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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
714
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:51:33 -
[1711] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Lets focus on your earlier post where you ask for people to suggest ways to kill an interceptor
despite what you probably assumed this is one of those cases dropping supercaps on it doesn't work |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6618
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:52:06 -
[1712] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Lets focus on your earlier post where you ask for people to suggest ways to kill an interceptor
despite what you probably assumed this is one of those cases dropping supercaps on it doesn't work Smartbombing
though pl did lose titan smartbombing on a gate in lowsec
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3149
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:56:39 -
[1713] - Quote
Kristian Hackett wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:We do not intend to allow pure evasion tactics to become optimal. Then make it disable prop mods on a ship activating it. Evasion tactics will be optimal so long as they are possible. The solution is to make them impossible. I have to agree here. You can disrupt a pure evasion fit, but you can't remove it from grid. Disable the prop mods - if the attacker wants to stick around they better be ready to fight (or soak a stupid amount of damage).
Yeah, this entire 68 page and counting argument can be resolved with a single sentence from Fozzie saying that activation of the Entosis Link carries some kind of significant mobility penalty, whether that be disabling of prop mods, a flat self-webbing effect, or whatever. And if Entosis-fitted interceptors are as easy to catch as the detractors claim it will make no difference to impose such a penalty.
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
367
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:59:07 -
[1714] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Kristian Hackett wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:We do not intend to allow pure evasion tactics to become optimal. Then make it disable prop mods on a ship activating it. Evasion tactics will be optimal so long as they are possible. The solution is to make them impossible. I have to agree here. You can disrupt a pure evasion fit, but you can't remove it from grid. Disable the prop mods - if the attacker wants to stick around they better be ready to fight (or soak a stupid amount of damage). Yeah, this entire 68 page and counting argument becomes mute with a single sentence from Fozzie saying that activation of the Entosis Link carries some kind of significant mobility penalty, whether that be disabling of prop mods, a flat self-webbing effect, or whatever. Afaik I think someone just showed there's not necessarily a reason for that anymore
/checks the previous page
Yep, I think we're clear of the trollceptor thing now, think it's done with.
Rest In Pieces.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
681
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:59:08 -
[1715] - Quote
alternatively just hard lock all ships to minimum 3s align except pod and shuttle
look at how easy it is to fix eve |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
681
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 23:00:02 -
[1716] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Kristian Hackett wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:We do not intend to allow pure evasion tactics to become optimal. Then make it disable prop mods on a ship activating it. Evasion tactics will be optimal so long as they are possible. The solution is to make them impossible. I have to agree here. You can disrupt a pure evasion fit, but you can't remove it from grid. Disable the prop mods - if the attacker wants to stick around they better be ready to fight (or soak a stupid amount of damage). Yeah, this entire 68 page and counting argument becomes mute with a single sentence from Fozzie saying that activation of the Entosis Link carries some kind of significant mobility penalty, whether that be disabling of prop mods, a flat self-webbing effect, or whatever. Afaik I think someone just showed there's not necessarily a reason for that anymore /checks the previous page Yep, I think we're clear of the trollceptor thing now, think it's done with. Rest In Pieces. nah, interceptors are still a problem
but thanks for posting |
Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
774
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:03:15 -
[1717] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but oversized propmods kinda kill your agility don't they? All an inty has to do is turn left or right and the T3 will be severely penalized. T3 dessie has an agility buff whilst in prop mode. Ceptor has to change direction enough to make it out of OH scram range from something chasing it at double the speed. *maybe* with superb manual pilotting he might manage it, whilst the chasing dessie only has to press approach - a well timed sling shot *might* work but could be countered by the dessie pilots skill as well. Sounds like a fun or not so fun minute or two for the ceptor pilot at least.
Even with it's agility buff it's a pain in the ass to turn with an oversized, overheated prop mod. The interceptor has a massive advantage in it's agility, and it's immunity to bubbles. An inty can dart onto the field, examine the situation, and GTFO if need be. T3 dessies may move twice as fast, but they still have to finish dropping out of warp, align, and spool up their prop mod in order to catch the interceptor which may be well on it's way to leaving the grid (via warping or physical grid boundaries) if he pays attention to D-scan. |
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
367
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:03:23 -
[1718] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:nah, interceptors are still a problem
but thanks for posting Outside of Entosis links, perhaps, take it to Ships and Modules if you want to discuss them in the broader game.
Thanks for posting x198
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2656
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:04:44 -
[1719] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:alternatively just hard lock all ships to minimum 3s align except pod and shuttle
look at how easy it is to fix eve Case in point - what does align time matter when an Interceptor is using an Entosis link and can't warp off? Oh noes, the inty aligned on me! All is lost!~~
This entire thread is an exercise in narrative control. Some individuals and/or groups don't like interceptors and will use any excuse to try and get them nerfed. |
Yroc Jannseen
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
72
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:10:28 -
[1720] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:alternatively just hard lock all ships to minimum 3s align except pod and shuttle
look at how easy it is to fix eve Case in point - what does align time matter when an Interceptor is using an Entosis link and can't warp off? Oh noes, the inty aligned on me! All is lost!~~ This entire thread is an exercise in narrative control. Some individuals and/or groups don't like interceptors and will use any excuse to try and get them nerfed.
If this thread was about narrative control there'd be more than half a dozen people from the CFC involved. |
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2736
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:15:06 -
[1721] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Lets focus on your earlier post where you ask for people to suggest ways to kill an interceptor
despite what you probably assumed this is one of those cases dropping supercaps on it doesn't work
I think you'll find that to be a tragic mistake if you really believe that.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Miner Hottie
Valar Morghulis. Goonswarm Federation
78
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:15:08 -
[1722] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:baltec1 wrote:Everything you said is rubbish. Your ignorance and nullbear blinders are showing. baltec1 wrote:I want small gangs not an endless swarm of cepters that you will not catch with any sniper that a defender would be forced to waste 4 hours of their playtime chasing around. Its not fun, it wont generate fights and it will make sov even worse than it is today. The defender has no advantage at all in this situation and after a few months of this you will see a mass burnout. Its a ****** tactic that cannot be allowed to happen. If you can't handle solo Interceptors with no tank who can't disengage at will, you're completely blind to the advantages you have as a defender. Try talking to folks who actually have to deal with similar mechanics today - i.e. FW pilots - and you'll get a bazillion ideas on how to leverage the defensive advantages you have. I really really hope that CCP continues to allow Entosis Links on Interceptors. It will result in the biggest buckets of nullbear tears since Pheobe. Querns wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:There's a balance to be found between the two extremes. I think we'd be losing something significant if border control was strong enough to allow people to ignore their interiors. Having some ships move through gatecamps more easily and others less easily is a pretty helpful tool in getting that balance. Definitely GÇö I understand the concerns. I just wanted to keep it fresh in everyone's minds, since it's pretty obvious where I was going with that line of thought. Some serious deliberation on the current state of interdiction nullification is called for, I think; especially in the face of things like covert ops cloaking ships, Black Ops Battleship bridging, titan bridging (as useful as these are with a 5LY range, at any rate,) and wormholes already allowing attackers to circumvent static gate camps. Part of the reason it's so important for Interceptors - and other fast aligning interdiction nullified ships - is that mobility within "defended space" is just as important as being able to penetrate the borders in the first place. The reason that we've had 250ish pages plus multiple TMC articles worth of Gewn propoganda railing against Trollceptors is because literally EVERY OTHER SHIP PLATFORM can be interdicted with bubblecamps. This includes both the static wall o' bubbles already common in nullsec, as well as the impromptu camps that get thrown up using 'Dictors and HICs. The fact that a defender can easily "bottle up" a group of BLOPS boats or SBs or folks coming in through a wormhole is precisely the reason that Interceptors need to continue to have the ability to fit Entosis Links without additional penalty over other hulls.
He said swarms of interceptors you semi literate simpleton. Fleets of them. 1 dude being a troll in a trollceptor can be dealt with. 255 of them coming from all directions and running every which way are much much harder. But keep beating your FW drum and leave null secto the people who are harassed every day by risk averse pussies like Poitot Dot and his gang of Maledictions every day.
It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
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Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
367
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:18:33 -
[1723] - Quote
Yroc Jannseen wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:alternatively just hard lock all ships to minimum 3s align except pod and shuttle
look at how easy it is to fix eve Case in point - what does align time matter when an Interceptor is using an Entosis link and can't warp off? Oh noes, the inty aligned on me! All is lost!~~ This entire thread is an exercise in narrative control. Some individuals and/or groups don't like interceptors and will use any excuse to try and get them nerfed. If this thread was about narrative control there'd be more than half a dozen people from the CFC involved. How about half a dozen in just the top 20 and 30% of posts purely from Goonswarm Fed without counting the rest of the coalition?
I mean fair play a lot of those were complete dross but it's not like you're under-represented here.
edit: I guess if anything the highsec salvagers are over-represented with their pleas to allow the module to be fitted on their Noctis
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6619
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 23:21:57 -
[1724] - Quote
Yroc Jannseen wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:alternatively just hard lock all ships to minimum 3s align except pod and shuttle
look at how easy it is to fix eve Case in point - what does align time matter when an Interceptor is using an Entosis link and can't warp off? Oh noes, the inty aligned on me! All is lost!~~ This entire thread is an exercise in narrative control. Some individuals and/or groups don't like interceptors and will use any excuse to try and get them nerfed. If this thread was about narrative control there'd be more than half a dozen people from the CFC involved. It's like sov trolling, we just need to keep posting and moving to the next post until all the defenders give up on their sov
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
367
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 23:23:16 -
[1725] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Yroc Jannseen wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:alternatively just hard lock all ships to minimum 3s align except pod and shuttle
look at how easy it is to fix eve Case in point - what does align time matter when an Interceptor is using an Entosis link and can't warp off? Oh noes, the inty aligned on me! All is lost!~~ This entire thread is an exercise in narrative control. Some individuals and/or groups don't like interceptors and will use any excuse to try and get them nerfed. If this thread was about narrative control there'd be more than half a dozen people from the CFC involved. It's like sov trolling, we just need to keep posting and moving to the next post until all the defenders give up on their sov I had noticed that similarity tbh but was too polite to point it out.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
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Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
811
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:32:20 -
[1726] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Yeah, this entire 68 page and counting argument can be resolved with a single sentence from Fozzie saying that activation of the Entosis Link carries some kind of significant mobility penalty, whether that be disabling of prop mods, a flat self-webbing effect, or whatever. And if Entosis-fitted interceptors are as easy to catch as the detractors claim it will make no difference to impose such a penalty. No. Kiting doctrines should remain viable, if the design principle is to not influence fleet design for ships flying with Entosis Links.
That means no speed maulus, no inertia maulus, no "Entosis Shock" mechanics, etc etc etc. Learn to counter small fast stuff, don't force CCP to hold your hands.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
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Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
811
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:33:43 -
[1727] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:alternatively just hard lock all ships to minimum 3s align except pod and shuttle
look at how easy it is to fix eve Or, keep it like it is, so that gatecamps don't grant safety and allow you to control disproportionate amounts of space.
Drop systems you don't need and shrink your empire to an appropriate size. See how easy it is to adapt to Fozziesov?
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
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Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
317
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:43:44 -
[1728] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:John McCreedy wrote:With respect Fozzie, that's not what he asked. You skilfully sidestepped the question. Does it or does it not require members to be in the system under attack? Yes or no? What part of "all alliance members" isn't clear? You don't need to be in any specific system to receive the notification in our current plan.
Is that part still under consideration?
Seems a bit counterintuitive to the 'alliance needs to maintain presence' policy. Why not restrict it to the constellation and require the active alliance members there to notify their alliance? |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
134
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:00:47 -
[1729] - Quote
It appears many think SoV changes will brake up the big alliances. It wont.
They have been sitting stagnant stock piling isk.
They can afford to blob much longer than any new corp will be able to.
And there is no reason for the big alliances to fight.
The only think that will fix Null is when too many people get bored and find something else to spend their money on.
It may create more content for smaller corps but if the big corps choose they can make it so no one will be able to hold anything unless they pay them.........no change.
Stagnant null with some small gimicky fights to throw up more "look how many ships have been lost". |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6619
|
Posted - 2015.03.12 00:03:41 -
[1730] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:The only think that will fix Null is when too many people get bored and find something else to spend their money on.
It may create more content for smaller corps but if the big corps choose they can make it so no one will be able to hold anything unless they pay them.........no change.
Stagnant null with some small gimicky fights to throw up more "look how many ships have been lost". So, like sov trolling, they need to bore us out of null?
So, with a method like sov trolling then....
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Yolandar
Estrogen Industrial Enterprises
51
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:15:57 -
[1731] - Quote
Geez, even I am going to train up for ROFLCeptors now Look Ma, I'm SOVqueen, taking Eve all by muhself. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
681
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:27:39 -
[1732] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:alternatively just hard lock all ships to minimum 3s align except pod and shuttle
look at how easy it is to fix eve Or, keep it like it is, so that gatecamps don't grant safety and allow you to control disproportionate amounts of space. Drop systems you don't need and shrink your empire to an appropriate size. See how easy it is to adapt to Fozziesov? gatecamps aren't ironclad defense
have you heard of wormholes, covert ops cloaks, and titan/blops bs bridging
i understand that you once lost a ship once to a gatecamp and this made you angry but don't blame the gatecamp for you being bad |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10170
|
Posted - 2015.03.12 00:33:02 -
[1733] - Quote
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:And I'm not kidding, this discussion was the exact same before dominion, with people (like goons) telling everyone "we will use this to make your game experience suck" and legions of short-sighted utopians on the other side proclaiming "this will be great, those big alliances are gonna get what's coming to them!!". [Citation Needed]Not to be ignored is Dominion sov was shipped unfinished due to CCP focusing heavy development on World of Darkness and Dust 514. I'm serious. I really would like to see some legitimate links to some threads where the masses were chanting this will be the end of goons and goons saying Dominion sov will be terrible before it was released to Singularity and Tranquility. I'm always eager to learn and read up on these things. So please, link me some threads that support your claim.
Happy reading.
http://eve-search.com/thread/1178912-0/page/12
http://eve-search.com/thread/1175850-0
Read through those threadnaughts, then read this one. If it doesn't give you a sense of deja vu you ain't human. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
864
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:37:13 -
[1734] - Quote
Disclaimer: everything below is from a grunt's perspective in Dominion Sov warfare. Others may know more about actual decisions various parties made.
People are missing the reason why null sec has been stagnant. It's not so much that Dominion sovereignty was that terrible for the participants (if you used proper tools, i.e. Dreadnoughts, it was not that bad at all). When we fought in Tenal in 2012, there were lots of good fights, we sacrificed a few dozen Drake fleets and a couple of Titans, we wore the enemy down, then they gave up and we reinforced all the things. It was not bad at all.
The following summer we fought in Fountain and there were good, big fights. There were also horrible fights with large numbers of slow cats on each side. Then we went to Delve and life started to stink... Due to the threat of Supercapital hot drops on our Dreadnoughts, and the need to develop more FC's, we ground Delve in stealth bombers. That sucked. We did the same through the Halloween war, until towards the end when we got B-R and other good fights.
After B-R, the large blocs voluntarily gave up the sov fights. This was a conscious decision and resulted in horrible stagnation. I'll say that again: the large blocs mutually agreed not to wage sov warfare. They did not want to risk Supercapital fleets (the loss of which would lead to the loss of moon and rental empires). The large blocs voluntarily started the stagnation.
Why is this important? Because only large blocs will be able to seriously attack another large bloc using Trollsov. If they choose not to attack each other, because REASONS, then we are left with a Trollsov system that is even worse for small groups (who can be trolled by all and sundry) and Nullsec will still appear stagnant on the sov front. But is Eve actually stagnant right now?
Meanwhile, for all the vitriol directed at space aids, it did allow regional conflicts to be fun again (at least in Fountain). I've used my Dreadnoughts and Titan more in the past five months than I did at any point previously in Eve (and in relatively small fights as true force multipliers). We had great fights in southern Fountain in December and January. Small gang fights through NPC null and WH's have been great. N3 has been great about dropping Supercapitals on our roaming T1 cruiser gangs in Delve. Life is good. From what I have seen, life is good elsewhere too. And now you want to screw that up with this nonsense?
If you want to break up the big blocs, you cannot. N+1 is always better than N. No mechanic, short of deus ex machina killing the "+1," will work. Deus ex machina is the antithesis of sandbox (see e.g. T20). So give it a rest...
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
682
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:39:27 -
[1735] - Quote
i do like that sov defenders aren't allowed to use force multipliers but god forbid attackers lose their ability to use force multipliers |
Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
133
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:48:30 -
[1736] - Quote
Goon tears in 1 line : "Bawwwwww Fozzie how dare you make it so we can be harassed a little bit while rolling the whole eve for free".
Seriously, this system is so severely biased for goons I wonder who actually came up with it.
A crap ton equals 1000 crap loads in metric, and roughly 91 shit loads 12 bull shits and 1 puppy's unforeseen disaster in imperial.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6619
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:53:45 -
[1737] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Why is this important? Because only large blocs will be able to seriously attack another large bloc using Trollsov. If they choose not to attack each other, because REASONS, then we are left with a Trollsov system that is even worse for small groups (who can be trolled by all and sundry) and Nullsec will still appear stagnant on the sov front. Not as long as the smal groups don't have any sov and only want to end the sov of the big groups
eg: massdeath of moa will end us just because apparently moa are the best paid mercs or something
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
685
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Posted - 2015.03.12 01:05:16 -
[1738] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote: Seriously, this system is so severely biased for goons I wonder who actually came up with it.
agreed, for this reason we need to ensure interceptors cannot use entosis links |
SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
108
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:13:50 -
[1739] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:SilentAsTheGrave wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:And I'm not kidding, this discussion was the exact same before dominion, with people (like goons) telling everyone "we will use this to make your game experience suck" and legions of short-sighted utopians on the other side proclaiming "this will be great, those big alliances are gonna get what's coming to them!!". [Citation Needed]Not to be ignored is Dominion sov was shipped unfinished due to CCP focusing heavy development on World of Darkness and Dust 514. I'm serious. I really would like to see some legitimate links to some threads where the masses were chanting this will be the end of goons and goons saying Dominion sov will be terrible before it was released to Singularity and Tranquility. I'm always eager to learn and read up on these things. So please, link me some threads that support your claim. Happy reading. http://eve-search.com/thread/1178912-0/page/12 http://eve-search.com/thread/1175850-0 Read through those threadnaughts, then read this one. If it doesn't give you a sense of deja vu you ain't human. Bonus, a nice article full of optimistic predictions http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/78225 This may have backfired on you.
I'm several pages in and out of all the goon posts, all but one is very optimistic of the Dominion sov. Everyone from mittens to vile rat and some other known goon leaders were very optimistic. Shadoo's post was very cautious.
Thanks for the link regardless. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6619
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Posted - 2015.03.12 02:33:21 -
[1740] - Quote
They're rather optimistic about this too.
But doubtless it's spin, or ?? (And it's mostly random cfc people here, as well)
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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