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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6583
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:30:33 -
[841] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote:40 minute capture time. i see you're not actually leaving, but there are virtually no systems with 40 minute capture time. 27.5m is the maximum you'll see except for the rare mining system. more to the point though, all you're doing is trying to justify a bore-off. Boredom is an important part of the eve meta
Just as one applies dps to destroy a hull, one applies boredom to remove the pilot
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
663
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:30:47 -
[842] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote: Well said. They had better happy with what they have. CCP is definitely waging an income nerf war. The NullSec trough has been way to generous for years compared to CCP's bottom line.
dinsdale? is that you? |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
613
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:30:53 -
[843] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:some people need to have things repeated to them in order to understand them
some more than others i guess One last bite. 40 minute capture time. 10 minute to undo that capture. How many warps does my maulus need to do to end up 30 minutes behind your ceptor? Fin. 40 minute cap time is extremely rare, only 2 systems in deklein even fit that territory and lol for the rest of the universe
here is the secret wisdom
even if the attacker manages to accomplish nothing, he still wins, and at no time did he ever risk anything |
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
69
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:30:57 -
[844] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote: 45 DPS at 124km, your interceptor is dead in under a minute (55.5 seconds, yes I did the math)
It's also a fifth the cost. Your move. Also, yes it has remote sebos. If you can't get two guys together to defend your space against an interceptor in your prime time, what are you doing in sov?
post type #2: is unaware of how interceptors work specifically, is unaware that an interceptor is not there 55 seconds later Well, if he's not there then he's someone else's problem. If you are in an alliance that actually only claims the space people live in, that's not an issue. "Hey Fred, he's headed your way. Let him waste about 30 minutes before you stop him eh? I've got a couple of things to do first". or alternatively. "Wow, these 50 trollceptors have been in and out of here a lot over the last hour. Made me come out and stop them twice already. Whose got the next hour?" "Sigh, that's me. I'll finish up what I'm doing and head over there in a half hour to take over. Steve, you're up after me". "Sure, be glad to... I"m just surfin' pron at the moment anyway".
You are not understanding the goons fear.... they know what will happen...just like the way we hunt thier ratters....
you start to sov troll...they respond... we counter drop...blap thier response fleet .....rinse and repeat...
UNLESS they respond in blob numbers they fail.... and in that case you dont counter drop them..you just move onto the next system.... its AWESOME...
but they cant do that all over the place...thats the crux ...
we can decide what areas to attack..... however they can only respond to a few....not all..... the ones they dont respond too will fall...
until they reach an equilibrium of the size of space they can respond too...
you see.... they dont want to lose any ratting space..... IF They do.... infighting begins..who can rat where...you stole my rats..... ect ect.... i dont have enough rats....you took my rats...
you have to understand that each CFC alliance has their own ratting space..that will turn crappy if they lose their bonus's
who has bets on what CFC alliance is booted first? I put money on SMA
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SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
73
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:31:10 -
[845] - Quote
Quote:The offensive power of Fozzie Sovereignty is completely out of balance. The defender has to be able to defend everywhere, but has no opportunity to fortify or entrench his position. Then stop trying to have sov everywhere. Just take what you need and can defend. The concept is not new or difficult to grasp. |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
349
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:31:37 -
[846] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote: 40 minute capture time.
i see you're not actually leaving, but there are virtually no systems with 40 minute capture time. 27.5m is the maximum you'll see except for the rare mining system. more to the point though, all you're doing is trying to justify a bore-off. I'm using the maximum for effect - we can do 27minutes instead and still have a 29:12 ratio of time wasted by the trollceptor pilot versus the defender. Point still stands.
edit: And just done with replying to the ship-toaster not the thread in general :) |
Erasmus Grant
EVE University Ivy League
20
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:32:35 -
[847] - Quote
Guess the one or two post I made suggesting that Battle-cruisers should be the smallest ship that can fit an E-Link is too vocal. Guess I will no longer give feedback anymore. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
613
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:33:04 -
[848] - Quote
i do like how the conversation has morphed into an excruciating exploration of whose time is more wasted
this is surely relevant to the point that interceptors can do what they do without risking death |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
663
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:33:25 -
[849] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote: You are not understanding the goons fear.... they know what will happen...just like the way we hunt thier ratters....
so poorly that deklein remains the most heavily ratted region in the game by far, as admitted by noted goon propagandist gevlon goblin? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6168
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:33:37 -
[850] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:For the basic Math challenged:
Ceptor is on minute 38 of his sov lazor. Maulus warps in, damps, warps off. Ceptor never picks up sov lazor again. For the basic math challenged: 40 minutes requires Sov Indices of 5/5/5. In all of EVE, there is no system like that. The most heavily-defended sov indices anywhere outside of Providence (which manages, I believe, a few systems with an industrial index of 2) produces a timer of 27m. So keep planning on responding at minute 38. In addition, damping the aggressor at minute 38 does not reset the structure to 0. It leaves the structure 95% RF'd. (38/40) The attacker needs only 2 minutes to re-establish link, and another 2 minutes (in the mythical 5/5/5 system) of continued operation to finish the process. Now, this only requires 2 minutes + 9 minutes, 30 seconds (95% of 10 minutes), or 11:30 of defensive entosising to undo. But during those 11:30, the response ship isn't chasing the interceptor. If there's a reasonably-sized defensive group, yes, the interceptor's work can be undone. If not, though, then after being 'chased off' from the structure, he'll hit another one, forcing the maulus to follow behind. What happens next depends entirely on how intelligent the maulus pilot is. If the maulus gives immediate chase, the interceptor pilot will burn about 3 minutes of travel away - assuming the maulus continues to give chase. He'll do this in a way that encourages the maulus to follow - delaying when he jumps, delaying when he drops cloak and warps off, etc. He'll then proceed to continue burning away, but do so with an eye toward losing the maulus - warp to a planet near a gate and doubleback, etc. At that point, he burns back to that structure, which does not send up another warning ping until his first cycle of 2m has completed. If the maulus has not already doubled back a fair chunk of the way, the RF will complete before he can interrupt again. If, on the other hand, the maulus immediately entosises his own structure to repair the link damage, the interceptor will begin the process at another structure, which will ping after 2 minutes (again, the completion of his first cycle). This will come shortly after the maulus's first cycle completes, which means the maulus pilot will only have enough time in re-linking as it took the interceptor pilot to find a new target. The maulus pilot should not respond to the new ping. Finish the repairs, then respond. It will take less time to undo the linkage. An intelligent maulus pilot will be able to follow and counter the work of a single interceptor pretty consistently this way. Here's the problem: This hinges on that important concept: 'an intelligent maulus pilot'. The maulus pilot, being human, is probably an idiot. Most of us are. vOv Or, if you are only claiming sov where your people actually live, the Malus pilot goes back to whatever he wants to do and lets the guy living in that new system take care of it like he's supposed to....
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MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
69
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:33:44 -
[851] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Acuma wrote:Your objective is to spend 20-30 minutes in an active system to waste about 2-4 minutes of the defender and nothing else? Have fun with that.....I will enjoy the countless man hours wasted by these supposed "burn down all of nullsec trollceptors!"
no, the attacking interceptor gets to disengage within 2m of getting caught for the basic math challenged, 2 minutes is a lot shorter time than 20-30 minutes For the basic Math challenged: Ceptor is on minute 38 of his sov lazor. Maulus warps in, damps, warps off. Ceptor never picks up sov lazor again. the fact that you are resorting to such a restricted, unrealistic vignette is betraying your desperation So basically... our 0.0 dream won't be ended by moa after we damp them a few times? No, this can't be... massadeath promised it would be over...
you know the answer :) how many nights of the week do we attack you in your space ...every night
how many nights of the week will we attack your sov giving the new mechanics....
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
613
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:34:30 -
[852] - Quote
Erasmus Grant wrote:Guess the one or two post I made suggesting that Battle-cruisers should be the smallest ship that can fit an E-Link is too vocal. Guess I will no longer give feedback anymore. realtalk, this is a travesty
if ccp would actually take a stance on this, even one that they end up revising later, we might be able to redact several dozen pages of this thread
alas, while the unknown percolates, we must post |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
663
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:34:39 -
[853] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote: I'm using the maximum for effect - we can do 27minutes instead and still have a 29:12 ratio of time wasted by the trollceptor pilot versus the defender. Point still stands.
edit: And just done with replying to the ship-toaster not the thread in general :)
so yes, we remain in a bore-off but without the thin advantage of a massive inbalance in favor of the defender, merely a moderate one
what fun |
sayasic
Fog Industries The Methodical Alliance
6
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:35:35 -
[854] - Quote
Simple solution: T2 Module requires 150 powergrid.
Interceptors and other frigates cannot fit it. Cruisers can but at a moderate price. Battleships and larger the powergrid is near negligable. |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
349
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:35:50 -
[855] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote:you know the answer :) how many nights of the week do we attack you in your space ...every night
how many nights of the week will we attack your sov giving the new mechanics.... The other nice thing is disrupting PvE in a system to lower the indices making it much easier to cap at a later date...
Trollceptors won't work for actual pvp like that but an afk cloaky will :) |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6585
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:37:00 -
[856] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote: I'm using the maximum for effect - we can do 27minutes instead and still have a 29:12 ratio of time wasted by the trollceptor pilot versus the defender. Point still stands.
edit: And just done with replying to the ship-toaster not the thread in general :)
so yes, we remain in a bore-off but without the thin advantage of a massive inbalance in favor of the defender, merely a moderate one what fun Sounds perfect. Good thing we have trained interceptors or at least t1 ewar frigates.
I guess this means we have to play defend the 0.0 dream
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
349
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:37:18 -
[857] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote: I'm using the maximum for effect - we can do 27minutes instead and still have a 29:12 ratio of time wasted by the trollceptor pilot versus the defender. Point still stands.
edit: And just done with replying to the ship-toaster not the thread in general :)
so yes, we remain in a bore-off but without the thin advantage of a massive inbalance in favor of the defender, merely a moderate one what fun If someone chooses to engage in trollceptor fleets - it's them that's forcing the boredom on each other - there's no rule that says you may only use a trollceptor to attempt a sov take over!
It sounds like the kind of attritional grinding that some Sov holders enjoy participating in tbh. |
Aiyshimin
Fistful of Finns Triumvirate.
448
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:37:19 -
[858] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:
Its not their own space they worry about, its their rented space. Currently hundreds of renters dock up when 5-man gang in T1 ships shows up 3 systems away, and stay docked until the gang leaves. ting. In sov 2.0, pvp is the reason to be in null.
try getting dudes into their corps and awoxing the renters basically be better at eve
I don't have to, Fozzie fixes sov this June
Summer is coming |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
664
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:37:50 -
[859] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:MASSADEATH wrote:you know the answer :) how many nights of the week do we attack you in your space ...every night
how many nights of the week will we attack your sov giving the new mechanics.... The other nice thing is disrupting PvE in a system to lower the indices making it much easier to cap at a later date... Trollceptors won't work for actual pvp like that but an afk cloaky will :) moa tried that
their fleets got smashed so often when they tried to bridge people in they stopped and tried to gank ratters with just the stealth bomber, and kept losing that to afktar drones automatically attacking it :laffo: |
davet517
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:37:55 -
[860] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
If the change then happens and the big group then proceeds to do exactly what they warned they would, the dumb people who didn't heed the warning use it as another reason to hate the big group lol. If it weren't so sad, it would be funny.
I'll ask again, who, exactly, do you think they are going to do it to who cant return the favor in spades? The other coalitions renters? I'm not sure that anyone other than those renters has a problem with that, and when you go down that road, be prepared to lose your own renters. They're threatening to grief some fantasy small sov holder that doesn't actually exist, and won't exist, unless and until the coalitions break up.
Actually, the fantasy scenario for most unaligned folks is for the two coalitions to grief each other into the ground while they hammer away from NPC space, so, swing away.
I kind of think that the same oligarchs who negotiated botlord will avoid that, though. They won't attack each other's soft renter underbellies and swaths of barely occupied systems. That'll be the privilege of others. |
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SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
74
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:37:56 -
[861] - Quote
Erasmus Grant wrote:Guess the one or two post I made suggesting that Battle-cruisers should be the smallest ship that can fit an E-Link is too vocal. Guess I will no longer give feedback anymore. The problem with that is you start limiting the meta dramatically, which is bad. It is obvious in this thread and the previous that simply being active in a system you have sov in is enough of a counter. Requiring BC or larger just means outer lying regions continue to be afk risk free empires due to camping a couple choke points. Which again, is bad. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
314
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:38:06 -
[862] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:So what you're saying is that the maulus pilots only need to spend a fraction of the time sitting/orbitting a structure to undo this troll...
And of course you assume that the maulus pilot isn't just a local bear that docked up and swapped ships quickly to defend his current system rather than chasing the interceptor to systems...that aren't his system?
Genius.
Oh, I don't think there's any doubt that the maulus pilots only need a fraction of the time sitting/orbitting a structure to undo the troll. Nor do I think there's any reason not to believe that the maulus pilot isn't a local nullbear who's swapped over to a defensive ship. In doing so, though, he's eating into his 'making money' time. And ostensibly, the reason he makes his money that way is that's what he enjoys doing. The troll pilot, on the other hand, enjoys trolling. So one side is getting what they want (provoking a reaction), while the other side is not (interrupting their planned activities to deal with the troll).
Ultimately, it's a question of which side (trolls vs residents) gets tired of doing it first. And if the history of online social interaction has shown us anything - completely setting aside 'Goons' or 'Eve' or even online gaming and going right back to 40+ years of usenet etc - is that trolls will keep on trolling just as long as they can get a reaction. Even showing up to put a stop to their activities only yields 'umad bro? lololol'.
The only response that doesn't feed the troll, as it were, is to ignore them - which in this case, means they RF your stuff.
Utlimately, the troll can't lose, if all he wants to do is troll. Can the defenders keep their space intact? Sure. But the troll can't lose. Not even if he gets stopped. Not even if he gets blown up. Because he's trolling, and you reacted. And that's what gets him off - feeling like he's made you play his game, not yours. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2638
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:38:41 -
[863] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote: I'm using the maximum for effect - we can do 27minutes instead and still have a 29:12 ratio of time wasted by the trollceptor pilot versus the defender. Point still stands.
edit: And just done with replying to the ship-toaster not the thread in general :)
so yes, we remain in a bore-off but without the thin advantage of a massive inbalance in favor of the defender, merely a moderate one what fun Defender advantage is a key contributor to overall stagnation in sov. Reducing that is a good thing. |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
664
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:38:48 -
[864] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote: If someone chooses to engage in trollceptor fleets - it's them that's forcing the boredom on each other - there's no rule that says you may only use a trollceptor to attempt a sov take over!
It sounds like the kind of attritional grinding that some Sov holders enjoy participating in tbh.
there's no rule that says you can't fit mining lasers to a titan either, but nobody does because it doesn't make a lick of sense to do it except as a joke |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6168
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:39:38 -
[865] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote: I'm using the maximum for effect - we can do 27minutes instead and still have a 29:12 ratio of time wasted by the trollceptor pilot versus the defender. Point still stands.
edit: And just done with replying to the ship-toaster not the thread in general :)
so yes, we remain in a bore-off but without the thin advantage of a massive inbalance in favor of the defender, merely a moderate one what fun The only real disadvantage is being inflicted on sov holders with more systems than they can cover... everybody else is just fine., thanks.
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6585
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:39:43 -
[866] - Quote
davet517 wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
If the change then happens and the big group then proceeds to do exactly what they warned they would, the dumb people who didn't heed the warning use it as another reason to hate the big group lol. If it weren't so sad, it would be funny.
I'll ask again, who, exactly, do you think they are going to do it to who cant return the favor in spades? The other coalitions renters? I'm not sure that anyone other than those renters has a problem with that, and when you go down that road, be prepared to lose your own renters. They're threatening to grief some fantasy small sov holder that doesn't actually exist, and won't exist, unless and until the coalitions break up. Actually, the fantasy scenario for most unaligned folks is for the two coalitions to grief each other into the ground while they hammer away from NPC space, so, swing away. I kind of think that the same oligarchs who negotiated botlord will avoid that, though. They won't attack each other's soft renter underbellies and swaths of barely occupied systems. That'll be the privilege of others. No way, you mean even more not-blue-but-we-have-agreements is what will come out of this? But I thought it was supposed to shake up null
Then... who will end our 0.0 nightmare?!?
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
314
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:39:44 -
[867] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:MASSADEATH wrote: You are not understanding the goons fear.... they know what will happen...just like the way we hunt thier ratters....
so poorly that deklein remains the most heavily ratted region in the game by far, as admitted by noted goon propagandist gevlon goblin?
With 20% less pvp activity than before Phoebe, even. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6585
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 21:41:10 -
[868] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Eli Apol wrote:So what you're saying is that the maulus pilots only need to spend a fraction of the time sitting/orbitting a structure to undo this troll...
And of course you assume that the maulus pilot isn't just a local bear that docked up and swapped ships quickly to defend his current system rather than chasing the interceptor to systems...that aren't his system?
Genius.
Oh, I don't think there's any doubt that the maulus pilots only need a fraction of the time sitting/orbitting a structure to undo the troll. Nor do I think there's any reason not to believe that the maulus pilot isn't a local nullbear who's swapped over to a defensive ship. In doing so, though, he's eating into his 'making money' time. And ostensibly, the reason he makes his money that way is that's what he enjoys doing. The troll pilot, on the other hand, enjoys trolling. So one side is getting what they want (provoking a reaction), while the other side is not (interrupting their planned activities to deal with the troll). Ultimately, it's a question of which side (trolls vs residents) gets tired of doing it first. And if the history of online social interaction has shown us anything - completely setting aside 'Goons' or 'Eve' or even online gaming and going right back to 40+ years of usenet etc - is that trolls will keep on trolling just as long as they can get a reaction. Even showing up to put a stop to their activities only yields 'umad bro? lololol'. The only response that doesn't feed the troll, as it were, is to ignore them - which in this case, means they RF your stuff. Utlimately, the troll can't lose, if all he wants to do is troll. Can the defenders keep their space intact? Sure. But the troll can't lose. Not even if he gets stopped. Not even if he gets blown up. Because he's trolling, and you reacted. And that's what gets him off - feeling like he's made you play his game, not yours. Hmmm I see
so even if moa can't ever win against us, if they have no sov anyway they can't ever lose
but we will lose eventually unless of course we are alive when eve dies... but otherwise they can just predict that our 0.0 dream will end eventually...
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
349
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:41:22 -
[869] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote: If someone chooses to engage in trollceptor fleets - it's them that's forcing the boredom on each other - there's no rule that says you may only use a trollceptor to attempt a sov take over!
It sounds like the kind of attritional grinding that some Sov holders enjoy participating in tbh.
there's no rule that says you can't fit mining lasers to a titan either, but nobody does because it doesn't make a lick of sense to do it except as a joke Sure, you guys can spend other people's primetimes just trolling them - idk maybe people that actually want to take sov will turn up with fleets or put a cyno on their ceptors. |
Killian Cormac
Cormac Distribution
5
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Posted - 2015.03.09 21:41:29 -
[870] - Quote
Ranafal wrote:OMFG, 40 pages and still no solution for trollceptor?
Incorrect. |
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