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Kalishka Ashkulf
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
104
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Posted - 2015.03.17 09:39:25 -
[1] - Quote
Then why do some corps have it as a requirement?
Been off for a few months and now I'm back (hello all ). Anyway, been looking at Corps to join, many of them having a SP barrier. Unfortunately, I took my break very early on in my Eve career, so my SP is a tad on the low side. Of course, I've put a bunch of skills on my training and hoping to beef myself up a little haha. That said, many people say SP doesn't matter so much in the game, yet it seems like a fence when looking for Corps to join?
Why, thank you, Thing!
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Charlie Jacobson
329
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Posted - 2015.03.17 09:44:24 -
[2] - Quote
Why don't you ask those corps why they have the SP requirement? Not all corps care about your SP, and not all communities within the game require you to be in their corp in order to play with them.
I support James 315 and the New Order of Highsec
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Dave Stark
7453
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Posted - 2015.03.17 09:50:09 -
[3] - Quote
Kalishka Ashkulf wrote:Then why do some corps have it as a requirement?
because some corps don't want to recruit new players.
because some corps fly doctrines that require a high amount of sp.
because they can have it as a requirement.
just because sp doesn't matter, doesn't mean corps have to recruit every newbro and his dog that joins up because they watched "this is eve". |
Vyl Vit
1096
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:06:11 -
[4] - Quote
Hmmm. It may just be opening an account, and not playing doesn't really give one skill. I'm just tossin' darts at the board in the dark here, but...mebbe how old an account is just isn't an accurate statement of how experienced a player really is. What do you think?
Now, take this skill point thing. At least it tells someone what a player should know how to do. However, we do have a few thousand people who "log just to queue skills" and that certainly doesn't count for in-game experience. Unless (however) these players take about five minutes to ship spin, then maybe a CEO can view them as capable EVE players.
I don't want to pretend to know more than I really do, unless I'm at some cocktail party, however...what dunce said SP isn't important, anyway? Hmmmmm?
Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
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Kalishka Ashkulf
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
104
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:11:31 -
[5] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Kalishka Ashkulf wrote:Then why do some corps have it as a requirement? because some corps don't want to recruit new players. because some corps fly doctrines that require a high amount of sp. because they can have it as a requirement. just because sp doesn't matter, doesn't mean corps have to recruit every newbro and his dog that joins up because they watched "this is eve".
Quote:because some corps don't want to recruit new players.
I agree and accept the rest of your response, accept for this. "New player friendly" asking for 15Mil + just doesn't seem as advertised. Of course, if I was looking at a vet only corp, I would completely understand 50mil or 100 mil+ etc
Why, thank you, Thing!
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Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
296
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:12:19 -
[6] - Quote
Kalishka Ashkulf wrote:Then why do some corps have it as a requirement? Been off for a few months and now I'm back (hello all ). Anyway, been looking at Corps to join, many of them having a SP barrier. Unfortunately, I took my break very early on in my Eve career, so my SP is a tad on the low side. Of course, I've put a bunch of skills on my training and hoping to beef myself up a little haha. That said, many people say SP doesn't matter so much in the game, yet it seems like a fence when looking for Corps to join?
Apply for Brave Newbies Incorporated ... Large Null-sec corporation that will get you up to starts in Eve the best way possible: by having fun!
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Grima The Mad
Ideal Empire Ideal Society
3
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:17:08 -
[7] - Quote
I've seen this quite a bit, corps require X number of SP. From my experience it's not so much a barrier to entry to a corp, at one point I joined a corp in Intrepid Crossing, I remember that they had a requirement for 5m sp, I had just started the game and I was no where near that. The main reason the recruiter told me was that his corp wanted to make sure that people were more committed to the game and took the time to get to that many skill points. Vyl Vit does have a very good point. It doesn't take much to log in, queue up a skill and let it run. Doing that alone doesn't mean that they know what they're training but at least they are logging in and training something. They're engaging the client, even if it's minimal engagement, in a semi-meaningful way. |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
594
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:17:19 -
[8] - Quote
Dear PL,
I just started playing and want to join a cool corp. Your alliance is very famous so I'm apply-ing to corp X.
Regards,
n00by Black.
Seriously tho; every corp has its own plan. In EVE you play with spaceships to fulfill those plans. The type of spaceship you can fly is dictated by skillpoints. For some corps that means you need 1 million SP to fit in, for others a 100.
The reason that skill points don't matter a whole lot in combat is based on the fact that a warpdisruptor is a warpdisruptor (for example). Whether its fitted to a 500K condor or a 100 bill titan, if you activate it on me, I'm not warping.
You in your lowly condor grabbing me will outperform a 200 million SP dude if I escape from him. The difference is the number of ships you can put that warpdisruptor on. |
Dave Stark
7455
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:26:48 -
[9] - Quote
Kalishka Ashkulf wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Kalishka Ashkulf wrote:Then why do some corps have it as a requirement? because some corps don't want to recruit new players. because some corps fly doctrines that require a high amount of sp. because they can have it as a requirement. just because sp doesn't matter, doesn't mean corps have to recruit every newbro and his dog that joins up because they watched "this is eve". Quote:because some corps don't want to recruit new players. I agree and accept the rest of your response, accept for this. "New player friendly" asking for 15Mil + just doesn't seem as advertised. Of course, if I was looking at a vet only corp, I would completely understand 50mil or 100 mil+ etc
new players can buy characters just like everyone else.
low sp and new player are not the same thing, you're talking about two totally different things there. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1295
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:34:14 -
[10] - Quote
Kalishka Ashkulf wrote:I agree and accept the rest of your response, accept for this. "New player friendly" asking for 15Mil + just doesn't seem as advertised. Of course, if I was looking at a vet only corp, I would completely understand 50mil or 100 mil+ etc
You asked the wrong initial question, it should be "Why are so many people dumb as fck and incapable of using reason or logic?". The answer to that also answers your actual question, effectively.
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Marsha Mallow
2036
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:34:55 -
[11] - Quote
Kalishka Ashkulf wrote:I agree and accept the rest of your response, accept for this. "New player friendly" asking for 15Mil + just doesn't seem as advertised. Of course, if I was looking at a vet only corp, I would completely understand 50mil or 100 mil+ etc Always ask the recruiter in the first instance. Even corps with stated minimum requirements may make exceptions depending on the attitude of the player. They may have put that in as a requirement due to a bad experience in the past (awox/spy/thief etc). If you state 'new player friendly' in your corp info you sometimes get apps from players who haven't even finished the tutorial and more or less demand to be talked through every aspect of the game. These are actually more annoying than people with malicious intentions because they usually have a massive attitude problem and half the corp ends up wanting to throttle them.
Alternatively the corp might just be crap, in which case don't join it. Running an EvE corp is a giant pain in the arse but you're more than welcome to start one yourself if you have an issue with the way existing ones operate.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Relax, it is only a game and elections work on popularity, not competence.
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Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
414
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:35:08 -
[12] - Quote
It's generally a flexible thing. I think most corps require that you fly at least their doctrine ships. Which means you need to be able to fit Y and Z on A and B hulls. This as a result means that you should be in the X skill points range.
For example, if you want someone to be able to fly Ishtars, fit them properly and use T2 drones, you're not far from that number. It also means the people you invite in to your corporation have played for at least 6-8 months and are somewhat aware of how to fit and fly their ships.
There are corps out there that don't care at all about SP though, like RvB. ;) |
Mikael Menethil
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:48:31 -
[13] - Quote
"SP isn't that important" The eternal lie told to all newbs, to make them risk their ships.
Combat wise you are gimped. The utility skills work almost the same. You will disrupt my warp and slow me down. And thats about it before you die.
But don't listen to me, you go try, girl!
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Vyl Vit
1099
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Posted - 2015.03.17 10:50:32 -
[14] - Quote
I used to teach guitar. I'd get kids in who'd insist, "Show me what Van Halen does. I don't need to know the names of the strings." I'd tell their mom's to find another babysitter.
I don't think anyone but Goonwaffle rigidly sticks to a policy. Goonwaffle's policy is no policy, which they rigidly stick to, like syrup on a waffle, so they're the exception that proves the rule. Ultimately, we're all looking to spend our time enjoying EVE with a minimum amount of headaches; self-inflicted or those brought on by people who are supposed to be on our side.
EVE is seeking headaches, but hopefully only from your opponent, so you see we tend to try to bend the mechanics of the game to save ourselves misery we or others have experienced before. The biggest pain in the neck is the above mentioned student. We know computer games tend to attract a lot of immature idiots who think they rock 'cause they ganked in WoW, and now they're here to own EVE.
We also know that's a very stupid attitude to take with EVE, and we question if we really want to be saddled with a player who is figuring this out by hard knocks and body shocks. That gets sort of tiresome...so we have the SP requirement. As was said before, people can buy toons. Sure. These get a start date for the new player on the sale date. The actual birth date doesn't carry forward. SO, if a person is in a two-month toon with a 5.0 security status, it's a bought toon. You can't get around that.
There's other data you accumulate as a footprint in this game. Believe me. We look at it, too.
TL;DR? (Then your attention span is too short to play EVE.) We do these things to spare ourselves agony.
Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1295
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Posted - 2015.03.17 11:02:37 -
[15] - Quote
Mikael Menethil wrote:"SP isn't that important" The eternal lie told to all newbs, to make them risk their ships.
Combat wise you are gimped. The utility skills work almost the same. You will disrupt my warp and slow me down. And thats about it before you die.
But don't listen to me, you go try, girl!
SP isn't really important, what IS important is having active brain cells and the will to put in effort to learn, adapt and overcome. You're mixing up the former with the latter. |
Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2015.03.17 11:02:52 -
[16] - Quote
Eve logic: Just because it doesn't matter doesn't mean it is not going to be a requirement.
A good signature always makes up for lack of content.
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JackknifedII
The Congregation Already Disbanded
79
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Posted - 2015.03.17 11:10:43 -
[17] - Quote
We considered setting a SP barrier because generally (we thought) slightly higher SP probably means a better understanding of the game mechanics. Although it turns out characters with high SP can still be controlled by morons.
So we scrapped that idea and replaced it with "are they fun on comms" instead. And that's a winning recruitment policy.
Minmatar....we are generally unpleasant to be around....
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC81MDW6dFa41VdNTt-pTl1Q
Always recruiting
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Charlie Jacobson
330
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Posted - 2015.03.17 11:11:30 -
[18] - Quote
Mikael Menethil wrote:"SP isn't that important" The eternal lie told to all newbs, to make them risk their ships.
Combat wise you are gimped. The utility skills work almost the same. You will disrupt my warp and slow me down. And thats about it before you die.
But don't listen to me, you go try, girl!
My gank alt (who is quickly turning into my main tbh) has less than 2mil SP, but thanks to a focused skill plan he is now a very competent Atron or Catalyst pilot. Useful in low sec PvP fleets, and also capable of solo ganking miners in high sec.
inb4 someone claims that ganking is for bads etc. Personally I find that scouting a target without spooking it, and correctly executing a gank takes a lot more effort and preparation than following an FC's orders in your average PvP roam fleet.
I support James 315 and the New Order of Highsec
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30887
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Posted - 2015.03.17 11:14:27 -
[19] - Quote
Recruiting based on SP is weak. As if any character attributes are sufficient insurance against shenanigans (they're not). Good players come in all skill levels, and/so after taking SP out of the equation you're left with who you know.
Chances are you don't know anyone who plays EVE. This is a big opportunity to expand your social circle. I haven't met anyone who plays EVE outside of EVE gatherings, so the proactive thing to do is go where EVE players are.
You can get into some high profile groups by attending player gatherings that are organized by those groups. By doing so, you improve your appearance: You go from displaying no solid outward indicators of success (who is this guy?) to a name and a face of someone to have an irl friendship with.
You also then become someone worth helping.
To be either party in a recruitment situation where you don't know them and they don't know you, and APIs and gameplay activity are all you have to go on... well, there are stronger bonds to be made in EVE.
Help, I can't download EVE
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Marsha Mallow
2039
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Posted - 2015.03.17 11:34:10 -
[20] - Quote
Grima The Mad wrote:I've seen this quite a bit, corps require X number of SP. From my experience it's not so much a barrier to entry to a corp, at one point I joined a corp in Intrepid Crossing, I remember that they had a requirement for 5m sp, I had just started the game and I was no where near that. The main reason the recruiter told me was that his corp wanted to make sure that people were more committed to the game and took the time to get to that many skill points. Retention is also a consideration for recruiters. If you are new player friendly you invest a lot of time and effort into helping rookies get started - then 90% of them quit playing (often without a word) in the first 6 months. It can be quite demoralising for corps - mainly the CEO who is the only one who can see notifications that someone has left corp - and is a recurring theme when you recruit people who have been playing less than 3 years because of the average lifespan of a player. Even established corps operate with a massive % of their members inactive at any time, but at least you don't have to spend time training vets. I'd imagine retention is less of an issue for massive newbie organisations but it does burn smaller corp leads out because they are usually inexperienced at corp management and have invested more time personally. This is partly why so many empire corps are a bit rubbish/implode which is annoying because new players are being exposed to the worst aspects of corporations early on.
JackknifedII wrote:So we scrapped that idea and replaced it with "are they fun on comms" instead. And that's a winning recruitment policy. ^ Agreed. I've been doing recruitment pretty much since I started playing and it's all about attitude for me. There's nothing worse than spending ages recruiting someone then they get on comms and are the most annoying person in the world. Rookies can be among the most enthusiastic people to have in your corp and if you bag one who ends up sticking around they cheer all the miserable vets up. The alliance I'm currently in sets standings to recruits then invites them to fly with us for a trial, which is the best policy I've seen so far. As a highsec recruiter I used to keep recruits on trial for 2-4 weeks but pitch it as an opportunity for them to make sure they wanted to join - which sounds a lot better than telling them you're being selective.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Relax, it is only a game and elections work on popularity, not competence.
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Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2015.03.17 11:53:26 -
[21] - Quote
Mikael Menethil wrote:"SP isn't that important" The eternal lie told to all newbs, to make them risk their ships.
Combat wise you are gimped. The utility skills work almost the same. You will disrupt my warp and slow me down. And thats about it before you die.
But don't listen to me, you go try, girl!
I'd go as far as to say that SP always matters, not just in combat.
How are you going to make a living, or have much fun at all, playing as a market trader with a max of 5 sell orders and no remote market skills and a hauler that can move 150m3 per trip? Or as a PVEer who is doing tutorial missions and ratting in .7 systems to make isk? Or as a miner who is mining veld in a frigate with t1 mining lasers? Etc.
When people say that skills don't matter, what they actually mean is that if if you have some decent number of SP and they're focused on a specialty, then you can perform that specialty pretty well even compared to someone who has been playing nonstop with optimized training plans for the last 10 years. It definitely does not mean that SP aren't super important to basically everything that anyone wants to do in Eve. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1296
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Posted - 2015.03.17 12:04:30 -
[22] - Quote
Amarrchecko wrote:Mikael Menethil wrote:"SP isn't that important" The eternal lie told to all newbs, to make them risk their ships.
Combat wise you are gimped. The utility skills work almost the same. You will disrupt my warp and slow me down. And thats about it before you die.
But don't listen to me, you go try, girl!
I'd go as far as to say that SP always matters, not just in combat. How are you going to make a living, or have much fun at all, playing as a market trader with a max of 5 sell orders and no remote market skills and a hauler that can move 150m3 per trip? Or as a PVEer who is doing tutorial missions and ratting in .7 systems to make isk? Or as a miner who is mining veld in a frigate with t1 mining lasers? Etc. When people say that skills don't matter, what they actually mean is that if if you have some decent number of SP and they're focused on a specialty, then you can perform that specialty pretty well even compared to someone who has been playing nonstop with optimized training plans for the last 10 years. It definitely does not mean that SP aren't super important to basically everything that anyone wants to do in Eve.
There's very few things that can't be done with less than 5 mil SP. |
Mikael Menethil
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2015.03.17 12:14:50 -
[23] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Mikael Menethil wrote:"SP isn't that important" The eternal lie told to all newbs, to make them risk their ships.
Combat wise you are gimped. The utility skills work almost the same. You will disrupt my warp and slow me down. And thats about it before you die.
But don't listen to me, you go try, girl!
SP isn't really important, what IS important is having active brain cells and the will to put in effort to learn, adapt and overcome. You're mixing up the former with the latter.
Yes, yes...I have to overload my brain cells too for the T1 weapons to deal more damage and be on par with my enemy's T2. Same goes for the drones, shields, sensors, speed, tracking, explosion radius etc etc etc.
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Christopher AET
hirr Northern Coalition.
915
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Posted - 2015.03.17 12:26:25 -
[24] - Quote
All MMO's have newbie content and end game content. In eve this is player generated and SP requirements is one of the ways this manifests itself. Working as intended.
I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.
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Kalishka Ashkulf
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
104
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Posted - 2015.03.17 12:52:58 -
[25] - Quote
Christopher AET wrote:All MMO's have newbie content and end game content. In eve this is player generated and SP requirements is one of the ways this manifests itself. Working as intended.
I wasn't aware Eve had end content, what is this content you speak of?
Why, thank you, Thing!
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30888
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Posted - 2015.03.17 13:18:48 -
[26] - Quote
Setting minimum standards to screen recruits might sound like a good idea, but it's a losing proposition in a game where it helps to bring more ships. Always bring all the things.
The reason "because doctrine ships" is paper thin, since creating a newbie doctrine eliminates that mental block. (if you don't take newbies because lack of newbie doctrine, then make a newbie doctrine).
I'm not sure how worthwhile the rest of this post is, since what I'm talking about is a paradigm shift... but I'll attempt it anyway. A no-scrub policy doesn't mean the behavior isn't scrubby.
It seems like a good idea, but aside from my first point that EVE rewards moar ships, what's the message when you say recruits must have X million SP, and a PVP record. You must have dwelled in your basement for X months, for X hours per day, with X percent kill/death ratio.
I'm not looking to call anyone out, but when the topic is high SP characters and recruitment... and killboards... who do you think of?
You can try to out-nerd everyone in EVE, but you'll end up outnumbered.
It's a bad case of trying too hard to be the cool kids. And tragically, ironically, amusingly, it makes you the opposite.
Help, I can't download EVE
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
247
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Posted - 2015.03.17 13:21:25 -
[27] - Quote
Kalishka Ashkulf wrote:Then why do some corps have it as a requirement? Been off for a few months and now I'm back (hello all ). Anyway, been looking at Corps to join, many of them having a SP barrier. Unfortunately, I took my break very early on in my Eve career, so my SP is a tad on the low side. Of course, I've put a bunch of skills on my training and hoping to beef myself up a little haha. That said, many people say SP doesn't matter so much in the game, yet it seems like a fence when looking for Corps to join?
because its a way to say how long you've been training for, I just looked at an old account and I have a 5 yearold alt on it with 53k sp, so why age is like "awesome he can do lots of stuff" SP says "you cant do jack"
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Dave Stark
7459
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Posted - 2015.03.17 13:42:57 -
[28] - Quote
Mikael Menethil wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Mikael Menethil wrote:"SP isn't that important" The eternal lie told to all newbs, to make them risk their ships.
Combat wise you are gimped. The utility skills work almost the same. You will disrupt my warp and slow me down. And thats about it before you die.
But don't listen to me, you go try, girl!
SP isn't really important, what IS important is having active brain cells and the will to put in effort to learn, adapt and overcome. You're mixing up the former with the latter. Yes, yes...I have to overload my brain cells too for the T1 weapons to deal more damage and be on par with my enemy's T2. Same goes for the drones, shields, sensors, speed, tracking, explosion radius etc etc etc.
if you know your opponent outclasses you in every way - why are you engaging them? |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
854
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Posted - 2015.03.17 13:53:55 -
[29] - Quote
I live in a WH... you NEED to be able to scan, so lets say 1.5mil. Then add in a very basic combat ship (frig) with a point, tank (shield and armour), prop mod, some fitting skill, gunnery, drones wont hurt...
Then add on the inevitable mining skills, missiles (or gunnery...the opposite of above) and you come to... 6-10mil skill points...
And wow and behold thats normally the minimum...
More is better. But to be able to contribute AND in turn have fun and not die instantly with half your ship unfit or full of mining lasers.... a skill requirement makes sense.
No Worries
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1155
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Posted - 2015.03.17 14:07:24 -
[30] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Mikael Menethil wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Mikael Menethil wrote:"SP isn't that important" The eternal lie told to all newbs, to make them risk their ships.
Combat wise you are gimped. The utility skills work almost the same. You will disrupt my warp and slow me down. And thats about it before you die.
But don't listen to me, you go try, girl!
SP isn't really important, what IS important is having active brain cells and the will to put in effort to learn, adapt and overcome. You're mixing up the former with the latter. Yes, yes...I have to overload my brain cells too for the T1 weapons to deal more damage and be on par with my enemy's T2. Same goes for the drones, shields, sensors, speed, tracking, explosion radius etc etc etc. if you know your opponent outclasses you in every way - why are you engaging them?
Because no one ever learns how to pick their fights?
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
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