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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Doxs Roxs
White Wolves Defence league The OSS
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Posted - 2006.10.20 10:37:00 -
[241]
Originally by: keepiru
Originally by: Doxs Roxs I can tell you that any new player trying out certain lvl3 or 4 missions will be dead meat unless he has stabs fitted. A t1 tank and semi good support skills will not cut it.
Someone doing lvl3/4 with a T1 tank *DESERVES* to die.
Id say thats one of the most stupid comments Ive seen in a long time.
How welcoming is that to new players?
Personally I ran both lvl 3 and lvl 4 mission in a Ferox, I did have to warp out sometimes but it was quite a challenge. And that was with a T1 equipment and crappy skills.
Regards
/Doxs
After almost half a year, why is my face just a '!' ? And please fix the Javelin T2 rail ammunition... |
MrRookie
Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L
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Posted - 2006.10.20 10:39:00 -
[242]
Along with the HP extension, naturally combat duration will increase but i don't belive the fix is that simple. Most ships rely heavily on the capacitor and might suffer from this, especially amarr and gallente ships. With the boosted HPs and the boosted plates I can imagen tanked Ravens with 15k HPs, and I doubt any Amarr ships will have a capacitor to live for the duration. Eksample raven vs apoc, If both ships run out of cap early in the fight an both of them still got shid loads of armor, this leaves Ravens or any projectile/missiles based ships with an even greater advantage than today. Drones need to match the HP increasement and Smartbombs need to scale with changes.
Capacitors should gain a litle boost Cargo holds need an inreasment in their hold or the charges made a litle smaller If anything, the two points above would nerf the NOSes abit More HP on drones More damage on smartbombs or they'll be even more useless than today
*guy being attacked by a pirat in a complex
Originally by: Noluck Ned *Notify* Concord is on their way to help you, just hang in there, they are waiting for the gatekeeper to respawn
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Halleck Gurney
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Posted - 2006.10.20 10:45:00 -
[243]
Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus
All this skill training just to get a Cerberus with 1 more missile slot and twice the sig radius ... diversity just took a bad hit Please don't.
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DirtyHarry
Caldari Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.20 10:52:00 -
[244]
I like the changes, however, cap charges need to take ALOT less cargo than they do right now else BThron is gonna be useless as cap will be dead long before the enemy goes pop.
Havocide - DirtyHarry |
Inen
Minmatar OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2006.10.20 10:53:00 -
[245]
This reminds me of SWG all over again with the new game enhancements. EVERY possible con was proposed, the problems the communit predicted occured, and they still released the changes.
The most frusturating thing about MMORPG's is the pride of developers not realizing that they may have made an honest mistake and need to rething their proposals. I do not understand why Tuxford cannot just say: "we've heard, and we're thiking things over again." Hell, at least "we heard, we don't care, it's going in" would almost be better than now... almost.
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GOLDEN LAMB
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Posted - 2006.10.20 10:58:00 -
[246]
I share most of the concerns that are allready mentioned.
Alpha strike, and thus arty, is getting less important (after the boost to the muninn to fit a whole rack of them), solo and small gang Pvp will get harder, more blob instead of less.
Another important point to consider are t1&t2 BC and the new tier 3 BS. The active tank bonus is allready sub-par to the passive one and with the HP increase it will get even worse. Tux, do you really want to give the Matari a slow arty fleet ship, with a active shield boost bonus????
P.S.: Is this really a coincidence that you are talking about changing the Crystal Implant bonus to HP increase rather then boost bonus atm?
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Ellen Page
Awakening
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:08:00 -
[247]
No matter the changes ppl will always whine about it
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:13:00 -
[248]
I like 'em, I like 'em all! Especially the WCS nerf
Am very dissapointed not to see a Sensor Booster nerf, though. It still makes no sense to me why that module boosts range AND locking time. IMO, it should either have nothing to do with locking time, or should have a locking time penalty brought in- a new module should be released that increses locking time instead.
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Mangold
Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:22:00 -
[249]
I am pleased with the WCS nerf. It was about time for that.
I am NOT pleased with the HP boost. I fail to see the reason for it due to 3 reasons.
1. The majority of fights are at gates or stations. With more HP it's even easier to dock or jump through a gate. How fun. You'll need more firepower to kill the ship fast.
2. Hit and runs with small ships will be more difficult as you need more firepower to kill the ship fast.
3. In large fleet battles you're usually dead in a couple of seconds when you are picked as primary. With the HP change you will survive a couple of more seconds. Sounds good? Not really. In most cases you're either close range and scrambled or long range and aligned to warp out. You're usually lagged up and can't warp out until you're dead anyway so why the change. Anyway, you'll need more firepower to kill the ship faster.
The only thing this will lead to is more blobs. I don't like blobs and I don't like this change. It doesn't sound thought through. Please reconsider it.
A last question, will sentry guns be upgraded? If not tanking sentries will be way to easy.
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MrRookie
Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:23:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Inen This reminds me of SWG all over again with the new game enhancements. EVERY possible con was proposed, the problems the communit predicted occured, and they still released the changes.
The most frusturating thing about MMORPG's is the pride of developers not realizing that they may have made an honest mistake and need to rething their proposals. I do not understand why Tuxford cannot just say: "we've heard, and we're thiking things over again." Hell, at least "we heard, we don't care, it's going in" would almost be better than now... almost.
Very dramatic reply concidering Tux made the statement 24 hours ago.
*guy being attacked by a pirat in a complex
Originally by: Noluck Ned *Notify* Concord is on their way to help you, just hang in there, they are waiting for the gatekeeper to respawn
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Inen
Minmatar OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:28:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Inen on 20/10/2006 11:29:25
Originally by: MrRookie
Originally by: Inen This reminds me of SWG all over again with the new game enhancements. EVERY possible con was proposed, the problems the communit predicted occured, and they still released the changes.
The most frusturating thing about MMORPG's is the pride of developers not realizing that they may have made an honest mistake and need to rething their proposals. I do not understand why Tuxford cannot just say: "we've heard, and we're thiking things over again." Hell, at least "we heard, we don't care, it's going in" would almost be better than now... almost.
You must not have read the dev blog where the questions raised here were ignored when asked. No, I do not think it is a premature response at all.
Very dramatic reply concidering Tux made the statement 24 hours ago.
You must not have read the blog where Tuxford completely ignored the situations raised in this thread and went around the problem with jokes. Not a premature response at all and a very very similar situation from SOE's response with SWG.
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Depp Knight
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:40:00 -
[252]
they are all very good but im iffy on the bonuses to hp especially to shields, considering that it also increases sheild recharge rate. It will make heavy shield tanks very hard to take down.
but love the wcs nerf
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Slarivet
Caldari Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:50:00 -
[253]
I would love to come into this game as a brand-spankin' noob after this patch, really (not). My last MMORPG was completely broken in regards to money-intake versus required-spending.
On top of approximately three hundred and seventeen changes the players have already brought up in this thread about what would need to be done to keep an HP boost from making this game go up in smoke, there's one that has yet to be added in terms of it taking AT LEAST 50% longer to kill NPCs unless it's left unbalanced (player ships can tank endlessly while crunching NPCs like dry toast) requiring rat and mission rat bounties to go up 50% AND the mission rewards and bonuses increased AND the time bonus length being extended. Otherwise newbs are gonna have a much harder time - the interface and complexity is tough enough (which is a positive thing) without having to deal with less isk/time of play.
Can someone who is gung-ho on the idea of longer PvP battles explain why? I have limited PvP experience at this point, but I love the frenetic speed of it. I'm afraid that longer PvP battles would ENCOURAGE the logoff/run away problems. Can someone give me the upsides of longer PvP battles?
(Yay nerf to pansy-sniping. Also glad I haven't trained Minmatar ships/weapons up much yet.)
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:50:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Mangold I am pleased with the WCS nerf. It was about time for that.
I am NOT pleased with the HP boost. I fail to see the reason for it due to 3 reasons.
1. The majority of fights are at gates or stations. With more HP it's even easier to dock or jump through a gate. How fun. You'll need more firepower to kill the ship fast.
2. Hit and runs with small ships will be more difficult as you need more firepower to kill the ship fast.
3. In large fleet battles you're usually dead in a couple of seconds when you are picked as primary. With the HP change you will survive a couple of more seconds. Sounds good? Not really. In most cases you're either close range and scrambled or long range and aligned to warp out. You're usually lagged up and can't warp out until you're dead anyway so why the change. Anyway, you'll need more firepower to kill the ship faster.
The only thing this will lead to is more blobs. I don't like blobs and I don't like this change. It doesn't sound thought through. Please reconsider it.
A last question, will sentry guns be upgraded? If not tanking sentries will be way to easy.
How about a boost to Stasis Webs? that'd hold them still long enough to kill. And fixing that silly bug where Webbing = instant warp allignment would be nice, too.
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MECTO
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:55:00 -
[255]
Originally by: franny
so with the buff, I just tank(what the domi does anyway), and nos them till they run out of cap, stick my drones on em, then hit go afk for 10 minutes?, come back to see my killmail.... sounds like fun
u came back and u end up with losemail.... cause there's 5 more friends r feeding on your corpse - they have enought time to fly throu' many systems or refit at station . BLOBSKI FTW
Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
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Tharrn
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:08:00 -
[256]
Originally by: d'hofren
<tuxford> Ah yes the Amarrians. Now bear with me apparantly I don't play Amarr or have ever heard of them, I read it on the forums. The problem is that there are some problems with Amarr but aren't really fixed by changing Amarr.
I can't for the heck of it figure out if you were sarcastic there. I'd say you were but the changes and your remark about cap charges actually indicate you were not :s
Could you at least consider to make cap charges take less cargo?
Now recruiting!
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Magunus
The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:14:00 -
[257]
Cut cap booster charges in half, leave capacity of injectors alone, and add a 1600 cap booster charge. Vary the damage type of projectile ammo so they always do at least some damage of every type with every ammo, making their low DPS harder to tank overall. ---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Tehra Neru
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:16:00 -
[258]
This is why i don't like any changes which are applying to a game. 50% of the people are happy and 50% of the people will be angry/sad.
Sure PvP will be better it seems, but i hope others relizes that NOT all people are PvPing, so that means mission runners who are 'afraid' loosing their ships get's their precious WCS nerfed. Sure it damages the outfit but hey.. that's what WCS are for.
And to increase the HP.. well i don't know, i don't see any reason to increase it, as i said.. PvP's will be slightly happier as the battles will last 5min longer.
Shield extenders and plates increase by 50%? Hmm ok.. i have no comments to this but it dosen't sounds right. (Poor arty users).
ECM changes? Hmm.. ok so.. there are some people gatecamping and you need go for a run through.. you can't rely on WCS anymore so insted you try to ECM.. ooh, look it only works on 10km now.. i'm gonna loose my precious cargo.
**** changes.. they always screw up a game.
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Reite
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:19:00 -
[259]
haha always so much whining about every change in this game:D
Btw. i have 2 different chars ready for fleetbattles. 1 amarr specced and 1 minmatar specced. I rather use the minmatar now, and i probably would rather choose the minmatar after this change. Minmatar doesnt have the best dps, but they got alot of other things going for them.
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MECTO
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:24:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Tehra Neru Sure PvP will be better it seems
its not, it will be very much worser then now.
Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:29:00 -
[261]
dont forget to boost the HP on my drones and fighters
------------------------------------------- That ccp created a universe doesen't mean they'r gods
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Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:32:00 -
[262]
Best changes ever.
Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
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Zhaine
B e l l u m
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:32:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Tehra Neru
F*ck changes.. they always screw up a game.
Well that says it all doesn't it. That's why genuinely bad changes get into a game. Because this utterly stupid retarded view is so prevailant that Devs can't see the geniunely rational concerns amongst the OMG-I-CANT-TAKE-CHANGE mentality that leads so many people to post utter bullsh*t.
Oh and to the people insulting and b*tching at Tux and other Devs:
Yes! YES! That's the way to get heard! That's the way to get your concerns listened too! Personally insult someone for making a day old post of proposed changes!
Yes, insult someone and the job they do, call them incompetant and stupid, put ",,|,," in your bios! Yes, then you'll appear rational and logical and reasonable rather than look like a whining twelve year old cry baby!
Don't give them any respect for the level of communication they have with this community, better than almost any other MMO Dev team! Don't recognise their hard work or effort, don't look beyond your own ships and set ups and how they'll be affected and do, of course assume that your twenty second old knee-jerk reaction is more well considered and well thought out than the proposed changes discussed by multiple Devs over time!
Do make sure to make outrageous SWG comparisons based on one single post and not much else.
DON'T, whatever you do, acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, the Devs are human and wont get things right the first time and may need polite suggestions and comments in order to fine tune things to get them right.
Yes! Everyone! THIS is the way to get listened to. - - - - - - - - - -
Quote: I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:37:00 -
[264]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 20/10/2006 12:38:21 Good changes in general. I'm taking a wait-and-see on the HP increase thing, it could be good or bad. Less instakills, but on the other hand less people fitting stabs. We'll see.
One side effect: stealth bombers just became even more useless. They need a rethink after this, badly.
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Wheya
Amarr Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:37:00 -
[265]
I like most changes and I eagerly await the ideas for EW.
I dislike another HP increase because each additional armor HP comes with 60% (70% for Minnies) em resistance on t1 ships. This and the already overpowered and very popular armor plates and EANII are an additional nerf of em damage as long as the vast majority prefers to use armor tanks. This is a problem on t1 ships. T2 ship resistance is a different issue.
Alphastrike becomes less important. Being able to choose the right ammo / missile becomes more an advantage. I assume a shorter reload time would be a very viable option for tweaking.
I say shield extenders (which give a équestionableæ high passive recharge on assault / heavy assault ships) and armor plates are overpowered and most definitly donÆt need another boost. No more 1600mm plated cruiser setups with frigate weapons please.
Another thing I would like to see for extenders/plates is if they would come with their very own éflatæ resistance of f.e. 35% resistance against all damage type which émixesæ with the shipÆs resistance. Example: ship has 2000 HP with 50% em and 10% explosive resistance and gets an additional armor plate with 1000HP and 35% flat resistance. Result would be a ship with 3000 HP and 2000/3000 * 50% + 1000/3000 * 35% = 45% em resistance and 2/3*10% + 1/3*35% = 18% explosive resistance.
As others, including tux, already pointed out a HP increase will become another problem for ships using lasers and hybrids. Maybe increasing capacitor size (and recharge rate) for 100% - 500% could be a solution not only for this problem but also a solution for the problem of nosferatus.
I would love to see longer fights as well. I believe the only way to make that happen is to find a solution (aka nerf) to focused fire. For all other solutions such as HP increase, better resistance or whatever there is always one counter-solution which is always working: if you canÆt manage to kill your enemy on your own before he can jump, or dock or jamm to escape, the counter-solution is to bring more friends. As long as focused fire exists every boost to defence encourages more blobs and ganks / gangs.
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Zhaine
B e l l u m
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:40:00 -
[266]
Edited by: Zhaine on 20/10/2006 12:40:54
Quote:
We're actually quite aware of the alpha-strike effectiveness after the current changes and although we haven't really got anything concrete we feel happy with, we have some changes we want to check out in public testing.
And yeah, I'm fine with you having an opinion, whatever that may be, but tux doesn't deserver that, he's very meticulous in how he works and if anything, he's always picking up leads, testing them out and seeing if the concerns are valid. At least, I get boatloads of emails from him with issues and conclusions drawn based on delving into it.
See you on Sisi mate Wink
Senior Producer EVE Online
Should be quoted in here I think - - - - - - - - - -
Quote: I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:42:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Zhaine Edited by: Zhaine on 20/10/2006 12:40:54
Quote:
We're actually quite aware of the alpha-strike effectiveness after the current changes and although we haven't really got anything concrete we feel happy with, we have some changes we want to check out in public testing.
And yeah, I'm fine with you having an opinion, whatever that may be, but tux doesn't deserver that, he's very meticulous in how he works and if anything, he's always picking up leads, testing them out and seeing if the concerns are valid. At least, I get boatloads of emails from him with issues and conclusions drawn based on delving into it.
See you on Sisi mate Wink
Senior Producer EVE Online
Should be quoted in here I think
That's from where? Link?
To be honest though, it's more empty words unless something is actually done about it.
Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS
wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you were tuxford.
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Tehra Neru
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:44:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Zhaine
Originally by: Tehra Neru
F*ck changes.. they always screw up a game.
Well that says it all doesn't it. That's why genuinely bad changes get into a game. Because this utterly stupid retarded view is so prevailant that Devs can't see the geniunely rational concerns amongst the OMG-I-CANT-TAKE-CHANGE mentality that leads so many people to post utter bullsh*t.
Oh and to the people insulting and b*tching at Tux and other Devs:
Yes! YES! That's the way to get heard! That's the way to get your concerns listened too! Personally insult someone for making a day old post of proposed changes!
Yes, insult someone and the job they do, call them incompetant and stupid, put ",,|,," in your bios! Yes, then you'll appear rational and logical and reasonable rather than look like a whining twelve year old cry baby!
Don't give them any respect for the level of communication they have with this community, better than almost any other MMO Dev team! Don't recognise their hard work or effort, don't look beyond your own ships and set ups and how they'll be affected and do, of course assume that your twenty second old knee-jerk reaction is more well considered and well thought out than the proposed changes discussed by multiple Devs over time!
Do make sure to make outrageous SWG comparisons based on one single post and not much else.
DON'T, whatever you do, acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, the Devs are human and wont get things right the first time and may need polite suggestions and comments in order to fine tune things to get them right.
Yes! Everyone! THIS is the way to get listened to.
Either you see where my dilemma lies or your just plain stupid. Seeing how previous MMO's has been so utterly destroyed in changes (SWG, EQ etc.) This is what i'm hoping that CCP will not go into. Mainly.. listening to people's choices and advices. Do you see anything wrong with the game as it is now?
Hey, i'm optimistic, let's see how it turns out to be.. but seeing how Tux already said how the changes are.. my hopes are not so high.
Do you see me insulting him? No.. so stop acting like a stuffed up bottle.
If everyone agreed to the changes we wouldn't be here.
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EvilNate
Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:52:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Tuxford
Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius
First off, thanks for the info and loving the stabs change.
I have a question about the quote above. Does a penalty to sig mean that if I use a inert stab, I will have a smaller sig radius or a bigger one? If it's bigger, I'd like to understand why this is so, as it seems logical if you reduce mass, you reduce the effective "size" of your ship, hence reducing the sig radius?
Thanks
Nate
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.20 12:55:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: Zhaine Edited by: Zhaine on 20/10/2006 12:40:54
Quote:
We're actually quite aware of the alpha-strike effectiveness after the current changes and although we haven't really got anything concrete we feel happy with, we have some changes we want to check out in public testing.
And yeah, I'm fine with you having an opinion, whatever that may be, but tux doesn't deserver that, he's very meticulous in how he works and if anything, he's always picking up leads, testing them out and seeing if the concerns are valid. At least, I get boatloads of emails from him with issues and conclusions drawn based on delving into it.
See you on Sisi mate Wink
Senior Producer EVE Online
Should be quoted in here I think
That's from where? Link?
To be honest though, it's more empty words unless something is actually done about it.
Linkage
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