Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 76 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1064
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 13:54:17 -
[61] - Quote
interdiction nullified interceptors aside though i am looking forward to these changes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
|
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
867
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 13:54:42 -
[62] - Quote
Quesa wrote:afkalt wrote:Quesa wrote:Dave Stark wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Trollceptors fundamentally don't fit the "effective control of the grid" argument. The things that can hit an orbiting snaked-out interceptor are few and far between and require very specific fits to counter, allowing a trollceptor to easily keep a link alive without effective control of the grid. This also forces specific metas, in opposition to the view that they should not affect the meta - you have to be able to blap interceptors in your fleet composition.
They also simply allow you to evade committing anything to a fight, and if you're attacking sov at the very least you should be risking a single ship. fortunately you don't have to hit a trollceptor to stop it, just activate your own link. Yet again, this doesn't fit the effective military control of the grid. Neither does not being able to kill an interceptor. Chasing an intercepter off the grid is an example of military control.
That was actually a typo. I meant to say "defending ship" |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
312
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 13:57:18 -
[63] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:Carniflex wrote:Trollceptor will not be an issue. All it takes to kill one is some pre-made bookmarks around his sov structure by the defender and a 15 mil destroyer.
It will be only a "issue" if there is no one present in local but in that case it is already irrelevant what kind of ship is used for attack as the defender is not present anyway to contest it. Because of all the premade bookmarks people will have around a randomly generated command node amirite
I was thinking of static sov structures. As so far the lamentation about trollceptor has been mostly focused on how these will be "creating timers" all over the place.
If at the time of the actual sov fight with 2 days to prepare the defender is not able to kill one ceptor that cant warp then the defender is not worthy of holding sov in my opinion.
Harassing unmanned nodes, however, should be valid tactics and it does not matter all that much what particular mobile enough platform is used.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK!
GOT the bastard.
|
rsantos
Mosquito Squadron Mordus Angels
30
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 13:57:27 -
[64] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:As much as possible, the Entosis Link capture progress should reflect which group has effective military control of the grid. This will not happen if frigates are allowed to use it. Quote:The optimal strategy for fighting over a location with the Entosis Link should be to gain effective control of the grid.
Then make it disable prop mods as well, so people can't ***** out and kite their way through a sov capture. If their intent to attack the sov in a given system is genuine and not just trolling, then they'll have no problem fighting for control of the grid, instead of kiting until the other guy dies of boredom. One or both of those things should be implemented, if you are actually serious about making it matter who has control of the grid. Otherwise it will be a trolling contest.
You see... if the problem is that if an interceptor is enough to make you quit and give up your sov maybe you shouldn't own it. Keep spinning!
Yes with this new sov mechanic the major blocks will have a hard time keeping all their sovs holding... but thats exactly the point of the change.
Go to Cloud Ring... theres "no one" living there, its a dead region! The point of this change is also to make you give up space that you can't "effectively" control and not to just put an end to structure grids.
|
Dave Stark
7410
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 13:57:29 -
[65] - Quote
Quesa wrote:Dave Stark wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Trollceptors fundamentally don't fit the "effective control of the grid" argument. The things that can hit an orbiting snaked-out interceptor are few and far between and require very specific fits to counter, allowing a trollceptor to easily keep a link alive without effective control of the grid. This also forces specific metas, in opposition to the view that they should not affect the meta - you have to be able to blap interceptors in your fleet composition.
They also simply allow you to evade committing anything to a fight, and if you're attacking sov at the very least you should be risking a single ship. fortunately you don't have to hit a trollceptor to stop it, just activate your own link. Yet again, this doesn't fit the effective military control of the grid.
nor do 2 ships sitting on grid pretty much afk linking the node. *shrug* |
davet517
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
57
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 13:57:45 -
[66] - Quote
LT Alter wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote: Put it this way. If sending 500 suicide alts to Entosis something is a viable strategy, we will do it.
While I understand your point of 'anything to win', even with current mechanics you'll never be able to send suicide fleets with the entotis link to win. All the enemy has to do is contest with 1 entosis link and suddenly your 500 are not doing anything. .
He didn't say he'd send them all at once. What he's talking about is spamming cheap ships with links on them for as long as it takes. Which brings up a good point. Entosis links don't have to be expensive, but could they be uncommon? Say made from single run BPCs found by exploring? Would deter the "spamming" behavior described above that would be possible if you could crank out unlimited stockpiles of them. |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1065
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 13:57:56 -
[67] - Quote
if the grid is contested inteceptors are actually useless guys, their lockrange is so pathetic that one or two damps means there is no way they can keep their entosis link active
i think the main issue around interceptors is their ability to move 100% safely behind camps and entosis uncontested systems which should be protected by camped choke points
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
|
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force The Kadeshi
157
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 13:58:07 -
[68] - Quote
First off, thanks for posting this. It's good that you're prepared to listen rather than railroad through changes.
CCP Fozzie wrote: The Entosis Link itself should have the minimum possible effect on what ships and tactics players can choose.
Entosis Links will always have some effect on the types of ships and tactics people find viable for Sov warfare, but we should strive to keep those effects to a minimum. As much as possible, we should work towards a meta where whatever fleet concept would win the fight and control the grid would also be viable for using the Entosis Links. This also means that we don't want to be using the Entosis Links to intentionally manipulate ship use. We've seen some people suggesting that we restrict Entosis Links to battleships, command ships or capital ships in order to buff those classes. Using the Entosis Link mechanics to artificially skew the meta in that way is not something we are interested in doing. This goal is why we intend to use the lightest touch possible when working towards the first two goals. It would be easy to overreact to potentially unwanted uses of the Entosis Link by placing extremely harsh restrictions on the module, but we believe that by looking at the situation in a calm and measured manner we can find a good balance.
It's not just evasion tactics, it's how you respond to a potential threats. Here's the biggest problem with the current system, mate. You only need one ship. It doesn't matter what size that ship is, it's one ship. Post-change, one ship is now to be considered an immediate potential threat. During the vulnerability window you're asking people to sit there and camp structures every time one unaffiliated player (neut/red) enters the system on the off chance they're after disrupting your sov. That's soon going to suck the fun out of Eve for people.
There needs to be an immediate identifier of threat to sov for the average player. A way of judging if a random in local is there to cause mischief, just passing through or an existential threat to your space-empire. Under the current mechanics, a single ship isn't perceived as much of a threat. A small fleet is going to provoke a response usually. It should be no different under the new system. So would it be possible to set the time needed to hack the structure much higher than two minutes but allow multiple links from the same team reduce that timer? You can still bring Interceptors if you like but you'll be best using a fleet of them which is going to provoke a response which leads to more content, more losses, more industry, more sales, more fun. Allowing a single ship to take 'reinforce' everything will lead to stagnation.
Eve needs to be about risk vs reward. The bigger the reward the bigger the risks involved. The proposed changes are the exact opposite of that. Minimal risks for the richest of rewards. How is that a healthy system for the game? Having multiple ships speed up the process solves the other main complaint from people - the vulnerability window. At least with multiple ships there's a chance of a fight for them. Again, I come back to the point that Eve is a game therefore should be fun to play. If these multiple ships can take your sov there will be a whole lot less blueballing going around. People will have to respond to the threat but the threat is at least balanced between attacker and defender.
|
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
1488
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 13:58:52 -
[69] - Quote
I'd like to see the link require some kind of group-work to support it, remote energy feeds, or a remote Entosis support link similar to a remote sensor booster.
Give a ship using the booster some kind of defence buff while it's in play so a defending force has the option of picking off the support links, or trying to hit the Entosis ship itself.
|
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2034
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:00:23 -
[70] - Quote
Capqu wrote:remove interceptor bubble immunity Dont, as the newbies from high-sec use them to explore null-sec. The size of the ships isnt the problem. It's the speed. So keep your focus on speedmods.
TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
|
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12061
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:01:11 -
[71] - Quote
rsantos wrote: You see... if the problem is that if an interceptor is enough to make you quit and give up your sov maybe you shouldn't own it.
And more strawman arguments.
Isn't the whole point of this change to go against the "weaponized boredom" paradigm? Or is totally okay with you to have a four hour tax on your gameplay for something arbitrary? Please, let me know what you do in the game, we can just have you do something different, on the same grid, for four hours per day.
I'm sure you'll be okay with that, since you're okay with putting it on somebody else.
Quote: Yes with this new sov mechanic the major blocks will have a hard time keeping all their sovs holding... but thats exactly the point of the change.
That's so much not the point, for what I said or for this rebalance, that I find it hard to believe you're sincere.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Bj Glitternaut
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:01:44 -
[72] - Quote
I personally would like to see Entosis Links limited to cruisers and above. Interceptors, while not hard to counter on grid, are extremely popular as conflict avoidance ships. If the goal is to generate content and fights, allowing roaming groups of interceptors to equip Entosis links, will only encourage more coward interceptor fleets. |
Torneach Iustus
Emrys Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:02:30 -
[73] - Quote
Perhaps applying an Afterburner/MWD effectiveness penalty to the ship (similar to the HIC bubble) using the Entosis Link will be helpful? At the very least it would eliminate the threat of Trollceptors (if it's a true problem).
Raids on station services wouldn't be laughably easy and would require a little staying power - and to get away you'd need to hit an isolated station. |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1065
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:03:45 -
[74] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Capqu wrote:remove interceptor bubble immunity Dont, as the newbies from high-sec use them to explore null-sec. The size of the ships isnt the problem. It's the speed. So keep your focus speedmods.
thats the problem, newbies shouldn't be able to roam null with impunity in a 25m isk ship
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
|
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1399
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:03:51 -
[75] - Quote
Capqu wrote:if the grid is contested inteceptors are actually useless guys, their lockrange is so pathetic that one or two damps means there is no way they can keep their entosis link active
i think the main issue around interceptors is their ability to move 100% safely behind camps and entosis uncontested systems which should be protected by camped choke points This is the core of the issue. As a sov haver of any size, I should be able to use the geography of my holdings in its defense. Being able to deny entry to my holdings should pay dividends in the security of my empire. Interceptors ignore all geography because, while traveling, they cannot be caught.
Interceptors also have superlative disengagement ability, which converts the entire process of defending sov from defeating a gang of rabble-rousers to keepign a large group of counter-interceptors in a central location during your primetime, then dispatching them as blips pop up on the Sov Radar of choice. No actual PvP occurs in this scenario, it's just two interceptors weakly applying the sov laser to the same target in an attempt to bore each other into submission.
Alternatively, I guess you could park a single supercap on every possible defensive target during your primetime. Thanks to fatigue, this is more viable than you'd think.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
634
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:04:03 -
[76] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Capqu wrote:remove interceptor bubble immunity Dont, as the newbies from high-sec use them to explore null-sec. The size of the ships isnt the problem. It's the speed. So keep your focus speedmods.
When I was a newbie, I actually had to learn to deal with bubbles!
Now the general population is pretty bubble ignorant.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
|
Arkon Olacar
Bearded BattleBears Brave Collective
496
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:05:43 -
[77] - Quote
There's another issue people tend to forget when churning out "if you want to keep your sov you should be able to kill an interceptor" posts. When fighting for an ihub timer, large numbers of the defending alliance will be concentrated into a single constellation, to win the timer. If they don't show up, they risk losing ihubs and sov, and so the defender has to commit as many as possible to that timer.
Meanwhile there is nothing to stop a 3rd party from gathering a few dozen interceptors/frigates and RFing the rest of the region nearly unopposed. Sure there might be a few guys left who can form up to chase off roaming gangs, but can this small section of the online playerbase of the defenders be in several dozen places at once? Of course not. The next 'primetime' window would see dozens and dozens of timers in a 4 hour window, meaning the defenders would need to capture literally hundreds of command nodes, each taking at least 10 minutes.
At the minute there is only one thing stopping a 3rd party from RFing most of a region while the defending alliance is tied up at another timer - HP based warfare requires them to commit assets to do so. This element of risk from the aggressor must remain. There should be nothing to stop a 3rd party splitting up and trying to RF half the region at once, but if the defender turns up then that should result in explosions. If the aggressor can simply run away and the defender is left chasing shadows, unable to keep up with the sheer number of structures under attack simultaneously, then the defender would simply stop bothering. Living in nullsec would simply not be worth the effort.
This is me talking from the Brave perspective - if we would struggle to both contest a single major timer and keep Catch (one of the most densely populated nullsec regions in the game) free from a large number of small gangs, then how on earth are 'normal' alliances supposted to have a chance?
Warping to zero
|
BadAssMcKill
ElitistOps
976
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:06:34 -
[78] - Quote
Just nerf interceptor agility slightly, that way you can just instathrasher key constellations |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2034
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:06:49 -
[79] - Quote
Capqu wrote:Tora Bushido wrote:Capqu wrote:remove interceptor bubble immunity Dont, as the newbies from high-sec use them to explore null-sec. The size of the ships isnt the problem. It's the speed. So keep your focus speedmods. thats the problem, newbies shouldn't be able to roam null with impunity in a 25m isk ship Yes, they should or null-sec will become even more boring without fresh blood. I hope high-sec carebears don't make you worry to much to care
TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
|
Mikka Raikkonen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:08:05 -
[80] - Quote
LT Alter wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote: Put it this way. If sending 500 suicide alts to Entosis something is a viable strategy, we will do it.
While I understand your point of 'anything to win', even with current mechanics you'll never be able to send suicide fleets with the entotis link to win. All the enemy has to do is contest with 1 entosis link and suddenly your 500 are not doing anything.
I really rather doubt we'd commit 500 interceptors to one ihub.
No, we'll commit 10 interceptors to 50 hubs.
You might kill a few of us if you can catch them, but far more likely you'll spend your time chasing your tail, and we'll come back. Again. and again. And again until you go mad and stop showing up. Hell we probably wouldn't even bother to contest the subsequent command node fights. Nope, just make you recapture them constantly.
If you think that that sounds boring as hell for you as a defender and even more so for us as an attacker to the point where we wouldn't do that, consider the following:
we ground out entire regions of space using siege bombers.
edit:
Also, every time we pop an Ihub, that's up to billion ISK investment that you just lost because of an Entosis module. That has to be replaced using a freighter. In Nullsec.
Enjoy. |
|
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
837
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:08:13 -
[81] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:Jaro Essa wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:Trollceptors fundamentally don't fit the "effective control of the grid" argument. The things that can hit an orbiting snaked-out interceptor are few and far between and require very specific fits to counter, allowing a trollceptor to easily keep a link alive without effective control of the grid. You won't have to kill the interceptor. With your own entosis link active on the structure or command node, no progress can be made towards the timer. Though, if you can't kill one interceptor, why should you have sov?. Sure, but no progress in either direction would be made while both links were active. You just reach a stalemate, where your fleet is rendered useless by a single interceptor, burning at 7-8km/s at 100-150km. That's just dumb mechanics.
Its also worth pointing out that, for a defender "halting" capture is not good enough, since a structure that is partially captured remains vulnerable outside the vulnerable timezone. Since anyone needs to get one cycle complete before they commence capture, a defender will always be arriving on grid once the attacker is in to their capture cycle. The defender then doesn't halt the attacker immediately, he has to go through his "preperation" cycle first. Hence, any "stalemate" has to be resolved by the defender, since the structure will potentially remain vulnerable forever if he doesn't (or can't).
|
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1400
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:08:28 -
[82] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Just nerf interceptor agility slightly, that way you can just instathrasher key constellations I've always been partial to the nuclear option here -- all ships, except shuttles and pods, are hard-locked to a minimum of 3s align time.
If Eve's server resources, code base, etc. improve to the point where a 500ms simulation rate is possible, then revert the change.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
Suitonia
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
465
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:09:03 -
[83] - Quote
What about putting a Signature Radius penalty on the Entosis link module, like +100% sig while active? (This might punish gangs who rely on Damage Mitigation rather than actual Effective Hitpoints for tank though). Another possible restriction is to put a speed cap on the Entosis link (kinda like how 500m/s is speed cap for cynosural field), maybe 5km/s? So that the average interceptor isn't punished at all but pure speed/troll fits will be at a speed which is catchable for t1 Attack Frigates and Interceptors.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
|
rsantos
Mosquito Squadron Mordus Angels
30
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:09:06 -
[84] - Quote
Capqu wrote:if the grid is contested inteceptors are actually useless guys, their lockrange is so pathetic that one or two damps means there is no way they can keep their entosis link active
i think the main issue around interceptors is their ability to move 100% safely behind camps and entosis uncontested systems which should be protected by camped choke points
Add a few linked rapiers or huggins, but by all means if the interdiction nullified interceptor is the issue than remove it! We will see who camps who and that jump fatigue! |
Kinis Deren
StarHunt Mordus Angels
451
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:09:20 -
[85] - Quote
Good job CCP Fozzie!
If the only thing on the grid is the interceptor then it has complete control of said grid. It stands to reason then that a single interceptor pilot in an interceptor can initiate the vulnerability of a system using the Entosis link.
In my humble opinion, those screaming about trollceptors appear to be the ones least likely to be using the space that might be contested. In this respect, their motivaton is abundantly clear - they don't want to lose their control of vast swathes of currently empty space nor be forced to actively defend it. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12063
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:09:36 -
[86] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Capqu wrote:Tora Bushido wrote:Capqu wrote:remove interceptor bubble immunity Dont, as the newbies from high-sec use them to explore null-sec. The size of the ships isnt the problem. It's the speed. So keep your focus speedmods. thats the problem, newbies shouldn't be able to roam null with impunity in a 25m isk ship Yes, they should or null-sec will become even more boring without fresh blood. I hope high-sec carebears don't make you worry to much to care
This is a massive derailment, but for a while now I have believed that bubble immunity should not be a native hull ability.
It should instead be the ability to fit an interdiction nullifier module. Like a warp stab, but not.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
310
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:10:10 -
[87] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Andrea Keuvo wrote:You have two huge issues you need to address for sure before this stuff goes live:
1. If some linked nano 7km/s ship can operate this module people will abuse it.
2. If blobbing with 200 jamming frigs can prevent a non-blob entity from activating their Entosis links the blobbing entities will abuse it.
After you figure these things out can you think about how you will rebalance anomalies in nullsec to make it actually worth living there and to make systems below -.5 truesec actually able to support enough pilots for an occupancy based sov system to be viable?
If one side brings 200 ships to fight a smaller number of opposing ships he should have some advantage. There is ways around 200 jamming/damping ships. Snipers, for example as ECM range is limited.
I'm not opposed to a larger force having some advantage. What I'm opposed to is infecting sov war with the space AIDS that is an ECM frig blob. The only thing worse than grinding millions of structure HP is spending an entire fight permajammed. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
868
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:11:43 -
[88] - Quote
Add occupancy bonuses in reverse to defenders recapturing - so a fully upgraded object can be recapped by defenders in <2.5 minutes.
Make undoing trivial, half attacks a 2 minute job. |
Jessy Andersteen
AdAstra. Beach Club
6
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:11:51 -
[89] - Quote
About the trollceptor. It's stupid. Ok, u can't kill the "trollceptor" but...
Remember: targeting range of the interceptor. Put a single Maulus, hyena,keres, rapier, huggin, razzu or a griffin on the field...
Bye bye trollceptor.
Trollceptor is a troll. Don't feed the troll. |
Ann Markson
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
9
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 14:12:40 -
[90] - Quote
While the Trolleceptor thing itself is a useless rage it adresses another issue. Currently the majority of Sov Null systems is worth ****. Alliances hold entire regions to have access to 10% of their systems in which people actually can rat at isk/h rates significantly above highsec levels.
People are mad because noone wants to life or be in the -0.1 or -0.2 systems because it adds a lot of effort while not giving access to anything worth much more in terms of income abilitiy. So People hold large chunks of sov to use a very few parts of it now rage because the parts they dont use would be reinforced constantly, but are effectively not worth using at all, thus have no place in occupancy based Sov.
If CCP wants occupancy based Sov to work the truesecs either need a rework, or the anomaly system does in a way that makes the majority of Sov systems worth holding, not the minority of them.
One could argue that it doesnt has any place here, but with Sov being a very complex topic we need to adress each part of it simultaneously.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 76 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |