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Bastion Arzi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
211
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 16:29:22 -
[1] - Quote
hi all,
its time for me to return to pve to make isk for pvp.
i remember a while ago there was a thread about optimal fitting for a PvE vargur. i cant seem to find it tho does anyone have a link?
Messing around in pyfa i came up with this fit:
[Vargur, pve]
Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Large Micro Jump Drive Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Tracking Computer II Tracking Computer II
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L Salvager I Bastion Module I Salvager I Salvager I
Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II
now the fit i used to use made use of a pith c shield boost amplifier and 2 adaptive invuln. with that i was getting around 3k rep per a cycle iirc.
so im wondering if the new build above will have any difficulty with level 4's becuase of the reduced tank. This may indeed be a silly question becuase we are talking about a marauder here but still id like ur opinion.
ty in advance |
Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
112
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 16:56:53 -
[2] - Quote
[Vargur, Vargur]
Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Large Micro Jump Drive Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L Small Tractor Beam II Small Tractor Beam II Small Tractor Beam II Bastion Module I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Salvage Drone I x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
This fit hasn't failed me thus far.
EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
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Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
211
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 17:28:29 -
[3] - Quote
Very similar but why a damage control on a pve boat?
Also I'm running into cap issues and I bet I can't sustain reps under heavy fire |
Paranoid Loyd
4287
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:35:35 -
[4] - Quote
I don't know much about fitting a Vargur, but I do know you have too many tracking/range mods. That second rig only adds 2-3km.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
112
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:45:09 -
[5] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:Very similar but why a damage control on a pve boat?
I use a damage control because damage and tracking mods are already heavily stacking penalized, the extra shield resists are decent and it adds quite a bit of buffer against ganks, specially given the fact bastion roots you for 60 seconds.
EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
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Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
211
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 18:25:11 -
[6] - Quote
Thing is if people really want to gank u they can damage control or no.
And thanks Lloyd I'll change the fit up. |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
325
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 19:32:58 -
[7] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:Thing is if people really want to gank u they can damage control or no.
And thanks Lloyd I'll change the fit up. True, but buffer can mean the difference between surviving a gank and losing your ship, particularly if the gank gang is lazy.
I run my Paladin with a DCII, a Trimark II Rig and HG Slaves. Doesn't affect my completion times in any appreciable way, but having 170kish EHP means that most roaming gank crews can't break me. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9119
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 20:04:24 -
[8] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:Thing is if people really want to gank u they can damage control or no.
And thanks Lloyd I'll change the fit up. you don't need to out tank the gank squad, just the guy in the next mission pocket over
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
211
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 01:19:19 -
[9] - Quote
just a small update i found my previous build in the op too cap heavy.
this however work quite well so far
[Vargur, pve copy]
Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Large Micro Jump Drive Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L Salvager I Bastion Module I Salvager I Salvager I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
192
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 17:25:37 -
[10] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:just a small update i found my previous build in the op too cap heavy.
this however work quite well so far
[Vargur, pve copy]
Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Large Micro Jump Drive Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L Salvager I Bastion Module I Salvager I Salvager I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II
Drop the 2nd invuln for a TC. If 1 invuln doesn't cut it, consider bling or dropping a TE for a dmg control. TC > TE If you can get by with 1 invuln and no DMG control, change... 2nd TE to a 4th gyro
Tractors > salvagers
Rigs are weird. Burst II Hyperspatial II is ideal (or ambit if CPU is a problem) |
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
944
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 17:30:24 -
[11] - Quote
Undersized repper for cap stability is handy if you DC in bastion.....trust me on this one. |
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
211
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 18:44:11 -
[12] - Quote
chaosgrimm wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:just a small update i found my previous build in the op too cap heavy.
this however work quite well so far
[Vargur, pve copy]
Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Large Micro Jump Drive Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L Salvager I Bastion Module I Salvager I Salvager I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Drop the 2nd invuln for a TC. If 1 invuln doesn't cut it, consider bling or dropping a TE for a dmg control. TC > TE If you can get by with 1 invuln and no DMG control, change... 2nd TE to a 4th gyro Tractors > salvagers Rigs are weird. Burst II Hyperspatial II is ideal (or ambit if CPU is a problem)
The original fit had a second tracking computer but it wasn't needed I can hit to 73km with fusion with one tc. No need for more. Also with the metastasis rig I am hitting frigs at ~10km (tho I think they were approaching)
Ccc rig covers my imperfect cap skills and the cheap mwd.
Salvagers rock! I just sold my accumulated loot and salvage and am 400 mil richer. Dc is a pvp mod imo. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9135
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 18:59:46 -
[13] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Undersized repper for cap stability is handy if you DC in bastion.....trust me on this one. a mate of mine got his Kronos reimbursed because this happened to him a couple of weeks ago, a polite and patient ticket will sort this out
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
192
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 19:18:42 -
[14] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:chaosgrimm wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:just a small update i found my previous build in the op too cap heavy.
this however work quite well so far
[Vargur, pve copy]
Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Large Micro Jump Drive Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L Salvager I Bastion Module I Salvager I Salvager I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Drop the 2nd invuln for a TC. If 1 invuln doesn't cut it, consider bling or dropping a TE for a dmg control. TC > TE If you can get by with 1 invuln and no DMG control, change... 2nd TE to a 4th gyro Tractors > salvagers Rigs are weird. Burst II Hyperspatial II is ideal (or ambit if CPU is a problem) The original fit had a second tracking computer but it wasn't needed I can hit to 73km with fusion with one tc. No need for more. Also with the metastasis rig I am hitting frigs at ~10km (tho I think they were approaching) Ccc rig covers my imperfect cap skills and the cheap mwd. Salvagers rock! I just sold my accumulated loot and salvage and am 400 mil richer. Dc is a pvp mod imo.
The reason you want TC are because you end up doing more dmg at longer ranges e.g. extending the range where a cruiser can be 1.5 shot instead of 2 shot. Its all about the volley count, which is also why burst II is preferred.
CCC rig is up to you of course, but its def only QoL improvement that your taking in lieu of a rig that would help with isk/hr
How are you tractoring? If the answer is mtu, ur really missing out. Vargur can reach out to 48km w/ tractor II, which the majority or your wrecks should be in. You can send a salvage drone out if you don't want to tractor an empty wreck, or pull wrecks in to decrease the salvage drone travel time. The big disadvantage to taking salvagers/mtu is that you lose your mobility, which it bad for auto cannons. I guess alternatively you could go back to the MTU after everything is destroyed, but that's compared to having the majority of the value looted / salvaged by the time completion is triggered, if ur rolling w/ salvage drones + tractors |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
946
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 19:26:17 -
[15] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:afkalt wrote:Undersized repper for cap stability is handy if you DC in bastion.....trust me on this one. a mate of mine got his Kronos reimbursed because this happened to him a couple of weeks ago, a polite and patient ticket will sort this out
I've heard this, but wouldn't want to rely on it. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9135
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 19:36:48 -
[16] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:afkalt wrote:Undersized repper for cap stability is handy if you DC in bastion.....trust me on this one. a mate of mine got his Kronos reimbursed because this happened to him a couple of weeks ago, a polite and patient ticket will sort this out I've heard this, but wouldn't want to rely on it. oh i agree, i would rather not take the loss in the first place but if its a genuine dc then there is some recourse
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
211
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 19:42:33 -
[17] - Quote
chaosgrimm wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:chaosgrimm wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:just a small update i found my previous build in the op too cap heavy.
this however work quite well so far
[Vargur, pve copy]
Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Large Micro Jump Drive Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L Salvager I Bastion Module I Salvager I Salvager I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Drop the 2nd invuln for a TC. If 1 invuln doesn't cut it, consider bling or dropping a TE for a dmg control. TC > TE If you can get by with 1 invuln and no DMG control, change... 2nd TE to a 4th gyro Tractors > salvagers Rigs are weird. Burst II Hyperspatial II is ideal (or ambit if CPU is a problem) The original fit had a second tracking computer but it wasn't needed I can hit to 73km with fusion with one tc. No need for more. Also with the metastasis rig I am hitting frigs at ~10km (tho I think they were approaching) Ccc rig covers my imperfect cap skills and the cheap mwd. Salvagers rock! I just sold my accumulated loot and salvage and am 400 mil richer. Dc is a pvp mod imo. The reason you want TC are because you end up doing more dmg at longer ranges e.g. extending the range where a cruiser can be 1.5 shot instead of 2 shot. Its all about the volley count, which is also why burst II is preferred. CCC rig is up to you of course, but its def only QoL improvement that your taking in lieu of a rig that would help with isk/hr How are you tractoring? If the answer is mtu, ur really missing out. Vargur can reach out to 48km w/ tractor II, which the majority or your wrecks should be in. You can send a salvage drone out if you don't want to tractor an empty wreck, or pull wrecks in to decrease the salvage drone travel time. The big disadvantage to taking salvagers/mtu is that you lose your mobility, which it bad for auto cannons. I guess alternatively you could go back to the MTU after everything is destroyed, but that's compared to having the majority of the value looted / salvaged by the time completion is triggered, if ur rolling w/ salvage drones + tractors
Ok apologies I don't mean to argue or offend however I know for a fact that plenty of wrecks are further out than 48km also the ccc is for survival not qol and the second tc adds barely any range.also are we really talking about mobility on a marauder cos bastion u know. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
988
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 19:46:50 -
[18] - Quote
This is what I have in EFT. go for as much damage and application as possible. main things I would consider would be swapping the DC for a TE, and dropping a TC for a prop mod, or sensor booster depending on what mission you get. [Vargur, Varg copy 2] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Damage Control II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Small Tractor Beam II Small Tractor Beam II Salvager II Bastion Module I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Warrior II x5
@ChainsawPlankto
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Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
211
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 19:51:51 -
[19] - Quote
Not even An mjd? Wasted bonus |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
988
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 05:24:38 -
[20] - Quote
MJD is situational, fit as needed. overall all the fits here are pretty similar. And they didn't really even change with the marauder rebalance. My main change is the medium booster so I don't die to 10 dps on a DC where I can't get back in for a minute or two. Plus it tanks more than enough anyways. If the internet was always perfect then yea, I'd probably use an xl booster and pulse.
and if I wanted to fit a MWD to a vargur I would just fly a machariel.
@ChainsawPlankto
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chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
193
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Posted - 2015.03.22 12:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote: Ok apologies I don't mean to argue or offend however I know for a fact that plenty of wrecks are further out than 48km also the ccc is for survival not qol and the second tc adds barely any range.also are we really talking about mobility on a marauder cos bastion u know.
Sry for the long quoting but I'm using phone and it's difficult to edit
Ya know, im getting a bit confused. You started a thread that looked like you wanted some help, but the only advice you've taken is toning back some of your tracking... getting rid of the rig was a good idea, getting rid of the TC was not... I dont want to argue either, so this will be my last post in this thread, provided you dont agree.
The way I see it, we probably disagree in 2 major areas. First is the offensive profile. Second is the looting/salvaging strategy (which is kinda related to the offensive side of things cause autos deal more dmg the closer you get, giving a mobile strategy better offensive output).
Concerning the offensive profile, I'll do an 'on paper' comparison for you, using this for you: Gyro II x3 TE II x2 TC II x1 800mm II x4 t1 ammo Bastion x1 Metastasis II x1
And this as my suggestion: gyro II x4 (would actually recommend 3 RF, but will use t2 for the example) TE II x1 TC II x2 800mm II x4 t1 ammo (would recommend RF, but will use t1 for the example) Bastion x1 Burst II x1
Your fit: Bastion active: 763dps @ 4.6+72 No bastion: 763dps @ 4+66 @ ~40km bastion active: 604dps @ ~40km no bastion: 570dps max potential tracking: 0.123
My suggestion: Bastion active: 861dps @ 4.7+77 No bastion: 861dps @ 4.1+71 @ ~40km bastion active: 701dps @ ~40km no bastion: 669dps max potential tracking: 0.128
Note, that at the 40km mark my suggestion if not in bastion, will deal more dmg than your fit in bastion mode, by about 65dps. Now here is the major point: in this scenario, you are likely sitting bastioned near a mtu doing your thing, while Im out of bastion mode managing tractors and salvage drones, the tractors + salvage drones will not only clean up faster than an MTU + salvagers, but it allows me to be mobile while doing it. For example, let's say I start moving toward the target(s) that are at 40 km w/ my MWD. I continue to loot / salvage, but now I'm 35km away from them and your still at 40km. My dps would be around 721, which is around a 7% paper dps increase from my prior 669, just from moving ~5km. Of course, compared to your 604 dps, its about a 26% increase in dmg, keep in mind, that is me outside of bastion, while you have bastion active.
The last thing to be mindful of is cycle time. My suggestion will use fewer cycles solely based on the dps difference, but on top of that the cycle times are 0.288 shorter, meaning that for roughly every 4 cycles, I'll shave around a second off of the mission time, even before considering the dps difference.
At any rate, I'd encourage you to at least try what I suggest. Tractors + salvage drones are more efficient at clearing stuff. It takes a little more effort cause you gotta lock wrecks and send each individual salvage drone to a particular wreck, but it is more efficient (and this is coming from a guy who trained into salvager IIs for the vargur...). This will let you be more mobile which can increase your dps as well. |
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
211
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 12:49:30 -
[22] - Quote
thanks i will try out what u suggest.
edit: do u use bastion much with ur method? |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
193
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 11:22:54 -
[23] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:thanks i will try out what u suggest.
edit: do u use bastion much with ur method?
It depends on the mission. In general though I really dont use it unless I need the tank / saved cap, EWAR, or the targets are large enough and close enough to where mobility makes little to no difference.
Examples. Damsel in Distress: * lands in missions * locks cruisers + frigs + battleships * kill a cruiser while frigs are still getting locked * kill frigs before moving to keep angular low then start MWD to the Damsels structure while shooting BS * Bastion near structure
Since everything spawns near the structure, mostly battleships spawn, and the vargur's tracking is beastly, there isnt much to gain from the mobility, and the extra tank from bastion is nice if not required at that range. Damsel is a good mission to practice (careful of your drones on the structure blast of course) on b/c there are a large number of wrecks and the targets have decent HP, which gives you time to micro manage tractors, individual drones, and looting, while really focusing on turret reactivation. I skip the remaining spider drones and frigs that spawn here. You should be able to keep up with salvaging / looting to the extent that the last spawn that you kill is the only group left to loot / salvage
The Assault (serp). Anymore I usually just blitz this one, back when I was clearing it though: * Activate and queue deactivation of Bastion immediately in pocket one + destroy the dampening group. * MWD to a better spot for dpsing the majority of the battleships * Bastion again cause the dps in that room gets pretty high
Other than those types of scenarios, I keep mobile and forgo activating bastion. Off the top of my head, missions I usually wont activate bastion at all: * Right Hand of Zazzmataz * The Score (serp) * Rogue Slave Trader * stuff like that
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
970
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 16:22:47 -
[24] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:MJD is situational, fit as needed. overall all the fits here are pretty similar. And they didn't really even change with the marauder rebalance. My main change is the medium booster so I don't die to 10 dps on a DC where I can't get back in for a minute or two. Plus it tanks more than enough anyways. If the internet was always perfect then yea, I'd probably use an xl booster and pulse.
and if I wanted to fit a MWD to a vargur I would just fly a machariel.
Almost identical fit to mine (but I did stick a MJD on in place of the invuln [tank never needed it] for extra GTFO if I see thrashers on scan late or I'm pointed by an NPC for whatever reason) and I use T2 for the 3rd/4th gyro as the DPS gain (~20) wasn't worth the extra gankbait for me |
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