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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
654
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:08:30 -
[781] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote: UNFUN? undoing all of CFC and goon sov.... while endlessly sov trolling your area of influence into smaller and smaller chunks?
while collecting all the goon PVE tears?
well i mean you've already admitted there's no chance this is going to happen with having to place even a single ship at risk
so what you're basically saying is that you think this system is so unbalanced that you guys, a collection of poorly-organized pilots who flee in terror from a fight, think you could clear the most occupied region of the game
basically, post type 1: you know you can't ever win when there's the possibility you lose, so you want to have ccp make sure you can't possibly lose
however while making these posts you need to remember when i'm responding to a post type 2 ("how does interceptors work" or post type 3 ("what is a bore-off i don't understand how someone's time can be worth anything") i'm explaining why different things are wrong so you can't just cherry-pick something from there and drop it in here
what those people are arguing (including one guy who used to be in moa and found that so shameful he's now in an n3 pet) is that trollceptors are actually too boring to use so nobody will use them. i'm saying they will. you're trying to put their words in my mouth |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2638
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:09:02 -
[782] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: Maulus damps well past any max ceptor lockrange. Can damp 4 trollceptors at once. One cycle --> GG sov lazor.
[Insert inevitable "I don't want to have to cycle my ewar module once to lol-troll a bunch of ceptors" comment]
/thread
interceptor disengages, finds another target it is like you are fundamentally unable to conceive of a situation where there is more than one objective at play even an alliance owning a single system can have up to three Interceptor has another 40 minute timer in which his sov lazor gets damped.
It's like you are fundamentally unable to concieve of a situation where an interceptor won't waste 40 minutes after 40 minutes of his life in a futile attempt to capture an occupied system.
Troll ceptor only viable for unoccupied and undefended systems. You not being able to hold unoccupied and undefended systems is a good thing. Ergo, troll ceptor not problem. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6579
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:09:06 -
[783] - Quote
Acuma wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:https://i.imgur.com/dZoUBJK.jpg 45 DPS at 124km, your interceptor is dead in under a minute (55.5 seconds, yes I did the math) It's also a fifth the cost. Your move. please do not post fits that only kill the interceptor inside of a very short, narrow range where the interceptor would not be in any even remotely plausible pvp scenario basically only post RLML fits, and even then i hope you have 200km+ range "look at the graph it has a point this is where I can guarantee a ship to be at all times" Maulus damps well past any max ceptor lockrange. Can damp 4 trollceptors at once. One cycle --> GG sov lazor. [Insert inevitable "I don't want to have to cycle my ewar module once to lol-troll a bunch of ceptors" comment] /thread interceptor disengages, finds another target it is like you are fundamentally unable to conceive of a situation where there is more than one objective at play even an alliance owning a single system can have up to three Your objective is to spend 20-30 minutes in an active system to waste about 2-4 minutes of the defender and nothing else? Have fun with that.....I will enjoy the countless man hours wasted by these supposed "burn down all of nullsec trollceptors!" wait, i thought moa was going to end our 0.0 nightmare and it was terrifying us...
is that not the case anymore?
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6579
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:10:19 -
[784] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:MASSADEATH wrote: UNFUN? undoing all of CFC and goon sov.... while endlessly sov trolling your area of influence into smaller and smaller chunks?
while collecting all the goon PVE tears?
well i mean you've already admitted there's no chance this is going to happen with having to place even a single ship at risk so what you're basically saying is that you think this system is so unbalanced that you guys, a collection of poorly-organized pilots who flee in terror from a fight, think you could clear the most occupied region of the game basically, post type 1: you know you can't ever win when there's the possibility you lose, so you want to have ccp make sure you can't possibly lose however while making these posts you need to remember when i'm responding to a post type 2 ("how does interceptors work" or post type 3 ("what is a bore-off i don't understand how someone's time can be worth anything") i'm explaining why different things are wrong so you can't just cherry-pick something from there and drop it in here what those people are arguing (including one guy who used to be in moa and found that so shameful he's now in an n3 pet) is that trollceptors are actually too boring to use so nobody will use them. i'm saying they will. you're trying to put their words in my mouth Worst case scenario: No one but goons bothers, we end everyone else's 0.0 dream
Second-best case: everyone bothers, everyone's 0.0 dream is ended
??? Case: no one bothers; status quo (except with more interceptors)
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
610
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:10:35 -
[785] - Quote
Acuma wrote:Your objective is to spend 20-30 minutes in an active system to waste about 2-4 minutes of the defender and nothing else? Have fun with that.....I will enjoy the countless man hours wasted by these supposed "burn down all of nullsec trollceptors!"
no, the attacking interceptor gets to disengage within 2m of getting caught
for the basic math challenged, 2 minutes is a lot shorter time than 20-30 minutes |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2638
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:10:45 -
[786] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: wait, i thought moa was going to end our 0.0 nightmare and it was terrifying us...
is that not the case anymore?
Idk what any alliance is planning, but the fact that their interceptors scarred you lot for life is hilarious. |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
654
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:10:50 -
[787] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: Interceptor has another 40 minute timer in which his sov lazor gets damped.
It's like you are fundamentally unable to concieve of a situation where an interceptor won't waste 40 minutes after 40 minutes of his life in a futile attempt to capture an occupied system.
Troll ceptor only viable for unoccupied and undefended systems. You not being able to hold unoccupied and undefended systems is a good thing. Ergo, troll ceptor not problem.
could you and your illiterate former alliance mate please get together and agree on if he's going to trollceptor or not |
1nverted
What Could Go Wrong Overload Everything
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:11:06 -
[788] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We have all of the numerous tools of EVE module balance at our disposal and everything is on the table. We can use everything from module price, range, fittings, cap use, mass penalties, ship restrictions, speed limits and many many more. We intend to use as few of these dials as possible and use the lightest touch possible, but we do have the tools we need to reach these goals.
We would like this thread to become a place of discussion around the Entosis Link mechanics, the ships that you expect to use them on, and the tactics you foresee becoming popular. What issues do you foresee popping up? How do you think these goals should be adjusted or refocused? Which of the many module balance dials do you think would be the most intuitive?
Thanks -Fozzie
(emphasis added)
Hi Fozzie,
I think the majority of the legitimate concerns re the entosis relate to kiting fits that can't be caught. Could there simply be a 3500m/s limit placed on ships using a link? This would preserve kiting comps but would allow 'trollceptors' to be dealt with relatively easily.
As to what shiptypes should be able to use the link, I agree that it should be left as open as possible. I disagree with the people saying it should only be used on battlecruisers and battleships. That limitation eliminates some very respectable fleet doctrines that are used in null today. Specifically, assault frigate doctrines like harpies. It also eliminates comps that may yet still become important such as tech 3 destroyers. Small signature comps like harpies and others should remain part of the null-sec sov meta.
That said, battleships and battlecruisers will need some love under the new system to offset their low mobility. I have seen elsewhere suggestions of the module coming in small, medium and large sizes. Perhaps the different module sizes could have different cycle times such that battleship modules will cycle faster. This could offset their lower mobility by allowing them to capture command nodes quicker once they do reach a node.
Love your work so far, especially how you are going about getting feedback and trying to focus the debate in threads like this. Also thanks for going on the evedownunder show and listening to specific AUTZ concerns!
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
610
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:11:29 -
[789] - Quote
also fyi the timer can only be 40 minutes if the system has an industrial index of 5
there are no regions in the game with an average industrial index above one except providence |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2638
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:11:54 -
[790] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Acuma wrote:Your objective is to spend 20-30 minutes in an active system to waste about 2-4 minutes of the defender and nothing else? Have fun with that.....I will enjoy the countless man hours wasted by these supposed "burn down all of nullsec trollceptors!"
no, the attacking interceptor gets to disengage within 2m of getting caught for the basic math challenged, 2 minutes is a lot shorter time than 20-30 minutes For the basic Math challenged:
Ceptor is on minute 38 of his sov lazor. Maulus warps in, damps, warps off. Ceptor never picks up sov lazor again. |
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Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
349
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:12:04 -
[791] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Acuma wrote:Your objective is to spend 20-30 minutes in an active system to waste about 2-4 minutes of the defender and nothing else? Have fun with that.....I will enjoy the countless man hours wasted by these supposed "burn down all of nullsec trollceptors!"
no, the attacking interceptor gets to disengage within 2m of getting caught for the basic math challenged, 2 minutes is a lot shorter time than 20-30 minutes And for the perfect troll response, you only put the maulus on grid after they wasted 30 minutes already...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UB1YAsPD6U
I mean sure you could do it instantly if you live and use the space actively, but where's the fun in that? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6579
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:12:16 -
[792] - Quote
How cute, actually thinking this is properly going to be read with all these posts spewing in.
It's like sovtrolling, you gotta be on all the Post Nodes
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
654
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:12:49 -
[793] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: Idk what any alliance is planning, but the fact that their interceptors scarred you lot for life is hilarious.
i suppose i need to add post type 4: "im tired of getting beaten like a rented mule so im going to just invent my own reality", otherwise known as the potato word salad |
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
698
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:13:02 -
[794] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:...all that fits...
Based on the average fit quality in this thread none of the alliances posting should hold sov atm and would lose it the first day they would. Basically every argument made so far is "Im too ******** to catch a inty I should hold sov though"
RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6579
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:13:14 -
[795] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:also fyi the timer can only be 40 minutes if the system has an industrial index of 5
there are no regions in the game with an average industrial index above one except providence Something about mining....
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Hoshi
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
54
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:13:46 -
[796] - Quote
Yes defending your sov should take commitment BUT attacking sov needs to be an equal commitment. Any system that allows someone to troll sov with no commitment and minimal danger is a broken system.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6168
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:14:33 -
[797] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote: 45 DPS at 124km, your interceptor is dead in under a minute (55.5 seconds, yes I did the math)
It's also a fifth the cost. Your move. Also, yes it has remote sebos. If you can't get two guys together to defend your space against an interceptor in your prime time, what are you doing in sov?
post type #2: is unaware of how interceptors work specifically, is unaware that an interceptor is not there 55 seconds later Well, if he's not there then he's someone else's problem. If you are in an alliance that actually only claims the space people live in, that's not an issue.
"Hey Fred, he's headed your way. Let him waste about 30 minutes before you stop him eh? I've got a couple of things to do first".
or alternatively.
"Wow, these 50 trollceptors have been in and out of here a lot over the last hour. Made me come out and stop them twice already. Whose got the next hour?"
"Sigh, that's me. I'll finish up what I'm doing and head over there in a half hour to take over. Steve, you're up after me".
"Sure, be glad to... I"m just surfin' pron at the moment anyway".
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
610
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:15:21 -
[798] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Acuma wrote:Your objective is to spend 20-30 minutes in an active system to waste about 2-4 minutes of the defender and nothing else? Have fun with that.....I will enjoy the countless man hours wasted by these supposed "burn down all of nullsec trollceptors!"
no, the attacking interceptor gets to disengage within 2m of getting caught for the basic math challenged, 2 minutes is a lot shorter time than 20-30 minutes For the basic Math challenged: Ceptor is on minute 38 of his sov lazor. Maulus warps in, damps, warps off. Ceptor never picks up sov lazor again. the fact that you are resorting to such a restricted, unrealistic vignette is betraying your desperation |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6579
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:15:31 -
[799] - Quote
Hoshi wrote:Yes defending your sov should take commitment BUT attacking sov needs to be an equal commitment. Any system that allows someone to troll sov with no commitment and minimal danger is a broken system. Change your 0.0 dream to "ending everyone else's 0.0 dream"
Join moa in npc null and then end our 0.0 nightmate. Then claim victory and run mordus missions for pancake ships
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
654
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:15:50 -
[800] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote: 45 DPS at 124km, your interceptor is dead in under a minute (55.5 seconds, yes I did the math)
It's also a fifth the cost. Your move. Also, yes it has remote sebos. If you can't get two guys together to defend your space against an interceptor in your prime time, what are you doing in sov?
post type #2: is unaware of how interceptors work specifically, is unaware that an interceptor is not there 55 seconds later Well, if he's not there then he's someone else's problem. If you are in an alliance that actually only claims the space people live in, that's not an issue. "Hey Fred, he's headed your way. Let him waste about 30 minutes before you stop him eh? I've got a couple of things to do first". or alternatively. "Wow, these 50 trollceptors have been in and out of here a lot over the last hour. Made me come out and stop them twice already. Whose got the next hour?" "Sigh, that's me. I'll finish up what I'm doing and head over there in a half hour to take over. Steve, you're up after me". "Sure, be glad to... I"m just surfin' pron at the moment anyway". post type 3: lets turn this entire game into a bore-off |
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
613
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:16:11 -
[801] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: Idk what any alliance is planning, but the fact that their interceptors scarred you lot for life is hilarious.
i suppose i need to add post type 4: "im tired of getting beaten like a rented mule so im going to just invent my own reality", otherwise known as the potato word salad this is funny because potato salad is a real thing |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
349
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:16:28 -
[802] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:the fact that you are resorting to such a restricted, unrealistic vignette is betraying your desperation Like reducing a mechanic down to just one (attempted) troll use of it? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6582
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:16:49 -
[803] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Acuma wrote:Your objective is to spend 20-30 minutes in an active system to waste about 2-4 minutes of the defender and nothing else? Have fun with that.....I will enjoy the countless man hours wasted by these supposed "burn down all of nullsec trollceptors!"
no, the attacking interceptor gets to disengage within 2m of getting caught for the basic math challenged, 2 minutes is a lot shorter time than 20-30 minutes For the basic Math challenged: Ceptor is on minute 38 of his sov lazor. Maulus warps in, damps, warps off. Ceptor never picks up sov lazor again. the fact that you are resorting to such a restricted, unrealistic vignette is betraying your desperation So basically... our 0.0 dream won't be ended by moa after we damp them a few times?
No, this can't be... massadeath promised it would be over...
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
613
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:17:17 -
[804] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:the fact that you are resorting to such a restricted, unrealistic vignette is betraying your desperation Like reducing a mechanic down to just one (attempted) troll use of it? there's no desperation in pointing out that interceptors are unbalanced in fozziesov
it's a little thing i like to call "objective fact" |
Yroc Jannseen
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
68
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:17:26 -
[805] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: Maulus damps well past any max ceptor lockrange. Can damp 4 trollceptors at once. One cycle --> GG sov lazor.
[Insert inevitable "I don't want to have to cycle my ewar module once to lol-troll a bunch of ceptors" comment]
/thread
interceptor disengages, finds another target it is like you are fundamentally unable to conceive of a situation where there is more than one objective at play even an alliance owning a single system can have up to three Interceptor has another 40 minute timer in which his sov lazor gets damped. It's like you are fundamentally unable to concieve of a situation where an interceptor won't waste 40 minutes after 40 minutes of his life in a futile attempt to capture an occupied system. Troll ceptor only viable for unoccupied and undefended systems. You not being able to hold unoccupied and undefended systems is a good thing. Ergo, troll ceptor not problem.
You keep throwing this 40 minute number around. How many systems do you really think are going to have industry 5? Do you think this is enough motivation to get people out and mine the ludicrous amount that's required to reach and maintain industry 5? |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2638
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:17:28 -
[806] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote: post type 3: lets turn this entire game into a bore-off
Post type 4: Cycling my damps once is too boring!!!
I'll throw in another one free of charge: Post type 5: Grrrrrrr In-terrr-sep-torrrrrrrr, Grrrrrrrr. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10146
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:17:38 -
[807] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:MASSADEATH wrote: UNFUN? undoing all of CFC and goon sov.... while endlessly sov trolling your area of influence into smaller and smaller chunks?
while collecting all the goon PVE tears?
well i mean you've already admitted there's no chance this is going to happen with having to place even a single ship at risk so what you're basically saying is that you think this system is so unbalanced that you guys, a collection of poorly-organized pilots who flee in terror from a fight, think you could clear the most occupied region of the game
What you are describing is what happens in all of these discussions, and why the discussions never have the kind of value they should. Someone comes up with an ides, some group (usually goons) WARNS everyone who things will be abused. People biased against that group "or all groups of that type) instantly believe there is some self serving ulterior motive and thus fail to heed the warning.
If the change then happens and the big group then proceeds to do exactly what they warned they would, the dumb people who didn't heed the warning use it as another reason to hate the big group lol. If it weren't so sad, it would be funny.
Personally, I'm just bookmarking posts to be trotted out in the months after all these changes happen. Realized a long time ago (in real life) that it's fruitless to tell a dreamer type person (or a kid ) that a bright idea they have isn't going to work. Much better to let them fail and teach them why after the fact. |
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
584
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:17:48 -
[808] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
This also means that we don't want to be using the Entosis Links to intentionally manipulate ship use. We've seen some people suggesting that we restrict Entosis Links to battleships, command ships or capital ships in order to buff those classes. Using the Entosis Link mechanics to artificially skew the meta in that way is not something we are interested in doing. This goal is why we intend to use the lightest touch possible when working towards the first two goals. It would be easy to overreact to potentially unwanted uses of the Entosis Link by placing extremely harsh restrictions on the module, but we believe that by looking at the situation in a calm and measured manner we can find a good balance.
This is a good goal. It's also a bad design strategy, and as a result the goal will never be achieved. When EVERYTHING can use the sovlaser, EVERYTHING affects it's balance. From a design standpoint, there's no way to balance the sovlaser in a direct, targeted manner. It absolutely must place severe restrictions on the ship using it. That, or be limited to certain ship types, or even one ship type. Personally, I prefer putting restricions on the module. Deactivating prop mods while active would be ideal, since it affects the rest of the fit only slightly but makes the sovlaser ship vulnerable to all types of conventional counters.
Overhaul Dscan!
Make your own rules - Noobs to Null / Casual Vets Corp
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2638
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:18:38 -
[809] - Quote
Yroc Jannseen wrote: You keep throwing this 40 minute number around. How many systems do you really think are going to have industry 5? Do you think this is enough motivation to get people out and mine the ludicrous amount that's required to reach and maintain industry 5?
It's about as ludicrous as the hypothetical 150km locking interceptors that people are tossing around. |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
657
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:18:52 -
[810] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote: post type 3: lets turn this entire game into a bore-off
Post type 4: Cycling my damps once is too boring!!! I'll throw in another one free of charge: Post type 5: Grrrrrrr In-terrr-sep-torrrrrrrr, Grrrrrrrr. "potato word salad" post, mixed in with trying to make "fetch" happen (it's not going to happen) |
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