Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
506
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 09:26:24 -
[1] - Quote
Disclaimer: I don't fly supers but I am educated in their use and have been their victim plenty of times.
This will be mostly a running commentary based on the EN24 article linked here in another thread, I came up with the bulk of this last night lying in bed during my caffiene fueled insomnia. I realise that this thread may be redundant in advance and don't really mind if it subsequently gets locked.
So: supers.
Their role today as we know is kind of nebulous. They're basicly a regular carrier except larger, do more damage and fit more warfare links natively. Their common applications I see cited are in structure grinding and presumably in larger null conflicts where hurting dreads/carriers is a necessity. In lowsec supers I see get used when your group deploys what few capitals you've decided to retain from earlier exploits. Fundamentally in all cases Supers just kind of ruin the game. They're just another arbitrarily high hurdle to climb over for any group without sov and their proliferation has been both a necessity for those who might encounter enemy supers and also from the angle of that having one is better than not having one. The same cannot strictly be said for titans.
But I don't need to go over old ground so let's look ahead at these speculative changes to nullsec and supers and try and find the position that CCP intends for them (rather than expressing any strong desire for them personally).
OK. Supers in my mind are going to be deployed at least 1 per system. They will become super-sized OGB and the next natural progression for those sad individuals who already pay an extra sub/PLEX for OGB T3/CS. With 1 super per system it becomes conceivable that when an important system is under attack by invading forces this super will be logged in to provide "wormhole like effects" for the fleet it is attached to. Unlike OGB which currently can be a pain in the ass to scan down a super will be retardedly easy to scan down and by association will be a focal point and central objective for capital ships who might otherwise be marginalised in the predominantly sub-capital fights around an entosis'd station. A naglfar isn't much good for shooting cruisers but a super with no fighter-bombers is a surefire target.
I think that CCP will balance supers this way by making their OGB/"wh effects" not be permitted for activation within say 150km of a tower or station. A super can therefore maybe pre-align and warp back to safety (and in the process deprive the fleet of boosts) but also this allows for it to be bubbled/HIC'd with much less cheesey danger for the involved tacklers and associated super removal team.
The EN24 article addressed an idea where supers will become like chess pieces whose spheres of influence are not immediately known and require some additional planning for aggressor and defender. That more than 1 super in a system could conceivably be necessary with some perhaps even being sacrificial in the same way that a bishop is commonly used as a sacrifical piece in chess compared to queens or knights.
It cannot be stressed enough how powerful certain WH effects are and the importance of accounting for them in an invasion. Bringing the wrong composition is a death-wish. If supers can transfer this kind of horrific advantage to their fleets then they will be used and prized for this capacity.
So while their function in the game is being obsoleted through the degradation of HP based sov grind and the role of anti-capital warfare more invested in dreadnoughts and titans (which IMO is where it should have stayed) the supercarrier gains a more important fleet role and is encouraged to spread out more in the universe. Fleets which are prepared to deploy spider-tanking supercaps giving the right bonuses will have an advantage over fleets that don't deploy their supers at all.
I'd like it to go on record that I have heard personal accounts from at least 3 different nullsec agencies and 1 lowsec agency that they've lost supercap/cap pilots (through unsubbing) since the jump range/fatigue changes were brought in. While I believe that the upcoming theoretical changes will also see another exodus of supercap pilots leaving the game I don't see their supers disappearing forever. Affording a PLEX is trivial for groups that own supers. Where it becomes necessary to consolidate multiple supercap pilots on to the same account and then sub or PLEX them only to store/transfer/travel supers and titans around then this is exactly what will happen. An estimate posted not long ago suggested there was at least 21,000 supers in EVE. They're not going to disappear any time soon. Initially I think they'll be deployed and get ganked in relatively low numbers, then a parabolic curve of use will occur where their new roles are more formally accepted and anti-super hit&run dread/titan ganks will happen during system sieges until finally their use flattens off again as their deployment gets determined to be "useful but not necessarily critical except under circumstances a,b,c and d" and supers start seeing more scarce use except for cases where escalation is inevitable.
If this is all correct then super pilots will probably see more frequent use than today, in the same way that OGB are frequently deployed during fleet ops because it's the logical thing to do. When the chips are down those supers will log on and face the risk off annihilation. The nature of the war will shift it just remains to be seen how far.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
|
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1535
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 10:12:12 -
[2] - Quote
Future of Supers: unsubbed
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
|
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
506
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 10:38:10 -
[3] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:Future of Supers: unsubbed
For people who like to lose their space, sure.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
|
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23706
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 11:08:50 -
[4] - Quote
A thoughtful post.
However, I think we don't have the proper channels established for a discussion. The threadnaught quickly buries discussions because it moves too quickly. There are too many subtopics in heavy contention. There are, and will be a lot of threads on GD/F&I where each person (like you) will have their own ideas. It will be hard to distinguish theidea threads from the complaint threads (supercap pilot quitting, as an example).
I think that as a general rule, gnashing your teeth and quitting are not effective means to institute change. People should vote with their wallet.. but all too often quitting is used as some sort of message to CCP, instead of a way to not give money to a game you no longer enjoy.
Edit: Grr autocorrect
and never no cure from
|
TinkerHell
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
141
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 11:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
As a CEO of a small lowsec alliance based around the use of Supercapitals and other capitals...i am just starting to lose the will to play anymore.
I am fine with jump fatigue, even though i believe it just created pockets of super powers that became uncontested in their local space. I dont really think jump range nerf was needed, but whatever...its liveable.
This change didnt bother me, what did however was the fact Thera then gets introduced which basically allows blobs of subcaps to move around eve freely and at extreme speeds, whereas capitals have the opposite effect. Doesnt really make space seem any bigger in my opinion...
Then...the completely not needed 92% Scan res nerf to fighter bombers. Seriously thank you for this...i have such fun waiting up to 20 seconds to apply damage to a CAPITAL in my supers. It is completely ridiculous, if i am killing a carrier that is aggressed on a station these days...i would never dream of using my super...as a my Moros has the same dps...and as unbelievable as it is...a better lock time than my super!
Now i hear the rumour of this next change...I no longer see supers as fun...i dont want to spend 30b to provide links. Also what happens to the Revenant? 120b link ship? Thanks a bunch.
If i wanted a link ship, i would of bought a link ship. I bought a supercarrier because it has damage, i knew what i was purchasing at the time.
I dont expect to walk out my house in the morning to find out my car is no longer a car but a shed.
(yes all my supers are for sale, please buy them - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=411227&find=unread)
Am i losing the will to play eve? Yes.
Will i quit? Probably not, ill just have alot of isk to go buy t1 cruisers and t3 destroyers and pretend eve is fun.
|
Necrobios
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
6
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 11:54:53 -
[6] - Quote
Same for me, to fly and kill stuff with supers was my goal in eve. I don't like big alliances or blobs of subcaps. I don't need ISK or my 100m sp to fly boring t1 cruisers or frigs. If supers are only boosting ships for sov war in future I will probably stop playing or just gank all the new players the whole day long, so that they hopefully quiet the game. Anyway -6 Accounts for CCP |
Bane Verve
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
2
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 13:53:18 -
[7] - Quote
The fact that you suggest supers are going to be good because it gives something for Naglfars to shoot at shows how dumb of an idea that is. Please tell me how your so well versed in supers while you suggest I sit my now defenseless 30b isk super tengu links out in space so you can "easily scan it down" and shoot it with your dreads.
You also suggest that sometime one will have to be sacrificed and I'm not sure about other super pilots but I'm not willing to sacrifice my super so your atrons get sick boost. The fact that you suggest this without yourself grinding to get the money to pay for a super and a toon to fly it shows your ignorance. You should realize that not everyone is a major sov block that will just shell our some SRP and hand them a new one.
Maybe you should realize that not everyone in this game uses them in nul to grind down SBUs and Stations. Some small groups actually use them as a way to escalate and hit above their weight. If I wanted to fly a links ship I bet I could get the job done for a lot less then the 30b I spent of my super.
JOIN ADVERSITY. PREMIER SERBIAN RP ALLIANCE!
Join TISHU!
|
Serene Repose
2357
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:11:36 -
[8] - Quote
There's this great temptation to get into this "discussion" (more like rumination akin to old men rockin' on the porch whittlin' down a stick of pine.) One has to offer testimonial - "I owned half a dozen capitals" or "capitals never did float my boat." Before this rumor that they were on the way out started, however, I will remark that all discussion of them sounded more like owning one saddled someone with an ominous and dreadful chore, and I was never struck that anyone enjoyed them.
They have the attributes of an obligatory step along a line of obligatory steps no one really seemed to enjoy taking, in order to own a chunk of null sec, which in itself didn't seem to make anyone happy. (So, it's hard to imagine these ships gone would make anyone SAD...) Anyway, some of us here still remember playing with BoB and that huge blue chunk of map. "If BoB were gone, we'd all be up there." If I heard it once, I heard it a thousand times.
Now BoB's gone, instead of freeing up all that map, we have another (smaller sure, but there) blue blob, we happily call a "donut", but it amounts to the same thing as before. At least now RENTAL has become the big thing - bigger than those ships. I find it hard to accept sentiments over owning this ship nobody seemed to really like should have precedence over a condition this game seems to have following it like a plague, but nobody really wants to say much about.
Maybe, people who "live" in null sec have found an accommodation under the circumstances and just won't criticize it. Maybe some have no idea what is really going on "out there." Maybe we today can't really have an intelligent discussion about it at all. I tend to believe the latter is true, so I applaud CCP approaching the real problem - endemic map stagnation, even if it means disregarding the sentiments of people who own big ships. Five years from now, if this new idea works, nobody will recall much of this, save the occasional player who entertains us with reminiscences; "Why, musta been years ago, we had these HUGE ships, kid. Bigger'n anything you see today." (Right grandpa?)
Time marches on, and I'm eager to see how this new formula plays itself out. EVE experts are a lot like economists. You lay every EVE expert end to end and they point in every direction.
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
|
Lachesiss
nomnomnom MOAR BABIES The Pursuit of Happiness
284
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:12:08 -
[9] - Quote
Meaning of
super -êsu-Ép+Ö,-êsju adjective adjective: super 1. informal very good or pleasant; excellent. "Julie was a super girl" synonyms:excellent, superb, superlative, first-rate, first-class, superior, outstanding, remarkable, dazzling, marvellous, magnificent, wonderful, splendid, fine, exquisite, exceptional, glorious, sublime, peerless, perfect, of the first water; More antonyms:rotten, lousy 2. (of a manufactured product) very good; superfine. "a super quality binder" 3. BUILDINGBRITISH short for superficial (used in expressing quantities of material). adverbinformal adverb: super 1. especially; particularly. "he's been super understanding" nouninformal noun: super; plural noun: supers 1. a superintendent. "the super walked around the incident room" 2. archaic an extra, unwanted, or unimportant person; a supernumerary. NORTH AMERICANtheatrical slangdated an extra. 3. superphosphate. 4. superfine fabric or manufacture. 5. Super Capital. Word became redundant 2015. Renamed 30b tin pot capital
On the third day after your birth myself and my sister's will come to you and decide your fate.
|
Alice Saki
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
125767
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:27:57 -
[10] - Quote
I am useless
GG
FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - All I want from Xmas is YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU
|
|
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1537
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:35:42 -
[11] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:I am useless
GG Sibyyl is here....you are here....this thread can still get happy.
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
|
Terribly Misguided
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 15:28:45 -
[12] - Quote
Speaking as someone who lived under Cyno Field Theory's caps and super caps and having our t1 cruisers dropped on by said assets.
Ha ha. |
Yasemin Hanim
Sonnenlegion Shadow Cartel
7
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 15:29:49 -
[13] - Quote
Im crying inside! Training 3 toons since 1year To get 3 Different Supers and NOW this!
Im really crying very Deep inside!!!!
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4006
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 16:04:56 -
[14] - Quote
I'm going to consolidate several threads on Supers currently active in GD in one thread. As such, as there already is a thread on the same topic, this one gets a lock.
The Rules: 17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.
As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussion regarding a topic to a single thread.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |