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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2632
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:07:12 -
[421] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Look, even if you don't believe the rail boats (and the better arty and beam boats) can make intys squish at 100+ (and they do), the Cerberus can be fit to hit past 140km with RLML.I trust everyone here knows what RLML does to an inty? nothing as it effortlessly burns outside of that range due to dscan, warp deceleration, and crappy lock time on the smallest signature ship in the game If it burns out of range, the entosis link deactivates, you win.
Cerberus with 137km RLML Range (I lied it isn't 140, my bad lol): https://o.smium.org/new/5916218721826766848#modules,search
Getting an inty to even lock past 137km is no small feat, but even THAT doesnt matter. Also, any decent rail boat (eagle, tengu, naga) will apply dps effectively well past that.
The zomg-trollceptor crowd needs to stop being bad. |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
335
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:07:54 -
[422] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:your lack of experience with goonswarm federation's SOP is showing I'm afraid it is, how long does a defence fleet take to form after the ping goes out? And now 100 simultaneous pings across the whole of CFC space? That sounds like a headache. After the pings? Depends on the time of day and what else is going on. Maybe 5-10m. Before the pings, though... Welcome to the JU- standing fleet and Theta Squad. There's always a fleet pre-formed. Sometimes, other fleets form up to run around chasing people, too. Yep 2 preformed fleets trying to chase multiple inty gangs around 3 regions sounds exactly like the problem that you're trying to frame as other people's issue. Unless of course you can ban these evil ceptors and just wait at a couple of convenient bubble camped gates.
Now that'd be boringly easy to manage wouldn't it? |
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
64
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:08:12 -
[423] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: This is where living in your space helps.
deklein is the most populous and densest region in eve with the best indexes so i am not sure where you are going with this
Deklin is a barren wasteland of empty useless space..where you could literally search for hours looking for targets outside of the main staging systems of the CFC and goons...and Deklin is the poster child for exactly what is wrong with the current SOV mechanics. |
Torei Dutalis
IceBox Inc. Lasers Are Magic
18
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:08:35 -
[424] - Quote
I think the main issue with the t2 link is the rather extreme range it has. 100km seems much more reasonable (and honestly 28km for the t1 makes more sense as that is the range of a heated point). A 100km engagement envelope is more than reasonable and puts any really "trolly" things into a range they should be easy to deal with.
Of course this is all ignoring the fact that all it takes to counter any number of "troll" ships is one entosis link of your own. When you think about it, assuming the occupancy bonuses roll over from current ownership most important/lived in systems are going to have a level 5 military and level 5 strategic bonus which amounts to a 27.5 minute timer which is more than enough time to respond to a lone "troll" ship.
Of course then there is the point that interceptors are not really the issue. There are plenty of ships that can be fit in a similar manner. 10mn mwd t3 destroyers come to mind. Interceptors do have the rather important distinction of being interdiction nullified, but any "super fast" ships have the potential to perform the same kind of shenanigans.
All in all I do think a range reduction on the module is in order, but aside from that I think there is an extraordinarily large amount of doom and gloom is being thrown around. People who have been a part of FW will be familiar with somewhat similar plex mechanics. Of course you don't need to lock the beacon in FW, but holding the field is the name of the game. |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
643
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:08:35 -
[425] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Point being, your entire organization doesn't need to be trying to kill interceptors constantly, just devote the necessary number of ships to keep an Entosis point on your important stuff. If you can't do that, scale back a bit until you can.
the fact that we can easily do exactly this is immaterial to the point The fact that your are complaining bitterly about the need to do this is very material to the point. Why would you care if others are unwilling to do so? That's not your problem. because if we can reduce the headache for us and make the system actually livable for people who are not us we achieve what we in the biz like to call "objective benefit" we can occasionally get what we want without it necessarily coming at the expense of everyone else, weird as it is to see written
I suffer from withdrawal if I don't hear about suffering in EVE every day...
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6166
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:09:11 -
[426] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:So.... your area of control shrinks to something manageable and the downside is that you get lots more good fights close to home with people you've likely never seen before?
For other folks they get the chance to make a stake and experience 0.0. Even if they can't hold their sov, they have fun and perhaps find an area where they DO manage to hang on and grow?
I'm not really seeing a downside here... for anyone. interceptors don't generate fights, they run away why would you contest sov with anything but the cheapest, most maneuverable ships in the new system Because you want good fights?
Go take Sov with a fleet if you want a fight.
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
643
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:09:56 -
[427] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: This is where living in your space helps.
deklein is the most populous and densest region in eve with the best indexes so i am not sure where you are going with this Deklin is a barren wasteland of empty useless space..where you could literally search for hours looking for targets outside of the main staging systems of the CFC and goons...and Deklin is the poster child for exactly what is wrong with the current SOV mechanics.
Yet Deklein is operating at full capacity. It doesn't get denser than that.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
64
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:11:11 -
[428] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:come on a corm sniping fleet :) and it will cure your doubts ah yes the cormorant with its staggering 80-100km range
The PVE must be strong in you
you can hit to 110km with the corms for insta pop damage...and I would think that the mighty goons/CFC can field a huge fleet of perhaps 10 of them to kill ceptors...no?
Or is that beyond your PVP capabilities?
You seemed ok fielding 20+ celestis all the time to damp out fights ..so a few corms or any of th eother anti frig meta ships should be easy no?
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
635
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:11:28 -
[429] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: This is where living in your space helps.
deklein is the most populous and densest region in eve with the best indexes so i am not sure where you are going with this Deklin is a barren wasteland of empty useless space..where you could literally search for hours looking for targets outside of the main staging systems of the CFC and goons...and Deklin is the poster child for exactly what is wrong with the current SOV mechanics. you do realize all of us can trivially check dotlan and see that deklein is massively more occupied than anywhere else |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:11:47 -
[430] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Look, even if you don't believe the rail boats (and the better arty and beam boats) can make intys squish at 100+ (and they do), the Cerberus can be fit to hit past 140km with RLML.I trust everyone here knows what RLML does to an inty? nothing as it effortlessly burns outside of that range due to dscan, warp deceleration, and crappy lock time on the smallest signature ship in the game If it burns out of range, the entosis link deactivates, you win. Cerberus with 137km RLML Range (I lied it isn't 140, my bad lol): https://o.smium.org/new/5916218721826766848#modules,search Getting an inty to even lock past 137km is no small feat, but even THAT doesnt matter. Also, any decent rail boat (eagle, tengu, naga) will apply dps effectively well past that. The zomg-trollceptor crowd needs to stop being bad. uh you start moving the interceptor out of range if a caracal waddles onto grid, you don't just sit there and take it on the chin
caracal RLML misl takes 12 seconds to hit the target, at which point the interceptor has burned an additional 60km on the caracal
missiles don't hit if the target moves out of their effective range while the missiles are in flight
the point of the trollceptor isn't to effortlessly cap any objective, it's to cause an immense, logarithmically increasing amount of work for defenders while shouldering zero risk
it's mostly the risk part that is the issue, generating logarithmically increasing amounts of work is much less defensible considering the stated aims of the sov revamp to break up existing holdings
the only rebuttal I have seen from the pro-trollceptor crowd is little (wrong) vignettes about how easy it is to stop one ship from capturing one objective, when the problem is that it can hit any objective it wants without risk |
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
635
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:12:47 -
[431] - Quote
like seriously that deklein is, by far, the most inhabited and used region is an objective easily proven fact like that the sky is blue
trying to argue anything else just makes you look like an idiot even to npc posters supporting trollceptors |
Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
766
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:12:57 -
[432] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Yep 2 preformed fleets trying to chase multiple inty gangs around 3 regions sounds exactly like the problem that you're trying to frame as other people's issue. Unless of course you can ban these evil ceptors and just wait at a couple of convenient bubble camped gates. Now that'd be boringly easy to manage wouldn't it? How about you come to nullsec yourself and see how often we get fleets going for no greater reason than "It's monday, time to kill some stuff"? Forming an inty fleet is not the same as forming a supercap fleet. |
SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
67
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:12:58 -
[433] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: This is where living in your space helps.
deklein is the most populous and densest region in eve with the best indexes so i am not sure where you are going with this Deklin is a barren wasteland of empty useless space..where you could literally search for hours looking for targets outside of the main staging systems of the CFC and goons...and Deklin is the poster child for exactly what is wrong with the current SOV mechanics. And with the threat of losing systems the defending traffic will increase a lot. Or they will bleed systems. Thus, working as intended. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:13:10 -
[434] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:come on a corm sniping fleet :) and it will cure your doubts ah yes the cormorant with its staggering 80-100km range The PVE must be strong in you you can hit to 110km with the corms for insta pop damage...and I would think that the mighty goons/CFC can field a huge fleet of perhaps 10 of them to kill ceptors...no? Or is that beyond your PVP capabilities? You seemed ok fielding 20+ celestis all the time to damp out fights ..so a few corms or any of th eother anti frig meta ships should be easy no? cormorants have to arrive on grid and lock tiny interceptors before they can apply damage
whoops interceptors have dscan and see them coming from 14AU away |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15432
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:13:32 -
[435] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: Because they can be countered by a T1 ewar frig that's even cheaper - so long as there's someone awake in local anyways.
edit: Anyone noticed that goons have to blob the forums to try and win their arguments?
you counter an interceptor at one capture node / sov structure and it just shrugs and goes to another one nothing warps faster than an interceptor so enjoy spewing logarithmically increasing numbers of evemannen to bore out a single interceptor I think you mean "Nothing warps faster than an interceptor using an entosis link that can't even start its warp for 2 minutes..." And the fallacy is revealed...because pretty much everything other than a freighter can do that. ah yes the situation where you use PSYCHIC POWERS to determine which system the interceptor plans on hitting before its entosis module cycles and allows it to exit system Thats easily solved it you only own 1 system :) perhaps thats what you will have to do, if goons are incapable of the task to monitor more than one :)
1 system that can at best support 10 ratters hosting 40,000 pilots.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
335
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:13:36 -
[436] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:it's mostly the risk part that is the issue, generating logarithmically increasing amounts of work is much less defensible considering the stated aims of the sov revamp to break up existing holdings logarithmically increasing amounts of work for larger areas of space you need to defend?
By Jove you've nearly got it.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:16:19 -
[437] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:it's mostly the risk part that is the issue, generating logarithmically increasing amounts of work is much less defensible considering the stated aims of the sov revamp to break up existing holdings logarithmically increasing amounts of work for larger areas of space you need to defend? By Jove you've nearly got it. i'm plenty fine with this concept as long as the attacker is able to be caught and executed in a situation discounting serious pilot error
interceptors do not fit this category, and the fact that they can generate this logarithmically increasing amount of work at a minimum of cost and risk bodes much more poorly for the rest of eve than it does for us |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:16:48 -
[438] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
1 system that can at best support 10 ratters hosting 40,000 pilots.
I don't see what the other 120,000 of us are going to do if bat country's 40,000 pilots hog the anoms in the one system that we can manage to hold.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
|
SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
68
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:17:00 -
[439] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:MASSADEATH wrote: see we are a Guerrilla force... we strike and move....strike and move... we dont bash our heads into your 30,000 man alliance head on.... why would we?
"we don't do pvp, because we always lose" Just because they enjoy the game differently than your F1 monkeys doesn't mean they are doing it wrong. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:17:14 -
[440] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote: Deklin is a barren wasteland of empty useless space..where you could literally search for hours looking for targets outside of the main staging systems of the CFC and goons...and Deklin is the poster child for exactly what is wrong with the current SOV mechanics.
yeah sometimes you have to wait up to thirty minutes for a terrible membercorp to use the ya0 beacon |
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
313
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:17:17 -
[441] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Yep 2 preformed fleets trying to chase multiple inty gangs around 3 regions sounds exactly like the problem that you're trying to frame as other people's issue. Unless of course you can ban these evil ceptors and just wait at a couple of convenient bubble camped gates.
Now that'd be boringly easy to manage wouldn't it?
No, that's just Deklein home defense. |
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
242
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:17:32 -
[442] - Quote
afkalt wrote:You need to make who is using a link appear on the overview (like scrams/ewar to players do at the moment).
A purely "visual" effect will be impossible to get a hold of the right ship to target.
That's actually a great idea. An icon in the overview for ships with active entosis links.
Would be good if you had the option to add a UI override to make sure an otherwise not-visible ship shows up in the overview if they activate their link. |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
335
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:17:59 -
[443] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:i'm plenty fine with this concept as long as the attacker is able to be caught and executed in a situation discounting serious pilot error
interceptors do not fit this category, and the fact that they can generate this logarithmically increasing amount of work at a minimum of cost and risk bodes much more poorly for the rest of eve than it does for us An interceptor that CAN'T WARP OFF for 2 minutes - and that can be handed further penalties to sig radius, speed or MWD usage does fit that category.
Also google logarithmic versus linear - I thought you understood the difference but alas maybe not. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:18:07 -
[444] - Quote
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:MASSADEATH wrote: see we are a Guerrilla force... we strike and move....strike and move... we dont bash our heads into your 30,000 man alliance head on.... why would we?
"we don't do pvp, because we always lose" Just because they enjoy the game differently than your F1 monkeys doesn't mean they are doing it wrong. enjoying being camped into 5zxx by 15 chimeras long enough for them to jump clone back to empire is probably the weirdest fetish I have ever encountered in this crazy internet |
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
66
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:19:24 -
[445] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote: This is where living in your space helps.
deklein is the most populous and densest region in eve with the best indexes so i am not sure where you are going with this Deklin is a barren wasteland of empty useless space..where you could literally search for hours looking for targets outside of the main staging systems of the CFC and goons...and Deklin is the poster child for exactly what is wrong with the current SOV mechanics. you do realize all of us can trivially check dotlan and see that deklein is massively more occupied than anywhere else
by occupied do you mean eyes in every system to warn the ratters that a gang is coming? so they can dock up? since almost every system now has a station in it?
or by occupied do you mean that a fighting force is ready to respond to defend its sov?
or a fighting force like "theta" that is ready to protect its ratters :)
If you are so heavily "occupied" then it should be no problem defending your SOV space from a few "NPC TRASH" dwellers in frigates...
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ADMlNlSTRATOR
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
35
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:20:19 -
[446] - Quote
Is it true that using a Entosis Link on a sovereignty structure will NOT display any notifications to the players of the alliance owning the structure unless they are in the system under attack? Because, if so, it would highly disengage players from defending their space rather than engage them to undock and go defend their space. Some big alliances will used their existing IT infrastructure to query the API for such events, but even so, this information will probably be 10 minus late, if even available to normal players (think FC, Directors, CEO only). While there is the question whether you want small scale sovereignty attacks to be dependable with or without FCs, in order to get more people engaged, the attack notifications should be instantaneous and to all players in the alliance owning the structure under attack. |
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
66
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:20:47 -
[447] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:like seriously that deklein is, by far, the most inhabited and used region is an objective easily proven fact like that the sky is blue
trying to argue anything else just makes you look like an idiot even to npc posters supporting trollceptors
should be no problem defending that space then with it being so occupied then..so problem solved for you..
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:20:50 -
[448] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:i'm plenty fine with this concept as long as the attacker is able to be caught and executed in a situation discounting serious pilot error
interceptors do not fit this category, and the fact that they can generate this logarithmically increasing amount of work at a minimum of cost and risk bodes much more poorly for the rest of eve than it does for us An interceptor that CAN'T WARP OFF for 2 minutes - and that can be handed further penalties to sig radius, speed or MWD usage do fit that category. if the entosis module actually applied these maluses to the host ship then this conversation would be much different
but post #1 does not promise any of these things actually happening, so barring another 2 hour interview where they announce these critical details we are forced to assume they are not coming |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15433
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:20:54 -
[449] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:baltec1 wrote:
1 system that can at best support 10 ratters hosting 40,000 pilots.
I don't see what the other 120,000 of us are going to do if bat country's 40,000 pilots hog the anoms in the one system that we can manage to hold.
Warr taks up 5 systems just on his own...
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Mara Villoso
Long Jump.
107
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Posted - 2015.03.09 18:21:18 -
[450] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Probably the simplest solution is ship restrictions. No interceptors (bubble immunity), no covops ship.
Actually I would go as far as saying that the entosis link cannot be onlined if there is any type of cloaking device (covops or basic), on the ship.
So no interceptors, nothing with a cloaking device.
If you want to address the kiting ships, only allow the t2 version of the entosis device (the one at 250km), on battle cruisers and above.
You remove bubble immune ships from beginning captures, remove troll cloaky campers from entosising a system without any help, and remove kiters by making the long range version bc and above.
Yea you will have to put some restrictions on them unfortunately.
The alternative is to make the 250 km version so haneously expensive that people wouldn't use it on a frigate or cruiser. You can't target while cloaked and you can't warp with entosis link active. |
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