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Paranoid Loyd
4224
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:10:19 -
[31] - Quote
Mag's wrote:PhantomMajor wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:A user-definable filter might be nice. If killright cost is greater than x, do not display killright icon. The kill rights information on the over view is so tiny that many lawyers have experienced extreme jealously over such small print. The whole "criminals in hi sec" needs to be fixed. Minus ten toons should be excluded from hi sec, there are so many ways to get your sec status fixed that moving these people's pods to low sec and banning them from using hi sec gates. Of course this would mean CCP wouldn't get any financial back handers from CODE to keep killing miners with impunity. Just one question. Did you post that with a straight face? If you like that one, check this masterpiece out.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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thatonepersone
Son's of Plunder The Marmite Collective
12
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:17:13 -
[32] - Quote
Lol I recognize some of the people in this thread as the owners of the hauler alts that sit on gates and stations with full insurance and an expensive kill right.
Also, this makes me happy.
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:I forgot somehow that I had a kill right on me once. I sat outside the home station of a pirate corp called Son's of Plunder in my shiny cruiser, then wondered why I couldn't redock when they all undocked and targeted me.
Seems to be working alright. Bounties on the other hand seem pointless unless you catch the player in a big costly ship (loot the ship, get the kill, and some isk, profit).
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BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
541
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:25:50 -
[33] - Quote
1) The point of a killright is to exact retribution on a criminal;
2) Criminals are defined by the rulesof the space in which their activities are illegal; (as illustrated by their irrelevance in null and enforcement only by CONCORD)
3) It is the state, CONCORD, which ultimately grants these rights;
As such
Killrights should belong to CONCORD
With this one of two things could happen:
1) CONCORD grants open and free access to all criminals in it's borders.
2) CONCORD auctions off the rights to take out said criminals with active rights (with measures not to abuse the price, maybe a timer).
In this instance, the isk sink does not need to go to players, the OP is correct that this just keeps polluting every system we have in regards to bounty/killrights.
Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1147
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:34:58 -
[34] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:1) The point of a killright is to exact retribution on a criminal;
2) Criminals are defined by the rulesof the space in which their activities are illegal; (as illustrated by their irrelevance in null and enforcement only by CONCORD)
3) It is the state, CONCORD, which ultimately grants these rights;
As such
Killrights should belong to CONCORD
With this one of two things could happen:
1) CONCORD grants open and free access to all criminals in it's borders.
2) CONCORD auctions off the rights to take out said criminals with active rights (with measures not to abuse the price, maybe a timer).
In this instance, the isk sink does not need to go to players, the OP is correct that this just keeps polluting every system we have in regards to bounty/killrights.
Free Killrights = all killrights are instantly cleared by alts/corpmates/friends Auctioned killrights = scammed killrights
OP (and you) are wrong on the impact of the scam.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
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Spaceman Jack
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
83
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:42:45 -
[35] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:Inflated kill rights are not useless but an optional filter is warranted. We're at the point now where most killrights outside gates and stations are insurance fraud. Clicking these kill rights in order to see a value you have no interest in paying does not add anything to the game besides tedium.
Right, thanks for putting that better and that is what I really meant.
Killrights as an IDEA are great, but the ability to put such a high rate for activation, which only gets abused, really adds nothing to the mechanic and MAKES it LAAAAAAAAME.
I am just not seeing the advatage for allowing a price ANYWAY/. I mean, eather you want someone else to kill that basterd or you don't. If you do, you are not going to legitimately make it prohibitively expensive from someone to help you do it.
I imagine the original idea is that you could auction off a "famous" criminal - But it just isn't working out that way. A majority of anyone worth killing is either in a space where you can do that without cost or never leaves the station. I have yet to see headlines "Hundred race to activate 2 Billion ISK rill-right on Elo Night."
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34823
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:53:09 -
[36] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:1) The point of a killright is to exact retribution on a criminal;
2) Criminals are defined by the rulesof the space in which their activities are illegal; (as illustrated by their irrelevance in null and enforcement only by CONCORD)
3) It is the state, CONCORD, which ultimately grants these rights;
As such
Killrights should belong to CONCORD No, CONCORD does not grant these rights.
They are granted under the Crimewatch mechanics and apply just as much in lowsec, outside CONCORD activity, as they do in highsec. I can activate a killright in lowsec for example and then not be subject to sentry gun response.
So killrights granted to the player is exactly the right place for them.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
541
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Posted - 2015.03.17 03:01:34 -
[37] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:[quote=BoBoZoBo]
Free Killrights = all killrights are instantly cleared by alts/corpmates/friends Auctioned killrights = scammed killrights
OP (and you) are wrong on the impact of the scam.
How exactly, am I wrong? You don't say much and you back it up with even less.
Your equations are happening anyway. Free killrights are being zeroed out or overridden by more expensive ones from their alts/corpmates/friends, and scams are in full swing with empty freighters and indys just hovring around AKF.
I come from the dredgery of null from time to time to hunt criminals and I have observed, as the OP has, that most of the killrights are in absurd amounts, over industrial pilots who have a clearly unusual kill:death ratio; or they are on a gang of pilots, enjoying the victories of skirting the criminal justice system of New Eden, but blocking out the retribution entitled to their victims by having alts and mates place outrageous prices for the rights themselves.
This is not the hypothetical you presented, you can observe this for yourself. It is artificial, and in the words of the OP "LAAAAAAAAME."
I don't do it much, but I can see that it is not even worth doing as a whole beyond the chance encounter... too much unnecessary white noise.
Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
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BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
541
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Posted - 2015.03.17 03:03:35 -
[38] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:BoBoZoBo wrote: Killrights should belong to CONCORD
No, CONCORD does not grant these rights.
OK, so who shows up if you kill a pilot without one?
Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
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Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
42927
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Posted - 2015.03.17 04:07:23 -
[39] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:[quote=BoBoZoBo]
Free Killrights = all killrights are instantly cleared by alts/corpmates/friends Auctioned killrights = scammed killrights
OP (and you) are wrong on the impact of the scam. How exactly, am I wrong? You don't say much and you back it up with even less. Your equations are happening anyway. Free killrights are being zeroed out or overridden by more expensive ones from their alts/corpmates/friends, and scams are in full swing with empty freighters and indys just hovring around AKF. I come from the dredgery of null from time to time to hunt criminals and I have observed, as the OP has, that most of the killrights are in absurd amounts, over industrial pilots who have a clearly unusual kill:death ratio; or they are on a gang of pilots, enjoying the victories of skirting the criminal justice system of New Eden, but blocking out the retribution entitled to their victims by having alts and mates place outrageous prices for the rights themselves. This is not the hypothetical you presented, you can observe this for yourself. It is artificial, and in the words of the OP "LAAAAAAAAME." I don't do it much, but I can see that it is not even worth doing as a whole beyond the chance encounter... too much unnecessary white noise. are you really that stupid, or are you just really that good at acting that way?
when multiple killrights are available on the same target, the CHEAPEST will be available first
there's no such f*cking thing as blocking out a free killright with scam killrights |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
502
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Posted - 2015.03.17 04:57:34 -
[40] - Quote
Spaceman Jack wrote:I am just not seeing the advatage for allowing a price ANYWAY/. I mean, eather you want someone else to kill that basterd or you don't. If you do, you are not going to legitimately make it prohibitively expensive from someone to help you do it. If they did not allow a price to be set kill rights would be pointless. Some victims will set the kill right to free and it results in the criminal activating the kill right on an alt and killing himself in a noobship. A price is essential.
There was a time when killrights were tied to killing a ship and not just shooting one. With that system free kill rights could have worked. Kill rights could have been free to activate but would not disappear until the perpetrator lost as much ISK as he destroyed when gaining the kill right. This is not possible today because kill rights are not tied to ship kills.
There are all our dominion
Bookmarks in overview ~ Fleet improvements
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6454
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Posted - 2015.03.17 06:25:43 -
[41] - Quote
Spaceman Jack wrote:So I decided to try this criminal hunting thing and saw a lot of silly bastards in Jita/Amar with killrights in the half billion ISK range.
Clearly, bait/scam - as most are just sitting in empty industrials or freighters and have nothing but losses.
This is so lame for EVE - EVE should have the kind of balls that would make all killrights free. The only option for them should be: available or not available - but allowing such a high price for them is just asking for a system to fail.
Come on CCP. Let's do something more interesting here. Cap or remove the killrights payout that is clearly going to the corp-mates/alt. I can't imagine this type of baiting is what you had in mind when your top brains came up with a new criminal system to "encourage" PVP.
TL;DR - Make killrights free. There is honestly no reason to require a payout that gets exploited more than used.
Train up a gank alt.
It works for them.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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PhantomMajor
High Flyers The Kadeshi
32
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Posted - 2015.03.17 06:48:42 -
[42] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:PhantomMajor wrote:The whole "criminals in hi sec" needs to be fixed. Minus ten toons should be excluded from hi sec, there are so many ways to get your sec status fixed that moving these people's pods to low sec and banning them from using hi sec gates. Except CCP have repeatedly said that players will never be prevented from entering any area of space because of their security status. If you don't want -10's in highsec then it is up to you to do something about them; that's the whole point of the sandbox. Quote:Of course this would mean CCP wouldn't get any financial back handers from CODE to keep killing miners with impunity. Oh No!! A contender to challenge the Nullsec RMT Cartels influence on CCP decision making
It's up to pod pilots to police hi sec? Oh well in the next patch they should delete concord using your reasoning....as for RMT and null sec alliances, I have it on good authority that its an urban myth :-) |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34825
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Posted - 2015.03.17 07:02:20 -
[43] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:BoBoZoBo wrote: Killrights should belong to CONCORD
No, CONCORD does not grant these rights. OK, so who shows up if you kill a pilot without one? In lowsec? No one, other than other players perhaps.
In highsec, there are a range of consequences including inability to warp, auto abandon of wrecks, instantly engageable by other players and Concord.
Concord respond to a criminal GCC in highsec, but killrights have a broader use than highsec only and there are more consequences for a criminal GCC than only Concord in highsec.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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PhantomMajor
High Flyers The Kadeshi
32
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Posted - 2015.03.17 07:03:59 -
[44] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:PhantomMajor wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:A user-definable filter might be nice. If killright cost is greater than x, do not display killright icon. The kill rights information on the over view is so tiny that many lawyers have experienced extreme jealously over such small print. The whole "criminals in hi sec" needs to be fixed. Minus ten toons should be excluded from hi sec, there are so many ways to get your sec status fixed that moving these people's pods to low sec and banning them from using hi sec gates. Of course this would mean CCP wouldn't get any financial back handers from CODE to keep killing miners with impunity. How would you ban non-criminals from lowsec?
Generally law abiding people are free to roam as they like IRL so it should be the same in eve. But to answer your question there is a mechanism in place to do that. ..can't remember it's name but it involves a group of people sitting around a gate as if they were on a camping trip :-) |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34825
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Posted - 2015.03.17 07:16:25 -
[45] - Quote
PhantomMajor wrote:Generally law abiding people are free to roam as they like IRL so it should be the same in eve. But to answer your question there is a mechanism in place to do that. ..can't remember it's name but it involves a group of people sitting around a gate as if they were on a camping trip :-) Comparing Eve to RL is a laughable argument.
Not only from the game perspective, but from the lore perspective too. It's a game set 20,000 years in the future in a totally different part of the universe that underwent a near extinction event and where law abiding people own slaves, where law abiding people can buy the face of someone else which is then cut off them, where they commit torture at a whole of race level, etc., etc. etc.
Our RL standards are incomparable to the standards of society in New Eden.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
280
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Posted - 2015.03.17 08:58:22 -
[46] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Useless noise is good. CCP should add 50 asteroids that don't give you anything per every 1 asteroid that does, and you need to click on each asteroid to determine if it's worth your time or not. CCP should add 10 decoy exploration sites per 1 genuine site. You don't know if its a decoy site until you warp in and you see a billboard that reads "TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL" Players should have to click on every market order individually to read the price because herp derp derp
To be honest, most sites are already like that. The big payoffs are rare and scale very poorly with the time and risk invested in exploration, especially when in hostile space. The "pay attention" comment is a very valid one because if you don't, even a simple buy/sell order will hurt your butt. And that's the way it should be.
Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity.
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Carcass Jack
New Order Logistics CODE.
1
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Posted - 2015.03.17 09:06:13 -
[47] - Quote
You can shoot me anywhere without a kill right. <3 |
Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
297
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Spaceman Jack wrote:So I decided to try this criminal hunting thing and saw a lot of silly bastards in Jita/Amar with killrights in the half billion ISK range.
Clearly, bait/scam - as most are just sitting in empty industrials or freighters and have nothing but losses.
This is so lame for EVE - EVE should have the kind of balls that would make all killrights free. The only option for them should be: available or not available - but allowing such a high price for them is just asking for a system to fail.
Come on CCP. Let's do something more interesting here. Cap or remove the killrights payout that is clearly going to the corp-mates/alt. I can't imagine this type of baiting is what you had in mind when your top brains came up with a new criminal system to "encourage" PVP.
TL;DR - Make killrights free. There is honestly no reason to require a payout that gets exploited more than used.
Stop hanging around in High Sec: problem solved.
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David Therman
University of Caille Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:59:56 -
[49] - Quote
I didn't think making a thread over something like this would be worth the bother, but this seems relevant enough for me to put my question/experience in here instead.
Basically, last month I went and helped out some fellow running missions who'd fallen for a mission baiter. In hindsight, I probably should've left him to it; the baiter in question was only using an Incursus, who didn't have enough fire-power to break through the other guy's tank (near cap-stable Myrm), and therefore would've eventually given up. But, in a rush of blood, I thought I'd play the shining knight and ride to the rescue.
Long story short, I jammed the baiter, fellow corpie got away scot-free, and I ended up with a KR against me. For the following month he was online for roughly a third of the time I was playing, but he only went and actively searched for me with 1 week to go. When I called him out in local at the time, he promptly gave it up after 20 odd minutes, and went back to baiting innocent newbies. And that was that...
What's confusing me is why he never made it available for general activation... I imagine there would've been a few people more then willing to go and ambush (primarily) a mission runner, but he practically threw in the towel without even trying to probe me down. Isn't it simply a case of a few mouse clicks and inputting an activation cost to set a kill-right as public? |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1564
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Posted - 2015.03.17 12:11:49 -
[50] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:A user-definable filter might be nice. If killright cost is greater than x, do not display killright icon. Paying attention is hard. Useless noise is good. It's only useless until someone pays for it. Just because it's not useful to you doesn't mean it's useless. If your success is only based on others failure it is the reason to worry
Personally i prefer to win without fails of my opponent. Skills, experience, you know....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
95
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Posted - 2015.03.17 12:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
PhantomMajor wrote: Oh well in the next patch they should delete concord using your reasoning....
be careful what you wish for!
Just Add Water
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1152
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Posted - 2015.03.17 12:29:06 -
[52] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote: How exactly, am I wrong? You don't say much and you back it up with even less.
Because you're wrong.
PhantomMajor wrote:Generally law abiding people are free to roam as they like IRL so it should be the same in eve. But to answer your question there is a mechanism in place to do that. ..can't remember it's name but it involves a group of people sitting around a gate as if they were on a camping trip :-)
Gate camps are player activities. Not an automatic game mechanic akin to banning -10's from high sec.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
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Shiva Linga
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2015.03.17 12:30:40 -
[53] - Quote
How about Killlefts?
*drumroll* |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10193
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Posted - 2015.03.17 12:34:37 -
[54] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Except CCP have repeatedly said that players will never be prevented from entering any area of space because of their security status. If you don't want -10's in highsec then it is up to you to do something about them; that's the whole point of the sandbox.
There goes Jonah again, fighting the good fight by telling people who can't function without someone literally holding their hand and guiding them through life that if they want something they should personally do something. I'm betting Jonah has lots of scar tissue in real life, because that's what happens when you bang your head up against brick walls
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
247
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Posted - 2015.03.17 13:36:37 -
[55] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:A user-definable filter might be nice. If killright cost is greater than x, do not display killright icon. Paying attention is hard.
not a matter of paying attention, its when you want to go bounty hunting and every killright you find is 1b+ and when you finally find someone with a low or 0 killright their gone. its annoying.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
247
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Posted - 2015.03.17 13:39:23 -
[56] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Except CCP have repeatedly said that players will never be prevented from entering any area of space because of their security status. If you don't want -10's in highsec then it is up to you to do something about them; that's the whole point of the sandbox. There goes Jonah again, fighting the good fight by telling people who can't function without someone literally holding their hand and guiding them through life that if they want something they should personally do something. I'm betting Jonah has lots of scar tissue in real life, because that's what happens when you bang your head up against brick walls
its one thing to see them in fast ships escaping law like they should. its another thing when they use a loophole that's being known and exploited to allow them to ship and sit on a gate. I found out some of those loop holes a long time ago when I watch a fleet of -10s all in catalyst bump a vargur off a gate for 300kms and then gank him.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
42960
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Posted - 2015.03.17 13:50:59 -
[57] - Quote
Agondray wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:A user-definable filter might be nice. If killright cost is greater than x, do not display killright icon. Paying attention is hard. not a matter of paying attention, its when you want to go bounty hunting and every killright you find is 1b+ and when you finally find someone with a low or 0 killright their gone. its annoying. when your "bounty hunting" consists entirely of checking for targets on trade hub undocks, what do you expect to find? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23280
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Posted - 2015.03.17 15:26:48 -
[58] - Quote
PhantomMajor wrote:It's up to pod pilots to police hi sec? Oh well in the next patch they should delete concord using your reasoning That's not what I said, and you know it.
If you want to see consequences for being -10 over and above those already provided by the game then it is up to you to provide them. Faction Police/Navies already chase -10's around, Concord are the SWAT team made up of terminators that get called up when people commit the only crime in New Eden, which is unsanctioned "murder".
Quote:....as for RMT and null sec alliances, I have it on good authority that its an urban myth :-) And you missed the point I was making.
Agondray wrote:its one thing to see them in fast ships escaping law like they should. its another thing when they use a loophole that's being known and exploited to allow them to ship and sit on a gate.
I found out some of those loop holes a long time ago when I watch a fleet of -10s all in catalyst bump a vargur off a gate for 300kms and then gank him. Which loopholes would they be?
I doubt that you saw -10's in Catalysts bumping a Marauder 300KM off a highsec gate, for one thing the Faction Police/Navy would have turned up to spoil the party long before they succeeded, and for another there's far better ships for bumping than a Catalyst.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
650
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Posted - 2015.03.17 16:14:45 -
[59] - Quote
Vicky Somers wrote:The "pay attention" comment is a very valid one because if you don't, even a simple buy/sell order will hurt your butt. And that's the way it should be.
Market orders can be filtered by any number of attributes, including by price. It is trivial to ignore overpriced scam orders, arrange by price and you never even see them most of the time. You don't need to click on every single market order to see if it is a scam or not, it is apparent and basically filterable. If you are referring to error in user input, having butterfingers and screwing up a number doesn't really relate to the conversation at hand - the majority of killrights are nonsense ones and lead to the killright icon being meaningless and ignored. |
BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
541
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Posted - 2015.03.17 18:29:39 -
[60] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:BoBoZoBo wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:[quote=BoBoZoBo]
Free Killrights = all killrights are instantly cleared by alts/corpmates/friends Auctioned killrights = scammed killrights
OP (and you) are wrong on the impact of the scam. How exactly, am I wrong? You don't say much and you back it up with even less. Your equations are happening anyway. Free killrights are being zeroed out or overridden by more expensive ones from their alts/corpmates/friends, and scams are in full swing with empty freighters and indys just hovring around AKF. I come from the dredgery of null from time to time to hunt criminals and I have observed, as the OP has, that most of the killrights are in absurd amounts, over industrial pilots who have a clearly unusual kill:death ratio; or they are on a gang of pilots, enjoying the victories of skirting the criminal justice system of New Eden, but blocking out the retribution entitled to their victims by having alts and mates place outrageous prices for the rights themselves. This is not the hypothetical you presented, you can observe this for yourself. It is artificial, and in the words of the OP "LAAAAAAAAME." I don't do it much, but I can see that it is not even worth doing as a whole beyond the chance encounter... too much unnecessary white noise. are you really that stupid, or are you just really that good at acting that way? when multiple killrights are available on the same target, the CHEAPEST will be available first there's no such f*cking thing as blocking out a free killright with scam killrights
Holy sh!t buddy - get the fu@king sand out of your vagina. I can see life is frustrating you, but you need to tone back the level of @sshatedness. Train some other skills.
Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
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