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Atrial Quartz
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.18 22:11:00 -
[1]
Ok I just went thru and read a post at Eve-pirate that made a lot of sence thought it might be good for discussion here.
The idea went something like this. Ship colision in game is broken as it stands now. Little frigates can "bump" ships 100 times their size and mass and cause them grief in game. The only time bumping is used in game is for harrassment or anti-warp exploitation.
Eve is a ballanced system nothing exists without a countermeasure. warp jammers vs warp stabelisers ect so why not edit the game mechanics all togeather to match.
The first thing is to get rid of collision or what I got from this was auto matic collosion. and have ships manuver around each other and "colidable objects" in the AI. think of it like an auto avoidance system in a plane or ship. it could also lead to a skill or a practical use for manuvering skills that exist now to let smaller craft zip between larger ships and debris, asteroids or whatever the case may be. (think the space battles in the old starwars movies, or B5 episodes) this seems more realistic than what happens now.
The other side of this idea was that you could "Ram" another ship that would have as much of a chance of damaging the ramming vessle as the target. the simple numbers of size mass volume and speed are already in the system. adapting it to a system of dammage wouldent be too hard. I can only gather that flagging the option to "ram" a player would make you flag agressive just as if you shot at them.
What do you all think of the idea? is it something that could be tweeked and implamented? anything that stops an exploit IMHO is worth looking into.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.19 00:58:00 -
[2]
i dunno if ramming should be agressive if the rammed target is smaller though as an inty should never get in the flight path of a freighter, its like cutting off a semi in a sports car. guess who should loose that one.
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Atrial Quartz
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.19 02:23:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Atrial Quartz on 19/10/2006 02:26:40 I dont think it was ramming like you do now, as in hitting approch target and clicking on the mwd. but more like a second combat button that actualy says "Ram Target"
clicking the "Ram Target" option would give you the warning that it is an agressive action security loss and what not and sets you on a collision course for the ship you selected. You would then flag agressive to the target.
It might even turn int a great bluff tatic. a ship outfitted with blasters that could be making a suicide run for your BS or could be just tring to get you into range of some nastier modules. As for bigger ships atempting to ram smaller ones you have to take evasive manuvers or use the evasive manuvers skill levles you have to determine how fast it can get out of the way.
heres an example I was thinking of. Player A flying a megathron is getting picked away by scorpion and two smaller ships (say one frigate and one cruiser). The scorpion is currently jamming the targeting and warp of the megathron. Now the big guns are out of action and the mega cant warp away so player A descided to ram player B hoping to cause enough dammage to disrupt or destroy the vessle as a last ditch attack. Player B in the scorpion sees the mega turn to ram him and has to make a descision. stay and fight and risk the collision or flee and leave the smaller ships to fight the mega or run away themselves.
the math breaks down like this Megathron top speed w WMD = 1135 (made up number dont start quiting stats) Scorpion top speed w AB = 312 Megathron's speed is now 823 relative to the Scorpion. ShipA Speed x mass vs ShipB Mass + Speed in oposeing direction. Ship B descides to keep away from the Mega but cant match the speed of it's MWD but because it is moving away from the Ramming ship the speed of ship B is taken away from the Speed value of ShipA
Your right and on the capitol ship scale these numbers would get even more outrageous. a little Inty would be squashed aginst the hull of a freighter or a dread. Ok now lates take that same senario above and say the mega starts to ram the scorpion. the two other smaller ships see the scorpion turn to put distance and figure that in order to divert the mega the cruiser will have to ram the BS to knock it off course or deminish the speed. Doing so will likely destroy the cruiser or knock it into heavy structural dammage but it will do some dammage to the BS and save the scorpion.
The possabilitys of this are endless really.
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i dunno if ramming should be agressive if the rammed target is smaller though as an inty should never get in the flight path of a freighter, its like cutting off a semi in a sports car. guess who should loose that one.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.19 09:28:00 -
[4]
Turn ramming into an aggressive act? Sounds like a macro miner's wet dream...
Leave it as it is...bumping macro miners out of range of their asteroid belt is a good thing to do. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Zoxia
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2006.10.19 09:44:00 -
[5]
Then we also need to make you hit a moon or station etc when warping and take damage if you dont steer around it.
I dont think they need to change anything truthfully in space there is no gravity and there is no weight and yes a small object can shove a very BIG object floating around.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.19 13:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zoxia Then we also need to make you hit a moon or station etc when warping and take damage if you dont steer around it.
I dont think they need to change anything truthfully in space there is no gravity and there is no weight and yes a small object can shove a very BIG object floating around.
there is mass in space, if you hit a honda with a cement mixer in space its still going to fsck up the honda pretty bad because of mass. this applies on earth too it has nothing to do with gravity when two objects collide.
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Caedicus
Minmatar Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.19 17:16:00 -
[7]
This collision system works perfect for Eve. Most games allows players to stand in the same spot and clip each other. It looks completely rediculous. At least there is a basic collision detection in Eve that prevents this. Yes you can still overlap sometimes, but any more collision detection in this game would eat up tons of resources.
There are so many other things in Eve that are more broken then the collision detection. They need to focus on those things.
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Cellulose
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Posted - 2006.10.19 18:22:00 -
[8]
I think the undock area around station should be collision free that way no one can grief players by that tactic or leave shuttle unattended.
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lofty29
Praxiteles Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.19 19:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i dunno if ramming should be agressive if the rammed target is smaller though as an inty should never get in the flight path of a freighter, its like cutting off a semi in a sports car. guess who should loose that one.
I prefer to think more of a middle-eastern pirate dinghy with an RPG being infront of a Navy Battleship ---
Praxitele's Inc. is Recruiting! |
Kittamaru
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Posted - 2006.10.20 01:51:00 -
[10]
If this is put in, reinforced bulkheads would have a reason to exist!
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Aliniel Vitissun
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Posted - 2006.10.20 03:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zoxia Then we also need to make you hit a moon or station etc when warping and take damage if you dont steer around it.
I dont think they need to change anything truthfully in space there is no gravity and there is no weight and yes a small object can shove a very BIG object floating around.
That would ruin a lot of instant-dock and instant-jump bookmarks. I support this! \o/
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Nomex
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Posted - 2006.10.20 09:27:00 -
[12]
I like the idea of collisions resulting in damage!
I would also like to hear bending and twisting metal under pressure -like with submarine games- when my ship collides, that would be so much more immersive!
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Jens Beckstrom
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:33:00 -
[13]
I truly loves this idea!!! The idea of raming you target is great, still, I dont like the idea of criminal flaging unless u realy hit your target, or u can be corp flaged like when u steal loot cans, that way u can still brake off you attack before u get cnocord on your ass i hig sec space. That way they can attack u for your agressive act or let you fly away. What i realy loves by this idea is the kamikaze consept, maby add a skill that makes u do more dmg on inpact at a cost of ewen more dmg inflcted upon your own ship calculated by the mass of your ship. That way a smal ship coulp criple a larger one by hitting the MWD and ram a criuser at 3000m/s as a last atempt to make som hawoc on stronger foe
Quote: The first thing is to get rid of collision or what I got from this was auto matic collosion. and have ships manuver around each other and "colidable objects" in the AI. think of it like an auto avoidance system in a plane or ship. it could also lead to a skill or a practical use for manuvering skills that exist now to let smaller craft zip between larger ships and debris, asteroids or whatever the case may be. (think the space battles in the old starwars movies, or B5 episodes) this seems more realistic than what happens now.
This sounds like a dreem to me, it whould make the frigs far more agile and usable in a astroid belt and give it a far higer survive rate in low sec where they could out-fly less agile ships like criuser's and warp out to safety.
My english may be crapy, but so am I
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Angfaulith
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:44:00 -
[14]
Quote: Then we also need to make you hit a moon or station etc when warping and take damage if you dont steer around it.
Only the ram target should inflict damage, stations and undocking should work just like before.
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Atrial Quartz
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.22 13:10:00 -
[15]
Your right there, It might have th be a different type of flag then the normal criminal concoard comes to bend you over the counter security hit. Or something that wouldent trigger untill the dammage was actualy done. But this could lead to exploits of someone turning to ram a ship, then taking fire in high security space just so they can break off the attack and fight normaly and grief someone. Making the raming ship flag agressive as soon as they make that commitment puts the choice for retalliation on the defender. flagging after the dammage is done dosent ballence out.
I dont think the OP intended this to be an opening move on behalf of the agressor. security flaging in low sec is kind of distorted any way. Just the other day i was reading about someone useing an alt to boost them self in pvp. The target couldent attack the bosting ship but could attack the one fireing on him. If a ramming system were put in would have to be geared so that it coulden't be used to grief players.
Originally by: Jens Beckstrom I truly loves this idea!!! The idea of raming you target is great, still, I dont like the idea of criminal flaging unless u realy hit your target, or u can be corp flaged like when u steal loot cans, that way u can still brake off you attack before u get cnocord on your ass i hig sec space. That way they can attack u for your agressive act or let you fly away. What i realy loves by this idea is the kamikaze consept, maby add a skill that makes u do more dmg on inpact at a cost of ewen more dmg inflcted upon your own ship calculated by the mass of your ship. That way a smal ship coulp criple a larger one by hitting the MWD and ram a criuser at 3000m/s as a last atempt to make som hawoc on stronger foe
This sounds like a dreem to me, it whould make the frigs far more agile and usable in a astroid belt and give it a far higer survive rate in low sec where they could out-fly less agile ships like criuser's and warp out to safety.
My english may be crapy, but so am I
I like the idea of making frigates more agile. and have some advantage over larger ships. hell even destroyers are just slightly larger frigs and could benafit from a bit of love in the manuverability department. Ive never played Starwars Galaxies but I heard they have a almost titch based space combat system, has anyone seen how it works?
Maybe i am asking too much but after i spend weeks training evasive manuvers i would like to see my ship make some once in a while. instead of orbiting headlong into an asteroid would it be so hard for the flight AI to say "theres a rock in the path there take a new arc in this direction." and execute without asking me about it? it would be alot more intresting than the emotionless crawl my assault frigate takes twords the target.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.22 13:55:00 -
[16]
Quote: I like the idea of making frigates more agile. and have some advantage over larger ships. hell even destroyers are just slightly larger frigs and could benafit from a bit of love in the manuverability department. Ive never played Starwars Galaxies but I heard they have a almost titch based space combat system, has anyone seen how it works?
the space system in SWG is more like a flight sim, you dont click to move you have throttles and drive the ship airplane style. really does work well however the biggest ship for players is ones the size of the falcon which needs players to man the guns there was on tracking on these guns they moved as fast as you moved the mouse however you had to lead your target if it was moving(not as easy as it sounds, leading properly is far more skilled then knowing transversials). hard to compair really as our biggest everyday ship is more like a MonCal cruiser or Star Destroyer in size which are navigated more like warships then planes.
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Atrial Quartz
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.22 14:26:00 -
[17]
Ok So if EVE large ships are more like the large capotil ships (i'd be guessing anything above cruiser is "large" for EVE) flies like a boat than what about the small ones, the merlins and tristans and such? would they be in the relm of a large fighter or still in that capitol range and in turn "fly like a yacht"?
Maybe automating some more movement to the smaller ships would bring something new to eve.
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker the space system in SWG is more like a flight sim, you dont click to move you have throttles and drive the ship airplane style. really does work well however the biggest ship for players is ones the size of the falcon which needs players to man the guns there was on tracking on these guns they moved as fast as you moved the mouse however you had to lead your target if it was moving(not as easy as it sounds, leading properly is far more skilled then knowing transversials). hard to compair really as our biggest everyday ship is more like a MonCal cruiser or Star Destroyer in size which are navigated more like warships then planes.
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