for being On Grid (Or a 50% Reduction for being off grid).. Also, I'd like an end to those Command Processors. Having them take up your mids kills shield booster ships. It makes no sense that you can fit near a full rack of links on a Damnation, AND Tank, but try that on a Vulture you get just the links and nada else. Just make it so you can fit as many as there are slots on Command Ships, and adjust their fitting stats to even it out. T3's.. hell just make it 1link + link for each level of that Subsystems skill. There's your 6 high slots. Do the same for Carriers and Titans. Leave BC's alone as 1 link only..
Now as for the comment about can't warp/jump/etc.. Well Boosting should give an aggression timer.. so no gates/docking while links are on+1min. While in warp, links go off anyway, so as long as you keep scanning em down, they aren't boosting anything, or are tackled. It takes about as much SP to make a scanning toon that can scan down that booster in seconds, as it does to have the perfect booster.. so I don't see the issue myself.. sooner or later you'll catch em, or they won't notice the probes, and you'll have your kill. In the mean time constant warping will keep them from boosting.
Another idea, increase the cycle time of links, but make them take a massive amount of cap at the beginning.. it would average out to the same now, but if you keep activating them as you warp away, land, etc, then you'll be cap dry in short order and unable to warp, or unable to boost. Or blowing though a lot of charges, which again, finite amount, can't keep it up forever.. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34551
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Posted - 2015.03.08 23:34:55 -
[46] - Quote
Budda Kuha wrote:To sum things up: You think that time and money invested in a game should factor into pvp even more than it's already the case. In contrast to that I and many of the opponents of ogb believe that tactical means aka actual skill should be more decisive and that in terms of accessability this would lead to a healthier game in general. No, I think that is a misinterpretation of what I intended. Probably my bad writing more than anything.
No pvp in this game is based purely on the skill of individual pilots.
The choice of ship and fit, the focus of skillpoints (those small percentages can make a difference at times), the location of the engagement and how the ships are arranged on grid (a kiting ship warping into a FW Plex with a brawling ship inside is likely to be at a disadvantage initially irrespective of on-grid skill, but skill to pull range before being tackled helps), implants, drug boosters, resists, etc. - are all variables that mean no engagement comes down purely to skill.
But in some respects many of those things are also skill based, but at a different level of decision making. Tactical decisions on grid have a huge effect on the outcome of a fight, but they aren't the only ones and no fight is straight up skill based.
Quote:In that regard we have essentially different notions of what kind of a game eve should be. Your statement that removing ogb would lead to a more uniform landscape is imo just plain wrong though. There is a lot of variety in choice we make for pvp. Removing any of them makes the game more uniform. Levelling the field would also involve removing drugs, implants, different fleet setups, etc. There is no practical way to level the field. That's what makes pvp so much of a challenge. Overcoming and/or making best use of the odds is why pvp is so much fun, at least in my view.
Quote:Leveling the field creates competition which puts incentive on creative tactical solutions. Thus New Eden would most certainly become a more interesting place in terms of pvp. This I'll agree we differ. Levelling the field in my view creates less interest.
The most level a field could be would be equal skillpoints, same ships, same fits and same choices in every other aspect. That would become very boring quickly in my opinion.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Serene Repose
2352
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Posted - 2015.03.08 23:49:44 -
[47] - Quote
People who do it, ridicule. Rational people go, huh? You get an extra row of pawns? To the response, "Crybaby!"
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Asura Vajrarupa
Sanguis Inceptum
36
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Posted - 2015.03.09 00:02:34 -
[48] - Quote
It's a terrible mechanic but produces hilarious killmails and salty tears when you catch an ogb and kill it.
Ignorance is the cause of suffering.
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Budda Kuha
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2015.03.09 00:08:31 -
[49] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: No, I think that is a misinterpretation of what I intended. Probably my bad writing more than anything.
No pvp in this game is based purely on the skill of individual pilots.
The choice of ship and fit, the focus of skillpoints (those small percentages can make a difference at times), the location of the engagement and how the ships are arranged on grid (a kiting ship warping into a FW Plex with a brawling ship inside is likely to be at a disadvantage initially irrespective of on-grid skill, but skill to pull range before being tackled helps), implants, drug boosters, resists, etc. - are all variables that mean no engagement comes down purely to skill.
But in some respects many of those things are also skill based, but at a different level of decision making. Tactical decisions on grid have a huge effect on the outcome of a fight, but they aren't the only ones and no fight is straight up skill based.
Agreed, but the point was that you want static factors like sp or a booster alt to have a bigger impact wheras I and others would prefer spontanious tactical decisions to be more decisive. The strategic aspect of eve has a huge impact as it is -that's just fine and nobody wants to turn eve pvp into a game of chess I believe. The problem with boosts is that they provide a massive advantage which especially in solo pvp can't be countered and which involves no risk or interaction even. I'm sure you understand how that makes ogb's unique compared to any other static factor or strategic decision. Removing links would leave more room for dynamic factors like smart manual piloting and deception and I just think that would make a better game as I'm sure you'll understand. But tbh as i said i don't really wanted to discuss why ogb is a bad mechanic. That has basically been settled |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
20
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Posted - 2015.03.09 00:39:32 -
[50] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Ummm dont you think 10-30 ships SHOULD DIE IN SECONDS to 900 ships?? Lol
The fact that 10-30 can last more than seconds against such odds is proof it is unlabanced. Haha, no. Look at how many small gangs come to catch for good fights and end up against larger Brave fleets, or third-partying into fights you guys are having already. Piloting skill means a lot more than links in those situations. Go and watch a couple of the Chessur videos on YouTube for good examples of that exact situation. We used to do the same in Barlequet before you took sov. 200 in system and we would snipe with kiting rails fits and everyone had a great time (without links too).
Chessur is leet, yet flies billion isk ships with drugs and OFFGRID BOOSTERS lol thats the whole point dude. Wtf? |
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Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
641
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Posted - 2015.03.09 00:49:13 -
[51] - Quote
Just my personal opinion as a Semi-Link *****.
-> Drastically lower boosts for Offgrid boosts. IE: Instead of a 30% bonus, change it to about 5%. -> 30% bonus for On grid Boosting -> Add more boosting ships for each ship size. Battleship, Destroyer, Frigate, Cruiser (Not T3's) -> Nerf fitting requirement on links to increase combat viability of on grid ships.
What does this mean? Offgrid boosting is still capable - providing a small advantage, but not an exponential one. Encourage people to bring their links on field while being useful. Make links more accessible as well. |
Hal Morsh
Aliastra Gallente Federation
267
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Posted - 2015.03.09 01:03:28 -
[52] - Quote
I hate off grid boosts. Thing is there is a way to defeat them if you have a group who can follow well with a half intelligent FC.
I was in this group who got wardeced. Thing here is they didn't often leave system because thye flew about in boosted garmurs. You get caught off a station or gate and you weren't escaping. Even with low DPS from them you'd still be permastuck.
What we did is we had someone occupy the garmurs, got someone to scan the links and pilot in front of it, when we jumped some destroyers in system and ganked it. They decided to tell us it was "backup links" we killed but the garmurs were reported to slow down.
It wasn't long before they got replacement links onfield even though we podded their links. The war ended shortly after, but as an example. Occupy the link receiver then start scanning. Till CCP fixes it.
CCP - Outpost code is scary.
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
626
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Posted - 2015.03.09 01:20:35 -
[53] - Quote
I think they should get rid of boosts entirely. No off grid, no on grid, no fleet bonus. Turn the command ships into something else. Refund SP for fleet command skills and allow anyone to form a fleet of any size. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34552
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Posted - 2015.03.09 01:31:18 -
[54] - Quote
Budda Kuha wrote:Agreed, but the point was that you want static factors like sp or a booster alt to have a bigger impact wheras I and others would prefer spontanious tactical decisions to be more decisive. No, that's not what I want at all.
I became involved in what has been a reasonable discussion up to now because a view was put that links only make people risk averse and pvp slow and static. I offered a counter-view to that based on my experience.
But presuming to know what I want when I've never said that at all just risks this devolving into personal assumptions and attacks, which leads to pointless discussion.
So I'll bow out, because that's not productive. But what you claim about me is not true.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2066
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Posted - 2015.03.09 03:08:50 -
[55] - Quote
Lictas Alice wrote:I know , i kinda hinted at that a few posts earlier. If they can't implement on grid links , i am pretty sure theres other things they could do. Links on kilmails would be great , all those 'solo' pilots that need links to win would be exposed and probbably stop using them Again this wouldn't have any affect on their use in highsec.
When you need links in highsec it's usually because you intend to engage a numerically superior but otherwise inferior opponent and that extra advantage. The numbers of people involved in your kills is irrelevant and losing the element of surprise after their first use is much the same as it is with neutral logistics except with links they are never actually vulnerable.
The logical solution is to give neutral characters that are providing fleet bonuses to characters who are suspect flagged, involved in limited engagements, or are engaging war targets suspect flags.
It sounds like a great idea right? I guarantee it wouldn't work out how people want it to, much like suspect flagging of neutral logistics had a number of funny side effects that routinely screw over the uninformed. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34577
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Posted - 2015.03.09 03:10:05 -
[56] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Chessur is leet, yet flies billion isk ships with drugs and OFFGRID BOOSTERS lol thats the whole point dude. Wtf? Haha, yeah. Not always with OGB.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Boozbaz
Brutor Clan
12
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Posted - 2015.03.09 03:23:54 -
[57] - Quote
Kry Meariver wrote:Off grid boosting needs to die. If a boosting ship is not on grid with a boosted ship, there should be no bonus. My guess is it is difficult to code the change.
I'm thinking the same thing. |
Fade Azura
Azura Industries
165
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Posted - 2015.03.09 06:38:13 -
[58] - Quote
Off grid boosting has already been dealt with .... the nerf to unprobeable t3's and command ships unable to give links within a POS.
everything anyone can do with links can be countered
if they make a hard to probe down t3 it can still be probed down and killed if they are boosting next to a station or a pos shields .. some tornado's warping in can alpha shot it or force it off
and last but not least you can always bring the same links and use same tactics as they are if you cant do either of the above
if you are unable or unwilling to take the above steps to match your enemy .. then honestly your not on the same level and don't deserve to win that fight.
but anyways this has been discussed to death many times and nothing is going to change anytime soon so stop complaining and go blow some stuff up ... its a lot more constructive then whining on the forums about things that are easily countered or matched. |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
629
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Posted - 2015.03.09 07:27:51 -
[59] - Quote
Budda Kuha wrote:I recently bought this toon and returned to EVE after a break due to rl obligations and I was shocked to see that ogb was not only still around but that it has spread like a desease and infested most of lowsec and nullsec even. Before anyone calls me a whiner let me say this: I have much love for EVE as a game and even though i don't have much time to play it I will probably keep my accounts subbed until tranquility shuts down.I'm not a "pro" and I don't care for kb stats but i do care for good fights which way too often simply get ruined by off grid boosted undercover super ships! Wasn't this supposed to be dealt with a long time ago!? Why do you even bother balancing hulls if you're allowing a condor being turned into a garmur from off grid without any notable risk?!
The arguments for getting rid of this terrible mechanic are well known so I won't enumerate them again but seriously: CCP, get your stuff together! You guys know what a turn off ogb is for half of the pvp community, you know how it caters to a dumped down, tedious, slow and risk-averse playsyle that is literally poison to pvp as a whole! If the dogma rewrite still takes time give us something in the meantime! This bullshit mechanic has been around for way too long and not everybody is enough of an eve fanboy to endure your disregard in that respect.CCP, do something!
I too am beside myself with outrage and disbelief over a broken game mechanic. As a customer I feel entitled to demand change.
But deep down inside, I know I deserve everything that CCP does. CCP giveth and CCP taketh away.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
123
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Posted - 2015.03.09 08:10:12 -
[60] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Alice Saki wrote:Small Gang NEED Offgb to be effective against larger Targets. No, you mean kiters need off grid boosts to be effective. As to the OP, off grid boosting should be eliminated. For almost everything else that can contribute a measurable mechanical benefit to a fight, said asset must be on grid to do so. You cannot off grid logi, you cannot off grid ewar, and you cannot off grid tackle. You should not be able to off grid boost. Period. That said, CCP has stated several times that it not unwillingness to do so which holds them back, it is inability to do so. Meaning that they can't actually figure out how to implement it without causing excessive server load.
I'm speechless.
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