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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5270
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Posted - 2015.03.31 06:01:14 -
[241] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:They know someone is ratting or in system with the map but that's all. Its unlikely alliance chat is going to be happy answering 100's of "is anyone in xxx system" every hour. Quite honestly that's not all, if you know null well you know exactly where people are doing PvE. The map stats and sov stats give it away more. Following the new changes sov will shrink a bit meaning it will be trivial to find an entire groups area of operation.
Infinity Ziona wrote:Null is different from WH's not just in its inclusion of local. The lowest truesec is all soloable, officers included, which is not the case with the highest class wormholes. There's no worrying about the next system to you suddenly changing from happy carebears to hardcore pvpr's (new wormholes) on a regular basis. There's a consistent and reliable navigation system that doesn't change or collapse suddenly. The changing of navigation is a benefit in wormholes, it means that if someone wants to hunt you down specifically they need to find an entrance which isn't as simple as setting a route and following it. Navigating out of your wormhole is far easier than navigating into it, not to mention you can flip the static if you want a new location. And don't forget you can restrict what ships that hardcore PvP group can be in by the class of wormhole you live in, plus they have to come in from the wormholes which will collapse behind them if they bring in too much, while you can build whatever you want in the hole.
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Leannor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
146
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Posted - 2015.03.31 09:09:47 -
[242] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Who cares if you could pinpoint them? As it is 9/10 people who complain about cloakers cant be arsed to undock anyways, so what does knowing the location of the possible hostile going to change? Now instead of "Go away cloaky bastard whos mother I totally had relations with last night!" being typed in local from the perfect safety of the station, it will be "Will someone please go take care of the cloaky that's somewhere within 50km of planet 3 for me because I wanna mine and he might be armed and have bad intentions!!!!!".. once again typed in local from the perfect safety of a station. And so the tears begin from those who aren't going to be able to harass anymore simply by sitting cloaked up. The only thing better than this change is the sporadic outbursts of tears from those upset to see it happening. Most people I know in null who complain about afk cloakers are VERY eager to be able to kill them after the change, so I have NO clue where you got your 9/10 stats from.
Yup, nothing against genuine active cloaky campers, who are actively playing the game and using their cloak to good scary effect.
but for those who wish to genuinely afk for 23/7 in an imicus, (or whatever ship), then, a way to nudge them out of cloak or find them using a specifici tool - lemmie at em.
If it also means we can catch a cloaky in a snooze and fight him out? so be it. :)
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2290
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Posted - 2015.03.31 09:35:31 -
[243] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Honestly the whining about AFK cloaking is absurd....just deal with it, the guy is probably at work playing minecraft. The guy being at work playing minecraft is why its so dangerous. I'm talking from a position of being one of those cloakers. Not the kind that sits in an t1 frig. I'd sit in a ganky prot for 23 hours a day in a hub system sleeping, at work, doing whatever and every random interval, might be an hour or 2 days I'd check the belts, anoms and kill someone, then go afk for an indefinite period of time.
This tactic gives you the ability to tie up an entire system, the randomness of the attacks defeat CTA, not ratting / mining, not hauling... basically the only option is to a) risk getting randomly ganked 23/7 or leave the entire system.
I was just a single ship and I managed a 22/1 k/d. Imagine what someone with a cyno gen can do with the same tactics... actually you don't have to, check killboards and you'll find the perma-camping cyno alts with 1k/0 losses. There's no counter other than leaving system or setting a trap with your gang waiting anywhere from hours to days without sleep.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15538
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Posted - 2015.03.31 10:34:58 -
[244] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel.
It is the only way to mess with it.
No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence.
Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local.
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
282
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Posted - 2015.03.31 10:41:46 -
[245] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local.
and whats the counter to afk cloaking, recons, blops, covert cynos if you remove local?
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2765
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Posted - 2015.03.31 10:44:36 -
[246] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local. and whats the counter to afk cloaking, recons, blops, covert cynos if you remove local? And here is the double edge sword, if local counters those then what is to counter local, afk cloaking.
Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
282
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Posted - 2015.03.31 10:46:33 -
[247] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Lan Wang wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local. and whats the counter to afk cloaking, recons, blops, covert cynos if you remove local? And here is the double edge sword, if local counters those then what is to counter local, afk cloaking.
isnt the counter to local cynos which can instantly bridge in fleets of ships? its not like cloaky ships are inefficient
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Bagatur I
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
57
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Posted - 2015.03.31 10:46:34 -
[248] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:During the Sat morning event, Yitterbum made it sound like you could manually "pulse" the module like once an hour and it would decloak everything in system. he made it seem liek manual so you couldn't time it or anything.
Then you had to probe stuff down manually
If the cloaker is truly afk, easy kill, if they are not afk, they can cloak back up after the 30 sec timer
and what if you are in a tight spot and need the cloak right there and then? that would drastically interfere with the gameplay of those who use cloak legitimately. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15538
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Posted - 2015.03.31 10:47:17 -
[249] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local. and whats the counter to afk cloaking, recons, blops, covert cynos if you remove local? or do you think its a good idea that people can remain 100% invisible with the option to drop 20k+ dps whenever they want?
Im not asking for its removal.
Both are tied together, remove one and you have to deal with the other.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15538
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Posted - 2015.03.31 10:53:26 -
[250] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote: isnt the counter to local cynos which can instantly bridge in fleets of ships? its not like cloaky ships are inefficient
How do you get the cyno ship into system without showing up in local?
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Leannor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
146
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Posted - 2015.03.31 10:58:30 -
[251] - Quote
Bagatur I wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:During the Sat morning event, Yitterbum made it sound like you could manually "pulse" the module like once an hour and it would decloak everything in system. he made it seem liek manual so you couldn't time it or anything.
Then you had to probe stuff down manually
If the cloaker is truly afk, easy kill, if they are not afk, they can cloak back up after the 30 sec timer and what if you are in a tight spot and need the cloak right there and then? that would drastically interfere with the gameplay of those who use cloak legitimately.
tbh no need for a timer, ... just a decloak. Genuine covert ops should be able to recloak instantly, if they're actually playing the game. This won't have any impact on a strategic cloaky ... just get safe at the pulse time, then get back.
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
282
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Posted - 2015.03.31 10:59:11 -
[252] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lan Wang wrote: isnt the counter to local cynos which can instantly bridge in fleets of ships? its not like cloaky ships are inefficient
How do you get the cyno ship into system without showing up in local?
well you show up in local which is what is needed, having a cyno ship invisible to everyone in system is just op, anything that delays or doesnt show in local is just too op especially when you have ships which are only visible via local.
i also think decloaking every covops is a bad idea, you shouldnt be allowed to decloak everything in system which has a cloak they need to be scannable in some way to make it fair towards people who are genuinely playing.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15538
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Posted - 2015.03.31 11:00:49 -
[253] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:
well you show up in local which is what is needed, having a cyno ship invisible to everyone in system is just op, anything that delays or doesnt show in local is just too op especially when you have ships which are only visible via local
Which means the cyno ship is not a counter to local.
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
282
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Posted - 2015.03.31 11:03:03 -
[254] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
well you show up in local which is what is needed, having a cyno ship invisible to everyone in system is just op, anything that delays or doesnt show in local is just too op especially when you have ships which are only visible via local
Which means the cyno ship is not a counter to local.
no but whatever is on the other end of the cyno is
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15538
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Posted - 2015.03.31 11:06:00 -
[255] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:
no but whatever is on the other end of the cyno is
Irrelevant, the cyno ship was spotted and there are no targets to drop on.
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
282
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 11:10:27 -
[256] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
no but whatever is on the other end of the cyno is
Irrelevant, the cyno ship was spotted and there are no targets to drop on.
as said afk (if thats the right word) cloaking is not inefficient, they still get kills, take a look at confederation of pizza, they get tons of kills by placing cov ops cyno chars in dozens of systems, regardless if its the ratters ignorance or not the tactic still works well and the power to drop a fleet of high dps ships onto any target is enough without having to give any local restrictions
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15538
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Posted - 2015.03.31 11:16:03 -
[257] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
no but whatever is on the other end of the cyno is
Irrelevant, the cyno ship was spotted and there are no targets to drop on. as said afk (if thats the right word) cloaking is not inefficient, they still get kills, take a look at confederation of pizza, they get tons of kills by placing cov ops cyno chars in dozens of systems, regardless if its the ratters ignorance or not the tactic still works well and the power to drop a fleet of high dps ships onto any target is enough without having to give any local restrictions
Which brings us nicely back to the fact that AFK cloaking is the only counter to local.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1178
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Posted - 2015.03.31 12:55:27 -
[258] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Cant have one without the other. Remove AFK cloaking without dealing with local and ... Wrong. Done right active cloaking is just as effective but requires some effort and intelligence.
I praise the gods of average IQs that people do not see how to properly apply tactics and use weak / broken mechanics to completely break this game - yet.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6519
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Posted - 2015.03.31 15:24:58 -
[259] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Honestly the whining about AFK cloaking is absurd....just deal with it, the guy is probably at work playing minecraft. The guy being at work playing minecraft is why its so dangerous. I'm talking from a position of being one of those cloakers. Not the kind that sits in an t1 frig. I'd sit in a ganky prot for 23 hours a day in a hub system sleeping, at work, doing whatever and every random interval, might be an hour or 2 days I'd check the belts, anoms and kill someone, then go afk for an indefinite period of time. This tactic gives you the ability to tie up an entire system, the randomness of the attacks defeat CTA, not ratting / mining, not hauling... basically the only option is to a) risk getting randomly ganked 23/7 or leave the entire system. I was just a single ship and I managed a 22/1 k/d. Imagine what someone with a cyno gen can do with the same tactics... actually you don't have to, check killboards and you'll find the perma-camping cyno alts with 1k/0 losses. There's no counter other than leaving system or setting a trap with your gang waiting anywhere from hours to days without sleep.
What you have described there is in fact a play style in and of itself. And I have seen some people do just that simply to do just that.
Playing the game without playing the game.
And the goons come in here trying to flip the argument into being about local. It's out of the Alinsky playbook.
Bottom line is that indefinite AFK cloaking is bad for the game. Look at how it gets used and look at how "that one big organization" that can deal with it sells nullsec carebearing to the same kind of people they complain about who go carebearing elsewhere and don't join their large organization. All of the arguments are transparent.
And the very people who have vile hatred of "bot aspirant" players who are AFK suddenly want to defend a playstyle that relies on being AFK.
Are people this blind to their own folly? No wonder the world is going down the toilet.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Talvorian Dex
Repercussus Goonswarm Federation
59
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Posted - 2015.03.31 20:07:24 -
[260] - Quote
Adriana Nolen wrote:Quote: E. Observatory arrays
Dedicated to intelligence gathering. ...... be able to affect or pinpoint cloak users. ....
Speechless
I love it. I only hope there's some trade-off so you can only have X number of "modifier" arrays deployed at one time. Then you do really have to make choices.
Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5271
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Posted - 2015.03.31 21:03:02 -
[261] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local. But it's not a counter to local. It doesn't stop local working, it doesn't counter it's ability to detect new players. It uses local as a tool to counter PvE activity, that's all.
And no, that's not all you can do. thousands of kills occur every single day without AFK cloakers being involved, so obviously there's other things that work.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1185
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Posted - 2015.04.01 13:33:55 -
[262] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:... Bottom line is that indefinite AFK cloaking is bad for the game. Look at how it gets used and look at how "that one big organization" that can deal with it sells nullsec carebearing to the same kind of people they complain about who go carebearing elsewhere and don't join their large organization. All of the arguments are transparent. ... Are people this blind to their own folly? No wonder the world is going down the toilet. I concur. EVE could do with some target marketing (Ubuntu Software Center for Linux types, resource sites that coders and engineers call upon, et cetera) and a few more Darwin steps especially in the "end game" areas.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow.
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Nina Lowel
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2015.04.01 15:49:11 -
[263] - Quote
Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15542
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Posted - 2015.04.01 15:52:28 -
[264] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:AFK cloaing isn't a way to mess with the intel. It is the only way to mess with it. No matter what ship, fittings or tactics you use you show up in local chat the second you enter or leave the system, it is impossible to avoid. we can only use one tactic and that is to sit in local for days at a time and prey the targets do something stupid like go ratting without an organised defence. Remove AFK cloaking and there is nothing to counter the intel from local. But it's not a counter to local. It doesn't stop local working, it doesn't counter it's ability to detect new players. It uses local as a tool to counter PvE activity, that's all. And no, that's not all you can do. thousands of kills occur every single day without AFK cloakers being involved, so obviously there's other things that work.
People being idiots is not a counter to local. Same way people being idiots was not a counter to remote doomsdays.
AFK cloaking is currently the only way to get around being detected instantly in local and that only works if people chose to not organise a defence.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15542
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Posted - 2015.04.01 15:53:49 -
[265] - Quote
Nina Lowel wrote:Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect?
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Nina Lowel
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2015.04.01 15:56:22 -
[266] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nina Lowel wrote:Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect?
A station can be conquered if you never undock. N3 are realizing this right now.
So again, why should you be able to go inactive in hostile space and expect invincibility? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15543
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Posted - 2015.04.01 15:59:31 -
[267] - Quote
Nina Lowel wrote:baltec1 wrote:Nina Lowel wrote:Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect? A station can be conquered if you never undock. I can force a fight by attempting to take the station. N3 are realizing this right now, are they not? So again, why should you be able to go inactive in hostile space and expect invincibility?
Stations cannot be captured.
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Ito Eto
State War Academy Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2015.04.01 16:01:21 -
[268] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nina Lowel wrote:Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect? Why should people have a 100% accurate, instant, free, no effort, unavoidable intel tool?
Pretty sure you can see them in the station guest list then, and have some idea of where they will be when they undock into your bubble camp.
"Themepark" "Sandbox", these do not mean what you think they mean, EvE is as on rails as a freight train, and has as many attractions as Disneyland, but soundbites are easy, thinking is not.
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Nina Lowel
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2015.04.01 16:01:51 -
[269] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nina Lowel wrote:baltec1 wrote:Nina Lowel wrote:Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect? A station can be conquered if you never undock. I can force a fight by attempting to take the station. N3 are realizing this right now, are they not? So again, why should you be able to go inactive in hostile space and expect invincibility? Stations cannot be captured.
I'm sorry, are you seriously complaining about NPC null, lowsec, and empire stations not being capturable? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15543
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Posted - 2015.04.01 16:05:23 -
[270] - Quote
Nina Lowel wrote:baltec1 wrote:Nina Lowel wrote:baltec1 wrote:Nina Lowel wrote:Why should you be able to go inactive in a hostile system without them being able to find you over time? Why should you be able to dock in a station and heve the exact same effect? A station can be conquered if you never undock. I can force a fight by attempting to take the station. N3 are realizing this right now, are they not? So again, why should you be able to go inactive in hostile space and expect invincibility? Stations cannot be captured. I'm sorry, are you seriously complaining about NPC null, lowsec, and empire stations not being capturable?
No, I am pointing out the stupidity in your argument. I can do the exact same thing as afk cloaking using stations.
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