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Zsha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.03.17 08:02:55 -
[1] - Quote
Which of these ships has the highest engagement profile.
Which is better and why?
I'm really confused what ship to train to invest my time into training, at the moment, I'm training for a Pilgrim, because I do not have to train for Gallente Cruiser V and I do not have to train any gunnery skills. If I was to train for a Stratios, Id have to train up Gallente Cruiser V and all the Relevant Laser gunnery skills. Pilgrim seems alot easier to train for. Is the extra time training for a Stratios worth it?
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Zsha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.03.17 08:14:43 -
[2] - Quote
[Stratios] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Garde II x4 Ogre II x4 Hammerhead II x5 Gecko x2 Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x5
53k EHP Cap stable 681 DPS unheated. 497 m/s unheated. |
Zsha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.03.17 08:16:28 -
[3] - Quote
[Pilgrim, Pilgrim Solo] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Warp Scrambler II 10MN Afterburner II Stasis Webifier II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5 Valkyrie II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
37k EHP Cap stable 351 DPS unheated. 432 m/s unheated. Has neut capability Little cheaper and alot easier to train for. Has ability to fit a covert ops cyno, to call in friends. |
Zsha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.03.17 08:17:19 -
[4] - Quote
Which would be better?
Thanks.
Edit: Ofc both Probe launchers would be offlined, making both fits fit. |
HoruSeth
Republic University Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2015.03.17 08:43:29 -
[5] - Quote
Definitely Stratios! I would fit it a little differently, but your fitting is ok.
If you rely on friends of course Pilgrim for Covert Cyno ... |
Zsha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.03.17 08:56:56 -
[6] - Quote
HoruSeth wrote:Definitely Stratios! I would fit it a little differently, but your fitting is ok.
If you rely on friends of course Pilgrim for Covert Cyno ...
What would be your fit ? =]
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HoruSeth
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2015.03.17 09:33:06 -
[7] - Quote
somehting like this:
[Stratios, Stratios] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
DRONES
You loose some dps from the Guns, but the Neuting power you gain can speed up the kill after some time, especially if you kill ratters with active tank ;) |
Zsha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.03.17 09:36:47 -
[8] - Quote
Tight, with that I don't have to train gunnery skills. Thanks
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Poetic Stanziel
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
2163
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:04:56 -
[9] - Quote
Stratios is very good. But also more expensive. Remember if you train for the pilgrim. You can also fly the curse. And can't be detected on dscan. |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
853
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Posted - 2015.03.17 11:22:52 -
[10] - Quote
Solo PvP? would go with the curse.
Being able to Neut out to long point range is a big deal. Just Kite with your drones...
[Curse, PvP] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Reactor Control Unit II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x5 Vespa EC-600 x5
For Fleet work...
Strat for DPS.... Curse for Support....
No Worries
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HoruSeth
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2015.03.17 11:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
[Curse, Curse] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Hobgoblin II x5 Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Hammerhead II x5
same dps nearly 200m/s more speed 8.7k more omni EHP, though I would fit a T2 extender Rig to be honest. More initial Neuting Power after the first seconds of the fight. More Neuting Power for 8min24s overall (2xMed + 2x Small) Cap stable with 1x Med + 2x Small, as soon as you expect enemies cap to be down, where Small keeps the overall Cap better to zero than 3 Mediums do. |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
855
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Posted - 2015.03.17 14:04:50 -
[12] - Quote
Speed isnt too much of a problem when they have no cap (MWD is normally he first thing to stop), and you have less neuing power overall. Cap booster will keep you topped up well after their cap is dry and you will stay out of scram/web range if they have a cap booster.
Each to their own and tbh i think i just linked my small gang fit...
No Worries
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1297
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Posted - 2015.03.17 14:17:18 -
[13] - Quote
There really isn't a reason to use a curse over a Pilgrim for solo work since the neut range change. Pilgrim works in both shield as armour variant depending on targets and tactics (armour brawler or shield kiter), Curse's Dscan immunity has its uses but is very niche and generally can be duplicated by uncloaking early as you or your target warps on grid.
Stratios is more powerful but having those ranged neuts combined with difference in cloaking timers and, of course, being half the cost I personally favour the Pilgrim. |
Tung Yoggi
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
72
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Posted - 2015.03.17 14:31:56 -
[14] - Quote
On the contrary, I see many reasons: speed, slot layout, neut range, dscan immunity.
There's a huge difference being able to neut out ships at 37km rather than 24km (I'll let you ponder why)
As for the OP, stratios is probably a bit more versatile, has more DPS, is a bit faster, whereas the Pilgrim beneficiates from a huge Ewar advantage, with the bonused neut and TDs. In short, try both, and find out which ship you like the most, according to your playstyle. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1297
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Posted - 2015.03.17 15:01:19 -
[15] - Quote
Tung Yoggi wrote:On the contrary, I see many reasons: speed, slot layout, neut range, dscan immunity.
There's a huge difference being able to neut out ships at 37km rather than 24km (I'll let you ponder why)
As for the OP, stratios is probably a bit more versatile, has more DPS, is a bit faster, whereas the Pilgrim beneficiates from a huge Ewar advantage, with the bonused neut and TDs. In short, try both, and find out which ship you like the most, according to your playstyle.
Shield Pilgrim is just as fast as a shield Curse and while more neut range is always better 25km is generally enough for actual solo work. |
infra52x
University of Caille Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2015.03.17 15:09:42 -
[16] - Quote
HoruSeth wrote:somehting like this:
[Stratios, Stratios] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
DRONES
You loose some dps from the Guns, but the Neuting power you gain can speed up the kill after some time, especially if you kill ratters with active tank ;)
So I guess the probe launcher is offline?
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Tung Yoggi
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
72
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Posted - 2015.03.17 15:12:31 -
[17] - Quote
It's also enough for a ceptor or garmur to keep you pointed, enough for a navy omen to dps you, should you decide not to fit TDs, enough for that orthrus to point you without having to worry much about manual piloting, not enough to put that second cycle on that courageous tackling frig who decided to burn away after deciding that tackling you around 20k was not a good idea, etc. etc.
Shield pilgrim looks alright, (albeit slightly slower than a curse) but you will find yourself trying to decide whether you want an injector or a TD, or go for a weird-funky cap stable fit. Pilgrim is superior if you want to armor fit, or are more into sneaky stuff.
All these assumptions made me think whether you actually have any experience in the domain you're giving out advice, or if you are talking right from eft to eve forums. |
HoruSeth
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2015.03.17 15:29:41 -
[18] - Quote
infra52x wrote:HoruSeth wrote:somehting like this:
[Stratios, Stratios] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
DRONES
You loose some dps from the Guns, but the Neuting power you gain can speed up the kill after some time, especially if you kill ratters with active tank ;) So I guess the probe launcher is offline?
Yes. I used Threadopener's Fitting as basis and he mentioned beforehand:
Zsha wrote:Ofc both Probe launchers would be offlined, making both fits fit.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1298
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Posted - 2015.03.17 15:39:11 -
[19] - Quote
Tung Yoggi wrote:or are more into sneaky stuff.
Well... yes, given that it's a Pilgrim.
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Tung Yoggi
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
72
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Posted - 2015.03.17 16:17:13 -
[20] - Quote
Good job cherrypicking the one thing we can agree on :)
As for the rest.. well it screams "I am giving out pieces of advice on things i haven't experienced myself", which is quite a bad idea.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1299
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Posted - 2015.03.17 17:19:44 -
[21] - Quote
So how often do you truly solo, no scouts and links? |
Tung Yoggi
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
73
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Posted - 2015.03.17 22:06:11 -
[22] - Quote
I dunno but i cry everytiem |
Tung Yoggi
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
73
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Posted - 2015.03.17 22:11:50 -
[23] - Quote
On a more serious note, there is a lot of info available on players on the Internet, and you really have inquiries about me (and if it's not an internet pillow fight), i'll be happy to answer through eve-mails. Just know that I would not reproach you with giving out advice out of nowhere, if i was myself a stranger to the curse and to solo (the fake and the true) pvp. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1299
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Posted - 2015.03.17 22:22:24 -
[24] - Quote
So all those words like "fought like a man with a curse" and "All these assumptions made me think whether you actually have any experience" are based on you not actually soloing, while we're talking about solo. TRUE solo, you know, not the kind where people "forget to mention" their link alts and stuff. The fact this even needs to be specified says enough really.
For a TRUE solo in a cruiser like that you're, generally, better off with a cloak either to avoid trouble you couldn't handle (and didn't have the intel on because.... no scout alt) and to help grab a target. Of course the Curse is stronger and yes it has a better target selection, mostly due to TD, but again... when actually soloing it's not just the fight itself.
Better lose some more linked Scram non-solo Barghests over it. |
Zsha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.03.18 04:33:57 -
[25] - Quote
infra52x wrote:HoruSeth wrote:somehting like this:
[Stratios, Stratios] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
DRONES
You loose some dps from the Guns, but the Neuting power you gain can speed up the kill after some time, especially if you kill ratters with active tank ;) So I guess the probe launcher is offline?
Yeah in post #4 I mentioned that launchers would be offlined bro. |
Zsha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.03.18 04:36:29 -
[26] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:So how often do you truly solo, no scouts and links?
I intend to play solo only without any links/scouts, hense the cloaky role.
Thanks for all the input.
Can anyone trump or better the pilgrim fit I posted at the start of the thread? |
Perkin Warbeck
Black Watch Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
196
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Posted - 2015.03.18 05:15:34 -
[27] - Quote
Zsha wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:So how often do you truly solo, no scouts and links? I intend to play solo only without any links/scouts, hense the cloaky role. Thanks for all the input. Can anyone trump or better the pilgrim fit I posted at the start of the thread?
Go the Stratios if you want to solo kills. Both of the fits posted seem fine.
The Pilgrims solo engagement profile is pretty narrow however you fit it (turret based ships that rely on cap) and most ratters in null will use drones. In my experience the Pilgrim has average dps and is a little squishy. It has a hard job tackling and taking down bigger targets before their friends arrive even if the target is capped out.
The Pilgrim shines as a covert cyno ship for blops gangs. However, T3s trump them both.
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Aeryn Atropos
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.03.18 06:38:29 -
[28] - Quote
Zsha wrote:Which of these ships has the highest engagement profile.
Which is better and why?
I'm really confused what ship to train to invest my time into training, at the moment, I'm training for a Pilgrim, because I do not have to train for Gallente Cruiser V and I do not have to train any gunnery skills. If I was to train for a Stratios, Id have to train up Gallente Cruiser V and all the Relevant Laser gunnery skills. Pilgrim seems alot easier to train for. Is the extra time training for a Stratios worth it?
It depends,
If you mean fighting each other? The Stratios will kick the Pilgrims ass, It has higher dps and tank and is not dependant upon cap.
If you mean solo roaming for other targets? They are just as good against their preferred targets, A pilgrim will rock anything that depends on cap for weapons or tank. It also has the advantage of using neuts to set the range/pace of the engagement or to run away when **** goes **** up, which is handy for people starting pvp. It's drawback is low dps that can't be overheated.
The Stratios is a much better combat ship but it's high slots are not where its power comes from so don't worry about gunnery skills so much, many people fly them with neuts too, they just aren't as powerful as pilgrim neuts. Drones are the power of both ships so TD's wouldn't be amiss even though only the pilgrim gets a bonus to them, the stratios has more mid slots so it can afford it.
Target selection is key to either of these ships. The stratios will probably let you go after more targets but it will also make you a bigger target due to the Isk value. I would still suggest using the Pilgrim first since it will be better for learning. |
Aeryn Atropos
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.03.18 06:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Zsha wrote:[Pilgrim, Pilgrim Solo] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Warp Scrambler II 10MN Afterburner II Stasis Webifier II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5 Valkyrie II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
37k EHP Cap stable 351 DPS unheated. 432 m/s unheated. Has neut capability Little cheaper and alot easier to train for. Has ability to fit a covert ops cyno, to call in friends. Navy 800's are better in the time it takes to use and reload all 4 400's (1200 total) you can load and fire two 800's (1600) pull the sisters probes and use d-scan to hunt allows you to stick a small neut which is handier for keeping people capped out and allows you to actually neut multiple ships more easily. If you insist on using a probe launcher to hunt I would still suggest using a normal core probe launcher to save the money, plus if your quarry sees combats they will get spooked. I usually fly in WH space though k-space may be different.
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Zsha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.03.18 07:26:27 -
[30] - Quote
Would be good to see the pilgrim/stratios in action through a PVP video. There don't seem many good vids about which sucks. Any decent ones around? Other than WingspanTT's videos, there don't seem to be any other PvP videos, showcasing cruiser level cloaky ganks. Wingspan should get out of his bomber and up his anti me thinks :) |
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