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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Ito Eto
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2015.03.24 23:59:30 -
[181] - Quote
CPP and fanfest's surprise is more of an reflection of confirmation bias than a reflection on the stats themselves. Young players (i would imagine) do not present a juicy enough target for most effective veteran gankers, you can harvest more tears from killing a barge than a velator with civilian miners on it. You can sit in quite heavily populated hisec systems for days and not see any suspects or crims, ganks are simply not as pervasive as they are presented, except in a few select systems. When they do happen they can be very high profile, kind of like real life media hysteria when a a child murder is committed, thankfully rare, but when it does happen, oh the wailing and gnashing of teeth!
More relevant stats I'd like to see:-
Value of last lost ship/assets lost prior to unsubscribing. All MMOs live off time/emotional investment if your investment is wiped out, it much easier to leave.
Wardec status prior to, or during unsubscribing. Ive seen seen 2 ~20 man corps mass unsubscribe as a consequence of decs on newbro corps, which for many of the members basically meant drop corp or log-out for a week or longer with more persistent 'deccers.
Unsubscribes at 3, 6 9 12 months. How long does it take for pilots to realize the perceived SP wall/pay-to-level mechanic. Are there viable methods to mitigate the SP wall without breaking eve or making it pay to win.
Period since leaving a player corp and unsubbing. I think the "retention is poor in NPC corps" thing is a red herring, being in an NPC corp when unsubbing is a symptom not a cause. When I unsub I like to get my affairs in order and myself out of the corp to reduce disruption to my existing corp and my assets. I guess some are kicked from their corp due to inactivity/misconduct, then quit.
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Lifelongnoob
The Motley Crew Reborn
25
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Posted - 2015.03.25 01:18:34 -
[182] - Quote
how many "newbie" accounts are actually new alt accounts for more experienced players.. hence why many dont die so easily |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
156
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Posted - 2015.03.25 01:28:08 -
[183] - Quote
Lifelongnoob wrote:how many "newbie" accounts are actually new alt accounts for more experienced players.. hence why many dont die so easily
As you can tell by the responses above the Rise groupies only have one thought....and that is what Rise tells them. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12276
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 01:33:30 -
[184] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:Lifelongnoob wrote:how many "newbie" accounts are actually new alt accounts for more experienced players.. hence why many dont die so easily As you can tell by the responses above the Rise groupies only have one thought....and that is what Rise tells them.
Yeah, I certainly haven't been exceedingly critical of him a whole bunch of other times.
But then there's you, who reject facts because they don't fit your narrative. That is a level of intellectual dishonesty that is rare to find in humans.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1155
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Posted - 2015.03.25 02:20:28 -
[185] - Quote
Hang on guys! I have this great idea on how to get some statistics on how bad technology is! Going to go ask the Amish what they think and hit them with a few quick questions, then run over to the next one, so I get their knee jerk answers.
Going out and seeking weak targets to overwhelm will always be supported by the craven.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
33734
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Posted - 2015.03.25 02:23:30 -
[186] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:It was a rhetorical question. I don't care what you think. You have NO proof ganking people makes them stay in the game. You also have NO PROOF ganking people doesn't make them QUIT. You're priceless. "If you torture people they'll love you." I'm not in an argument with you. I'm just reeling from how you think your "approach" to a discussion is so pristeen as to be above reproach. Your issues with Jenn's tone aside, CCP Rise pretty much said both those things are true. He clearly said new players (<15 days) that are ganked are more likely to stay in the game than those not ganked. He also clearly said <1% of those unsubscribing tell CCP it is because of being ganked. That may not be absolute proof, but the word of a lead CCP developer is a close as anyone external is going to get without access to the proprietary data collected by CCP. You should try to put your preconceived notions aside and embrace science and rational thinking as was the subject of Rise's talk.
Well, a lot of people get "griefed" out of the game due to the extremely poor theory of mind that the community exhibits. It oftentimes makes people reluctant to deal with the community and they leave in disgust. At the same time, only about 1% of people quit due to being ganked.
Logical conlusion would be that ganking is not griefing.
As an aside, a lot of people join after EVE was advertised as a traditional PvP oriented game to them. It's only normal that those of them that experience traditional PvP early on are more likely to stick around. The product was as advertised for them.
Why do bad threads happen to good people?
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beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
52
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Posted - 2015.03.25 02:37:19 -
[187] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:But then there's you, who reject facts because they don't fit your narrative. That is a level of intellectual dishonesty that is rare to find in humans. In my experience, that's around the normal amount. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10408
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 02:47:04 -
[188] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Serene Repose wrote:Look who's taking scanty information and running with it like it's a revelation from on high. The most salient point made was (and of course you yourself say you missed this part) there is no conclusive information either way. There is no concrete evidence that "people" (as a category) who quit quit for a reason anyone can state. WHY? (That's just a three letter word, there.) Why? Because they didn't tell anybody and nobody asked them - as a category. Not enough data to claim there's a sample.
YES, SOME of these players who quit have said why. Thousands of people have quit this game. Thousands of people were not asked why they quit. There is no sampling. There is no data. There is no conclusion. And yet folks have been stating a conclusion ("griefing makes players quit!") for years on this forum. Those of us without the "think of the children" agenda have been saying that for years do, telling people "you have no proof of that". And yet they (erm, YOU) persisted. So the end result is that their is not enough evidence to draw a conclusion, but the evidence that does exist points in the direction of "griefing/ganking does not cause people to quit".
You can stay in denial all you like, it's your life to waste as you please, but one day you will come to realize that not only where you lying to yourself, but you were lying to yourself over a video game (and if you'll do that over a trivial matter, what does that portend for the rest of your like experiences?). When are you going to prove that load of bilge you keep typing? (I know it probably made all kinds of sense to you when you posted it.) I'm also betting a Cadillac against a Cooper Mini you completely lost track of what point I was making.
You weren't making a point, you were trying to sound 'pithy' and 'wise' on an spaceship forum lol. If you like to make a point, go ahead, I'm not stopping you. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10408
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 02:58:35 -
[189] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Pok Nibin wrote: I know one of you insists he's operating with nothing but spotless integrity in this discussion, but reading that person's posts you see stuff like this. The report said they looked at the data and couldn't reach a conclusion. I think CCP should think twice before issuing another "report" like this. The report did exactly what it should have, proved that the people who were so sure about the effects of something they personally disliked were wrong. If greifing/ganking were as bad as the 'think of the children' crowd says, there would be conclusive evidence of the fact. As for 'spotless integrity', yes that's how I operate, because the day the need to lie about what happens in a video game (that matters not one bit in the grand scheme of things) is the day I stop playing all video games. I've said this before and I'll say it again, It's not my fault if some posters don't care for the truth in what we are discussing. It was a rhetorical question. I don't care what you think. You have NO proof ganking people makes them stay in the game. You also have NO PROOF ganking people doesn't make them QUIT. You're priceless. "If you torture people they'll love you." I'm not in an argument with you. I'm just reeling from how you think your "approach" to a discussion is so pristeen as to be above reproach.
The truth is pristine and above reproach. No amount of lying or denial changes that. No amount of "you talk mean" changes it either.
I know reading comprehension is hard for you, mainly because you aren't able to swallow your pride and admit when someone you don't like is right about something you don't want to believe (and you are not alone, there are at least a billion of you on earth). The truth is right here:
Jenn aSide wrote:
And yet folks have been stating a conclusion ("griefing makes players quit!") for years on this forum. Those of us without the "think of the children" agenda have been saying that for years do, telling people "you have no proof of that". And yet they (erm, YOU) persisted.
So the end result is that their is not enough evidence to draw a conclusion, but the evidence that does exist points in the direction of "griefing/ganking does not cause people to quit".
You can stay in denial all you like, it's your life to waste as you please, but one day you will come to realize that not only where you lying to yourself, but you were lying to yourself over a video game (and if you'll do that over a trivial matter, what does that portend for the rest of your like experiences?).
What's both funny and frustrating is that for years the liars have been speaking as if THEY had any kind of proof (that they never presented), sure that 'ganking causes people to leave the game), and yet despite what Rise has said now at 2 fanfests, it's those of us who understand and believe in the truth who are somehow wrong and even bad lol.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1155
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 03:38:36 -
[190] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: You can stay in denial all you like... When are you going to prove that load of bilge you keep typing? +1
Essentially, CCP Rise gets up on stage and says, "Look at these poorly constructed statistics."
The problem being that there are so many obvious holes in it, before the data was collected, that we have to wonder what else is going on in the offices.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12277
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 03:41:18 -
[191] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Serene Repose wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: You can stay in denial all you like... When are you going to prove that load of bilge you keep typing? +1 Essentially, CCP Rise gets up on stage and says, "Look at these poorly constructed statistics." The problem being that there are so many obvious holes in it, before the data was collected, that we have to wonder what else is going on in the offices.
Go ahead and point out some of those "obvious" holes.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Ito Eto
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 03:51:44 -
[192] - Quote
"Go ahead and point out some of those "obvious" holes. "
One huge one:-
15 days seems a bit of a suspect sample point to me, sub duration is 30days, minimum. Speaking just for me I would be more likely to let the sub run it's course to 30 days than actively cancel at 15. Various factors:- I paid my sub, might as well not waste the money. >effort< Does CCP cancel the account immediately and refund the difference in playtime, or let the sub run to 30 days/charge the full amount? Maybe I would be inclined to give it another go in the 30 days after cooling down, if I rage-quit a session. If the playtime was plex funded, the sub is fixed at 30 days. (are plex even considered as subs in the data?) |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
558
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 03:52:28 -
[193] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:That is why the social aspect of the game is so important. You learn new things and do new things by having friends..by making yourself a part of the Eve community rather than alienating it. War decs teach new and old player a new path and new possiblities in Eve. It teaches that there is a lot more to Eve than shooting red X's and rocks. There is a plethora of options and possibilies available to ALL players of Eve if they are willing to search themout and be a part of something bigger than manufacturing isk. The game is about community...it is about fun. If you spend all of your time playing to make isk, it's just like a job. War is a part of life and a part of Eve. Little, if any, ever chose war. It is a fact of life and a fact of Eve every player needs to be prepared for. After all, you will not get stronger unless you face someone stronger. If your are risk averse, Eve may not be for you. To lose players that can't hack it in a game like Eve is not really a loss. To butcher the game to cater to those who can't hack it..is a loss. Oh...and btw Veers...something special has happened. I'm sure you'll hear about it soon enough. I look forward to your shiptoasts about it...hehehe
All wardecs do is encourage people to avoid players corps and stick to npc/1 man corps. How does that encourage social interaction? As CCP themselves admitted, the rational choice in highsec is to avoid being in a player corp. That is true even post-awoxxing, because of the constant threat of wardeccs.
I'm curious what this "special" thing is - any hints? |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4362
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 04:21:05 -
[194] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:It was a rhetorical question. I don't care what you think. You have NO proof ganking people makes them stay in the game. You also have NO PROOF ganking people doesn't make them QUIT. You're priceless. "If you torture people they'll love you." I'm not in an argument with you. I'm just reeling from how you think your "approach" to a discussion is so pristeen as to be above reproach. Your issues with Jenn's tone aside, CCP Rise pretty much said both those things are true. He clearly said new players (<15 days) that are ganked are more likely to stay in the game than those not ganked. He also clearly said <1% of those unsubscribing tell CCP it is because of being ganked. That may not be absolute proof, but the word of a lead CCP developer is a close as anyone external is going to get without access to the proprietary data collected by CCP. You should try to put your preconceived notions aside and embrace science and rational thinking as was the subject of Rise's talk. probably the simplest way to phrase this is that ccp is an authority, considering we're never going to have access to the information ccp does
it's a formal fallacy but it's a strong enough premise in real-life practical thinking |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12279
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 04:40:20 -
[195] - Quote
Ito Eto wrote: 15 days seems a bit of a suspect sample point to me, sub duration is 30days, minimum.
It's half of what a free trial is now. They wanted to see what effect the initial interactions had on new players, seems fine to me.
It also seems like you're trying too hard to find something wrong, and fixating on the time period.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Remiel Pollard
Against All Odds.
6542
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 04:48:01 -
[196] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Kaely Tanniss wrote:That is why the social aspect of the game is so important. You learn new things and do new things by having friends..by making yourself a part of the Eve community rather than alienating it. War decs teach new and old player a new path and new possiblities in Eve. It teaches that there is a lot more to Eve than shooting red X's and rocks. There is a plethora of options and possibilies available to ALL players of Eve if they are willing to search themout and be a part of something bigger than manufacturing isk. The game is about community...it is about fun. If you spend all of your time playing to make isk, it's just like a job. War is a part of life and a part of Eve. Little, if any, ever chose war. It is a fact of life and a fact of Eve every player needs to be prepared for. After all, you will not get stronger unless you face someone stronger. If your are risk averse, Eve may not be for you. To lose players that can't hack it in a game like Eve is not really a loss. To butcher the game to cater to those who can't hack it..is a loss. Oh...and btw Veers...something special has happened. I'm sure you'll hear about it soon enough. I look forward to your shiptoasts about it...hehehe All wardecs do is encourage people to avoid players corps and stick to npc/1 man corps. How does that encourage social interaction? As CCP themselves admitted, the rational choice in highsec is to avoid being in a player corp. That is true even post-awoxxing, because of the constant threat of wardeccs. I'm curious what this "special" thing is - any hints?
Spaceship violence is an integral part of what EVE Online is. If people don't like spaceship violence, or don't want it, then EVE is not for them, it's really that simple.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
558
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Posted - 2015.03.25 04:49:50 -
[197] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Spaceship violence is an integral part of what EVE Online is. If people don't like spaceship violence, or don't want it, then EVE is not for them, it's really that simple.
Cute idea, but false.
Station traders face no violence. Scammers face no violence. Manufacturers face no violence. And experienced PvE players face virtually no violence. It's the new/casual players getting beaten down, not folks like me. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
673
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 04:56:29 -
[198] - Quote
Makes sense. Most noobs are probably going to stay in the NPC corp for the first two weeks and fiddle around with the noob missions and Sisters arc. So most won't get wardeced. And most 2 week old noobs won't be worth ganking.
I suspect some of those legally killed noobs are actually alts of established players who are trying out new things, joining RvB, faction warfare, etc.
Most two week old noobs who quit probably do so because they find the game boring or can't find any yellow exclamation marks telling them what to do. Players leaving due to ganks and wardecs and such are likely older players who have been repeatedly "victimized" and get fed up. At least that's been my experience with some high sec carebear corps I've had characters in. They've all fallen apart after the CEO finally figures out they don't like the game/players and quits. |
Remiel Pollard
Against All Odds.
6542
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 05:07:23 -
[199] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:
Spaceship violence is an integral part of what EVE Online is. If people don't like spaceship violence, or don't want it, then EVE is not for them, it's really that simple.
Cute idea, but false. Station traders face no violence. Scammers face no violence. Manufacturers face no violence. And experienced PvE players face virtually no violence. It's the new/casual players getting beaten down, not folks like me.
No, perfectly correct. Spaceship violence is the fundamental reason for EVE's existence. Spaceship violence is the fundamental reason for manufacturing and mining. Just as spaceship violence wouldn't exist without manufacturing and mining, so too would manufacturing and mining not exist without spaceship violence. As for scammers, they're just alts of toons trying to make some isk for spaceship violence. Really, Veers, for once, use a little brain capacity. Just a little, try to apply it to some actual reason and common sense. The bottom line is, EVE's core fundamental principles all revolve around spaceship violence. Everything else in the game is to facilitate said violence, as the game was always intended, as it always has been, and always will be. One need only be privy to the development of the game and the pre-alpha to understand this. Denial of that fundamental fact is merely a demonstration that you do not understand EVE, and any opinion you may have on something without understanding it is of zero value. Literally zero.
Might as well try to be claiming that cars aren't fundamentally about transport because they have cup holders so they're equally useful as dining rooms.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4363
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Posted - 2015.03.25 05:11:37 -
[200] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:I suspect some of those legally killed noobs are actually alts of established players who are trying out new things, joining RvB, faction warfare, etc. rise said they're not alts, they're users in their first fifteen days in eve |
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Ito Eto
State War Academy Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2015.03.25 05:14:43 -
[201] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ito Eto wrote: 15 days seems a bit of a suspect sample point to me, sub duration is 30days, minimum.
It's half of what a free trial is now. They wanted to see what effect the initial interactions had on new players, seems fine to me. It also seems like you're trying too hard to find something wrong, and fixating on the time period.
Well you asked, I thought Id back it up with some thinking rather than trotting out some trite one liner. 30 days is nothing in EvE, you barely will have the SP to make a poorly fit t1 cruiser, let alone discover more than one career path effectively.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
35080
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 05:24:28 -
[202] - Quote
Ito Eto wrote:30 days is nothing in EvE, you barely will have the SP to make a poorly fit t1 cruiser, let alone discover more than one career path effectively. 30 days is nothing yes, to those of us that subscribe to the game and get hooked on it.
But CCP have been trying to find out why 50% of new players leave within the first month. Until recently, that basically meant 50% on new players didn't advance beyond the trial period of 15 days.
One argument often thrown around in the community is that new players don't stay in the game because they are griefed out of it.
So CCP went looking to try to validate that claim, at least for that 50%.
So far, every time CCP have written something on it, they have been clear in the view that they aren't able to validate that claim at all.
That's what those statistics show. That the 50% of new players that leave within the first month are not leaving because of ganks.
There appears to be no substance to the claim that new players are being griefed out of the game, over the time period that CCP were interested in looking at.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
673
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Posted - 2015.03.25 05:25:20 -
[203] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:I suspect some of those legally killed noobs are actually alts of established players who are trying out new things, joining RvB, faction warfare, etc. rise said they're not alts, they're users in their first fifteen days in eve
Ah, cool. Now I'm curious about this 13% and want to see another breakdown showing what these noobins were up to. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4363
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 06:02:14 -
[204] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:I suspect some of those legally killed noobs are actually alts of established players who are trying out new things, joining RvB, faction warfare, etc. rise said they're not alts, they're users in their first fifteen days in eve Ah, cool. Now I'm curious about this 13% and want to see another breakdown showing what these noobins were up to. i haven't seen any statistics for three days now. when i close my eyes, i see graphs on the inside of the lids
i need some percentages or i might lose my mind. who do i have to sleep with |
Ito Eto
State War Academy Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2015.03.25 06:02:40 -
[205] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Ito Eto wrote:30 days is nothing in EvE, you barely will have the SP to make a poorly fit t1 cruiser, let alone discover more than one career path effectively. 30 days is nothing yes, to those of us that subscribe to the game and get hooked on it. But CCP have been trying to find out why 50% of new players leave within the first month. Until recently, that basically meant 50% on new players didn't advance beyond the trial period of 15 days. One argument often thrown around in the community is that new players don't stay in the game because they are griefed out of it. So CCP went looking to try to validate that claim, at least for that 50%. So far, every time CCP have written something on it, they have been clear in the view that they aren't able to validate that claim at all. That's what those statistics show. That the 50% of new players that leave within the first month are not leaving because of ganks. There appears to be no substance to the claim that new players are being griefed out of the game, over the time period that CCP were interested in looking at.
Thanks for the historical context, most enlightening.
Seems to me CCP should ask newbros in game how they feel about it, rather than when the player is cancelling, I doubt someone who is in the act of cancelling their sub is much interested in spending more time on the process than they have to.
Not 10 minutes after first log in, as happened to my friend a couple of weeks back. I would imagine very few players will have an opinion while they are still trying to find the undock button. :)
Some kind of low effort, multiple choice form after 10 hours of play. |
Steppa Musana
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 06:33:13 -
[206] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ito Eto wrote: 15 days seems a bit of a suspect sample point to me, sub duration is 30days, minimum.
It's half of what a free trial is now. They wanted to see what effect the initial interactions had on new players, seems fine to me. It also seems like you're trying too hard to find something wrong, and fixating on the time period. When people like James315 are posting articles about how their antics dont cause new players to quit, its important to point out the flaws in this data. Is James talking about 15 day old players? He's responding to his critics, the critics that say griefers makes players that can fly freighters, exhumers and Ravens quit. "It just goes to show 15 day old characters dont quit because of griefing" is a cover for the real intentions... defending griefing players in highsec that are older than 15 days.
Thats the real intellectual dishonesty here. Pretending this whole thing isnt a stealth, "lalalala wardeccing corps for 3 months and humiliating players on a troll blog doesnt cause them to quit lalalala" |
Ito Eto
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 06:44:50 -
[207] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ito Eto wrote: 15 days seems a bit of a suspect sample point to me, sub duration is 30days, minimum.
It's half of what a free trial is now. They wanted to see what effect the initial interactions had on new players, seems fine to me. It also seems like you're trying too hard to find something wrong, and fixating on the time period. When people like James315 are posting articles about how their antics dont cause new players to quit, its important to fixate on how flawed it is to connect this data to that conclusion. Is James talking about 15 day old players? He's responding to his critics, the critics that say griefers makes players that can fly freighters, exhumers and Ravens quit. "It just goes to show 15 day old characters dont quit because of griefing" is a cover for the real intentions... defending griefing players in highsec that are older than 15 days. Thats the real intellectual dishonesty here. Pretending this whole thing isnt a stealth, "lalalala wardeccing corps for 3 months and humiliating players on a troll blog doesnt cause them to quit lalalala"
I did gather from his rather adversarial method of address he was rather more interested in the form of his own words than any constructive or intelligent debate, I was just humoring the poor little mite. I would set him to ignore, but his tantrums are so entertaining.
Though it did eventually reveal more interesting input from people such as yourself and Scipio. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4363
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 07:22:17 -
[208] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote:Good job, proving my point above. "There is a lack of evidence suggesting players killed in their first 15 days quit over it" in your mind suggests "highsec griefing does not cause players to quit". Are you religious by any chance? please explain what you're insinuating by that question, npc corp poster steppa musana |
Ito Eto
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 07:38:00 -
[209] - Quote
Possibly that incorrect inference is a feature of religious dogmas.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16187
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Posted - 2015.03.25 08:02:05 -
[210] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Syn Shi wrote:Lifelongnoob wrote:how many "newbie" accounts are actually new alt accounts for more experienced players.. hence why many dont die so easily As you can tell by the responses above the Rise groupies only have one thought....and that is what Rise tells them. Yeah, I certainly haven't been exceedingly critical of him a whole bunch of other times. But then there's you, who reject facts because they don't fit your narrative. That is a level of intellectual dishonesty that is rare to find in humans.
Um...
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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