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The Ender Radak
Brothers evolutions
0
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Posted - 2015.03.12 08:46:54 -
[1] - Quote
Hello guys and girls, :)
I am currently using an Ishtar with light drones T2, medium drones T2, Geckos, faction heavy drones and faction sentries. I am doing DED 1 to 5 / 10 in High Sec. All the recommended Ishtar Fits are with 1 or 2 Omnidirectional Tracking Links. I have used one Faction Omnid. Tracking Link with tracking speed script and I did not saw any improvements. In all combat situations I observed that only the Geckos, light and medium drones can track the NPS, all the rest of drones mostly only misses the target. (btw: I use 4x DDA II to maximize the drone damage)
What drone attributes are affected by the Omnidirectional Tracking Link with Tracking Speed Script? (and how? please give examples) What drones should I use?
Another problem, when my drones are agroed, they are destroyed almost instantly. They do not have time to come back so that I can rep them. So every day I loose 1-2 drones, even though I am constantly checking them, micromanaging them, take good care of them.... I did not have any of those problems with my Gila. (I know, 500% to all medium drone EHP -> 1 drones = 1 destroyers EHP).
Thank you in advance, Edi
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Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
33
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Posted - 2015.03.12 09:41:42 -
[2] - Quote
The Ender Radak wrote:
What drone attributes are affected by the Omnidirectional Tracking Link with Tracking Speed Script? (and how? please give examples)
With tracking script the module will increase drone tracking by 30% and reduce range.
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Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
589
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Posted - 2015.03.12 10:59:46 -
[3] - Quote
The module handles tracking. So it increases the tracking on a "drone gun". To a limit tho. If you use heavies on small targets, it wont work very well. Same applies to large guns. I can put 5 tracking comps on my ship, with script, but using a 1200mm howitzer artillery on a frig will always fail. (unless we pilot manually and drop transversal etc)
recommended Ishtar tactic:
1. Drop sentries at 50 -70 KM, use range scripts in the omnies, blast away from small to large (unless DPS is too high, then kill a few high-dps battleships first). 2. If they shoot a sentiry, recall it, wait for aggro switch, then drop the drone again. |
The Ender Radak
Brothers evolutions
0
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Posted - 2015.03.12 11:01:11 -
[4] - Quote
Mr Mac wrote:The Ender Radak wrote:
What drone attributes are affected by the Omnidirectional Tracking Link with Tracking Speed Script? (and how? please give examples)
With tracking script the module will increase drone tracking by 30% and reduce range.
Can you explain how that affects the different sized drones and their capability to hit different sized NPC ships? ex: - heavy drones chance to hit the NPC frigates, NPC destroyers, NPC cruisers - sentries chance to hit the same ships
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The Ender Radak
Brothers evolutions
0
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Posted - 2015.03.12 11:05:54 -
[5] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:The module handles tracking. So it increases the tracking on a "drone gun". To a limit tho. If you use heavies on small targets, it wont work very well. Same applies to large guns. I can put 5 tracking comps on my ship, with script, but using a 1200mm howitzer artillery on a frig will always fail. (unless we pilot manually and drop transversal etc)
recommended Ishtar tactic:
1. Drop sentries at 50 -70 KM, use range scripts in the omnies, blast away from small to large (unless DPS is too high, then kill a few high-dps battleships first). 2. If they shoot a sentiry, recall it, wait for aggro switch, then drop the drone again.
That's more useful, ty. I am not used to any drones bigger than medium drones. Heavy drones and sentries are best used against what kind of NPC ships? Without Omnid. Tracking Links of course, I am not using it any more... |
Trevor Dalech
Adeptus Assassinorum Silent Eviction
97
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Posted - 2015.03.12 11:27:07 -
[6] - Quote
The Ender Radak wrote:Yarda Black wrote:The module handles tracking. So it increases the tracking on a "drone gun". To a limit tho. If you use heavies on small targets, it wont work very well. Same applies to large guns. I can put 5 tracking comps on my ship, with script, but using a 1200mm howitzer artillery on a frig will always fail. (unless we pilot manually and drop transversal etc)
recommended Ishtar tactic:
1. Drop sentries at 50 -70 KM, use range scripts in the omnies, blast away from small to large (unless DPS is too high, then kill a few high-dps battleships first). 2. If they shoot a sentiry, recall it, wait for aggro switch, then drop the drone again. That's more useful, ty. I am not used to any drones bigger than medium drones. Heavy drones and sentries are best used against what kind of NPC ships? Without Omnid. Tracking Links of course, I am not using it any more...
I'd use
light drones against frigs, destroyers and cruisers. medium drones against cruiser BC and BS heavy drones against BS only sentries against everything at range
Using tracking link with a tracking script will allow a heavy drone to hit a cruiser, and a medium drone to hit a firgate, the smaller size drones will still work better in that situation. Only with sentry drone does the omni tracking link really become important. With a tracking script your sentries will be able to hit targets below their optimal range a lot better, while a range script will allow you to hit further out.
My strategy is usually: 1) Drop sentries at range and start out with the range script. 2) Once the rats move closer (within your sentries optimal range if you were not using the omni), switch to the tracking script. 3) Once the rats get within about half your sentries optimal range, you'll notice your sentries start missing even with the tracking bonus. Recall sentries, launch light drones (it's usually the small fast ships which get under your guns first) and burn to range while the light drones kill off anything chasing you. 4) Once at range, repeat from step 1. |
Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
33
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Posted - 2015.03.12 11:35:56 -
[7] - Quote
The Ender Radak wrote:Mr Mac wrote:The Ender Radak wrote:
What drone attributes are affected by the Omnidirectional Tracking Link with Tracking Speed Script? (and how? please give examples)
With tracking script the module will increase drone tracking by 30% and reduce range. Can you explain how that affects the different sized drones and their capability to hit different sized NPC ships? ex: - heavy drones chance to hit the NPC frigates, NPC destroyers, NPC cruisers - sentries chance to hit the same ships
Dunno about ishtar. I'm flying in dominix which has super tracking bonus for drones. My t2 wardens which have worst tracking than other drones can pop a destroyers at 15-20km. Im using two omni links. I can deploy meds to get rid off elite frigates and spider drones without issue |
The Ender Radak
Brothers evolutions
0
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Posted - 2015.03.12 11:36:51 -
[8] - Quote
Trevor Dalech wrote:The Ender Radak wrote:Yarda Black wrote:The module handles tracking. So it increases the tracking on a "drone gun". To a limit tho. If you use heavies on small targets, it wont work very well. Same applies to large guns. I can put 5 tracking comps on my ship, with script, but using a 1200mm howitzer artillery on a frig will always fail. (unless we pilot manually and drop transversal etc)
recommended Ishtar tactic:
1. Drop sentries at 50 -70 KM, use range scripts in the omnies, blast away from small to large (unless DPS is too high, then kill a few high-dps battleships first). 2. If they shoot a sentiry, recall it, wait for aggro switch, then drop the drone again. That's more useful, ty. I am not used to any drones bigger than medium drones. Heavy drones and sentries are best used against what kind of NPC ships? Without Omnid. Tracking Links of course, I am not using it any more... I'd use light drones against frigs, destroyers and cruisers. medium drones against cruiser BC and BS heavy drones against BS only sentries against everything at range Using tracking link with a tracking script will allow a heavy drone to hit a cruiser, and a medium drone to hit a firgate, the smaller size drones will still work better in that situation. Only with sentry drone does the omni tracking link really become important. With a tracking script your sentries will be able to hit targets below their optimal range a lot better, while a range script will allow you to hit further out. My strategy is usually: 1) Drop sentries at range and start out with the range script. 2) Once the rats move closer (within your sentries optimal range if you were not using the omni), switch to the tracking script. 3) Once the rats get within about half your sentries optimal range, you'll notice your sentries start missing even with the tracking bonus. Recall sentries, launch light drones (it's usually the small fast ships which get under your guns first) and burn to range while the light drones kill off anything chasing you. 4) Once at range, repeat from step 1.
That's a good strategy. How can the Geckos hit from frigates to BS everything? Of course, frigates are harder to hit, but they still hit them. So 2 Geckos, 1 medium drone and 2 small ones seem to do the best work.
How will the next release affect the Ishtar, when it will rebalanced?
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Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
33
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Posted - 2015.03.12 11:46:04 -
[9] - Quote
You can try navy drones. They have better tracking than t2 but drone specialization skill wont affect on navies |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
425
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Posted - 2015.03.12 13:04:58 -
[10] - Quote
If you want to understand gunnery and tracking then you need to do a google search and some reading. Eve gunnery and tracking is a long discussion in and of it's self that has been had here repeatedly so I'll not duplicate it. However a short summary would be that guns actually track slower against smaller targets and faster against larger targets.
Like many other's have said the dual omni tracking links are mostly for sentires. There are stacking penalties for multiple tracking mods so when you have the ability to choose range you might want to experiment with one of each script. I personally keep 2 of each script in my cargo and switch them up depending on the situation. I do fly the domi much more than the Ishtar but it's basically the same offensive set up.
As far as what is getting nerfed I think it's just sentry damage. iirc it's going from 10% per level to 7.5% or 5% something like that. I believe there is also some kind of change to range or tracking of the minmatar sentries also but that is to that drone type and not specific to the Ishtar.
Here is the flash based gunnery tutorial: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/eve-tracking101.swf
Eve Uni is a great source for eve info. It is a good place to start for any questions but here is a link to their basic gunnery page: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gunnery_Guide That is just the basic page keep in mind. Eve Uni can go off the deep end on this stuff sometimes so if you dig you can find pages on things like turret damage as well: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage#The_random_damage_distribution So that will give you an idea of how the RNG math works for turrets just as an example.
Also a youtube search should get you some results also like the spiraling and tracking video that I think is done by the guys at agony unleashed. Keep in mind that all of the info that you are getting here is based around ship's turrets but in eve gunnery is gunnery and the math works the same for drone's turrets as it does you ship so the concepts are identical.
Finally here is the dev blog on the balance changes: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/balance-changes-coming-in-scylla
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
980
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Posted - 2015.03.12 13:05:59 -
[11] - Quote
Mr Mac wrote:The Ender Radak wrote:
What drone attributes are affected by the Omnidirectional Tracking Link with Tracking Speed Script? (and how? please give examples)
With tracking script the module will increase drone tracking by 30% and reduce range. Range isn't REDUCED by the tracking speed script. It just isn't increased as the full bonus goes to tracking speed instead.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
33
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Posted - 2015.03.12 13:21:12 -
[12] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Mr Mac wrote:The Ender Radak wrote:
What drone attributes are affected by the Omnidirectional Tracking Link with Tracking Speed Script? (and how? please give examples)
With tracking script the module will increase drone tracking by 30% and reduce range. Range isn't REDUCED by the tracking speed script. It just isn't increased as the full bonus goes to tracking speed instead.
Sorry about my bad english. I was talking about attributes in module |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5965
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Posted - 2015.03.12 13:40:36 -
[13] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Mr Mac wrote:The Ender Radak wrote:
What drone attributes are affected by the Omnidirectional Tracking Link with Tracking Speed Script? (and how? please give examples)
With tracking script the module will increase drone tracking by 30% and reduce range. Range isn't REDUCED by the tracking speed script. It just isn't increased as the full bonus goes to tracking speed instead.
As with all stuff that accept scripts:
No script:
Simple bonus to stat A + Simple bonus to stat B
With script A:
Big bonus to stat A + no bonus to stat B
With script B:
No bonus to stat A + big bonus to stat B.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Orlacc
839
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Posted - 2015.03.12 15:41:24 -
[14] - Quote
Just curious. What is OP's Drone Durability skill?
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1083
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Posted - 2015.03.12 18:52:35 -
[15] - Quote
which drones are you losing?
Bet it's mediums |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
426
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Posted - 2015.03.12 20:28:02 -
[16] - Quote
What I do to try and not loose drones is when I start loosing aggro on the NPCs especially the frigs I pull my drones in and re-establish aggro then redeploy them. Sometimes even whey they are just yellow boxing me my drones will take aggro. If you wait until they take damage you will likely loose one before it gets back. Once a drone has aggro if there are webbing NPCs they will be slowing it and if you recall them then they come in a strait line right to you which drops their transversal to almost nothing.
I've read and noticed to be true that NPCs seem to attack only drones thier size or larger so NPC frigs will go after all drones but NPC cruisers will not go after small drones and NPC BSs will not go after small or medium drones etc. So another tactic can be to kill the frigs first with your small drones if you are close then kill cruisers then switch to medium drones. However my ideal tactic with the domi or ishtar is to sit at range and just kill everything starting with the smallest and moving to the biggest with my sentries at range. |
The Ender Radak
Brothers evolutions
0
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Posted - 2015.03.12 21:21:41 -
[17] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:which drones are you losing?
Bet it's mediums
Yeah, bcs I use them more than the others :) |
The Ender Radak
Brothers evolutions
0
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Posted - 2015.03.12 21:28:55 -
[18] - Quote
And btw. I am getting used to take care of my drones. But it is hard work. I will never use OTL again . I am using the freed mid slot for some more tank.
And I will sell all my heavy drones and replace them with more medium drones and Geckos. Sentries are good to take out the structure or ship that has the loot.
Geckos rule all :D . They can track all NPC ships, from frigates to BS. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1083
|
Posted - 2015.03.12 22:39:19 -
[19] - Quote
Omnis only really benefit sentries because of optimal bonuses. You could try nav computers to make your drones fly to targets faster (and away for that matter) |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4827
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Posted - 2015.03.12 22:42:13 -
[20] - Quote
Use the following:
Light drones against elite frigate NPCs (Shadow Serpentis, etc, with bounties exceeding 25000) and against players in frigates if you do not have them webbed (for players in Assault Frigates sometimes mediums are better) Medium drones against non-elite frigates and elite cruisers, and player cruisers. Also use these on player frigates if you have them webbed. Heavy drones against most other targets. In particular, if you are web fit, always use heavy drones against players if you have a double web on them.
Sentries are best on anything over 15km away unless it is orbiting you.
The benefit to heavies is that they can hit battleship targets hard, and those BSes have a lot of trouble hitting back. This isn't true with sentries.
As for losing drones - they are expendable ammunition, get used to it.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
428
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Posted - 2015.03.12 23:18:24 -
[21] - Quote
I love sentries but I have pretty high drone skills so that might be the difference. But I sit at range and let the NPCs come to me. With one scripted link I think I get about 81 km optimal with Curator IIs and I can one shot frigs with the sentries out that far.
That is one of the problems with turrets is that things out further track slower so the more range that you have the less tracking that you need and the more tracking that you have the less range that you need. So an increase in one is effectively an increase to the other so when you increase them both it's like exponential increases in your ability to hit with your turrets. Missiles are more of a linear damage increase with skills.
Keep in mind however that while the math works the same for turret regardless if it's your turrets on your ship or your drone's turrets they are 2 different skill sets. I think there is only the drone sharpshooting skill iirc I don't think that there are skills for drone tracking and falloff like there is for your guns. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1083
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Posted - 2015.03.12 23:44:31 -
[22] - Quote
Sentries largely have better tracking than most battleship sized guns though and can be improved by omnis |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
186
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Posted - 2015.03.13 05:12:15 -
[23] - Quote
Some thoughts.
Range that you are using your drones at as well as your durability skill are the most likely causes of continuing loss of medium drones. These are generalizations and you will need to adapt them to your specific needs and experiences but here are some max range limits to think about. Heavy about 8k-10k. Medium about 10k to 12k Lights 15k to 20k. Yes you can send them farther out than this and many people do. With mid level durability skills these ranges are about max that you can recall them from without loss once you see they are taking significant damage. If your drones skills are or were all 5 then increase these by about 5k to 10k each.
If the targets are farther than 20k to 30k you should be using sentry drones anyway as they are the best option.
Which drones is very dependent on each person. With the highest damage multiplier of all drones the hobs and hammers are always good choices, although with the racial skills trained they are all good. Garde are good for closer range use say 20k to about 40k out and then take your pick from the other 3 sentries past that.
That 4th drone damage mod I would look at very carefully in a fitting tool. The stacking penalties on that may mean that you gain more by using that slot for a tank or mod for some other aspect of your ship. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
430
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Posted - 2015.03.13 13:34:51 -
[24] - Quote
Another thing to keep in mind with the ishtar and sentries is the ishtar can get a lot of it's tank from the sentries. If you orbit one of your sentries you will reduce incoming damage a lot and if you have a remote repper in one of your high slots you can even rep your sentries through a fair amount of damage so you can leave them out when they take aggro in some situations. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
369
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Posted - 2015.03.13 16:06:48 -
[25] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:What I do to try and not loose drones is when I start loosing aggro on the NPCs especially the frigs I pull my drones in and re-establish aggro then redeploy them. Sometimes even whey they are just yellow boxing me my drones will take aggro. If you wait until they take damage you will likely loose one before it gets back. Once a drone has aggro if there are webbing NPCs they will be slowing it and if you recall them then they come in a strait line right to you which drops their transversal to almost nothing.
I've read and noticed to be true that NPCs seem to attack only drones thier size or larger so NPC frigs will go after all drones but NPC cruisers will not go after small drones and NPC BSs will not go after small or medium drones etc. So another tactic can be to kill the frigs first with your small drones if you are close then kill cruisers then switch to medium drones. However my ideal tactic with the domi or ishtar is to sit at range and just kill everything starting with the smallest and moving to the biggest with my sentries at range.
I might be wrong, but it is my understanding that you can make your pve ship more attractive to npc rats by using various different types of mods in particular ecm/eccm. That way you acquire aggro and hold it so they never shoot your drones.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
430
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Posted - 2015.03.13 20:09:24 -
[26] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote: I might be wrong, but it is my understanding that you can make your pve ship more attractive to npc rats by using various different types of mods in particular ecm/eccm. That way you acquire aggro and hold it so they never shoot your drones.
This is true. Remote repair and ECM both work as I am sure any Ewar mod would work. Many years ago when sleepers were first introduced we did some extensive testing with this and came up with a priority list of what they seemed to hate most but I'd have to go on my memory to tell you what we came up with and I'd rather not do that.
Being in an ishtar you might want to try vamps as I believe it would be easier for you to free up a high slot. I'm thinking of my Ishtar set up and can't think of a mod that I would be willing to give up out of my mid slots. But if you do at least 1 RR mod and always use it on your sentries as well as a vamp and let one of the frigs get close enough to vamp off of that might work. Of course replacing an omni link with a target painter might not be a terrible idea.
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Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
241
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Posted - 2015.03.15 23:56:45 -
[27] - Quote
Fly a marauder.
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
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DooDoo Gum
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:39:41 -
[28] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:Fly a marauder.
What a dumb comment... perhaps try reading the OP... |
Davey Talvanen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
31
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Posted - 2015.03.18 14:30:44 -
[29] - Quote
Trevor Dalech wrote:The Ender Radak wrote:Yarda Black wrote:The module handles tracking. So it increases the tracking on a "drone gun". To a limit tho. If you use heavies on small targets, it wont work very well. Same applies to large guns. I can put 5 tracking comps on my ship, with script, but using a 1200mm howitzer artillery on a frig will always fail. (unless we pilot manually and drop transversal etc)
recommended Ishtar tactic:
1. Drop sentries at 50 -70 KM, use range scripts in the omnies, blast away from small to large (unless DPS is too high, then kill a few high-dps battleships first). 2. If they shoot a sentiry, recall it, wait for aggro switch, then drop the drone again. That's more useful, ty. I am not used to any drones bigger than medium drones. Heavy drones and sentries are best used against what kind of NPC ships? Without Omnid. Tracking Links of course, I am not using it any more... I'd use light drones against frigs, destroyers and cruisers. medium drones against cruiser BC and BS heavy drones against BS only sentries against everything at range Using tracking link with a tracking script will allow a heavy drone to hit a cruiser, and a medium drone to hit a firgate, the smaller size drones will still work better in that situation. Only with sentry drone does the omni tracking link really become important. With a tracking script your sentries will be able to hit targets below their optimal range a lot better, while a range script will allow you to hit further out. My strategy is usually: 1) Drop sentries at range and start out with the range script. 2) Once the rats move closer (within your sentries optimal range if you were not using the omni), switch to the tracking script. 3) Once the rats get within about half your sentries optimal range, you'll notice your sentries start missing even with the tracking bonus. Recall sentries, launch light drones (it's usually the small fast ships which get under your guns first) and burn to range while the light drones kill off anything chasing you. 4) Once at range, repeat from step 1.
Heavys in a VNI hit frigs (maybe dessies, cant tell) well and deal 2-3x more DPS on cruisers than meds (battle numbers not theory damage)
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