Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
12382
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 15:53:30 -
[1] - Quote
Hey everyone. Alongside our Fanfest prep, our team here in Iceland has been hard at work collecting initial feedback on the Sovereignty Update Dev Blog we released last week. We want to express a huge thanks to everyone who has provided constructive feedback so far.
One of the feedback areas that we would like to focus on at this early point is Sovereignty time zone mechanics and how we can build the best possible time zone safe system. So we've created a survey to help organize your feedback and let us get some new insights into your needs.
Time zone mechanics are a vital, and challenging, part of building game systems in a single shard worldwide universe like EVE. Time zone safe game systems are those that allow players to determine the rough time period in which events can occur and their assets are in danger. They play two crucial roles in a game like EVE:
- They prevent players from losing their stuff while they are unavoidably away from the game (work, sleep, etc). Nobody should feel the need to play the game 24/7 in order to compete.
- They encourage players to show up at the same place at the same time, facilitating multiplayer gameplay. Playing with and outplaying other human beings is the core of EVE, and putting players in contact with each other is a big part of that. If people can fight over an asset without ever coming into contact with each other, we've lost something very valuable.
There have been a few methods used by EVE's game systems to provide this service:
- Starbase strontium fueling and reinforcement mode was developed to allow players to build and maintain structures in space with reasonable levels of risk. When the starbase is attacked while fueled with Strontium Clathrates it enters a reinforced mode and becomes invulnerable for a period of time determined by the amount of Stront it is loaded with. This system had the downside of some fairly significant complexity, and was less predictable (and therefore higher risk for the structure owner) than the later systems, but led to some interesting gameplay around attacking starbases in unusual time zones and using careful application of damage to "kite" the timer.
- Simpler reinforcement mechanics were introduced for dominion sovereignty and also used for player owned customs offices. In this system players set a target time for the reinforcement exit and the system would automatically choose a time within a random period around that choice when the structure is attacked. This system reduced complexity and was much easier to manage than fuel. These first two systems also allow the initial attack on a structure to happen at any time, but that is only viable in those systems because the initial attacks have a very significant cost in time and hitpoint grinding.
- In our current proposal for Summer 2015 Sov Changes, we attempt to build upon the earlier designs and reduce the amount of player vs structure grinding gameplay. The initial stage of killing and dropping SBUs is removed, and instead alliances choose a prime time that doubles as the reinforcement exit period and the point of initial vulnerability. See the dev blog for more details.
We are very interested to hear from all of you to find out what kind of timezone system best fits your needs and desires. That's why we've put together this survey.
The initial questions in this survey are just to provide context, but the real meat comes at the end with the long form answers. We strongly encourage players to provide as much detail as possible. If you don't think the new proposal meets your needs, is it because of the inability to set each structure individually, or because of the removal of the SBU stage of attack and defense, or the 4 hour window for reinforcement exit being smaller than the current 6 hour one? If you expect less content, are you more worried about losing content on offense or defense? The more detail you can provide, the better we'll be able to address your concerns.
You can find the survey at: timezones.questionpro.com
Please share with your EVE friends and spread the word. The more people get involved, the more we'll be able to do to help improve the system.
Thanks!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
|
|
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
12382
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 15:53:36 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
|
|
Bobmon
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
137
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 13:59:36 -
[3] - Quote
FIRST
GÖ˘GÖ˘Bobmon for CSM10
@BobmonEve
|
Wrik Hoover
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
111
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:05:16 -
[4] - Quote
ok |
Lokitoki81
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
45
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:07:24 -
[5] - Quote
Move russians and aussies to chinese servers.
problem solved |
BugraT WarheaD
158
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:10:14 -
[6] - Quote
Good things to do a survey about it :) I will answer it right naow ! |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
830
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:15:21 -
[7] - Quote
Dev post not showing up in dev post search also not in this week in eve.
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe.
|
Greygal
Redemption Road Affirmative.
388
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:22:54 -
[8] - Quote
Thanks for putting the survey up! Will cross-post my longform answers into this post once completed :)
What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.
Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!
Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3151
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:34:36 -
[9] - Quote
Any system by which players from one timezone are told "you can only affect this territory at 4am, set your alarm clocks or don't bother" is failing those players fundamentally. There should always be SOMETHING to do to attack or defend space, even if the core vulnerability window remains there has to be some form of secondary objectives for out-of-timezone players to play a part.
One idea I've been thinking of putting forward is to include some form of deployable structures along the lines of the ESS which could be used by attackers and defenders to gradually degrade or supplement the defences of a contested system as long as they remained online, and deactivated by use of the Entosis module. That way a group of players outside of the designated window of attack can still affect the outcome of an invasion by their efforts to keep their own deployables running and/or clearing out those of the enemy, whilst also adding some depth to what is currently a fairly simplistic game mechanic.
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
|
Langbaobao
Tr0pa de elite. Pandemic Legion
47
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:37:56 -
[10] - Quote
Eh, answered the survey, but tbh I don't expect it will change much and CCP will push the current proposal or some variation of it. Will enjoy trolling people with reinforce timers tho. |
|
Antze
Discontinuity LLC
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:50:33 -
[11] - Quote
Fozzie,
What about doing something like flipping the times around.
So, the holder could say - we're sleeping/working from like late NA to mid EU. Any other time is good. |
Rammel Kas
BOVRIL bOREers Mining CO-OP Brave Collective
5
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:50:39 -
[12] - Quote
Completed the survey, hope my 2p helps. |
Dave Stark
7448
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:55:57 -
[13] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Any system by which players from one timezone are told "you can only affect this territory at 4am, set your alarm clocks or don't bother" is failing those players fundamentally. There should always be SOMETHING to do to attack or defend space, even if the core vulnerability window remains there has to be some form of secondary objectives for out-of-timezone players to play a part. pretty much the nail on the head there.
outside of the 4 hour window there's NO way to participate in sov warfare (and no, station services aren't participating in sov warfare) |
Schluffi Schluffelsen
State War Academy Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 15:02:06 -
[14] - Quote
Thanks for the survey.
Here would be my tweaks on the system:
- switch from an alliance-wide timer to a constellation based timer - up the 4h window to 6h - tie the prime time to indices - 5/5/5 gives the lowest timer of 6h, less "occupied" systems have a larger window (let's say 12h, for example)
This way you could hit more alliances and unloved space is ripe for taking by different TZ alliances, strongholds have defensive boni and a tighter window. |
Coelomate
Gilliomate Corp
30
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 15:08:58 -
[15] - Quote
Thanks for the survey!
cross-posting thoughts from reddit -
I really like the prime time mechanic - I think it's a shot of necessary pain that will push the nullsec equilibrium in a good direction. CCP cannot bend space time - outside of edge-case timers and the particularly caffeine-addled, players in Australia will never be able to directly fight players in America. If there were no timer mechanic, sov would become impossible to hold except by large global coalitions.
And the primary change is really only to how the initial assault comes - I don't buy the argument that ATUZ derives significant joy from dropping SBUs mostly uncontested while the actual fight timers tick away for EU/US TZ. After the initial reinforcement, the old and new sov systems allow the defender to choose their strongest time relative to the attacker.
The new timer mechanics strongly incentivize grouping with - and attacking - players that are online at the same time you're online. Which will make coalitions less optimal - but not kill them outright. It will make it more realistic for groups to silo off without facing immediate destruction, increasing the ability for the equilibrium to shift towards balkanization and away from mega coalition (especially alongside occupancy bonuses and jump drive nerves). That will be painful to the existing order, but great for the health of the game.
Love,
~Coelomate
|
Anthar Thebess
960
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 15:09:56 -
[16] - Quote
Answered. Simple suggestion. Combine TZ safe mechanic and pos reinforce mechanic.
So reinforced structures BURN Stront. Something that is heavy , and hard to move. You not only need to win reinforce timer, but also BEFORE next TZ window you need to bring back stront in order to get next reinforce timer. This way you win the timer, structure becomes invulnerable till the end of the current window, and you have next 20hours to bring and refill strontium.
For example ( strontium used per reinforce timer/ total capacity of strontium bay): - TCU use 5k / 10k - Ihub 10k / 50k - Station 10k / 250k
(in case of TCU and Ihub, excessive strontium is destroyed when you loose the timer)
This way you add very important aspect in terms of overarching your sov holdings. Without ability to resupply strontium , structures will be capture able without any reinforce timer.
Of course stations will not be captured but just enter freeport mode.
Stront can also be filled only by people owning specific structure. Avoxers/ spy ? Something interesting , but can be easily solved ( if you consider this as an issue) by only giving ability to put more stront without ability to pull it from those structures.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
|
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
878
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 15:10:57 -
[17] - Quote
Let the space owner set the vulnerability windows per constellation, rather than one for the whole alliance.
Let the space owner designate multiple windows, not less than two hours in length, for their vulnerability. Two hours is a realistic amount of time that a person with a life can devote to playing on a consistent basis. A single four hour window is just too much.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
|
Anthar Thebess
960
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 15:12:59 -
[18] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Let the space owner set the vulnerability windows per constellation, rather than one for the whole alliance.
Let the space owner designate multiple windows, not less than two hours in length, for their vulnerability. Two hours is a realistic amount of time that a person with a life can devote to playing on a consistent basis. A single four hour window is just too much. No this will ruin the whole idea.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
|
Harkin Issier
Lithium Financial and Exploration
19
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 15:22:08 -
[19] - Quote
Every group has a 4hr "primetime" TZ that they choose, then for the rest of the 19.5hrs structures have a very small chance of randomly becoming vulnerable. This chance increases with the size of an alliance and/or with the size of the space they hold.
This means an alliance doesn't need to worry about losing all their space overnight, but other alliances can participate in sov warfare on a smaller scale outside of the enemy primetime (would also reduce gaming the TZ system). Non-"Prime" players can participate in defending their sov along with the standard ratting/mining to grind up the indices. Any other alliance can go on a roam with expectations of disrupting the ratting/mining and capturing some sov.
Also, allow groups to voluntarily increase the size of that 4hr window and receive larger reward bonuses. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
548
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 15:23:28 -
[20] - Quote
Nice to see CCP trolling people who want to give thorough detailed answers to the survey by including a 90 minute timeout and reset.
Thanks for that, an hour and a half down the pan.
id recommend people write out their answers to the questions prior to starting the survey.
questions being:
- Please explain what you like the most about the system you rated the highest with as much detail as possible.
- Please explain what specific differences between the Dominion timer system and the new proposal that affect your rating. Please be as specific as possible.
- Are there any examples of time zone safe mechanics in games other than EVE Online that you find particularly helpful? Please explain.
- If applicable, please describe the specific aspects of the new proposal that help it meet your needs more effectively.
- If applicable, please describe the specific aspects of the new proposal that prevent it from meeting your needs more effectively.
|
|
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1705
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 15:30:06 -
[21] - Quote
Are you looking for hard voting #s or just ideas?
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
|
Quesa
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
68
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 15:32:37 -
[22] - Quote
I find it humorous that POS warfare offered the best system when dealing with timezones.
You could risk a reinforcement during your off-peak times for a good timer (closer to your own TZ) while setting timers depending upon which enemy you thought might hit your towers. It offered some protections against those hitting your towers in your off-TZ but still that opportunity to gamble for a win/loss.
It also required the risking of actual assets.
Maybe the trick to SOV is improving the POS system, how you set them up and how they are maintained...there have been so many good ideas posted since Dominion. |
Marseillefrog
Blueprint Mania
7
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 16:03:57 -
[23] - Quote
DUMB |
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
209
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 16:07:12 -
[24] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote: BURN Stront. Something that is heavy , and hard to move. All my words NO. Stront is a painful mechanic as it exists today with POS. The burden on logistics groups to manage structures will be even worse if this mechanic is introduced to sov gameplay.
We need a simplified mechanic that requires less individual structure micro-management, that can be done REMOTELY. Having to fly to every individual structure to set a timer, and babysit it is not good gameplay.
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
|
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
209
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 16:08:19 -
[25] - Quote
Also echoing a few others - write out your answers in a word processor. The survey just ate my answers because I had been typing for more than 90 minutes.
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
|
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
12388
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 16:15:30 -
[26] - Quote
Hey guys. Sorry about the timeouts. We've talked to the questionpro people and it turns out that the survey will timeout if it is left for more than 90 minutes on one page. We're trying to see if we can get that extended, but in the meantime we split the long-form answers into three pages which should hopefully help.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
|
|
Tiberian Deci
Sleeper Slumber Party Test Alliance Please Ignore
127
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 16:22:16 -
[27] - Quote
Coelomate wrote:Thanks for the survey!
cross-posting thoughts from reddit -
I really like the prime time mechanic - I think it's a shot of necessary pain that will push the nullsec equilibrium in a good direction. CCP cannot bend space time - outside of edge-case timers and the particularly caffeine-addled, players in Australia will never be able to directly fight players in America. If there were no timer mechanic, sov would become impossible to hold except by large global coalitions.
And the primary change is really only to how the initial assault comes - I don't buy the argument that ATUZ derives significant joy from dropping SBUs mostly uncontested while the actual fight timers tick away for EU/US TZ. After the initial reinforcement, the old and new sov systems allow the defender to choose their strongest time relative to the attacker.
The new timer mechanics strongly incentivize grouping with - and attacking - players that are online at the same time you're online. Which will make coalitions less optimal - but not kill them outright. It will make it more realistic for groups to silo off without facing immediate destruction, increasing the ability for the equilibrium to shift towards balkanization and away from mega coalition (especially alongside occupancy bonuses and jump drive nerfs). That will be painful to the existing order, but great for the health of the game.
The problem with the primetime mechanic is what happens when it gets abused. Say an alliance like CONDI which has a strong AUTZ sets their primetime to AUTZ, where no one can compete with them. During USTZ all their players can go poke and prod and troll other alliances sov and not have to worry about their own. |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
510
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 16:24:11 -
[28] - Quote
Fozzie, what do you think about scaling vulnerability windows linked to how the space is used? Barely used territory would be very easy to take, actively used systems would be harder. |
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
137
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 16:27:21 -
[29] - Quote
Will there be a version in russian? |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
549
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 16:32:20 -
[30] - Quote
imagine a systems where by each sov structure has a variable count down timer of up to 18 hours where if its reinforced initially it starts that timer, something that can be kited much like todays POS's.
but instead of having just 1 reinforcement it has 2, both of the same length of time. you cannot time both to come out on your prime time, but you can set the timer so if the structure is hit out of your prime time the 1st comes out in your prime time. so if you save it jobs good, however if you fail to save it, the second timer comes out far outside your prime.
Hostiles can kite the timer to near your prime time in order to force the 1st timer out past your prime but the 2nd timer would come out nearer the start of your prime.
You can dress it up how you like in a lore way, but it shouldn't require fuel.
For example: the structure has its own power source and 2 capacitance backups, when its reinforced the 1st capacitance backup burns energy to make it invulnerable for x amount of hours/minutes, whilst the power source charges up the secondary capacitance backups, when its reinforced again the power source goes offline and the structure burns energy in the secondary capacitance backups until it runs out, When it runs out the Sov structure is vulnerable to being hacked and have the ownership changed or self destruct activated. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |